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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 875470 times)
DyslexicZombei
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January 14, 2014, 03:53:41 AM
 #6941

By the way, it should go without saying that you should not cash your check. It is a settlement offer. If you cash it, you automatically lose all standing in court.

Thanks for pointing that out to the community. That's some good info right there for BTC buyers.
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Bicknellski
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January 14, 2014, 03:55:47 AM
 #6942

What's doubling interesting is the rate of growth after that date is also higher in general, as if machines are being added at a greater rate in general post that first dramatic spike/turn on.

Just sayin'.....looks an awful lot like a bunch of powerful asic machines were added at once, and more are being added day by day....just sayin'

Any other hardware manufacturers shipping then?  It has to be asic based unless someone quite silly filled a few pods in a data center with non-asic computes that would cost buckets to run...eg doesnt' make sense, has to be asic.

It would be interesting to see if it's a single pool contributing that power and the rate increase.

Cex guys / AsicMiner / Antminer / etc?

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January 14, 2014, 04:00:14 AM
 #6943

I am really wondering how it is possible that such a shit storm comes over hashfast which, honestly in terms of Bitcoin ASIC company is not late by sooo much.
Hell, even BFL still has it's fan club. It's totally silent around Cointerra, compare that to what was going on here at the time when they went "officially late".
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January 14, 2014, 04:04:08 AM
 #6944

>>Cex guys / AsicMiner / Antminer / etc?

Only reason I doubt that is you would see that staggered as people turned them on.   In this case, the first turn on is huge, more than 100TH/s of power.   If it was random antminers, it would take a huge swarm of them to get that much power...small chance customers did this all at once.

This is some heavy weight power added that was done all at once, and then gradually expanded day by day in smaller numbers.   If there was ever an argument to not be pre-ordering ASIC's machines, this is probably it.   I think you will be able to tell which ASIC manufacturers are actually mining themselves, probably with better machines and selling the weaker ones they can sucker into pre-ordering.   By the time you get the machines, there will be so much stronger power out there you can't possibly compete for any profit.   You need to make the asics yourself and stay way ahead in design and investment levels.

This is one reason why this newbie thinks bitcoin feels like it will lose to another coin eventually in my eye.  Requiring ASIC's for the decentralized nature.  Unless SHA ASICs become commodity, I can't see bitcoin winning in the long run.
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January 14, 2014, 04:05:33 AM
 #6945

I am really wondering how it is possible that such a shit storm comes over hashfast which, honestly in terms of Bitcoin ASIC company is not late by sooo much.
Hell, even BFL still has it's fan club. It's totally silent around Cointerra, compare that to what was going on here at the time when they went "officially late".

The facts speak for why there is a shit storm. You have read why people are upset right?

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January 14, 2014, 04:06:12 AM
 #6946

>>Cex guys / AsicMiner / Antminer / etc?

Only reason I doubt that is you would see that staggered as people turned them on.   In this case, the first turn on is huge, more than 100TH/s of power.   If it was random antminers, it would take a huge swarm of them to get that much power...small chance customers did this all at once.

This is some heavy weight power added that was done all at once, and then gradually expanded day by day in smaller numbers.   If there was ever an argument to not be pre-ordering ASIC's machines, this is probably it.   I think you will be able to tell which ASIC manufacturers are actually mining themselves, probably with better machines and selling the weaker ones they can sucker into preordering.

Good reasoning. But CEX has been adding and adding like that for sometime right?

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January 14, 2014, 04:10:09 AM
 #6947

I am really wondering how it is possible that such a shit storm comes over hashfast which, honestly in terms of Bitcoin ASIC company is not late by sooo much.
Hell, even BFL still has it's fan club. It's totally silent around Cointerra, compare that to what was going on here at the time when they went "officially late".

The facts speak for why there is a shit storm. You have read why people are upset right?

You gambled, you lost. Fucking deal with it, live goes on.

Preorders are so that the company can finance development and production of not-yet-existing devices. And that just doesn't go together with full-BTC-refunds.
That should have been clear from the beginning.

I'm just wondering: Coincraft thread: 33 pages, Cointerra thread: 64 pages, Hashfast thread: 352
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January 14, 2014, 04:19:14 AM
 #6948

wow.... if they had ripped me off.... and i was within driving distance.....  guess where i'd be in the morning.....  Smiley

Let me guess: At one of their six known, and counting, addresses.
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January 14, 2014, 04:20:01 AM
 #6949

I am really wondering how it is possible that such a shit storm comes over hashfast which, honestly in terms of Bitcoin ASIC company is not late by sooo much.
Hell, even BFL still has it's fan club. It's totally silent around Cointerra, compare that to what was going on here at the time when they went "officially late".

The facts speak for why there is a shit storm. You have read why people are upset right?

You gambled, you lost. Fucking deal with it, live goes on.

Preorders are so that the company can finance development and production of not-yet-existing devices. And that just doesn't go together with full-BTC-refunds.
That should have been clear from the beginning.

I'm just wondering: Coincraft thread: 33 pages, Cointerra thread: 64 pages, Hashfast thread: 352

I didn't pay a dime into HF. Nor a dime to BFL. Nothing into Cointerra or KnC. I did come close to losing my shirt as it were on Avalon Gen 1 chips but thankfully wiggled out with 0 losses on that.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg3936006#msg3936006 <--- I subscribe to this. Cointerra is no worse or better than any other pre-order ventures until they actually ship on time and fulfill their obligations. What is more surprising is say Monarch and BFL... same shit same pile same customers. Wow.

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January 14, 2014, 04:24:38 AM
 #6950

Quote
You gambled, you lost caught your opponent cheating. Fucking deal with it, live goes on his cheating ass, briskly.

FTFY

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AussieHash
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January 14, 2014, 04:28:51 AM
 #6951

Well it is a good thing they haven't shipped any BJs down under, 44C today (111F) for the Australian Open today.
Bicknellski
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January 14, 2014, 04:28:58 AM
 #6952

Quote
You gambled, you lost caught your opponent cheating. Fucking deal with it, live goes on his cheating ass, briskly.

FTFY

+1

There is a difference between being defrauded and simply making a bad investment. You need to decide which HF is. If you invested in HF it seems pretty clear what is going on here doesn't it? In terms of Cointerra personally I felt it was all about getting your coin so they could afford the prototyping so I steered clear. I don't doubt that if Cointerra fails to deliver as promised we are going to see the same carbon copy as we do here.

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January 14, 2014, 04:31:20 AM
 #6953


You gambled, you lost. Fucking deal with it, live goes on.

Preorders are so that the company can finance development and production of not-yet-existing devices. And that just doesn't go together with full-BTC-refunds.
That should have been clear from the beginning.


what I gambled on that the company was truthful USA company with known people behind it....and why I asked for clarification before i ordered, which i got in the following email:

Quote

Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your patience while I got the answer for you, I greatly appreciate it.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

I hope that helps and hope you have a good weekend!

Thanks,
Cara

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January 14, 2014, 04:31:34 AM
 #6954

I am really wondering how it is possible that such a shit storm comes over hashfast which, honestly in terms of Bitcoin ASIC company is not late by sooo much.
Hell, even BFL still has it's fan club. It's totally silent around Cointerra, compare that to what was going on here at the time when they went "officially late".

The facts speak for why there is a shit storm. You have read why people are upset right?

You gambled, you lost. Fucking deal with it, live goes on.

Preorders are so that the company can finance development and production of not-yet-existing devices. And that just doesn't go together with full-BTC-refunds.
That should have been clear from the beginning.

I'm just wondering: Coincraft thread: 33 pages, Cointerra thread: 64 pages, Hashfast thread: 352


I'd agree with you on "deal with it on a lost gamble" for the folks who did this.....unless HF is doing something which appears to be illegal.   Swapping currencies in a refund feels like its probably not legal unless there is a loophole in the US that treats bitcoin as a non-currency right now.  Either way that feels morally wrong, especially if they actually had the hardware but kept it for themselves.   I think it's worth investigating if HF is using the machines for Mining, even if legally they would be allowed to take the machines for themselves and refund users..... that data, if true, will be useful for all mining speculators about pre-ordering ASIC's.  Even if they aren't, a dramatic spike and rate increase is another sign that average folks should not be buying ASIC's let alone pre-orders.  I think it's worth figuring out the source of the big spike so the community knows and makes informed decisions about how the mining is happening and changing.

I was going to go very big in mining and bailed on it.   This data was the nail in the coffin for me.  Even the best measures showed even if you had the latest equipment today, it would take several months to pay itself off.  Meanwhile larger players are coming online and making projections even more off (eg this +1-200Th/s suddenly), and in 2 months, more people will have that new hardware too.   Unless you are going big and probably starting with actual chips yourself in stealth, I don't see how you can win.


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January 14, 2014, 04:38:12 AM
 #6955

Preorders are so that the company can finance development and production of not-yet-existing devices. And that just doesn't go together with full-BTC-refunds.
That should have been clear from the beginning.
What was clear from the beginning was that refunds of the full amount of BTC paid were promised— this, combined with MPP and the sounds of very short term completion, made the deal appear rather low risk, which was necessary considering that the prices were 2x (and later 4x) higher than the competition. Nor was the expectation of that unreasonable: they had outside investment, taking preorders fills the sales pipeline, makes inventories easier to manage, locks in coin earliest when people will pay the most, and keeps customers from going to the competition.

There are plenty of reasons to take (and pay) pre-orders that has nothing to do with wanting investomers who will take a bath on non-delivery. The prospective returns on the HF devices even if they'd delivered on time would have been at a _loss_ for the single units, then made up for (probably) by MPP. Thats not the kind of prices return anyone would have signed up for if they thought it was a high risk investment rather than selling a product.

(You also don't see e.g. complaints like this for cointerra (yet!) because they were a fraction of the price— while not offering the kinds of assurances HF offered, initially offered Dec/Jan (e.g. not much off— HF customers weren't pulling out pitchforks in November), and when they realized they couldn't make their deadlines they called up their December customers and offered to refund or add capacity to their order to make up for it.)

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January 14, 2014, 04:44:16 AM
 #6956

I'm too pissed off today to deal with ignorant posts like the one by el_rlee.  I think I'll just click ignore and mix a cocktail.
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January 14, 2014, 04:58:05 AM
 #6957

At some point when you see "hey, if they actually stick to everything they promise, i literally cannot lose money in 99.99% of situations and will make massive profit" you are supposed to realize you are being scammed and dealing with liars who will fuck you over

To be fair, a lot of people have been burned on this and it's been going on for over a year now

* BFL
* Avalon Chips
* Hashfast
* Other's i'm probably overlooking

Satoshi's oversight was chosing a PoW algorithm that could be effectively ASIC'd for several orders of magnitude increase in hash rate and power efficency which nessiciarily centralizes all power, profit and leverage into the hands of less than a few dozen human beings on the planet.  If everything were to start from nothing the objectively far superior solution would be a GPU-targeted algo like scrypt which decouples the hardware manufacturer.

One man, one fucking person, one russian, now controls like 30%+ of the network (GHash.io/Cex.io) because he alone had an effective 65nm ASIC and HE ALONE had an essentially unlimited ability to make more money printing machines that only him and a dozen other people on the planet could compete with on terms of marginal cost/hash rate.
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January 14, 2014, 05:17:19 AM
 #6958

I'm sorry, I didn't know that they indeed promised full refund in BTC.

Anyways, it should have been clear from the beginning that this is a high risk investment, from any angle.
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January 14, 2014, 05:35:40 AM
 #6959

At some point when you see "hey, if they actually stick to everything they promise, i literally cannot lose money in 99.99% of situations and will make massive profit" you are supposed to realize you are being scammed and dealing with liars who will fuck you over
Except that wasn't the deal here. If the BJ's had shipped on time assuming a 2%/day hashrate increase they would have been a 10% loss before accounting for the MPP, the MPP was only a correction back up to break evenish.  Actual hashrate growth since the batch 1 orders happened and now has been much greater— more like 2.3%/day. You could say that the BJs had a reasonable potential for some upside if delivered on time and to spec, but massive profit? No way. They wouldn't have made a massive profit if they were delivered to spec.

Thats what was crappy here... the prices were high, the projected revenue wasn't great. The _only_ thing the HF batch 1 offer had going for it was a layered stack of assurances that it was reasonably unrisky— refunds, mpp, (near)state of the art process, an experienced design house, located in silicon valley, a late announcement with near impending shipping (they initially seemed to be saying they weren't going to take preorders, but ultimately they did). I think this contributes to people not being happy about the current situation: We weren't promised unicorns and rainbows and so didn't expect the risks that comes with chasing them.

Though I suppose some customers used crazy optimistic hashrate projections and thought they were going to make a mint... though I don't understand why anyone doing that hadn't already sunk their money on KNC. Smiley It certainly wasn't the case for everyone. I saw it as a moderately low risk way that I could upgrade my mining farm to 28nm and continue mining as increased hashrates drove my avalons into non-profitability over power costs... and now they're asking people to lock in an 86% loss. ... perhaps even trying to force it, if that unsolicited refund check wasn't a one off fluke.  (Easy for people to jump to that conclusion, since there is still a fighting chance that batch 1 + full MPP will be somewhat less of a loss than taking that refund check; assuming hope upon hope that this time the delivery timeframes are correct)

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January 14, 2014, 06:36:07 AM
 #6960

as increased hashrates drove my avalons into non-profitability over power costs...

Really? I mean, seriously?
I can offer to take this burden of a business of you, free of charge if you wish!
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