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Author Topic: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts  (Read 119676 times)
MagicSmoker
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June 26, 2018, 11:11:36 PM
 #3461

You're right in that nothing lasts forever. That was a poor choice of words on my part. However, the most likely scenario I see occurring is that CN ASICs fail at a gradual rate and so there will be a long period of time where hashrate becomes more concentrated among fewer machines - perhaps entirely on a Bitmain pool, which would be even worse - yet is still too high (relative to DERO's price) to make mining it with a GPU worthwhile, much less attractive.

Even if that interval only lasts a few months it will be a serious vulnerability for the network, and that was more or less what I imagined happening when I made my earlier post.
 

On a theoretical level, I see your point. I'm just not sure how likely that scenario is. It does make sense in that regard I just don't see it as probable, personally.

Perhaps, but what is certain right now is that if a CN ASIC fails you can't buy a new replacement for it. If DERO - or other CN coins - become wildly popular in the future (as defined by market cap), then more CN ASICs might be produced, but there could still be a long lead time between an upswing in price/market cap and an ASIC manufacturer responding to it. Furthermore, another situation all but guaranteed to happen at some point is DERO not being the most profitable CN coin to mine so most of the ASICs switch away from it; that would also cause a collapse in hashrate that could be exploited.

Basically, the point I am trying to make here is that sticking with an ASIC'ed algo does not necessarily improve network security. The only (current) way for coin devs to truly secure a consensus-based PoW algo is to hold the majority of hashrate themselves, otherwise you are trusting strangers to not gang up on you (which kinda fails the "trustless" criterion, eh?).

***

On a separate note, I caught most of the wild pie-fight on Discord today between a bunch of TurtleCoin supporters and --Serena--. Rather than editorialize I'll just reprint one of her comments and let the gentle reader draw his or her own conclusions:

Quote from: --Serena--
I can say one thing for sure though
Turtlecoin is a shitcoin, that is all.

Lol, stay classy, --Serena--...


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krypt0id
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June 26, 2018, 11:21:20 PM
 #3462

You're right in that nothing lasts forever. That was a poor choice of words on my part. However, the most likely scenario I see occurring is that CN ASICs fail at a gradual rate and so there will be a long period of time where hashrate becomes more concentrated among fewer machines - perhaps entirely on a Bitmain pool, which would be even worse - yet is still too high (relative to DERO's price) to make mining it with a GPU worthwhile, much less attractive.

Even if that interval only lasts a few months it will be a serious vulnerability for the network, and that was more or less what I imagined happening when I made my earlier post.
 

On a theoretical level, I see your point. I'm just not sure how likely that scenario is. It does make sense in that regard I just don't see it as probable, personally.

Perhaps, but what is certain right now is that if a CN ASIC fails you can't buy a new replacement for it. If DERO - or other CN coins - become wildly popular in the future (as defined by market cap), then more CN ASICs might be produced, but there could still be a long lead time between an upswing in price/market cap and an ASIC manufacturer responding to it. Furthermore, another situation all but guaranteed to happen at some point is DERO not being the most profitable CN coin to mine so most of the ASICs switch away from it; that would also cause a collapse in hashrate that could be exploited.

Basically, the point I am trying to make here is that sticking with an ASIC'ed algo does not necessarily improve network security. The only (current) way for coin devs to truly secure a consensus-based PoW algo is to hold the majority of hashrate themselves, otherwise you are trusting strangers to not gang up on you (which kinda fails the "trustless" criterion, eh?).

***

On a separate note, I caught most of the wild pie-fight on Discord today between a bunch of TurtleCoin supporters and --Serena--. Rather than editorialize I'll just reprint one of her comments and let the gentle reader draw his or her own conclusions:

Quote from: --Serena--
I can say one thing for sure though
Turtlecoin is a shitcoin, that is all.

Lol, stay classy, --Serena--...




Ya, trying to put someone on blast is super classy in comparison.

I don't blame her, they basically raided the dero discord.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
tf2addict
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June 27, 2018, 12:30:55 AM
 #3463

Serena Fox sure as hell ain't her real name.

Still waiting for team information... not to mention source code.
Mojo_LB
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June 27, 2018, 12:49:32 AM
 #3464

Serena Fox sure as hell ain't her real name.

Still waiting for team information... not to mention source code.

Guess what?!! Mojo isn't my real name either

Oh CaptDero isn't his real name either

I may be going out on a limb here, but I'd say tf2addict isn't your real name as well Smiley  Grin Cheesy
krypt0id
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June 27, 2018, 12:55:08 AM
Last edit: June 27, 2018, 01:10:35 AM by krypt0id
 #3465

Serena Fox sure as hell ain't her real name.

Still waiting for team information... not to mention source code.

Just addressed source code thing. Quit trolling about it. Who cares who the devs are if they deliver?

Remember when people didn't need to know the real life identities of a coin's devs? Pepperidge farm remembers.

I forget, who developed the first version of bitcoin, again?

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
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June 27, 2018, 01:39:10 AM
 #3466

-------Atlantis mainnet upgrade in a few hours-------

We've asked the exchanges to disable their wallets, and we're preparing to switch to the Atlantis mainnet sometime in the next few hours. We're confirming that the pool software is configured and working for everyone for a few hours, and then the mainnet is going to go live. We anticipate 1 - 2 hours of downtime while we switch onto the Atlantis mainnet. Details regarding how to sync, and any other relevant information will be released with the mainnet launch.
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June 27, 2018, 03:44:48 AM
Last edit: June 27, 2018, 04:02:05 AM by --Serena--
 #3467

Can everyone please stop transactions on the current mainnet and the Atlantis testnet until further notice. We will let everyone know when things are running smoothly after we've had a chance to test the mainnet when it goes live
scott d
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June 27, 2018, 07:29:14 AM
 #3468

-------Atlantis mainnet upgrade in a few hours-------

We've asked the exchanges to disable their wallets, and we're preparing to switch to the Atlantis mainnet sometime in the next few hours. We're confirming that the pool software is configured and working for everyone for a few hours, and then the mainnet is going to go live. We anticipate 1 - 2 hours of downtime while we switch onto the Atlantis mainnet. Details regarding how to sync, and any other relevant information will be released with the mainnet launch.

Great news  Smiley . Dero is a big project , troll are momentary. Stay strong and always ahead
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June 27, 2018, 09:57:43 AM
 #3469

----Atlantis mainnet released----

Hello everyone we're very excited to announce the release of the Atlantis mainnet, and blocks are just starting to move now. Please download from - http://seeds.dero.io/atlantis/
scott d
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June 27, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
 #3470

Congratulations  Smiley Wink

Go DERO
visionary
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June 27, 2018, 11:20:22 AM
 #3471

DAG plus POW plus smart contracts. Does it make sense? I am unable to understand, can they. But I hope they can.
WhyMe
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June 27, 2018, 01:31:47 PM
 #3472

----Atlantis mainnet released----

Hello everyone we're very excited to announce the release of the Atlantis mainnet, and blocks are just starting to move now. Please download from - http://seeds.dero.io/atlantis/
Can you put files on a server with more upload bandwitdh please ?
GhostPlayer
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June 27, 2018, 03:05:18 PM
 #3473

DAG plus POW plus smart contracts. Does it make sense? I am unable to understand, can they. But I hope they can.

 Fluffypony is openly against the idea of smart contract within cryptonote.
 But then again, Monero is also hardcore and truly againts ASICs. And they don't BS people about it.

 So if you add these two negatives together, you get DERO.
 I lost total respect for this projects, as the Devs & team are clearly drinking from their own kool-aid.

 Zero respect for community voice, flip-flopping on promisses and openly ignoring addressing questions.

  I'm out this project. Best of luck.
b9ron
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June 27, 2018, 03:12:33 PM
 #3474

DAG plus POW plus smart contracts. Does it make sense? I am unable to understand, can they. But I hope they can.

 Fluffypony is openly against the idea of smart contract within cryptonote.
 But then again, Monero is also hardcore and truly againts ASICs. And they don't BS people about it.

 So if you add these two negatives together, you get DERO.
 I lost total respect for this projects, as the Devs & team are clearly drinking from their own kool-aid.

 Zero respect for community voice, flip-flopping on promisses and openly ignoring addressing questions.

  I'm out this project. Best of luck.

Have fun with FPGAs and private ASIC miners.

And Dero isn't a fork anymore, it's an enhanced version of CryptoNote.

But I think you should listen the guy who spend $800k on a watch, after all it's more safe.
WhyMe
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June 27, 2018, 03:31:04 PM
 #3475

Last blocks sync in progress, new wallet created.
But how we mine this now ?
GhostPlayer
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June 27, 2018, 03:32:16 PM
Last edit: June 27, 2018, 03:45:18 PM by GhostPlayer
 #3476


Have fun with FPGAs and private ASIC miners.

And Dero isn't a fork anymore, it's an enhanced version of CryptoNote.

But I think you should listen the guy who spend $800k on a watch, after all it's more safe.

 Thanks buddy, but learn your tech - it enhances nothing. It is never the best tech that wins, it is always the strongest community support that wins - this is the plain cold truth of a techological society. And this tech is not proven yet - there is no usecase, no real MVP, no product yet.

 Because in no way the exact same thing happens to any commercially available ASIC... oh no, it doesnt.
 And they would never refurb and sell soon-to-be doorstops out to the world after mining to kingdome come - they wouldnt dare.

 Fact is, GPU are democratic, ASIC are not.

 A 16 year old can build a miner in a week. It take substantial disposable income to risk pre-orders, group-buys or china imports.
 These are always done in bulk, even knowingly buying thousands of ASIC to mine for a few months and dump on ebays etc.
 Extremly short and limited warranties.

 ASIC, until mass produced by numerous world-wide OEM's, are a very closed-doors of insider priviledged.

 Big ASIC farms simply cannot speculate on future returns. First they need to ROI as fast as humanly possible, then pay for bills, then ... there is nothing left as new ASIC roll out to cannibalise earnings.

 GPU's you have tons of re-sale value. Extended warranties. Buy it in every town and every nation - without restrictions.

 FPGA are reporgramable. ASICs are not.

 ASIC are only making chinese ASIC producers filthy rich. Nothing more, nothing less - good on them for being pioneers!

 GPU are much more flexible to switch coins, maintaining a far less negative sell-pressure on any given network. ASIC create insanely negative price pressure. Especially so on young coins. To the point where everyone looses interest.

 When the largest supporting marketcap algo switches, there is zero incentive for ASIC producers to create a better version for tiny puny coins that are inherently worthless due to being so young. Soon, these ASIC will fry out, and no replacement. Back to GPU it will have to be.

 So yeah ... good luck DERO -  the new SUMO
MagicSmoker
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June 27, 2018, 03:35:23 PM
 #3477

Last blocks sync in progress, new wallet created.
But how we mine this now ?

With a Bitmain X3.
lanangwidyadnyana
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June 27, 2018, 03:39:03 PM
 #3478

really nice project, DERO is a new, experimental blockchain technology written in Golang with a focus on enhanced Privacy and Smart Contracts while maintaining the transparency and security of the blockchain. The goal is to create a unique state of the art blockchain technology with enhanced Reliability, Privacy, Security, Usability, and Portability by bringing together some of the best proven technologies like CryptoNote Protocol and Smart Contracts, thereby allowing for the creation of Private Smart Contracts.
will joining soon this project, and i believe this project will success in the future
b9ron
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June 27, 2018, 03:44:12 PM
 #3479


Have fun with FPGAs and private ASIC miners.

And Dero isn't a fork anymore, it's an enhanced version of CryptoNote.

But I think you should listen the guy who spend $800k on a watch, after all it's more safe.

 Thanks buddy.

 Because in no way the exact same thing happens to any commercially available ASIC... oh no, it doesnt.
 And they would never refurb and sell soon-to-be doorstops out to the world after mining to kingdome come - they wouldnt dare.

 Fact is, GPU are democratic, ASIC are not.

 A 16 year old can build a miner in a week. It take substantial disposable income to risk pre-orders, group-buys or china imports.
 These are always done in bulk, even knowingly buying thousands of ASIC to mine for a few months and dump on ebays etc.
 Extremly short and limited warranties.

 ASIC, until mass produced by numerous world-wide OEM's, are a very closed-doors of insider priviledged.

 Big ASIC farms simply cannot speculate of future returns. First need to ROI as fast as humanly possible, then pay bill, then ... there is nothing.
 GPU's you have tons of re-sale value. Extended warranties. Buy it in every town, in every country, every nation - without restrictions.

 FPGA are reporgramable. ASICs are not.

 ASIC are only making chinese ASIC producers filthy rich. Nothing more, nothing less - good on them for being pioneers!

 GPU are much more flexible to switch coins, maintaining a far less negative sell-pressure on any give network. ASIC create insanely negative price pressure. Especially so on young coins. To the point where everyone looses interest.

 So yeah ... good luck DERO -  the new SUMO

So you suggest we should change the PoW and hard fork every week to fight against FPGA/ASIC because you can't buy one in your local store ?
Are you aware you are comparing between a cryptocurrency and a platform ?
How dApps are supposed to work if the platform is unstable or worse with security flaw ?
MagicSmoker
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June 27, 2018, 03:46:30 PM
 #3480

...
will joining soon this project, and i believe this project will success in the future

Lol, first there's an open rebellion against the about-face on ASICs and now here come the professional shitposting sig-spammers.

Meanwhile, price has declined >40% since June 21. Can I get a golf clap anyone?

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