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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 865287 times)
Phinnaeus Gage
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January 15, 2014, 12:28:00 PM
 #7101

Eduardo/Icebreaker must be shitting his pants over all of this

That's what the brothers-in-each-other's-arms deserve for running what will always be remembered as a skro-penis-pump-and-dump scheme.
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January 15, 2014, 12:33:48 PM
 #7102

you never been to court have you?   fight the battles that you can win not ones you want to win.. in fact anything you know you can't win you shouldn't even bring up.  Go after what they said in the early refund responses
They attorneys taking it on contingency on the amounts above and beyond the offered settlements sure don't seem to agree with you. Everyone can also see the clear and explicit promises of 1:1 Bitcoin refunds both in public and in private communications. By all means, anyone who somehow didn't get the message that 1:1 refunds on failure were part of the deal and didn't make their purchasing decision because of it: take the settlement— leave the assets for the recovery of those of us who relied on the original terms.

You missed what I said..  I said go for what they said in the early refund replies..  which was what you say.  I am just saying don't think they advertised the selling of the miners at btc prices. They never posted that like Avalon did.
 Should just harp on what they promised as refunds in full btc.

Why give them an area for them to make a case..  just focus on the refund side of the promise


At the most basic level the courts are bound to uphold what is fair and right... they will do this though it usually takes a while.
$5,600 back in August does equal $5,600 today in us dollars, sort of... Which, for all intensive purposes, is what it is as the USD is the coin of the realm.  So, for this part I am saying that you can take the refund (offer) as it stands and be happy, or try door #2

#2  Now let me be clear, this likely does not apply to all of you:
If you have in your possession a written sales agreement, signed, that has all the transactions listed in btc and can prove with transaction records that you compensated them for the trade in btc you have a good case.

Again, contract law is very specific.  If I agree in writing to trade you ten magic beans for a unicorn and the contract guarantees a refund of said beans, in this case which has been both expressed, and implied from HF Admin repeatedly {btc=beans}, then when my unicorn don't show I shall have my beans, not any beans, my magic beans.

Point of order:  A contractual agreement was entered into by two parties, one party is in breach of contract. End of story; to what extent the courts will decide.

The fact that these are dated products, meaning their value rapidly decreases in a short amount of time, is also a compensable argument.


BTW, best hope that the San Francisco judge doesn't have a twinkie in his eye, otherwise Team Skropenis wins.
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January 15, 2014, 03:03:11 PM
 #7103

So it looks like we got scammed and now the lawyers and judge will go after hashfast

Bitcoinica still has not given me 50% of my claim of 600 BTC
INTERSANGO can go down with bitcoinica for abandoning customers
Alberto Armandi is a SCAMMER
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January 15, 2014, 03:28:37 PM
 #7104

fedex just called and told me they've got a letter for me that they were unable to deliver, because it's adressed to

(my name)
650 castro street
(zip & city, etc)

which hasn't got the slightest bit to do with my real street adress. of course. i'll let them deliver that thing to my real adress tomorrow, but i guess it will a "plus one" for the "refund cheque scam"-list. (batch 1 customer, located in germany, paid in btc, requested refund in btc. same old.)

just to let you know. if someone's keeping track.
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January 15, 2014, 03:53:19 PM
 #7105

So they used this imaginary castro street as your very shipping address?  Cheesy
(if it's arriving in EU one day later, they are using international priority, not international economy, whatever the meaning of that)

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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January 15, 2014, 04:00:42 PM
 #7106

So they used this imaginary castro street as your very shipping address?  Cheesy
at least that's what the lady on the phone told me, yes. i'll see for sure tomorrow .. Smiley
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January 15, 2014, 04:02:32 PM
 #7107

If someone wants to met their lawyer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESlqyC1evLg

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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January 15, 2014, 04:42:10 PM
 #7108

So Hashfast really decided to take money and run?

Anyone ever get a response from these people? Their phone number (800)609-3445 seems to lead to an 'answering service'

All contributions gratefully received 1G6Wia22Jnpz2DUisA5EoAC6KJ7MHm6QyP
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January 15, 2014, 04:46:59 PM
 #7109

So Hashfast really decided to take money and run?
Anyone ever get a response from these people? Their phone number (800)609-3445 seems to lead to an 'answering service'
I would not jump to that conclusion since they are refunding Batch 1 people (worldwide) that paid with bitcoin.   They are not refunding people that paid with US $, so it might just be something a lawyer has suggested they do to limit liability.
DeadTerra reported machines being delivered.


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January 15, 2014, 04:52:51 PM
 #7110

So Hashfast really decided to take money and run?
Anyone ever get a response from these people? Their phone number (800)609-3445 seems to lead to an 'answering service'
I would not jump to that conclusion since they are refunding Batch 1 people (worldwide) that paid with bitcoin.   They are not refunding people that paid with US $, so it might just be something a lawyer has suggested they do to limit liability.
DeadTerra reported machines being delivered.

Well you two are confusing.

Do you have a link to DT showing the machines delivered?

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January 15, 2014, 05:02:47 PM
 #7111

So Hashfast really decided to take money and run?
Anyone ever get a response from these people? Their phone number (800)609-3445 seems to lead to an 'answering service'
I would not jump to that conclusion since they are refunding Batch 1 people (worldwide) that paid with bitcoin.   They are not refunding people that paid with US $, so it might just be something a lawyer has suggested they do to limit liability.
DeadTerra reported machines being delivered.
Well you two are confusing.
Do you have a link to DT showing the machines delivered?
Strange indeed.  Here is the link to the DeadTerra quote I posted a few pages back.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4516249#msg4516249


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January 15, 2014, 05:16:04 PM
 #7112

So Hashfast really decided to take money and run?
Anyone ever get a response from these people? Their phone number (800)609-3445 seems to lead to an 'answering service'
I would not jump to that conclusion since they are refunding Batch 1 people (worldwide) that paid with bitcoin.   They are not refunding people that paid with US $, so it might just be something a lawyer has suggested they do to limit liability.
DeadTerra reported machines being delivered.
Well you two are confusing.
Do you have a link to DT showing the machines delivered?
Strange indeed.  Here is the link to the DeadTerra quote I posted a few pages back.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4516249#msg4516249

Just sample machines though, it doesn't sound like they're getting the PH+ they were promising.

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January 15, 2014, 05:46:36 PM
 #7113

Still interested in any reports from the wild of cases where "forced refunds" are issued, either for people who paid in USD or for people who are not Batch 1 (regardless of form of payment).

It's not really my thing, but I think you guys that paid BTC in Batch 1 ought not to fall for their terminology.  Don't call those checks "refunds", call them "unsolicited attempted buyouts" ("UABs") or something like that.  Winning the terminological battle can be important.
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January 15, 2014, 06:01:14 PM
 #7114

Since it appears we have verified cases where people received a USD check as a settlement, when they
- Requested a BTC refund
- Didn't request a refund at all (through the form they issued)

For such people, the check is thus just an unsollicited donation from Hashfast.
I was wondering, how long do you have before the check expires? I think in france you have 1 year to cash it in...

So just keep the check, resolve the dispute by getting a full BTC refund as promised in the ToS you agreed to.
And when you have the BTC back, cash the check in to cover for the hassle!  Grin

[OVER] RIDDLES 2nd edition --- this was claimed. Look out for 3rd edition!
I won't ever ask for a loan nor offer any escrow service. If I do, please consider my account as hacked.
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January 15, 2014, 06:12:44 PM
 #7115

Since it appears we have verified cases where people received a USD check as a settlement, when they
- Requested a BTC refund
- Didn't request a refund at all (through the form they issued)

For such people, the check is thus just an unsollicited donation from Hashfast.
I was wondering, how long do you have before the check expires? I think in france you have 1 year to cash it in...

So just keep the check, resolve the dispute by getting a full BTC refund as promised in the ToS you agreed to.
And when you have the BTC back, cash the check in to cover for the hassle!  Grin
You will likely be required to surrender the uncashed draft or it would be deducted from the settlement.
In the US, in general, a draft (check) is only good for 6 months before it expires and becomes a 'dead draft'; please note that each bank follows different policy however the aforementioned is the usual.
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January 15, 2014, 06:58:46 PM
 #7116

Since it appears we have verified cases where people received a USD check as a settlement, when they
- Requested a BTC refund
- Didn't request a refund at all (through the form they issued)

For such people, the check is thus just an unsollicited donation from Hashfast.
I was wondering, how long do you have before the check expires? I think in france you have 1 year to cash it in...

So just keep the check, resolve the dispute by getting a full BTC refund as promised in the ToS you agreed to.
And when you have the BTC back, cash the check in to cover for the hassle!  Grin

I'm sure you're joking, but remember, just because they are criminals, it doesn't mean you have to be a criminal as well.

Checks are only good as long as they are backed anyways, if hashfast gets to the point where they have to go to court over a thousand cases of btc refunds, they will be fleeing the country with that 5000btc they have
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January 15, 2014, 07:05:14 PM
 #7117

I'm sure you're joking, but remember, just because they are criminals, it doesn't mean you have to be a criminal as well.

Checks are only good as long as they are backed anyways, if hashfast gets to the point where they have to go to court over a thousand cases of btc refunds, they will be fleeing the country with that 5000btc they have

How is it criminal to cash in a donation that they sent to you out of the blue?
Anyway, I wasn't 100% serious either, you're right. Wink

Back to serious stuff, if anyone needs the full original ToS page (the htm, and all sattelite files including the .css, .js, etc.), just shoot a PM to me.

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January 15, 2014, 08:45:44 PM
 #7118

http://www.citizen.org/documents/ACF110A.PDF

Arbitration is expensive. More expensive than lawsuits. Guess it makes sense to do mass action. Contact fenwick. Except I have certain trust issues - Occam's Razor helps.

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January 15, 2014, 08:54:10 PM
 #7119

To Me it sounds like they may have just royally screwed themselves and sent you guys a whole bunch of money to pay your Attorney with to get your BTC back... Wouldn't that be ironic  Shocked
You know what's is ironic? My hidden abilities to detect sockpuppets, that are ironic.

Yes everyone, please cash out the check to pay for your lawyer. Moare BTC for me.

Btw, when my lawyer said not to do so, i've answered him that i'm stupid, yes, but not that stupid. So let's see who falls for it.

Re: people who requested a USD refund that paid with USD and they have yet to receive it, good luck with that contract you signed.

So later batches are likely to get the very same treatment.

I really want to see if they have the courage to expose themselves to that kind of legal procedures for the following batches as well. If they do so it means that we are all stupid, and that there is something like 1% of the customers requesting a proper refund.
You misquoted, that is Gandalf, not me.

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PuertoLibre
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January 15, 2014, 09:06:25 PM
 #7120

Thoughts?
Yes, HF's lawyer would be a problem. He has a good reputation.
I think the facts of the transactions are the real problems.

Even their lawyer can't perform miracles. They can only delay, obfuscate and confuse the issues.

As long as you know what was said/promised, this is relatively easy.

=======================

They promised (in writing) and (as self represented) a refund in multiple avenues of a specific type and condition.

Even if they shake their lawyer in the hopes that he will come up with something....he's probably just gonna go for "persuasion".

Those checks in the mail probably aren't HF's ideas. They are probably the lawyers ideas on how to get around the impossible scenario they have gotten themselves into. The silence that followed is probably the extra Advice for HF's employees and representatives to follow. Lest they get themselves even deeper into shitstorms.

All speculation of course, no actual reason to say otherwise though.

I'm not an expert on US law, but where I'm from you can cash a cheque & still remain able to claim the remainder of what you claim to be owed.  

You have to reply to them promptly in writing (make sure to date and photocopy the letter before sending it) saying "I have received your cheque as partial payment against the $xxx/BTCxxx owing to me as a refund from non-delivery of my [product name]. Please promptly pay the remainder outstanding, which is $xxx/BTCxxx."  If you want you might also give them a deadline after which you will charge (a reasonable) rate of interest.  Obviously, if you're claiming BTC back you will need to show how you have calculated their USD payment against the BTC balance.

Meanwhile, cash the cheque before they realize what you've done & stop payment.

I'm not a lawyer, but i did study fair trade law to 300 level at uni & there was case law supporting this. I'm sure there will be a similar law/precedent in the US but you should probably check to make sure. Again, not 100% positive about the US, but this worked in a case even where the cheque was sent with a note saying it was "final payment". It could be a way to play Hashfast at their own game.
You could do that, but that just adds an immense complication.

You'd be better off writing the letter first and giving them notice and wait for their response. (while not cashing the cheque.)

Still interested in any reports from the wild of cases where "forced refunds" are issued, either for people who paid in USD or for people who are not Batch 1 (regardless of form of payment).

It's not really my thing, but I think you guys that paid BTC in Batch 1 ought not to fall for their terminology.  Don't call those checks "refunds", call them "unsolicited attempted buyouts" ("UABs") or something like that.  Winning the terminological battle can be important.
Follow this guys advice.

You should probably also stop calling your BTC money and consider calling it "a transfer of property" while you are at it.

A property which inherent value is worth XXX,XXX USD.

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