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Author Topic: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts  (Read 121196 times)
Miguelgreen
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June 26, 2018, 10:53:32 AM
 #3441

I wose suposing This new algo its going to be anti asic.
Sadly its not. I wose prepraring to buy and Nice cpu.
Well i Will to have to buy the coins on market.
But i see the people have kinda Lost some hope on the project. Its my feeling.
Lets see if This Change. I like the idea honestly.
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tf2addict
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June 26, 2018, 01:28:38 PM
 #3442

1.If anyone invest his time/money on a project just because it's anti asic,he is stupid.
etc,Bitcoin Gold?I'm afraid it's not real anti asic now.

2.If someone hate and leave a project just because it's asic friendly,he is also stupid.
etc,Bitcoin.Any one here mine bitcoin with his gpu?

Bitcoin Gold is certainly anti-ASIC.  Not sure what you're talking about.

And we would mine Bitcoin if we could. And that was the original vision of Satoshi.  You think Satoshi approves of ASICs?  Bitmain's pools now control 42% of Bitcoin mining.  You think that's a good thing?

And finally, you're missing the main point:  the Dero team was portraying themselves as anti-ASIC and they've now shown themselves to be sellouts.
b9ron
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June 26, 2018, 03:03:31 PM
 #3443

 You think Satoshi approves of ASICs?

I think ASIC isn't the Issue, The Issue are ASIC sold by the lowest scumbag on earth, right now.

If ASIC was sell by Intel or AMD they will never be an Issue.

Quote
... they've now shown themselves to be sellouts.

Jesus, It's me or the CryptoWorld is really full of technical illiterate with tinfoil ?
microchip911
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June 26, 2018, 03:07:43 PM
 #3444

Difficulty has been quite high the last week, but it just went full retard: a single RX 570 is now mining less than 1 DERO per day, at an exchange price of ~$0.44US. Normally I'd look at the high hashrate and difficulty increase as validation of a coin's prospects/value, but this feels forced.

I'm not going to stop mining it, but I am definitely reducing the hashrate allocated to it; that is the prudent course of action when some whale comes stomping down on the little minnow miners.
MagicSmoker
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June 26, 2018, 03:26:56 PM
 #3445

It was about how the team communicated to the community touting asic resistance the whole time (which ultimately drew in a lot of supporters and people to buy the coin because of that)

Communication - yes could have been better and earlier. They should take the criticism and improve that on that.

Lol, that's the biggest understatement since the black knight lost both his arms in Monty Python and the Holy Grail:



But fooling investors?

When a project team implies it will do one thing then suddenly does the opposite it is reasonable to think that many will be disappointed, including investors. And I can't help but note that I consider myself more of an investor in DERO, rather than a miner, since I stopped mining back in April and have instead showed my support by being a net-buyer of DERO on the open market.

Asic resistance per se is not a goal, only for miners who want to protect their investments. What Asic resistance stands for in the mind of investors is security of the network from attacks by concentrated hash power. As Dero team has said, many Asic resistant networks now have hidden Asics, which is a great danger and fooling investors who think they buy security.

I previously stated in this thread that I came to agree with the decision to stick with CN for PoW, but now I'm once again not so sure this was the correct decision, but for a different reason: what is going to happen to DERO's network when CN ASICs start failing and can't be replaced simply because there aren't any replacements? *If* DERO grows to the market cap of Monero then ASIC manufacturers will have incentive to make new generations (or batches, anyway) of CN miners, but as of now they certainly don't have any reason to continue producing them.

It would be a terrible irony if the decision that alienated CPU/GPU miners in the name of network security ended up making DERO totally dependent on a shrinking pool of ASIC miners that, ahem, undermines security.

krypt0id
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June 26, 2018, 05:13:15 PM
 #3446

Ummm... If irreplaceable ASICs started to fail, the network hashrate would drop and that would slowly lead back to GPU mining becoming competetive again.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
MagicSmoker
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June 26, 2018, 06:58:40 PM
 #3447

Ummm... If irreplaceable ASICs started to fail, the network hashrate would drop and that would slowly lead back to GPU mining becoming competetive again.

You might want to dial back on the dismissiveness, because the reality is that GPU miners have long since moved their hardware over to other coins and probably don't even bother checking on the DERO network anymore; I know I haven't for several weeks.

In fact, DERO was already known as an ASIC-friendly coin by virtue of it being just that for the last ~3 months, and once it becomes more widely known that it intends to remain on original CryptoNight then it will be forever removed from consideration by GPU/CPU miners, just like nobody but the utter noob thinks about mining BTC with a GPU these days.

krypt0id
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June 26, 2018, 07:07:46 PM
 #3448

Ummm... If irreplaceable ASICs started to fail, the network hashrate would drop and that would slowly lead back to GPU mining becoming competetive again.

You might want to dial back on the dismissiveness, because the reality is that GPU miners have long since moved their hardware over to other coins and probably don't even bother checking on the DERO network anymore; I know I haven't for several weeks.

In fact, DERO was already known as an ASIC-friendly coin by virtue of it being just that for the last ~3 months, and once it becomes more widely known that it intends to remain on original CryptoNight then it will be forever removed from consideration by GPU/CPU miners, just like nobody but the utter noob thinks about mining BTC with a GPU these days.



I think you need to dial back a little, yourself. Nothing lasts forever, including people's decision to mine or not mine something. If the math checks out and money can be made, somebody will mine.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
Nightz
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June 26, 2018, 07:21:52 PM
 #3449

1.If anyone invest his time/money on a project just because it's anti asic,he is stupid.
etc,Bitcoin Gold?I'm afraid it's not real anti asic now.

2.If someone hate and leave a project just because it's asic friendly,he is also stupid.
etc,Bitcoin.Any one here mine bitcoin with his gpu?

Bitcoin Gold is certainly anti-ASIC.  Not sure what you're talking about.

And we would mine Bitcoin if we could. And that was the original vision of Satoshi.  You think Satoshi approves of ASICs?  Bitmain's pools now control 42% of Bitcoin mining.  You think that's a good thing?

And finally, you're missing the main point:  the Dero team was portraying themselves as anti-ASIC and they've now shown themselves to be sellouts.

Satoshi is too smart to not believe that Asics could be developed. I think he knew that something like that would happen.

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MagicSmoker
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June 26, 2018, 07:33:04 PM
 #3450


I think you need to dial back a little, yourself. Nothing lasts forever, including people's decision to mine or not mine something. If the math checks out and money can be made, somebody will mine.

You're right in that nothing lasts forever. That was a poor choice of words on my part. However, the most likely scenario I see occurring is that CN ASICs fail at a gradual rate and so there will be a long period of time where hashrate becomes more concentrated among fewer machines - perhaps entirely on a Bitmain pool, which would be even worse - yet is still too high (relative to DERO's price) to make mining it with a GPU worthwhile, much less attractive.

Even if that interval only lasts a few months it will be a serious vulnerability for the network, and that was more or less what I imagined happening when I made my earlier post.

 
Lcardenas08
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June 26, 2018, 07:37:06 PM
 #3451

1.If anyone invest his time/money on a project just because it's anti asic,he is stupid.
etc,Bitcoin Gold?I'm afraid it's not real anti asic now.

2.If someone hate and leave a project just because it's asic friendly,he is also stupid.
etc,Bitcoin.Any one here mine bitcoin with his gpu?

3.For anyone who hate dero:

PLS DUMP YOUR DERO NOW!
PLS DUMP YOUR DERO NOW!
PLS DUMP YOUR DERO NOW!




And I will take them all.

Look at your community now... They are so smart, coming out with valid points and just calling people stupid. You keep the brightest!!!
krypt0id
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June 26, 2018, 07:42:03 PM
 #3452


I think you need to dial back a little, yourself. Nothing lasts forever, including people's decision to mine or not mine something. If the math checks out and money can be made, somebody will mine.

You're right in that nothing lasts forever. That was a poor choice of words on my part. However, the most likely scenario I see occurring is that CN ASICs fail at a gradual rate and so there will be a long period of time where hashrate becomes more concentrated among fewer machines - perhaps entirely on a Bitmain pool, which would be even worse - yet is still too high (relative to DERO's price) to make mining it with a GPU worthwhile, much less attractive.

Even if that interval only lasts a few months it will be a serious vulnerability for the network, and that was more or less what I imagined happening when I made my earlier post.

 

On a theoretical level, I see your point. I'm just not sure how likely that scenario is. It does make sense in that regard I just don't see it as probable, personally.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
krypt0id
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June 26, 2018, 07:46:45 PM
 #3453

1.If anyone invest his time/money on a project just because it's anti asic,he is stupid.
etc,Bitcoin Gold?I'm afraid it's not real anti asic now.

2.If someone hate and leave a project just because it's asic friendly,he is also stupid.
etc,Bitcoin.Any one here mine bitcoin with his gpu?

3.For anyone who hate dero:

PLS DUMP YOUR DERO NOW!
PLS DUMP YOUR DERO NOW!
PLS DUMP YOUR DERO NOW!




And I will take them all.

Look at your community now... They are so smart, coming out with valid points and just calling people stupid. You keep the brightest!!!

How is that any different from you sarcastically insulting them? I'm not condoning their statements but you're just doing the same thing. If you would like to add to the conversation by explaining the validity of said points, by all means do. If you just want to troll, feel free to keep such comments to yourself.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
tf2addict
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June 26, 2018, 08:51:04 PM
 #3454

This project is such a joke, if not an outright scam.

Still waiting on source code and team information.  You'd have to be crazy to run Dero's node/wallet until it's opened up and independently verified.  You've been warned people.
tf2addict
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June 26, 2018, 08:52:58 PM
 #3455

Everyone knows there is no such supportive team as DERO in crypto world.

Yeah, just look at their "support" for hobbyist/GPU miners.

Geezus man.
krypt0id
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June 26, 2018, 10:36:46 PM
 #3456

Everyone knows there is no such supportive team as DERO in crypto world.

Yeah, just look at their "support" for hobbyist/GPU miners.

Geezus man.

Cool story, bro.

Edit: the code for Atlantis isn't released yet (but either is Atlantis). The dero suite code has been released since the network switched to the golang version.

Anyway, troll away.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
MagicSmoker
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June 26, 2018, 11:11:36 PM
 #3457

You're right in that nothing lasts forever. That was a poor choice of words on my part. However, the most likely scenario I see occurring is that CN ASICs fail at a gradual rate and so there will be a long period of time where hashrate becomes more concentrated among fewer machines - perhaps entirely on a Bitmain pool, which would be even worse - yet is still too high (relative to DERO's price) to make mining it with a GPU worthwhile, much less attractive.

Even if that interval only lasts a few months it will be a serious vulnerability for the network, and that was more or less what I imagined happening when I made my earlier post.
 

On a theoretical level, I see your point. I'm just not sure how likely that scenario is. It does make sense in that regard I just don't see it as probable, personally.

Perhaps, but what is certain right now is that if a CN ASIC fails you can't buy a new replacement for it. If DERO - or other CN coins - become wildly popular in the future (as defined by market cap), then more CN ASICs might be produced, but there could still be a long lead time between an upswing in price/market cap and an ASIC manufacturer responding to it. Furthermore, another situation all but guaranteed to happen at some point is DERO not being the most profitable CN coin to mine so most of the ASICs switch away from it; that would also cause a collapse in hashrate that could be exploited.

Basically, the point I am trying to make here is that sticking with an ASIC'ed algo does not necessarily improve network security. The only (current) way for coin devs to truly secure a consensus-based PoW algo is to hold the majority of hashrate themselves, otherwise you are trusting strangers to not gang up on you (which kinda fails the "trustless" criterion, eh?).

***

On a separate note, I caught most of the wild pie-fight on Discord today between a bunch of TurtleCoin supporters and --Serena--. Rather than editorialize I'll just reprint one of her comments and let the gentle reader draw his or her own conclusions:

Quote from: --Serena--
I can say one thing for sure though
Turtlecoin is a shitcoin, that is all.

Lol, stay classy, --Serena--...


krypt0id
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June 26, 2018, 11:21:20 PM
 #3458

You're right in that nothing lasts forever. That was a poor choice of words on my part. However, the most likely scenario I see occurring is that CN ASICs fail at a gradual rate and so there will be a long period of time where hashrate becomes more concentrated among fewer machines - perhaps entirely on a Bitmain pool, which would be even worse - yet is still too high (relative to DERO's price) to make mining it with a GPU worthwhile, much less attractive.

Even if that interval only lasts a few months it will be a serious vulnerability for the network, and that was more or less what I imagined happening when I made my earlier post.
 

On a theoretical level, I see your point. I'm just not sure how likely that scenario is. It does make sense in that regard I just don't see it as probable, personally.

Perhaps, but what is certain right now is that if a CN ASIC fails you can't buy a new replacement for it. If DERO - or other CN coins - become wildly popular in the future (as defined by market cap), then more CN ASICs might be produced, but there could still be a long lead time between an upswing in price/market cap and an ASIC manufacturer responding to it. Furthermore, another situation all but guaranteed to happen at some point is DERO not being the most profitable CN coin to mine so most of the ASICs switch away from it; that would also cause a collapse in hashrate that could be exploited.

Basically, the point I am trying to make here is that sticking with an ASIC'ed algo does not necessarily improve network security. The only (current) way for coin devs to truly secure a consensus-based PoW algo is to hold the majority of hashrate themselves, otherwise you are trusting strangers to not gang up on you (which kinda fails the "trustless" criterion, eh?).

***

On a separate note, I caught most of the wild pie-fight on Discord today between a bunch of TurtleCoin supporters and --Serena--. Rather than editorialize I'll just reprint one of her comments and let the gentle reader draw his or her own conclusions:

Quote from: --Serena--
I can say one thing for sure though
Turtlecoin is a shitcoin, that is all.

Lol, stay classy, --Serena--...




Ya, trying to put someone on blast is super classy in comparison.

I don't blame her, they basically raided the dero discord.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
tf2addict
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June 27, 2018, 12:30:55 AM
 #3459

Serena Fox sure as hell ain't her real name.

Still waiting for team information... not to mention source code.
Mojo_LB
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June 27, 2018, 12:49:32 AM
 #3460

Serena Fox sure as hell ain't her real name.

Still waiting for team information... not to mention source code.

Guess what?!! Mojo isn't my real name either

Oh CaptDero isn't his real name either

I may be going out on a limb here, but I'd say tf2addict isn't your real name as well Smiley  Grin Cheesy
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