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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 656883 times)
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develCuy
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July 27, 2017, 09:10:32 PM
 #7001

dont just say you dont agree without substantiating. please tell us why you dont agree.
I explained why in previous posts.

Edit: Main change motivation seems to be lower/limited supply and/or deflation. It doesn't therefore seem logical to convert existing supply (particularly a method with perpetual optionality) and expect a changed outcome.

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what do you mean it wouldnt reward those that contributed 'nothing.' the fact that ppl believed in the project and actually took risk and bought dvc is not doing nothing. all ppl w/ dvc should be rewarded one way another bc they "contributed" by buying the coin!! hello? they are called passive investors. think community, together, in-this-together, inclusive, teamwork, etc. even as i write this im contributing to the betterment of dvc's future.
The past is over. Gone. Those that contributed nothing by definition wouldn't be further rewarded because they have no skin in the game.

I did say "It may not reward holders".

Gentlemen, please focus your energies on what is best for Devcoin as a whole.

There is not a perfect solution, not a perfectly fair one, yet all we want is to fix Devcoin and put it back on track.

I would like see more thoughts from the community regarding converting old to new. Also, if we should keep forking Bitcoin or maybe move away into another i.e: STEEM, Ethereum, ...

Thanks a lot for the insights so far! Please keep going!

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HHWlife
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July 28, 2017, 12:48:14 AM
 #7002

I did say "It may not reward holders".

----we should always reward holders 100%. never abandon ppl who initially supported dvc. they spent money on the coin so if they still have them they should be allowed to swap for new coins if that happens.



 "I would like see more thoughts from the community regarding converting old to new. Also, if we should keep forking Bitcoin or maybe move away into another i.e: STEEM, Ethereum, ...
Thanks a lot for the insights so far! Please keep going!"


-----i like either ethereum or waves. not steem. steem founders mindset is 'me me me first." watch some videos on steem being called scam coin (even tho i disagree, steem is all about enriching the founders way too much).
how about ERC20 tokens on waves platform or ethereum blockchain. we can swap dvc coins for new erc20 tokens. this will make everything easier and simpler.
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July 28, 2017, 11:05:45 AM
 #7003

----we should always reward holders 100%. never abandon ppl who initially supported dvc. they spent money on the coin so if they still have them they should be allowed to swap for new coins if that happens.
100% of what? I don't think there is a fair way way to do it while maintaining apparent aims, but that's what needs defining and justifying.

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July 29, 2017, 02:02:14 AM
 #7004

----we should always reward holders 100%. never abandon ppl who initially supported dvc. they spent money on the coin so if they still have them they should be allowed to swap for new coins if that happens.
100% of what? I don't think there is a fair way way to do it while maintaining apparent aims, but that's what needs defining and justifying.

100% support them. not maybe or maybe not support them. thats what i meant. support them 100%
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July 29, 2017, 07:18:39 AM
 #7005

100% support them. not maybe or maybe not support them. thats what i meant. support them 100%
Ok. I guess you're presupposing that a new coin deletes the old irrespective of wider opinion? I agree that would be a problem.

The rationale for Devcoin was to 'give money to open source developers for their work in as fair a manner as possible'.

This purpose via associated generation/mechanics never lent itself to passive interests. This is now self-evident, even if it wasn't before. Whether that's due to any or all of distribution errors, naivety, greed, quality, concentration, oversupply etc is debateable.

But on your statement - why should you or I be 100% supported for doing basically nothing for X years beyond waiting and hoping? It particularly doesn't make sense to address apparent oversupply (I don't necessarily agree that's the core problem) by incorporating a supply swap.

That's the only aspect I'm referring to. However I don't actually know your opinion on new-coin, and you may be justifying interests in other changes for other reasons. As do I.

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July 29, 2017, 07:40:00 AM
 #7006

I am surprised not to see a devcoin clone yet, without the devoin legacy  Shocked It will come in due time hopefully.
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July 29, 2017, 09:28:05 AM
 #7007

I am surprised not to see a devcoin clone yet, without the devoin legacy  Shocked It will come in due time hopefully.

this is a failed project due to a reason that most of you don`t know about it,they taxed up to 90% to their miners since begining and may be until now if i remember it right
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July 30, 2017, 06:56:43 PM
 #7008

On the subject of who gets what and where the value is held, if a new Devcoin is created I offer this:

It doesn't matter one single bit WHY someone is holding Devcoin or, how they got it, or what they intend to do with it, they should be fairly compensated for their holdings if a new Devcoin is generated and old one losses value do to that.

If I hold a bar of gold, it is still a bar of gold and worth the market price if I choose to use it as a door stop or, place it in a safe deposit box or paint it red and pretend it's brick, it still has the same value and it is still negotiable. Doesn't matter if new gold "bars" are shaped like spheres with little points, my bar still has the same value, once for ounce, as the new one.

I well understand we are not talking about hard assets but, digital ones. Still say old coins for new coins, at fair market, possibly with adjusted quantities if needed, but the coins being held must be honored.


"If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert (banker)  saying it can’t be done." Peter Ustinov
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July 30, 2017, 07:31:41 PM
 #7009

On the subject of who gets what and where the value is held, if a new Devcoin is created I offer this:

It doesn't matter one single bit WHY someone is holding Devcoin or, how they got it, or what they intend to do with it, they should be fairly compensated for their holdings if a new Devcoin is generated and old one losses value do to that.

If I hold a bar of gold, it is still a bar of gold and worth the market price if I choose to use it as a door stop or, place it in a safe deposit box or paint it red and pretend it's brick, it still has the same value and it is still negotiable. Doesn't matter if new gold "bars" are shaped like spheres with little points, my bar still has the same value, once for ounce, as the new one.

I well understand we are not talking about hard assets but, digital ones. Still say old coins for new coins, at fair market, possibly with adjusted quantities if needed, but the coins being held must be honored.


Cryptocurrency is not a gold bar. It even does not exist - you can not "use it as a door stop or, place it in a safe deposit box or paint it red and pretend it's brick".
There are enormous number of cryptos with zero value. Look at any exchange - you can see a lot of cryptos for sale for a minimum possible price (NYC at coingather, for example). All these coins have zero value just from the beginning. If you buy nothing why are you waiting that nothing one day will become something?
Devcoin a bit different - the good idea was in place.
But it ended up the same way as all other "coins".
I have some wallets with millions and millions of all kind of these "shitcoins". Long forgotten ones. I wonder if all these "coins being held" should be honored at all. Dead is dead - end of story.
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July 30, 2017, 08:12:05 PM
 #7010

It doesn't matter one single bit WHY someone is holding Devcoin or, how they got it, or what they intend to do with it, they should be fairly compensated for their holdings if a new Devcoin is generated and old one losses value do to that ... Still say old coins for new coins, at fair market, possibly with adjusted quantities if needed, but the coins being held must be honored.
Putting that into practice conflicts with assertions that coin supply is the problem. Seems that needs settling first.
Otherwise fair compensation for ~zero value is ~zero.

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July 31, 2017, 08:47:42 AM
 #7011

Just a quick question. If DVC is so worthless, why build a coin on top of it? Why not make a new (alt)coin? And when the newDVC becomes worthless what then? A newnewDVC?

The biggest problem I see with DVC is the huge supply and that it got abandoned by the devs. It's still one of the oldest and most known coins, it just got abandoned. That said, I see a huge potential in DVC as it is, but with some minor tweaks (supply, code update, ...).

That's just my personal opinion.

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July 31, 2017, 02:28:21 PM
 #7012

On the subject of who gets what and where the value is held, if a new Devcoin is created I offer this:

It doesn't matter one single bit WHY someone is holding Devcoin or, how they got it, or what they intend to do with it, they should be fairly compensated for their holdings if a new Devcoin is generated and old one losses value do to that.

If I hold a bar of gold, it is still a bar of gold and worth the market price if I choose to use it as a door stop or, place it in a safe deposit box or paint it red and pretend it's brick, it still has the same value and it is still negotiable. Doesn't matter if new gold "bars" are shaped like spheres with little points, my bar still has the same value, once for ounce, as the new one.

I well understand we are not talking about hard assets but, digital ones. Still say old coins for new coins, at fair market, possibly with adjusted quantities if needed, but the coins being held must be honored.


Cryptocurrency is not a gold bar. It even does not exist - you can not "use it as a door stop or, place it in a safe deposit box or paint it red and pretend it's brick".
There are enormous number of cryptos with zero value. Look at any exchange - you can see a lot of cryptos for sale for a minimum possible price (NYC at coingather, for example). All these coins have zero value just from the beginning. If you buy nothing why are you waiting that nothing one day will become something?
Devcoin a bit different - the good idea was in place.
But it ended up the same way as all other "coins".
I have some wallets with millions and millions of all kind of these "shitcoins". Long forgotten ones. I wonder if all these "coins being held" should be honored at all. Dead is dead - end of story.


Ah, yea, you repeated what I said, it was an analogy idiot, ever hear of that? So, what's your point? Dead is not permanent in crypto, nothing is truly dead here. I was around for the birth of this coin and I do not want to see it transformed into something it is not. Better check your "wallets", lots of those old projects are being revived.

PS: Thanks for your contributions to the project, really, no sarcasm intended.

"If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert (banker)  saying it can’t be done." Peter Ustinov
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August 03, 2017, 04:32:49 PM
 #7013

New Devcoin (nDVC) and the Devcoin Renewal Service (DRS)

Thanks everyone for your feedback! We clearly have two options here:

1. Starting anew (airdrop or ICO)
2. Allow to convert old DVC into new DVC (consider old DVC as pre-mined)

Each option has pros and cons, but somebody has to make a decision when there is not general agreement, otherwise we'll never move forward.

My decision is to go for option #2. I know it will take more effort and that some people is holding big amounts of old DVC for doing almost "nothing", but there is an "easy" fix for that: Pump nDVC quite high against old DVC!

Devcoin Renewal Service (DRS) and its Exchange Rate

What is a fair exchange rate for DVC/nDVC? I need help with that! My proposal is 1:1000000 (1 nDVC for every 1,000,000.00 old DVC). Please propose your own exchange rate stating why you consider it fair!

Of course, there should be some boundaries for this, because old DVC will still be generated by old miners. The day nDVC is released, we should also announce the date when DRS will be available and the date when it will shut down, so that no more conversion will be possible.

We have two very important questions here:

1. What is a fair exchange rate for converting DVC to nDVC?
2. For how long should the Devcoin Renewal Service be available? weeks? months? years?

Please give some light to this discussion Cheesy

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August 03, 2017, 05:24:15 PM
 #7014

I'd start from what you want Devcoin to be that it isn't now, and mechanics of how, and work backwards. Not vice versa.
The answer to renew vs not (and relative interests of current vs future holders) will become apparent in the process.

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August 03, 2017, 05:28:22 PM
 #7015

I'd start from what you want Devcoin to be that it isn't now, and mechanics of how, and work backwards. Not vice versa.
The answer to renew vs not (and relative interests of current vs future holders) will become apparent in the process.

Wise words from a wise guy! Smiley

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August 04, 2017, 02:25:48 AM
 #7016

I'd start from what you want Devcoin to be that it isn't now, and mechanics of how, and work backwards. Not vice versa.
The answer to renew vs not (and relative interests of current vs future holders) will become apparent in the process.

This is the crux of the issue. And, don't forget, this forum has a voting system you can take advantage of before making any 1 to 1 million decisions.


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August 04, 2017, 09:48:31 PM
 #7017

Don't screw around with the existing coin. It is still in early days, relative inflation is less each year, if you think it is too high wait a few years.

What would probably be helpful would be to get working open sourceexchange code working so we do not have to keep depending on third party exchanges that are not specifically invested in the merged mined coins, of which DeVCoin is one.

There are plenty of coins people can trade in their DeVCoins for, but without working free open source code we have to do it all manually.

Look at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html if you are unsatisfied with your DeVCoins trade thm for something else. But do not screw with DeVCoin as it is a major part of that whole interwoven ecosystem of currencies and assets.

Also I finally bit the bullet and started trading on the DVC/LTC market, so come dump your DeVCoins for Litecoins if you don't want your DeVCoins.

-MarkM-

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August 05, 2017, 05:35:34 AM
 #7018

New Devcoin (nDVC) and the Devcoin Renewal Service (DRS)

Thanks everyone for your feedback! We clearly have two options here:

1. Starting anew (airdrop or ICO)
2. Allow to convert old DVC into new DVC (consider old DVC as pre-mined)

Each option has pros and cons, but somebody has to make a decision when there is not general agreement, otherwise we'll never move forward.

My decision is to go for option #2. I know it will take more effort and that some people is holding big amounts of old DVC for doing almost "nothing", but there is an "easy" fix for that: Pump nDVC quite high against old DVC!

Devcoin Renewal Service (DRS) and its Exchange Rate

What is a fair exchange rate for DVC/nDVC? I need help with that! My proposal is 1:1000000 (1 nDVC for every 1,000,000.00 old DVC). Please propose your own exchange rate stating why you consider it fair!

Of course, there should be some boundaries for this, because old DVC will still be generated by old miners. The day nDVC is released, we should also announce the date when DRS will be available and the date when it will shut down, so that no more conversion will be possible.

We have two very important questions here:

1. What is a fair exchange rate for converting DVC to nDVC?
2. For how long should the Devcoin Renewal Service be available? weeks? months? years?

Please give some light to this discussion Cheesy

how did you come up with 1mil:1? whats the total supply now? i think 1000:1 seem more realistic. we dont want to reduce the coin too much. i think new total supply should be around 100mil to 1bln. anything more than 10bil. looks like a pump&dump coin(unless we have superstar team working on it) and appears to mainly cater to whales.
i ill say drs should be no longer than one month. this coin has been around over 4yrs. we cant wait forever. lets move fast and ignore naysayers. decentralization means we go democratic and dont heed one or two persons biased argument. just like after many years of debate we finally did the segwit wtnss adoption, lets stop being lazy and start moving.
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August 05, 2017, 05:47:45 AM
 #7019

Don't screw around with the existing coin. It is still in early days, relative inflation is less each year, if you think it is too high wait a few years.

What would probably be helpful would be to get working open sourceexchange code working so we do not have to keep depending on third party exchanges that are not specifically invested in the merged mined coins, of which DeVCoin is one.

There are plenty of coins people can trade in their DeVCoins for, but without working free open source code we have to do it all manually.

Look at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html if you are unsatisfied with your DeVCoins trade thm for something else. But do not screw with DeVCoin as it is a major part of that whole interwoven ecosystem of currencies and assets.

Also I finally bit the bullet and started trading on the DVC/LTC market, so come dump your DeVCoins for Litecoins if you don't want your DeVCoins.

-MarkM-


are you a dev for this coin? it appears that this coin is almost dead and you dont want ppl to improve on it? the historical chart shows dvc was nothing more than a pump and dump coin. since the last dump its been inactive for over 4 yrs and you dont want ppll to do anything to it? cmon buddy wake up!
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August 05, 2017, 12:44:35 PM
 #7020

Yeah I helped Unthinkingbit create this coin, and I still run the receivers script for him each cycle creating the receiver and account files that he then sends out to the other custodians.

If you want a new different coin create one whether you clone this or something else entirely.
lThere is huge amount of work in on this one, a lot of infrastructure has been put onto the HORIZON network in last year for example though HORIZON now itself is not on exchanges so BURST is back in the running and we are looking into the STELLAR networktoo now that so many folks have been given LUMENs lately.

DeVCoin is just one of the original merged mined coins, I mined them all using p2pool until the Swedish Neptune miners I got turned out to be too powerful for that pool, then with mmpool until they ran afoul of some technical glitch caused by some new update of bitcoin.

DeVCoin, IXCoin and I0Coin are still on exchanges and DeVCoin has still not gone down to one Lite-satishi nor one DOGE-satoshi so it is far from dead.

-MarkM-

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