Bitcoin Forum
December 11, 2017, 11:17:15 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 ... 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 [396] 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 ... 586 »
  Print  
Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 875063 times)
mgio
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 546


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 08:51:12 PM
 #7901

this^
even if hf ships 1600 ghs mpp at the end of Feb (lol) he will still only get ~6BTC per machine in 6 months, not even close to the 61BTC he could have bought for the usd cost of each machine. I'm no investment expert but a 90% loss is not a good investment no matter which way you try to paint it.
I feel sorry for those that don't understand this.   Sad

Not quite.

Not buying something is not the same as taking a loss.

That's like saying everybody who bought BTC last year April for $100 and sold it later at $1000 made a 90% loss because if they instead bought TSLA June calls at that time they would have gotten $10'000 instead.

Hindsight is 20/20. It wasn't foreseeable that the rise would happen at the time it did. If BTC instead fell from $100 to $50, the hardware (even though it's late) would have been the better investment. Just because there were better investments available in hindsight, doesn't mean your investment was a loss.

If your personal risk tolerance is such that you don't like to hold on to BTC, then the BabyJet might still possibly be kind'a profitable-ish, even if BTC stays the same value from now on. For that matter, you can probably just sell your BabyJet on eBay as soon as you receive it and make a USD profit. That is still not a loss.


Now starting off with 60 BTC and intending to make back BTC on the other hand, is a different story. But only if you had the stomach to watch it rise all the way from $100 to $1000 without selling it. Most people would have liquidated after it doubled. 24 hour markets unfortunately makes it very tempting to take profit.


PS: Your genesisblock calculation assumes the equivalent of 110'000 KNC Neptunes (or 600'000 KNC Jupiter class hardware etc.) shipping over the next 6 months. I find that to be unlikely.

No, you are wrong. If BTC fell from $100 to $50, buying BTC still would have been the better investment.

You would buy a BJ for 60 coins, and earn back, lets say, 10 coins. You spent ~$5750 and ended up with $500.

If you had bought BTC, you'd have 60 BTC, and at the end it would be worth $3000. Still the better investment.



Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513034235
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513034235

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513034235
Reply with quote  #2

1513034235
Report to moderator
gmaxwell
Moderator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2366



View Profile
January 29, 2014, 09:10:52 PM
 #7902

No, you are wrong. If BTC fell from $100 to $50, buying BTC still would have been the better investment.
You would buy a BJ for 60 coins, and earn back, lets say, 10 coins. You spent ~$5750 and ended up with $500.
If you had bought BTC, you'd have 60 BTC, and at the end it would be worth $3000. Still the better investment.
Yup. Unless you get into touchy feelies soft valuations of your contribution to the Bitcoin network security (which you probably shouldn't unless you're running and mining on your own node), there is no scenario where a miner which produces less in Bitcoin than you could have had instead is to your advantage.

Bitcoin will not be compromised
aneutronic
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 165


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 09:43:25 PM
 #7903

this^
even if hf ships 1600 ghs mpp at the end of Feb (lol) he will still only get ~6BTC per machine in 6 months, not even close to the 61BTC he could have bought for the usd cost of each machine. I'm no investment expert but a 90% loss is not a good investment no matter which way you try to paint it.
I feel sorry for those that don't understand this.   Sad

Not quite.

Not buying something is not the same as taking a loss.


*facepalm*

yes, quite, just as the last 2 posts state.

I'm not a day trader, I believe in BTC and I'm invested for the long term.
I lost my ass in BTC betting on 2 scamming miner manufacturers, and I use that term very loosely, and now I'm done.
I've contributed all I can afford to the security of the network so no more miners for me, I will buy BTC whenever possible and hodl.

dbbit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280


★BREATH-BASED illness diagnostic★


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 11:08:28 PM
 #7904

No, you are wrong. If BTC fell from $100 to $50, buying BTC still would have been the better investment.

You would buy a BJ for 60 coins, and earn back, lets say, 10 coins. You spent ~$5750 and ended up with $500.

If you had bought BTC, you'd have 60 BTC, and at the end it would be worth $3000. Still the better investment.

Not necessarily. ASIC miner hardware would have been cheaper as a result of bitcoin being cheaper, but not that much cheaper. The price still has a floor that is controlled by the hardware manufacturing process. So you'd be able to sell a 400ghs miner for let's say $3500 on ebay (as opposed to getting ~ $7000 today).

So buy a miner for 60 BTC, sell it for $3500 and then buy 70 BTC with it.

Of course that wasn't the case, so this is speculation.

dbbit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280


★BREATH-BASED illness diagnostic★


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 11:20:31 PM
 #7905

Yup. Unless you get into touchy feelies soft valuations of your contribution to the Bitcoin network security (which you probably shouldn't unless you're running and mining on your own node), there is no scenario where a miner which produces less in Bitcoin than you could have had instead is to your advantage.

I'm not saying that it was the more advantageous trade. I'm saying that a missed opportunity is not the same as a loss.


At the time DPR got arrested I thought BTC was more likely to hit $50 than $1000. So I decided to leverage and stay with USD and not invest in BTC. I was totally wrong of course, BUT I didn't lose any money. I can sell (or refund) my BabyJet now for more than I paid for it, and probably also still mine more than I paid for it.

You guys however decided that investing in BTC was a great idea at that time, and you were right. However, you lost money.

Funny how that works out.


Jutarul
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994



View Profile
January 29, 2014, 11:53:26 PM
 #7906

....
Of course that wasn't the case, so this is speculation.
I am seeing people making a lot of messed up arguments about how spending money on mining equipment is a form of speculation and how it depends on Bitcoin price. It's a straw man which distracts from the real issue:

HashFast sold hardware based on an october delivery which resulted in yield projection based on a 2 PetaHash network. They failed to deliver by a significant time-span and the network is now 20 PetaHash and the yield projection is down to 10%. That right there, gentlemen, is the damage done and the only way HashFast can possibly compensate for those yield losses is by eating into their previous, current and future profit margins.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
Coin_Master
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 148


View Profile
January 29, 2014, 11:58:17 PM
 #7907

HashFast sold hardware based on an october delivery which resulted in yield projection based on a 2 PetaHash network. They failed to deliver by a significant time-span and the network is now 20 PetaHash and the yield projection is down to 10%. That right there, gentlemen, is the damage done
Agreed.
Kouye
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336


Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.


View Profile
January 30, 2014, 12:05:13 AM
 #7908

Yup. Unless you get into touchy feelies soft valuations of your contribution to the Bitcoin network security (which you probably shouldn't unless you're running and mining on your own node), there is no scenario where a miner which produces less in Bitcoin than you could have had instead is to your advantage.
How's the lawsuit going?

[OVER] RIDDLES 2nd edition --- this was claimed. Look out for 3rd edition!
I won't ever ask for a loan nor offer any escrow service. If I do, please consider my account as hacked.
matthewh3
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372



View Profile WWW
January 30, 2014, 12:07:06 AM
 #7909

....
Of course that wasn't the case, so this is speculation.
I am seeing people making a lot of messed up arguments about how spending money on mining equipment is a form of speculation and how it depends on Bitcoin price. It's a straw man which distracts from the real issue:

HashFast sold hardware based on an october delivery which resulted in yield projection based on a 2 PetaHash network. They failed to deliver by a significant time-span and the network is now 20 PetaHash and the yield projection is down to 10%. That right there, gentlemen, is the damage done and the only way HashFast can possibly compensate for those yield losses is by eating into their previous, current and future profit margins.

In my best guess HF will only do what BFL did at best and offer customers a discount on a new pre-order for a new product range.  Like BFL did with the Monarch for their 65nm pre-order customers.  Which they first promised for delivery last October and are now say late March delivery at the earliest IIRC  Roll Eyes

Jutarul
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994



View Profile
January 30, 2014, 12:09:53 AM
 #7910

In my best guess HF will only do what BFL did at best and offer customers a discount on a new pre-order for a new product range.  Like BFL did with the Monarch for their 65nm pre-order customers.  Which they first promised for delivery last October and are now say late March delivery at the earliest IIRC  Roll Eyes
Every customer is free to make their own decisions. But given their track record, any further deal with HashFast in which you as a customer have to extend trust first would fall into the category of what Einstein called the definition of insanity.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
Kouye
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336


Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.


View Profile
January 30, 2014, 12:16:41 AM
 #7911

Every customer is free to make their own decisions. But given their track record, any further deal with HashFast in which you as a customer have to extend trust first would fall into the category of what Einstein called the definition of insanity.
As you're an AM board member, any post of yours here should be discarded. (even though I might agree with you).
Please keep your interventions within what is morally acceptable.

[OVER] RIDDLES 2nd edition --- this was claimed. Look out for 3rd edition!
I won't ever ask for a loan nor offer any escrow service. If I do, please consider my account as hacked.
dbbit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280


★BREATH-BASED illness diagnostic★


View Profile
January 30, 2014, 12:29:53 AM
 #7912

what Einstein called the definition of insanity.

Misattribution. Einstein never said that.

The first sources of the quote came from somewhere between 1979 and 1983, by both Narcotics Anonymous & Rite Mae Brown. It's unsure who of them came up with it first, but it sure wasn't Einstein.

ninjarobot
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 757


Mine Silent, Mine Deep


View Profile
January 30, 2014, 12:42:41 AM
 #7913

In my best guess HF will only do what BFL did at best and offer customers a discount on a new pre-order for a new product range.  Like BFL did with the Monarch for their 65nm pre-order customers.  Which they first promised for delivery last October and are now say late March delivery at the earliest IIRC  Roll Eyes

If I remember correctly, BFL first jacked the prices of their miners by 100% and then gave pre-order customers a 25% discount voucher for future purchases to compensate for the delays. Also, the voucher would expire ~30 days after issuance...

matthewh3
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372



View Profile WWW
January 30, 2014, 01:08:42 AM
 #7914

In my best guess HF will only do what BFL did at best and offer customers a discount on a new pre-order for a new product range.  Like BFL did with the Monarch for their 65nm pre-order customers.  Which they first promised for delivery last October and are now say late March delivery at the earliest IIRC  Roll Eyes

If I remember correctly, BFL first jacked the prices of their miners by 100% and then gave pre-order customers a 25% discount voucher for future purchases to compensate for the delays. Also, the voucher would expire ~30 days after issuance...



Yeah, and I never fell for it and luckily put our coins on KNC instead.  The only reason I even put money down on BFL was because for nearly a year they were the only bitcoin ASIC manufacturer with anything public you could put money down on.  I wouldn't trust HF again if I was a pre-order customer either after what they've done too.  Although CT I might still trust so far as they let December pre-order customers move into cheaper January pre-orders at very late notice.  Although it currently looks like January CT pre-order customers are going to take a big loss in bitcoin ROI.

cedivad
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134



View Profile
January 30, 2014, 01:22:25 AM
 #7915

The only reason I even put money down on BFL was because for nearly a year they were the only bitcoin ASIC manufacturer with anything public you could put money down on.
BFL's ASIC was announced summer 2012. Avalon's ASIC September 2012.
Am i wrong?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
Easy2Mine
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 700


PikcioChain ICO Starts on 24th of November


View Profile
January 30, 2014, 01:59:24 AM
 #7916

No, you are not wrong.
Friedcat was the last one to announce working on asic after bASIC, but is the first one to market.


███  █████
███  ██  ██
██    ██  ██
██  ███  ██
██  █  █  ██
      █  █  ██
██  █  █
██  █  █  ██
██  ███  ██
██  ██    ██
██  ██  ███
█████  ███
.PIKCIOCHAIN.                         ▄▄█████▄▄
                        ██▀     ▀██
                       ██  ▄███▄  ██
                      ██  ███████  ██
                      ██  ███████  ██
                       ██  ▀███▀  ██
        ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄      ▄███▄     ▄██
     ▄████████████▄ ▄██▀ ▀▀█████▀▀
   ▄████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄              ▄▄▄▄▄
  ███▀            ▀███           ▄█████████▄
 ███▀              ▀███        ▄███▀▀   ▀▀██▀
███▀     ▄████▄     ▀███      ▄██▀
███     ████████     ████████████
███     ████████     ████████████
███▄     ▀████▀     ▄███      ▀██▄
 ███▄              ▄███        ▀███▄▄   ▄▄██▄
  ███▄            ▄███           ▀█████████▀
   ▀████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀               ▀▀▀▀▀
     ▀████████████▀
        ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

███  ███
███  █  █
█      █  █
█  ███  █
█  █  █  █
    █  █  █
█  █  █
█  █  █  █
█  ███  █
█  █      █
█  █  ███
███  ███

███  ███
███  █  █
█      █  █
█  ███  █
█  █  █  █
    █  █  █
█  █  █
█  █  █  █
█  ███  █
█  █      █
█  █  ███
███  ███

███  █████
███  ██  ██
██    ██  ██
██  ███  ██
██  █  █  ██
      █  █  ██
██  █  █
██  █  █  ██
██  ███  ██
██  ██    ██
██  ██  ███
█████  ███
tacotime
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484



View Profile
January 30, 2014, 02:04:08 AM
 #7917

John Skrodenis emailed me and asked me to specify that the notification I received was not for shipping for batch two, but rather just to check my mailing address.

Apparently a lot of B1 customers are upset and he wanted me to clarify this.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
Flashman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518


Hodl!


View Profile
January 30, 2014, 02:24:10 AM
 #7918

The only reason I even put money down on BFL was because for nearly a year they were the only bitcoin ASIC manufacturer with anything public you could put money down on.
BFL's ASIC was announced summer 2012. Avalon's ASIC September 2012.
Am i wrong?

But as far as the put money down thing, Avalon didn't take 1st batch orders until Jan 2013. Which filled up damn quick as did batch 2 in Feb (?) and then the full crazy happened by the third.

TL;DR See Spot run. Run Spot run. .... .... Freelance interweb comedian, for teh lulz >>> 1MqAAR4XkJWfDt367hVTv5SstPZ54Fwse6

Bitcoin Custodian: Keeping BTC away from weak heads since Feb '13, adopter of homeless bitcoins.
edgie13
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 156


View Profile
January 30, 2014, 02:29:21 AM
 #7919

John Skrodenis emailed me and asked me to specify that the notification I received was not for shipping for batch two, but rather just to check my mailing address.

Apparently a lot of B1 customers are upset and he wanted me to clarify this.

B2 customers are upset also. Did he clarify when B2 would start shipping?

BTC Scotch fund: 1GFZos2WGknCeVgDtjpHwo3jeJ4tSLVrXS
tacotime
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484



View Profile
January 30, 2014, 02:46:04 AM
 #7920

John Skrodenis emailed me and asked me to specify that the notification I received was not for shipping for batch two, but rather just to check my mailing address.

Apparently a lot of B1 customers are upset and he wanted me to clarify this.

B2 customers are upset also. Did he clarify when B2 would start shipping?

no

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
Pages: « 1 ... 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 [396] 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 ... 586 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!