[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[markm]

I think momentum got involved, people see it listed as one of the fastest rising coins on the sites that show market caps and such, so more people flood in.

How does the Vircurex buy price compare to the buy side on other exchanges now, we have the buy side filled up through 35 satoshis now on Vircurex.

-MarkM-

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[Vlad2Vlad]

100 Bitcoins volume on Vircurex and over 40 BTC on Cryptsy.

This is getting heavy.

[weisoq]

Cryptsy's better than it was, orderbook's not as consistent as vircurex - 100btc gone through there today. Bid volume between the two is around level pre-vircurex problems.

[sidhujag]

100 Bitcoins volume on Vircurex and over 40 BTC on Cryptsy.

This is getting heavy.

Yea I saw that.. I guess its not a glitch.. someone posted their stash at the low price and the whale bought it up.

[Habeler876]

100 Bitcoins volume on Vircurex and over 40 BTC on Cryptsy.

This is getting heavy.

Yea I saw that.. I guess its not a glitch.. someone posted their stash at the low price and the whale bought it up.

Seems to have died down. Thought we were gonna see a massive pump. I suppose we still might, but I worry that it was just one whale who screwed himself here...

[Hunterbunter]

Out of curiosity, does anyone still use the vircurex shotgun bot?

https://github.com/hunterbunter/vircurex-python-shotgunbot

Worth doing a git-pull if you do, I think I made some minor bug fixes the last couple of months, too. I was a bit disappointed vircurex went down in volume the last few months, but the bot has paid off well the last couple of days. Every day (if there's been some action) I just clear all my orders and put a new 1-150 satoshi trade, it works well in a volatile spiky market.

If you do use it for the first time, remember to run the bot in quiet times, when the price has stabilized, for best effect.

[Vlad2Vlad]

100 Bitcoins volume on Vircurex and over 40 BTC on Cryptsy.

This is getting heavy.

Yea I saw that.. I guess its not a glitch.. someone posted their stash at the low price and the whale bought it up.

Seems to have died down. Thought we were gonna see a massive pump. I suppose we still might, but I worry that it was just one whale who screwed himself here...

Whales screw themselves on maybe a few trades here and there, not for 2 days straight and on massive volume and orders.

Whoever it is they have a reason for buying up so much Devcoin.

[Hunterbunter]

100 Bitcoins volume on Vircurex and over 40 BTC on Cryptsy.

This is getting heavy.

Yea I saw that.. I guess its not a glitch.. someone posted their stash at the low price and the whale bought it up.

Seems to have died down. Thought we were gonna see a massive pump. I suppose we still might, but I worry that it was just one whale who screwed himself here...

Whales screw themselves on maybe a few trades here and there, not for 2 days straight and on massive volume and orders.

Whoever it is they have a reason for buying up so much Devcoin.

Yeah...dvc is 3-4 times the btc volume of the other coins also traded yesterday, so there's something particular about it.

dvc could always be attractive due to its bargain basement price and potential for multiplying xxx fold. I don't see anything fundamental about this move, though, so I'd be cautious of a pump and dump. There hasn't been any particularly good news the last few days has there?

[Arbitrageur]

Cloakcoin, severly undervalued, NEW type of anonymity. PoSA! Exchange in wallet. Tor in Wallet! Crazy value,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=637704.4420

no way, let me run and grab a few before too late.

[markm]

Remember way back when CDN, GMC, GRF, MBC, NKL, UKB, UNS and such were skyrocketing so much that there were concerns that debts denominated in such units might never be able to be paid off, so that there was a big move to denominating debts in DeVCoins (DVC) instead because DVC seemed much less prone to endless skyrocketing of price?

Take a look at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/plotdvc.html now... Those previously skyrocketing currencies have been dropping steadily, down below the lows recorded since those tables and plots started being accumulated. Maybe that large scale movement could have something to do with it?

-MarkM-

[Whoisthelorax]

MarkM,

I must admit i need to gather the pieces of my scattered brain off the floor when you describe how devcoin is being utilized on online gaming. It blows my mind. I also admit i dont completely understand what you are saying, and thus i dont actually subscribe to something i dont understand. But nonetheless, its a tantalyzing possibility.

I think if your hypothesis is in any way on the mark (hehe), it means big things for devcoiners...just not necessarily in the way they expected it might.

Just how devcoinauctions.com is proving that real businesses can be completely built around devcoin, it could also be that virtual businesses in a virtual world could also peg themselves to devcoin. Perhaps devcoin will be the currency of choice for virtual game developers who wish to support a currency that values open source creation. Nobody really saw that coming...but it could be a big source of interest.

[Whoisthelorax]

Vircurex is probably the best exchange to sit your bitcoins on...

-

Huh? How could vircurex be a good place to park bitcoins? That whole episode earlier this year was not confidence inspiring, to say the least.

[georgem]

Vircurex is probably the best exchange to sit your bitcoins on...

-

Huh? How could vircurex be a good place to park bitcoins? That whole episode earlier this year was not confidence inspiring, to say the least.

That's what I was thinking too... I am not gonna put any currency into this exchange ever again.

I don't know the previous history about the connections between vircurex and a few devcoiners here, but some are clearly biased or atleast affiliated towards this exchange.

But for me vircurex is an absolute no-go.

[Cor2]

Vircurex is probably the best exchange to sit your bitcoins on...

Huh? How could vircurex be a good place to park bitcoins? That whole episode earlier this year was not confidence inspiring, to say the least.

That's what I was thinking too... I am not gonna put any currency into this exchange ever again.
I don't know the previous history about the connections between vircurex and a few devcoiners here, but some are clearly biased or atleast affiliated towards this exchange.
But for me vircurex is an absolute no-go.

I *do* consider Vircurex one of the best exchanges around and it is a shame that there was a vulnerability (preparing multiple withdrawals in parallel and then releasing all of them at the same time) and I think such a breach won't happen again (once bitten, twice shy) but I admire the owner for sticking around and making a serious effort to pay back all that was lost. I have no affiliation or benefit from Vircurex, in fact I have frozen BTC and LTC sitting at Vircurex that some day will be un-frozen. I knew in advance that any deposit there could end up frozen and I decided that this was a risk I was willing to take. The rallies there in the past days will only help to regain trust and speed up paying back those frozen funds. I was quite unhappy that trading was so low in the past months, since Vircurex has always been the best exchange around and very open to the community as well as ready to take input from the community.
I have been forced to use Cryptsy for a lot of my trading and that has worked well too, but occasionally they have extreme delays.
I have a theory about the crazy rallies and why they only happen on Vircurex. My theory is that the thief of the funds (or someone related) is having remorse and in a strange way is paying back the funds by giving way-above-market prices for common traded coins, such as DVC. That, or there is some money-laundering going on. Strange it is...
And no, I do not have any problem with money sitting on Vircurex. Of course, I have not all my cryptos in one place, but having several BTC in coins on Vircurex sounds like a safe place to me. YMMV.

[georgem]

I *do* consider Vircurex one of the best exchanges around and it is a shame that there was a vulnerability (preparing multiple withdrawals in parallel and then releasing all of them at the same time) and I think such a breach won't happen again (once bitten, twice shy) but I admire the owner for sticking around and making a serious effort to pay back all that was lost. I have no affiliation or benefit from Vircurex, in fact I have frozen BTC and LTC sitting at Vircurex that some day will be un-frozen. I knew in advance that any deposit there could end up frozen and I decided that this was a risk I was willing to take. The rallies there in the past days will only help to regain trust and speed up paying back those frozen funds. I was quite unhappy that trading was so low in the past months, since Vircurex has always been the best exchange around and very open to the community as well as ready to take input from the community.
I have been forced to use Cryptsy for a lot of my trading and that has worked well too, but occasionally they have extreme delays.
I have a theory about the crazy rallies and why they only happen on Vircurex. My theory is that the thief of the funds (or someone related) is having remorse and in a strange way is paying back the funds by giving way-above-market prices for common traded coins, such as DVC. That, or there is some money-laundering going on. Strange it is...
And no, I do not have any problem with money sitting on Vircurex. Of course, I have not all my cryptos in one place, but having several BTC in coins on Vircurex sounds like a safe place to me. YMMV.

Either way, the best place to park bitcoins is ofcourse a higly encrypted offline wallet locked away in some safe. NOT an exchange.

The problem with vircurex is that it basically tries to lure in new traders with such rallies (and interest payments, etc), so that those new traders money can be used to pay off all the frozen amounts...

I dont like that. It's like they try to solve their problems on the back of other people, not by themselves.

Don't they have any reserves? Any of their own money they can put on line?

[georgem]

I have been forced to use Cryptsy for a lot of my trading and that has worked well too, but occasionally they have extreme delays.

How exactly did they *force you* to use Cryptsy?

I don't get it. I used about half a dozen exchanges by now, and never did I feel coerced to use the one or the other...

For me it's just a perfect free market. Bad players should be punished, lose their customers and give up their market share.

Good players on the other hand should get more traffic and volume, that's only fair.

Let the people decide, there is really no force and coercion in the crypto exchange business as far as I can see.

"Trust has to be earned" comes to mind.... also "Buyers beware"...

And my "Buyers beware" alarm goes off very loud when I hear vircurex and "good place to keep your bitcoins" in the same sentence.

[Cor2]

Either way, the best place to park bitcoins is ofcourse a higly encrypted offline wallet locked away in some safe. NOT an exchange.

Of course - no place like an offline wallet to be unhackable as long as there is no physical access. But trading from an offline wallet is kinda difficult and transferring BTC or DVC often takes 1-2 hours before conformation, so if you want to react fast or (what I often find) you set
up a certain trade at a certain threshold and that needs some patience - sometimes weeks later it will get hit, while you are asleep, so you find a nice trade that happened when you log in the next morning - that requires that you have your coins online - no choice.

The problem with vircurex is that it basically tries to lure in new traders with such rallies, so that those new traders money can be used to pay off all the frozen amounts...
I dont like that. It's like they try to solve their problems on the back of other people, not by themselves.

I think you are mistaken or I am misunderstanding what you say. Vircurex cannot "lure" with rallies since they have nothing to do with who is or is not offering or buying coins - they only provide the trading platform.
The other thing that seems that you do not understand how an exchange works: it cannot take someone's money and give it to another.
In fact, every exchange should have at least as much coins as there are orders and balances on the exchange, in other words it must be fully solvent, you cannot remove money from one person and still be a balanced exchange. That was exactly the problem when someone stole from Vircurex - people heard it and started withdrawing money (run at the bank) and it became obvious that Vircurex was no longer solvent after the breach.
The way that Vircurex is paying back is that the owner is using his *profits* (the fees that you pay to trade and withdraw) to pay back every month. I find that very courageous and I want to honour the owner for paying back from his own income.
I hope that this clears up your misconceptions.

[georgem]

I think you are mistaken or I am misunderstanding what you say. Vircurex cannot "lure" with rallies since they have nothing to do with who is or is not offering or buying coins - they only provide the trading platform.
The other thing that seems that you do not understand how an exchange works: it cannot take someone's money and give it to another.
In fact, every exchange should have at least as much coins as there are orders and balances on the exchange, in other words it must be fully solvent, you cannot remove money from one person and still be a balanced exchange. That was exactly the problem when someone stole from Vircurex - people heard it and started withdrawing money (run at the bank) and it became obvious that Vircurex was no longer solvent after the breach.
The way that Vircurex is paying back is that the owner is using his *profits* (the fees that you pay to trade and withdraw) to pay back every month. I find that very courageous and I want to honour the owner for paying back from his own income.
I hope that this clears up your misconceptions.

Yes, ofcourse I understand their payback plan. But it's very curious that you call that courageous.
Isn't it basic decency to pay back what you owe? How is this courageous?  

What I meant to say is, that they should STOP making business as an exchange until they have solved all problems and payed everyone back.

Only THEN they can try a relaunch or comeback (complete with rebranding I suggest).

That would be the really courageous thing to do. Not making a sinking ship look like new, that is a little bit manipulative if you ask me.
Or is that what you meant with "courageous" ? To keep on using an unsave ship, risking the money of new traders?

Where is the responsibility in this?
To continue acting irresponsible shouldn't be considered "courageous"... it should be considered dangerous.

[markm]

I don't mean a place to keep your savings, I mean a place to pile your buy side depth if you are trying to uphold the value of a coin by ensuring it always has depth.

Of course I would prefer to have them all on my own exchange, but if I must have them on someone else's then I prefer Vircurex because their payment system means I can afford to have offers in place that I don't expect anyone to ever actually take me up on. I can afford to have them there "just in case" and in order to have offers at every possible number of satoshis of price because the bitcoins earn while they sit there providing depth.

Also obvious of course is to try to only use "profit coins", as soon as possible, that is, get your initial capital back to your own wallet as soon as possible, plus some profits too, so that the only coins you have on any third party site are "pure profit" coins the site already earned you.

I left my coins on Vircurex knowing the freeze was coming because I figured it would be nastily ironic to evacuate them to some scam exchange and have them stolen. What I left was leftover profit after taking take-home profit, and I figured if they do get stolen its maybe better to let Vircurex, who made/earned them for me in the first place, steal them than ship them off to some other thief. Almost all other exchanges were obviously scammers, their entire exchanges existed purely for the purpose of perpetuating endless numbers of scam of the day scamcoin scams, they were all about proliferating as many scams per day as possible, jumping on as many new scams as possible, anyone whose entire business is based on profiting from scams it seems stupid to imagine is not planning to scam you so I avoid them.

The thing I like least about Vircurex actually is they seemed to get so desperate they started to jump on scams too, I think for example if supporting DOGE was at all justifiable the same facts that justify accepting DOGE ought to have caused them to drop the scrypt coins that had even less hashing power than DOGE, since the main thing DOGE did for the world was prove how patheticaly weak even litecoin's hashpower was, making it clear that even litecoin, and certainly all the crappy scrypt coins with even less hashpower than litecoin, are ridiculously insecure.

I wish they would add GRouPcoin though, since it has quite a bit of hashpower and would help make Vircurex the place to go for dealing in merged mined coins.

-MarkM-

[Cor2]

I have been forced to use Cryptsy for a lot of my trading and that has worked well too, but occasionally they have extreme delays.

How exactly did they *force you* to use Cryptsy?
I don't get it. I used about half a dozen exchanges by now, and never did I feel coerced to use the one or the other...
For me it's just a perfect free market. Bad players should be punished, lose their customers and give up their market share.
Good players on the other hand should get more traffic and volume, that's only fair.
Let the people decide, there is really no force and coercion in the crypto exchange business as far as I can see.
"Trust has to be earned" comes to mind.... also "Buyers beware"...
And my "Buyers beware" alarm goes off very loud when I hear vircurex and "good place to keep your bitcoins" in the same sentence.

Of course trust has to be earned and can easily be lost. Vircurex has openly communicated about their issues and designed a way that
their customers would eventually receive their money back, even if that meant that the owner has to subsidize his exchange for the costs of running it and not get any income from it, because he sees it as a matter of honour to do all he can to return the money that his customers lost in a breach of his exchange. I find that worthy and trust-inspiring, whereas other exchanges have issues that are never
reported and they disappear, leaving their customers with nothing. So, we apparently have a different view on things - I reward openness and accountability, as well as the attempts to repay what was lost.
I too have used more than half a dozen different exchanges. I have been heavily involved with ORB. Tell me which exchanges other than Cryptsy actively trade in ORB? Then DVC, there are only a few. MCXnow has no trades eventhough DVC is listed. So it is Vircurex of Cryptsy and there is a little activity on Crypto-Trade as well, but the main player with volume was Cryptsy. "Forced" was maybe too strong a word, but there was little choice and Cryptsy worked - worked well in most cases. I still like Vircurex and I wish Kumala the best. I am also very happy that whoever it is has chosen Vircurex to run these rallys. They can use the traffic and the exchange works beautifully, so I hope that more people overcome their fears and find their way back.
You can have your "buyer beware" alarm, just know that it is based on a single event a long time ago and it has been fixed, so your alarm would be eqaully justified to go off with any other exchange, unless you have inside info about vulnerabilities of certain exchanges?