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Author Topic: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts  (Read 81313 times)
MagicSmoker
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May 15, 2018, 11:28:35 PM
 #3001

So cryptocurrencies are worthy of our charity, now? I ask this (rhetorical) question because it costs me $0.86/day to run my 1.9kH/s cryptonight rig which would only bring in $0.30 in DERO...

Also, my rinky-dink 1.9kH/s would hardly be noticed on a >300MH/s network, so I think it's safe to say the DERO network isn't missing me too much.

Finally, keep in mind that EVERY crypto relies on small time CPU and GPU miners to get started; sine qua non. In my opinion, it is more a case of the coin having a responsibility to support us, rather than the other way around.

I long since gave up mining DERO, but I am somewhat hopeful that the Atlantis release will justify the choice to not fork off the CN ASICs. Consequently, DERO still has my support in the form of me not dumping my coins.


This project doesn't owe you anything and dumping your coins will only hurt you.  You can choose to support the network or not.  It's okay to be a fairweather miner.  Like I said, it is your choice.

You seem to be taking a moral high ground of your own invention, because there is nothing noble about continuing to mine with a GPU/CPU when ASICs have been developed for that algo; you are merely contributing to global warming with almost nothing to show in return (in my case, around 0.11 DERO per day). In case you are tempted to persist in this line of argument, consider how many people still mine BTC with a GPU/CPU, for one very notable example. Arguing that I am a fairweather miner because I chose to put my GPUs to work on something far more profitable is analogous to calling a vegan a hypocrite for killing a mosquito... It might technically be true, but it's kind of a dick move to press such an argument.

Finally, I said I'm showing my support for DERO - in lieu of mining - by not dumping my coins, so saying that dumping my coins would only hurt me is a classic case of preaching to the choir.
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daniel.roman
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May 15, 2018, 11:33:32 PM
 #3002


much complaining & nagging and nobody took notice how well dero withstand 300mh on its network?


It's been topping 500 at times.


I think we all noticed that. However, what you think is something good is actually the opposite. As an example, at the first months after the launch of the coin in the official pool there were more than 1000 miners per day, miners with GPU rigs and CPU. If you see now the official pool "http://pool.dero.live/" there are at least 118 miners per day and the hashrate is not bigger than 1 megahash in the pool. Hence, you have to analyze the risk that DERO network is facing, for wherever this ASICS are located are generating 322.59 MH / sec to the DERO network, and what will happen when they are gone? Do not misunderstood me I want them out of the network and return to GPU and CPU mining, but the questions here are. How the DERO team will make real miners come back to the network when the ASICS are gone? How many real miners are mining with ASICS? Is this really decentralization or is it a monopoly? I can think that the entire network is among between 15 – 25 people, for the company who sells the ASICS sell them in units of five or ten units per order.

As other examples compare these three coins that have cryptonite algorithm and crytonote protocol. Each one is different, I know is for example.

If you see the Monero network after 4 years has 480.33 MH / S, with a difficult of 57,640,036,162, the block is 1,573,597 and the reward per block is 4.63 Monero

If you see the HAVEN a coin that appears at the same time that DERO the network is 28.47 MH / S, with a difficult of 3,415,954,846, the block is 68,250 and the reward per block is 30.90 HAVEN, (I know there was a pump and dump in this coin, but that is another theme)

But, when you see DERO for the fault of ASIC the numbers are not logic, the network is 324.59 MH / S, with a difficult of 38,951,381,007, the block is 75,725 and the reward per block is 27.15 DERO.

In my opinion when DERO migrate to Atantis will have to give incentives to GPU and CPU miners to stabilize the network once and for all.
daniel.roman
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May 15, 2018, 11:36:31 PM
 #3003


much complaining & nagging and nobody took notice how well dero withstand 300mh on its network?


It's been topping 500 at times.


I think we all noticed that. However, what you think is something good is actually the opposite. As an example, at the first months after the launch of the coin in the official pool there were more than 1000 miners per day, miners with GPU rigs and CPU. If you see now the official pool "http://pool.dero.live/" there are at least 118 miners per day and the hashrate is not bigger than 1 megahash in the pool. Hence, you have to analyze the risk that DERO network is facing, for wherever this ASICS are located are generating 322.59 MH / sec to the DERO network, and what will happen when they are gone? Do not misunderstood me I want them out of the network and return to GPU and CPU mining, but the questions here are. How the DERO team will make real miners come back to the network when the ASICS are gone? How many real miners are mining with ASICS? Is this really decentralization or is it a monopoly? I can think that the entire network is among between 15 – 25 people, for the company who sells the ASICS sell them in units of five or ten units per order.

As other examples compare these three coins that have cryptonite algorithm and crytonote protocol. Each one is different, I know is for example.

If you see the Monero network after 4 years has 480.33 MH / S, with a difficult of 57,640,036,162, the block is 1,573,597 and the reward per block is 4.63 Monero

If you see  HAVEN a coin that appears at the same time that DERO the network is 28.47 MH / S, with a difficult of 3,415,954,846, the block is 68,250 and the reward per block is 30.90 HAVEN, (I know there was a pump and dump in this coin, but that is another theme)

But, when you see DERO for the fault of ASIC the numbers are not logic, the network is 324.59 MH / S, with a difficult of 38,951,381,007, the block is 75,725 and the reward per block is 27.15 DERO.

In my opinion when DERO migrate to Atantis will have to give incentives to GPU and CPU miners to stabilize the network once and for all.

daniel.roman
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May 15, 2018, 11:42:43 PM
 #3004

I started the wallet in the Tails OS, but I do not have synchronization with the network. How to specify the proxy of TOP nodes in the settings?
And tell me please, I understand correctly that DERO Atlantis will be an ordinary client? I would like to see a graphical interface, because for me it is much more pleasant than using a console  Smiley

What they said, although I will go one step further and say I have no freaking clue how to navigate a console at this point in time. A QT wallet would be great, but if not at least a mobile or web wallet perhaps? Anywhere but the exchange to store DERO please and thanks  Smiley

Anywhere but the exchange to store DERO please and thanks  Smiley, hahaha, you make my day with that comment hahaha, if I want help  in configurate the console PM
daniel.roman
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May 15, 2018, 11:54:38 PM
 #3005

Monero and Dero lol its a Monero Copy?!

Yeah, you should move on to another project.


In fact, it not complete true, DERO is a copy of Cryptonite algorithm (Monero Project) and Criptonote Protocol. Both are written in the language C++. However, CapDero had rewrite the entire code in the language GO (GOLANG). Is important to understand what GO is, and its benefits, to see the differences. (please google it)

There are a lot of more technical explanations but this is the simple one. I think the principal benefit is that GO was entirely made to run faster applications in cluod systems and was created to resolve problems of communication that google has in cluod computing. And the reason DERO will be better than anyone for now is  that it will have the faster communications system and transactions in the network compare to the others.

This are the key features of the project posted but the official team:

•   DERO is a completely new and unique CryptoNote blockchain written in Golang
•   DERO is the first blockchain to have complete SSL in the P2P layer
•   DERO will be the first CryptoNote blockchain to have 500 transactions per second on its native blockchain without any lightning networks, validators or off-blockchain solutions
•   DERO will be first CryptoNote blockchain to have smart contracts on its native chain without any extra layers or secondary blockchains
•   CryptoNote privacy
•   Smart contracts
•   Atomic swaps
•   Mobile and offline wallets
•   Lightweight wallets
•   Subaddresses
•   Escrow services on the blockchain
•   Address signing and certifying
•   Voting on a private blockchain

Hope that with this you  judge better the project
tf2addict
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May 16, 2018, 12:29:41 AM
 #3006

Monero and Dero lol its a Monero Copy?!

Yeah, you should move on to another project.


In fact, it not complete true, DERO is a copy of Cryptonite algorithm (Monero Project) and Criptonote Protocol. Both are written in the language C++. However, CapDero had rewrite the entire code in the language GO (GOLANG). Is important to understand what GO is, and its benefits, to see the differences. (please google it)

There are a lot of more technical explanations but this is the simple one. I think the principal benefit is that GO was entirely made to run faster applications in cluod systems and was created to resolve problems of communication that google has in cluod computing. And the reason DERO will be better than anyone for now is  that it will have the faster communications system and transactions in the network compare to the others.

This are the key features of the project posted but the official team:

•   DERO is a completely new and unique CryptoNote blockchain written in Golang
•   DERO is the first blockchain to have complete SSL in the P2P layer
•   DERO will be the first CryptoNote blockchain to have 500 transactions per second on its native blockchain without any lightning networks, validators or off-blockchain solutions
•   DERO will be first CryptoNote blockchain to have smart contracts on its native chain without any extra layers or secondary blockchains
•   CryptoNote privacy
•   Smart contracts
•   Atomic swaps
•   Mobile and offline wallets
•   Lightweight wallets
•   Subaddresses
•   Escrow services on the blockchain
•   Address signing and certifying
•   Voting on a private blockchain

Hope that with this you  judge better the project


Problems Google has with cloud computing?  What the hell does that have to do with a cryptocurrency?

You don't get faster than C++.  The only reason Dero was rewritten was so they could close source it.  If they hadn't rewritten it they would have had to keep it open source or violate the licensing.
bineva17
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May 16, 2018, 12:40:17 AM
 #3007


3 second blocks and no orphans.  Does anyone believe this?



Another quote for the books.

The FUD is strong with these young padawans.

It's valid FUD until proven that they can do it.  I especially want to see how they overcome the "no orphans" problem.  

Anonymous developers, closed source, insane promises.  This is fine.  Keep up the (blind) faith.

You were right this is a little insane as it's too good to be true and have to admit that I have been keeping up the blind faith for the project from the start. All we have here about Atlantis is speculation. Though we have clues that build up out belief from time to time when we look at all two Dero chat rooms to see how active and wise and experienced the Devs and community are, to add more, as I know they are the first with these incredible valuable privacy + smart contract ideas, huge work of rewriting to Golang, and they have been always ahead of their ambitions on roadmap (not heard from someone else, I was here from the beginning and have been watching those achievements myself). Not to mention with the premined coins are locked they can't dump on us if Atlantis fails.

Till now it's still speculation and it may be blind but it's not harmful to get ourselves some Dero just in case, because if those works done for real in the near future, which is very very likely, we'll have a huge milestone not only for Dero but for the whole crypto world.

***


Problems Google has with cloud computing?  What the hell does that have to do with a cryptocurrency?

You don't get faster than C++.  The only reason Dero was rewritten was so they could close source it.  If they hadn't rewritten it they would have had to keep it open source or violate the licensing.

Far as I know the source code will be open to community when Atlantis gets done. I suggest beside ann thread you should join Slack or Telegram cause things like this has been discussed there many times.
krypt0id
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May 16, 2018, 01:18:32 AM
 #3008


3 second blocks and no orphans.  Does anyone believe this?



Another quote for the books.

The FUD is strong with these young padawans.

It's valid FUD until proven that they can do it.  I especially want to see how they overcome the "no orphans" problem.  

Anonymous developers, closed source, insane promises.  This is fine.  Keep up the (blind) faith.

You were right this is a little insane as it's too good to be true and have to admit that I have been keeping up the blind faith for the project from the start. All we have here about Atlantis is speculation. Though we have clues that build up out belief from time to time when we look at all two Dero chat rooms to see how active and wise and experienced the Devs and community are, to add more, as I know they are the first with these incredible valuable privacy + smart contract ideas, huge work of rewriting to Golang, and they have been always ahead of their ambitions on roadmap (not heard from someone else, I was here from the beginning and have been watching those achievements myself). Not to mention with the premined coins are locked they can't dump on us if Atlantis fails.

Till now it's still speculation and it may be blind but it's not harmful to get ourselves some Dero just in case, because if those works done for real in the near future, which is very very likely, we'll have a huge milestone not only for Dero but for the whole crypto world.

***


Problems Google has with cloud computing?  What the hell does that have to do with a cryptocurrency?

You don't get faster than C++.  The only reason Dero was rewritten was so they could close source it.  If they hadn't rewritten it they would have had to keep it open source or violate the licensing.

Far as I know the source code will be open to community when Atlantis gets done. I suggest beside ann thread you should join Slack or Telegram cause things like this has been discussed there many times.


It's not closed source if the software isn't out for use, yet. The source just isn't available yet because the software hasn't been released. There is a difference between closed source, open source and free software. Dero is open source, it is not free software.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
krypt0id
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May 16, 2018, 01:20:04 AM
 #3009

Monero and Dero lol its a Monero Copy?!

Yeah, you should move on to another project.


In fact, it not complete true, DERO is a copy of Cryptonite algorithm (Monero Project) and Criptonote Protocol. Both are written in the language C++. However, CapDero had rewrite the entire code in the language GO (GOLANG). Is important to understand what GO is, and its benefits, to see the differences. (please google it)

There are a lot of more technical explanations but this is the simple one. I think the principal benefit is that GO was entirely made to run faster applications in cluod systems and was created to resolve problems of communication that google has in cluod computing. And the reason DERO will be better than anyone for now is  that it will have the faster communications system and transactions in the network compare to the others.

This are the key features of the project posted but the official team:

•   DERO is a completely new and unique CryptoNote blockchain written in Golang
•   DERO is the first blockchain to have complete SSL in the P2P layer
•   DERO will be the first CryptoNote blockchain to have 500 transactions per second on its native blockchain without any lightning networks, validators or off-blockchain solutions
•   DERO will be first CryptoNote blockchain to have smart contracts on its native chain without any extra layers or secondary blockchains
•   CryptoNote privacy
•   Smart contracts
•   Atomic swaps
•   Mobile and offline wallets
•   Lightweight wallets
•   Subaddresses
•   Escrow services on the blockchain
•   Address signing and certifying
•   Voting on a private blockchain

Hope that with this you  judge better the project



 You should read further back than the last few pages. Dank has been around for a long time and he was joking.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
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May 16, 2018, 06:01:08 AM
Last edit: May 16, 2018, 06:11:48 AM by Edwinc08
 #3010

I've been supporting Dero since day one and the one thing that really hurts is that GPU miners(myself included) were the ones supporting and contributing to Dero since the beginning. However, the Dero team decided to hand the network over to asics without hesitation, centralizing the network with no solid explanation. Really puts things in perspective. I already sold all my Dero and have moved on to another project. I know many of my fellow miners have done the same. I check on how the project is doing from time to time but sadly, now, their just seems to be fud. Cryptonote is special because it is private, and asic resistant which helps make the network egalitarian. Something that apparently doesn't matter much to the Dero team. The premine shows a good amount of greed as well. It's impressive rewriting code and creating your own blockchain and the code is solid. Serena is an amazing community manager as well, maybe the best I have seen. However, I have also seen how unhappy miners abandon projects and I have been around long enough to know this is how many projects die. Asic miners love to dump coins, which cause the community to lose faith in projects and before you know it, they move on to something more innovative and egalitarian. The network doesn't survive without a strong base. I feel betrayed and I know most of this community feels the same way. I don't think you should get rid of asics anymore, it's only going to ruin your chances of recovery. You will make asics unhappy (you know they only mine like 3 dero a day per asic LOL) and most of the miners that were supporting Dero have moved on to a new and interesting project. It will be long before volume comes around again which means it will be a long time before a decent exchange. Your network will crash without asics. Such smart developers with such bad strategic thinking. I used to think one of the developers was from Monero but I know that is impossible now.  
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May 16, 2018, 06:05:16 AM
 #3011


3 second blocks and no orphans.  Does anyone believe this?



Another quote for the books.

The FUD is strong with these young padawans.

It's valid FUD until proven that they can do it.  I especially want to see how they overcome the "no orphans" problem.  

Anonymous developers, closed source, insane promises.  This is fine.  Keep up the (blind) faith.

You were right this is a little insane as it's too good to be true and have to admit that I have been keeping up the blind faith for the project from the start. All we have here about Atlantis is speculation. Though we have clues that build up out belief from time to time when we look at all two Dero chat rooms to see how active and wise and experienced the Devs and community are, to add more, as I know they are the first with these incredible valuable privacy + smart contract ideas, huge work of rewriting to Golang, and they have been always ahead of their ambitions on roadmap (not heard from someone else, I was here from the beginning and have been watching those achievements myself). Not to mention with the premined coins are locked they can't dump on us if Atlantis fails.

Till now it's still speculation and it may be blind but it's not harmful to get ourselves some Dero just in case, because if those works done for real in the near future, which is very very likely, we'll have a huge milestone not only for Dero but for the whole crypto world.

***


Problems Google has with cloud computing?  What the hell does that have to do with a cryptocurrency?

You don't get faster than C++.  The only reason Dero was rewritten was so they could close source it.  If they hadn't rewritten it they would have had to keep it open source or violate the licensing.

Far as I know the source code will be open to community when Atlantis gets done. I suggest beside ann thread you should join Slack or Telegram cause things like this has been discussed there many times.


It's not closed source if the software isn't out for use, yet. The source just isn't available yet because the software hasn't been released. There is a difference between closed source, open source and free software. Dero is open source, it is not free software.

You know decent projects have GUI wallets right away. Most developers are able to make them in a couple days. I never understood why Dero wanted to wait until Q2. Six months after starting the project. Maybe they are making a wallet that will blow our minds, maybe they wanted to wait until Atlantis, but who knows. Six months is a long time.
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May 16, 2018, 08:26:43 AM
 #3012


You know decent projects have GUI wallets right away. Most developers are able to make them in a couple days. I never understood why Dero wanted to wait until Q2. Six months after starting the project. Maybe they are making a wallet that will blow our minds, maybe they wanted to wait until Atlantis, but who knows. Six months is a long time.

The wallet, as you said, is not in itself a big issue. However, keep in mind that our devs already rewrote everything with Atlantis, so anything that communicates with the core (such as a wallet) must be built after the core is finalized. Hence why something so simple has been pushed back so far Smiley
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May 16, 2018, 09:28:24 AM
 #3013


You know decent projects have GUI wallets right away. Most developers are able to make them in a couple days. I never understood why Dero wanted to wait until Q2. Six months after starting the project. Maybe they are making a wallet that will blow our minds, maybe they wanted to wait until Atlantis, but who knows. Six months is a long time.

Have you tried the command line wallet for Dero?  It is a big improvement on the regular CN CLI wallets.  Significantly more user-friendly, with a menu system, and useful functions (such as transferring entire wallet balance with automatic fee calculation instead of endless fiddling with the amount).

My one grip so far is that when showing transaction history, it would be nice to see date/time as well as block height.
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May 16, 2018, 10:00:42 AM
 #3014

I like the simple Cli wallet, gives me a feel of being more in control. I will take that over the new Monero GUI anyday.
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May 16, 2018, 10:08:33 AM
 #3015

However, the Dero team decided to hand the network over to asics without hesitation, centralizing the network with no solid explanation.
...
 Cryptonote is special because it is private, and asic resistant which helps make the network egalitarian.
...
It's impressive rewriting code and creating your own blockchain and the code is solid. Serena is an amazing community manager as well, maybe the best I have seen.

1. Not true, ASICs came by themselves to all CN coins.

2. Not true, CN is not ASIC resistant as we all have seen

3. True, it is an awesome project with a great future
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May 16, 2018, 11:19:28 AM
 #3016

However, the Dero team decided to hand the network over to asics without hesitation, centralizing the network with no solid explanation.
We have been working to make a new PoW that is suitable for the needs of Dero Atlantis. We strongly believe in network security, and so we're working to expediently bring strong positive changes to the table. Network attacks are already happening on many networks, and the source of hashpower is not the issue, the vulnerabilities (that we fixed, and are continuing to fix) are the problem.

Cryptonote is special because it is private, and asic resistant which helps make the network egalitarian. Something that apparently doesn't matter much to the Dero team.
I'm sorry if we gave that impression at any point. If you follow us on Slack, and in our forums you will see that we have a particularly strong interest in maintaining the egalitarian spirit of CryptoNight.

I feel betrayed and I know most of this community feels the same way.
The last thing we would like to do is alientate any portion of our community, and we're working very hard to provide a solution that factors in the many problems hidden and public. There is a lot going on behind the scenes in the crypto world, particularly with hardware and so it's not so black/white anymore.
 

Essentially, this issue is not black & white like many perceive it to be and with deep respect to everyone, this is about to become news in the crypto world.
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May 16, 2018, 11:46:58 AM
 #3017

For those interested in the problems with ASIC resistance this may be a good read: https://blog.sia.tech/the-state-of-cryptocurrency-mining-538004a37f9b
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May 16, 2018, 05:43:25 PM
 #3018

However, the Dero team decided to hand the network over to asics without hesitation, centralizing the network with no solid explanation.
We have been working to make a new PoW that is suitable for the needs of Dero Atlantis. We strongly believe in network security, and so we're working to expediently bring strong positive changes to the table. Network attacks are already happening on many networks, and the source of hashpower is not the issue, the vulnerabilities (that we fixed, and are continuing to fix) are the problem.

Cryptonote is special because it is private, and asic resistant which helps make the network egalitarian. Something that apparently doesn't matter much to the Dero team.
I'm sorry if we gave that impression at any point. If you follow us on Slack, and in our forums you will see that we have a particularly strong interest in maintaining the egalitarian spirit of CryptoNight.

I feel betrayed and I know most of this community feels the same way.
The last thing we would like to do is alientate any portion of our community, and we're working very hard to provide a solution that factors in the many problems hidden and public. There is a lot going on behind the scenes in the crypto world, particularly with hardware and so it's not so black/white anymore.
 

Essentially, this issue is not black & white like many perceive it to be and with deep respect to everyone, this is about to become news in the crypto world.

You should be a politician Serena, you very good with your tact. However you and I both know CapDero didn't see a problem with asics since the beginning, as he stated. We both know the development team had over a month to fix their algorithm(we warned them of the asics with so much time), and we both know they could of made Dero asic resistant in about a week. People forget mining is for decentralization. Not to make developers rich with their premine. Dero has been secure for over a month and handing over the hashing power to asics makes the network more vulnerable because they have ALL the hashing power right now. Doesn't seem all that secure. Its also great to know the developers have their faces hidden so they can just start a new project later without any repercussions if this one doesn't go so well.
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May 16, 2018, 05:59:56 PM
 #3019

For those interested in the problems with ASIC resistance this may be a good read: https://blog.sia.tech/the-state-of-cryptocurrency-mining-538004a37f9b

It's called conflict of interest my good sir. Trust me, they didn't mine monero for a year then release the asics. I mined monero for over a year, the network behavior was normal until February. So its hard to believe. Look what asics did to Dero, from 20 a day with 15 k/s to 1 a day with 15k/s, Monero never went close to that behavior. Don't swallow everything you hear. Sia is just trying to bring a good light to asics so they can make money. The reason GPU mining works for decentralization is because most people have a computer with a GPU, hence most people can mine. Not everyone has an asic and the type of people that buy asics are whales that can afford a product to solely use for mining. You know what a laugh governments and banks have when they see that our "decentralization claim" is contradictory because asics centralize it. You know how bad that looks for crypto. Everything just looks like a money grab. I refuse to believe the Dero team doesn't understand this. Maybe the developers are just good at developing and not thinking of consequences but Serena is smart. Which I actually remember not to long ago when she left Dero because they didn't want to pay her what she is worth. Maybe I am wrong and the Dero team is not as intelligent as I made them to be. I know they are changing their algorithm but just like people don't forget when networks get hacked, people also don't forget when they say they stand for something but they don't. Luckily many new investors are joining crypto but we know not many miners are.     
CorePrime95
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May 16, 2018, 06:53:22 PM
 #3020

It's called conflict of interest my good sir. Trust me, they didn't mine monero for a year then release the asics. I mined monero for over a year, the network behavior was normal until February. So its hard to believe.

Do you really believe Bitmain are angels and tell the public about their ASICs immediatly and sell them?

Dero has been secure for over a month and handing over the hashing power to asics makes the network more vulnerable because they have ALL the hashing power right now. Doesn't seem all that secure.

Dero has had extreme high hashrate attacks because of this, much higher then other coins. But in contrast to other coins it withstood the attacks. I believe the experience with these ASICs on the network will enable the Devs to create the most secure blockchain ever.
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