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Author Topic: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts  (Read 119659 times)
XxXBigDickXxX
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April 23, 2018, 09:24:24 AM
 #2681

Guys and ladies, cant move my coins to stocks.exchange, in wallet it's show message checksum failed, what's wrong?Huh?  And how to insert stocks.exchange adress to wallet, or it's impossible and need do it char by char?  And maybe stocks.exchange gives me invalid Dero adress  stocks.exchange dERimZr1Af9CjQCCUTZQakNLqgDPQCnMfUdTH5fLWoBAg3JnU79jNkFarUVGqwJc6R5NW2qLE5iuocm SHgQWgHop47bTGQ9i61T8KhNy3hSux  
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MagicSmoker
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April 23, 2018, 11:06:17 AM
 #2682

Anyone who claims ASICS kill coins are out of their mind.

Look at bitcoin, the first ASIC PoW coin... Still going strong.

What happened to bitcoin isn't applicable for a number of reasons. Firstly, we don't know the counterfactual; i.e. - what would have happened to BTC had ASICs not been developed for it. Secondly, BTC was the *only* cryptocurrency when ASICs became available, so there was nowhere else for GPU and CPU miners to go. Thirdly, ASICs were adopted very slowly for BTC because its price was quite low and no one knew if it would really ever take off. Plenty believed it would, sure, but it's not like recent history where price went to nearly $20k US and dragged almost every other crypto with it, so now it is more or less known that crypto can be successful. Fourthly, the even more recent crash in crypto prices shows that prices can, indeed, do just that: crash. Since ASICs tend to be very expensive, especially the first batch, those that buy them have a very strong incentive to dump their coins as fast as they mine them to try to recoup the cost, and for a small market cap coin like DERO that can push the price down so far the coin loses all momentum, especially since GPU/CPU miners have been all but pushed out by the ASICs.

Granted, DERO is holding up rather well in the face of the ASIC invasion, but I, and many other long time miners, stopped mining it completely, and if the recent positive price action reverses and DERO trades to new lows because of relentless selling pressure I suspect that many of us once staunch supporters will lose interest and drift off to other projects.


ASICs make any network safer at a higher cost efficiency. The fact that the companies that make them are unethical by selling them only after mining them for 3-6 months has nothing to do with ASICS, it has to do with those people. So instead of going after ASICs, which are only great, go after the companies that are doing unethical business.

The cryptonight ASICs (or many of them) were sold at discounts recently, this makes it highly likely that the hashpower coming from them is rather distributed

These points I mostly agree with, and have argued such before - ASICs can be a very good thing if for no other reason than they are usually much more energy efficient, it's just that the manufacturers are a bunch of sleazebags that are all but untouchable because they are located in countries where, shall we say, the rule of law is not paramount.

CryptoTrout
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April 23, 2018, 01:07:06 PM
 #2683

Why  hasn't the price gone down?

Because, Dero will be listed in Coinmarketcap.  Grin Grin
p/s: i have just seen Volume 24h is ~100k$

lol
Mezze
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April 23, 2018, 01:08:32 PM
 #2684

Amazing promotion post about dero. But i not found any difference from prev page

We try to keep it visible at the top of each page  Smiley
Volume 100k, cmc

We applied!

Any idea when they'll add Dero?
XxXBigDickXxX
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April 23, 2018, 01:20:59 PM
 #2685

So, how can i move my coins to stock ?? How to copy stock.exchange wallet adress and make transaction? And what does it mean @checksum failed@ Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh
fellestreum
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April 23, 2018, 01:43:32 PM
 #2686

Anyone who claims ASICS kill coins are out of their mind.

Look at bitcoin, the first ASIC PoW coin... Still going strong.

What happened to bitcoin isn't applicable for a number of reasons. Firstly, we don't know the counterfactual; i.e. - what would have happened to BTC had ASICs not been developed for it. Secondly, BTC was the *only* cryptocurrency when ASICs became available, so there was nowhere else for GPU and CPU miners to go. Thirdly, ASICs were adopted very slowly for BTC because its price was quite low and no one knew if it would really ever take off. Plenty believed it would, sure, but it's not like recent history where price went to nearly $20k US and dragged almost every other crypto with it, so now it is more or less known that crypto can be successful. Fourthly, the even more recent crash in crypto prices shows that prices can, indeed, do just that: crash. Since ASICs tend to be very expensive, especially the first batch, those that buy them have a very strong incentive to dump their coins as fast as they mine them to try to recoup the cost, and for a small market cap coin like DERO that can push the price down so far the coin loses all momentum, especially since GPU/CPU miners have been all but pushed out by the ASICs.

Granted, DERO is holding up rather well in the face of the ASIC invasion, but I, and many other long time miners, stopped mining it completely, and if the recent positive price action reverses and DERO trades to new lows because of relentless selling pressure I suspect that many of us once staunch supporters will lose interest and drift off to other projects.

ASICs make any network safer at a higher cost efficiency. The fact that the companies that make them are unethical by selling them only after mining them for 3-6 months has nothing to do with ASICS, it has to do with those people. So instead of going after ASICs, which are only great, go after the companies that are doing unethical business.

The cryptonight ASICs (or many of them) were sold at discounts recently, this makes it highly likely that the hashpower coming from them is rather distributed

These points I mostly agree with, and have argued such before - ASICs can be a very good thing if for no other reason than they are usually much more energy efficient, it's just that the manufacturers are a bunch of sleazebags that are all but untouchable because they are located in countries where, shall we say, the rule of law is not paramount.

It would certainly be quite an interesting counterfactual world where bitcoin had been ASIC resistant from the start.  For one thing the energy consumption of the bitcoin network would be even greater, by an order of magnitude probably, than it is now.  Either that or it wouldn't have scaled up as much.  It might have ASICs to thank for that.

Does the fact the majority of ASICS are probably not being used to mine a specific Cryptonight coin, but are instead being rented out on nicehash, change the reasoning here at all?

And - on a different but related note - is anyone worried about the future of Dero vis-a-vis the fact that it is a POW coin?  The developers of Cardano and other "generation 3.0" coins, and for that matter the developers at Ethereum, seem to think the future is with POS.  If Dero scales up isn't the network energy consumption going to end up being a problem?
b9ron
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April 23, 2018, 01:48:04 PM
 #2687

So, how can i move my coins to stock ?? How to copy stock.exchange wallet adress and make transaction? And what does it mean @checksum failed@ Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

Just use the right mouse button.
Atomicc
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April 23, 2018, 02:07:36 PM
 #2688

Anyone who claims ASICS kill coins are out of their mind.

Look at bitcoin, the first ASIC PoW coin... Still going strong.

ASICs make any network safer at a higher cost efficiency. The fact that the companies that make them are unethical by selling them only after mining them for 3-6 months has nothing to do with ASICS, it has to do with those people. So instead of going after ASICs, which are only great, go after the companies that are doing unethical business.

The cryptonight ASICs (or many of them) were sold at discounts recently, this makes it highly likely that the hashpower coming from them is rather distributed

Strong words...it is not so clever to use it in this case, and describe almost half of altcoin forum members as "out of their mind".
Maybe You do not see the whole picture, but only the fragments...
Comparision to BTC is impossible. Compare the network size. Do You know how big BTC network was prior of ASICs? ASICs kill decentralization, the basics of crypto movement. With ASICs the whole network was owned by few miners (solo). There is a big possibility of attacks and manipulations (51%) what is definitely not good for any coin.
Do not forget that GPU miners are "low cost marketing" for any coin developers, and support the coins in their early days, when it is most needed.
Regarding ASIC producers You are completely right, unfair business model. But, lot of users realize that, and avoid ASICs with such impossible ROI period. Specialy for altcoins.

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MagicSmoker
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April 23, 2018, 03:42:43 PM
Last edit: April 23, 2018, 03:57:40 PM by MagicSmoker
 #2689

It would certainly be quite an interesting counterfactual world where bitcoin had been ASIC resistant from the start.  For one thing the energy consumption of the bitcoin network would be even greater, by an order of magnitude probably, than it is now.  Either that or it wouldn't have scaled up as much.  It might have ASICs to thank for that.

One theory is that people deploy mining capacity until they reach the practical limit of the power available, so ASICs didn't really reduce the amount of power used to mine BTC, they just massively increased the difficulty (ie - it takes far more computational effort to solve each block, so, net-net, no real power is saved).

Does the fact the majority of ASICS are probably not being used to mine a specific Cryptonight coin, but are instead being rented out on nicehash, change the reasoning here at all?

I'm not really sure about the effect NH has, to be honest. Those that rent hashrate are effectively trading BTC to mine a specific coin, and presumably intend to hold said coin for some period. Those that rent out their hashrate are getting paid in BTC to provide their hardware to the NH marketplace so I suspect the net effect is a total wash.

And - on a different but related note - is anyone worried about the future of Dero vis-a-vis the fact that it is a POW coin?

I am holding a modest position in 2 PoS coins mostly as an experiment (ie - not because I have any particular love for either project), and after a few months of doing so I have found I am deeply reluctant to sell either of them, because I feel like I have to wait until I receive a block reward from staking to justify the time spent. I understand this is not entirely rational, but that's partly why I am doing the experiment, to see how I feel about PoS in general. Consequently, I would say that PoS is not appropriate for a coin intended for transactional purposes (rather than purely contractual, say) unless the effective annual interest rate is in the range of what fiat currency banks pay for a savings account or CD, because otherwise it appears to have a chilling effect on actually using the coin. At least it does for me.

Speedie
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April 23, 2018, 04:04:16 PM
 #2690

I am holding a modest position in 2 PoS coins mostly as an experiment (ie - not because I have any particular love for either project), and after a few months of doing so I have found I am deeply reluctant to sell either of them, because I feel like I have to wait until I receive a block reward from staking to justify the time spent. I understand this is not entirely rational, but that's partly why I am doing the experiment, to see how I feel about PoS in general. Consequently, I would say that PoS is not appropriate for a coin intended for transactional purposes (rather than purely contractual, say) unless the effective annual interest rate is in the range of what fiat currency banks pay for a savings account or CD, because otherwise it appears to have a chilling effect on actually using the coin. At least it does for me.

Correct. PoS in my opinion encourages hoarding of the coins rather than distribution, whether by outright sale on an exchange or in transactions for goods. It's part of the reason that raising interest rates generally cools down inflation (or at least so the Fed thinks). It encourages saving rather than spending.

krypt0id
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April 23, 2018, 04:58:07 PM
 #2691

I am holding a modest position in 2 PoS coins mostly as an experiment (ie - not because I have any particular love for either project), and after a few months of doing so I have found I am deeply reluctant to sell either of them, because I feel like I have to wait until I receive a block reward from staking to justify the time spent. I understand this is not entirely rational, but that's partly why I am doing the experiment, to see how I feel about PoS in general. Consequently, I would say that PoS is not appropriate for a coin intended for transactional purposes (rather than purely contractual, say) unless the effective annual interest rate is in the range of what fiat currency banks pay for a savings account or CD, because otherwise it appears to have a chilling effect on actually using the coin. At least it does for me.

Correct. PoS in my opinion encourages hoarding of the coins rather than distribution, whether by outright sale on an exchange or in transactions for goods. It's part of the reason that raising interest rates generally cools down inflation (or at least so the Fed thinks). It encourages saving rather than spending.




Actually it's to slow down velocity of circulating supply (kind of like PoS). It's kind of used to hide inflation that has happened already, not really lower it. It's really just semantics at this point but I wanted to feel like I was part of the conversation.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
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April 23, 2018, 05:23:13 PM
 #2692

Correct. PoS in my opinion encourages hoarding of the coins rather than distribution, whether by outright sale on an exchange or in transactions for goods. It's part of the reason that raising interest rates generally cools down inflation (or at least so the Fed thinks). It encourages saving rather than spending.



Actually it's to slow down velocity of circulating supply (kind of like PoS). It's kind of used to hide inflation that has happened already, not really lower it. It's really just semantics at this point but I wanted to feel like I was part of the conversation.

M2, IIRC... but it's been a loooong time since I took an economics class.

In other news, that's a helluva spike in price for DERO today. And not to give out any financial advice, but I sold a fraction of the 300 coins I bought a few days ago so the remainder effectively cost me nothing to acquire. I have to admit I am a bit puzzled at the extreme strength today, despite there not being any notable news (except the Atlantis announcement, but that was a couple days ago) and the massive increase in network hashrate (I saw 132MH/s at one point today!?!). My theory that ASIC miners dump their coins as fast as they mine them seems to be suffering from a reality that does not agree.
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April 23, 2018, 05:26:01 PM
 #2693

Correct. PoS in my opinion encourages hoarding of the coins rather than distribution, whether by outright sale on an exchange or in transactions for goods. It's part of the reason that raising interest rates generally cools down inflation (or at least so the Fed thinks). It encourages saving rather than spending.



Actually it's to slow down velocity of circulating supply (kind of like PoS). It's kind of used to hide inflation that has happened already, not really lower it. It's really just semantics at this point but I wanted to feel like I was part of the conversation.

M2, IIRC... but it's been a loooong time since I took an economics class.

In other news, that's a helluva spike in price for DERO today. And not to give out any financial advice, but I sold a fraction of the 300 coins I bought a few days ago so the remainder effectively cost me nothing to acquire. I have to admit I am a bit puzzled at the extreme strength today, despite there not being any notable news (except the Atlantis announcement, but that was a couple days ago) and the massive increase in network hashrate (I saw 132MH/s at one point today!?!). My theory that ASIC miners dump their coins as fast as they mine them seems to be suffering from a reality that does not agree.

That seems pretty accurate. The atlantis news would have taken a while to catch on though and the ASICs probably panic sold a bunch trying to get the top. I think this is Atlantis related and some new groups are aware now not to mention the fact that coinmarketcap is coming soon.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
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April 23, 2018, 05:29:40 PM
 #2694

Perhaps news got out that it's now possible to withdraw them more than 20 at a time if you buy a bunch LOL. I'm assuming it's part Atlantis, part Alts in general doing well, and part GPU / CPU miners essentially being shut out from mining and dumping. Though it does seem odd that ASIC miners who are, presumably, desperate to cover the cost of their purchases aren't dumping into the strength.

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April 23, 2018, 06:10:06 PM
 #2695

Perhaps news got out that it's now possible to withdraw them more than 20 at a time if you buy a bunch LOL. I'm assuming it's part Atlantis, part Alts in general doing well, and part GPU / CPU miners essentially being shut out from mining and dumping. Though it does seem odd that ASIC miners who are, presumably, desperate to cover the cost of their purchases aren't dumping into the strength.

My theory is that the ASIC miners don't mine Dero directly.  They sell their hashpower on nicehash to the highest bidder (what else would explain the large amount of Cryptonight hashpower still for sale on nicehash) and thereby earn bitcoin directly and immediately, which is what they really want, and without dumping on any market.  They are therefore pretty insensitive to price spikes on individual coins like Dero.  The price spike seems entirely independent, probably due to the reasons already mentioned.
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April 23, 2018, 08:58:42 PM
 #2696

Perhaps news got out that it's now possible to withdraw them more than 20 at a time if you buy a bunch LOL. I'm assuming it's part Atlantis, part Alts in general doing well, and part GPU / CPU miners essentially being shut out from mining and dumping. Though it does seem odd that ASIC miners who are, presumably, desperate to cover the cost of their purchases aren't dumping into the strength.

My theory is that the ASIC miners don't mine Dero directly.  They sell their hashpower on nicehash to the highest bidder (what else would explain the large amount of Cryptonight hashpower still for sale on nicehash) and thereby earn bitcoin directly and immediately, which is what they really want, and without dumping on any market.  They are therefore pretty insensitive to price spikes on individual coins like Dero.  The price spike seems entirely independent, probably due to the reasons already mentioned.

Seems as plausible as any other possibility. 2BTC buy wall at 25,000 Sats now. And I was griping about buying at 6,000 Sats late last week.



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April 23, 2018, 09:09:06 PM
 #2697

Perhaps news got out that it's now possible to withdraw them more than 20 at a time if you buy a bunch LOL. I'm assuming it's part Atlantis, part Alts in general doing well, and part GPU / CPU miners essentially being shut out from mining and dumping. Though it does seem odd that ASIC miners who are, presumably, desperate to cover the cost of their purchases aren't dumping into the strength.

My theory is that the ASIC miners don't mine Dero directly.  They sell their hashpower on nicehash to the highest bidder (what else would explain the large amount of Cryptonight hashpower still for sale on nicehash) and thereby earn bitcoin directly and immediately, which is what they really want, and without dumping on any market.  They are therefore pretty insensitive to price spikes on individual coins like Dero.  The price spike seems entirely independent, probably due to the reasons already mentioned.

Seems as plausible as any other possibility. 2BTC buy wall at 25,000 Sats now. And I was griping about buying at 6,000 Sats late last week.





Isn't that always how it goes? Well, at least you were buying.

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April 23, 2018, 09:26:45 PM
 #2698

My theory is that the ASIC miners don't mine Dero directly.  They sell their hashpower on nicehash to the highest bidder (what else would explain the large amount of Cryptonight hashpower still for sale on nicehash) and thereby earn bitcoin directly and immediately, which is what they really want, and without dumping on any market.  They are therefore pretty insensitive to price spikes on individual coins like Dero.  The price spike seems entirely independent, probably due to the reasons already mentioned.

Seems as plausible as any other possibility. 2BTC buy wall at 25,000 Sats now. And I was griping about buying at 6,000 Sats late last week.

Just 2-3 weeks ago the Atlantis announcement might have staunched the bleeding for a few hours, the market was in such a funk; now it's good for a 6-bagger, to use the old Peter Lynch terminology.

My purchase of 300 DERO at 4800 Sats was supposed to be the first of several increasingly large purchases to be made over the next couple of weeks because I fully expected price to trend downward from the ASICs; instead it looks like I bought at or near the bottom!

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April 23, 2018, 10:00:57 PM
 #2699

My theory is that the ASIC miners don't mine Dero directly.  They sell their hashpower on nicehash to the highest bidder (what else would explain the large amount of Cryptonight hashpower still for sale on nicehash) and thereby earn bitcoin directly and immediately, which is what they really want, and without dumping on any market.  They are therefore pretty insensitive to price spikes on individual coins like Dero.  The price spike seems entirely independent, probably due to the reasons already mentioned.

Seems as plausible as any other possibility. 2BTC buy wall at 25,000 Sats now. And I was griping about buying at 6,000 Sats late last week.

Just 2-3 weeks ago the Atlantis announcement might have staunched the bleeding for a few hours, the market was in such a funk; now it's good for a 6-bagger, to use the old Peter Lynch terminology.

My purchase of 300 DERO at 4800 Sats was supposed to be the first of several increasingly large purchases to be made over the next couple of weeks because I fully expected price to trend downward from the ASICs; instead it looks like I bought at or near the bottom!



lucky you
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April 23, 2018, 10:07:15 PM
 #2700

I'm happy to say that Dero should be listed on Coinmarketcap in the next 24 hours!
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