HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s

[gmaxwell]

you never been to court have you?   fight the battles that you can win not ones you want to win.. in fact anything you know you can't win you shouldn't even bring up.  Go after what they said in the early refund responses

They attorneys taking it on contingency on the amounts above and beyond the offered settlements sure don't seem to agree with you. Everyone can also see the clear and explicit promises of 1:1 Bitcoin refunds both in public and in private communications. By all means, anyone who somehow didn't get the message that 1:1 refunds on failure were part of the deal and didn't make their purchasing decision because of it: take the settlement— leave the assets for the recovery of those of us who relied on the original terms.

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[Gandalfs Mentor]

To Me it sounds like they may have just royally screwed themselves and sent you guys a whole bunch of money to pay your Attorney with to get your BTC back... Wouldn't that be ironic  

so it means that we are all stupid, and that there is something like 1% of the customers requesting a proper refund.

Legal processes in the states are tricky but contract law is extremely explicit for US citizens; generally covers the Brothers and Sisters North of us pretty well and to some extent the ones South also.  Those overseas might have some difficulty.  What's the buyoff, like 2,500 Pounds
http://www.easyvectors.com/assets/images/vectors/vmvectors/palm-tree-6.jpg

[DPoS]

you never been to court have you?   fight the battles that you can win not ones you want to win.. in fact anything you know you can't win you shouldn't even bring up.  Go after what they said in the early refund responses

They attorneys taking it on contingency on the amounts above and beyond the offered settlements sure don't seem to agree with you. Everyone can also see the clear and explicit promises of 1:1 Bitcoin refunds both in public and in private communications. By all means, anyone who somehow didn't get the message that 1:1 refunds on failure were part of the deal and didn't make their purchasing decision because of it: take the settlement— leave the assets for the recovery of those of us who relied on the original terms.

You missed what I said..  I said go for what they said in the early refund replies..  which was what you say.  I am just saying don't think they advertised the selling of the miners at btc prices. They never posted that like Avalon did.
 Should just harp on what they promised as refunds in full btc.

Why give them an area for them to make a case..  just focus on the refund side of the promise

[VolanicEruptor]

Eduardo/Icebreaker must be shitting his pants over all of this

[cedivad]

Even the ToS are clear enough. Refund the payment. Payment: 100% BTC. Easy enough.

[dhenson]

Eduardo/Icebreaker must be shitting his pants over all of this

Seriously?  For every customer that doesn't have the fortitude to pursue legal recompense, he profits.  He will end up far better off in the long run by being a douche bag fraudster.

Fuck him and his entire team.

[yuriygeorge]

For those in the states, has anyone considered doing the arbitration yourself, without a lawyer? If the lawyers are taking a big cut, and if they lose would demand payment for services anyways, then I would think going without a lawyer may be a way to negotiate a better deal/compromise for yourself, or no? Thoughts?

[cedivad]

Thoughts?

Yes, HF's lawyer would be a problem. He has a good reputation.

[Gandalfs Mentor]

you never been to court have you?   fight the battles that you can win not ones you want to win.. in fact anything you know you can't win you shouldn't even bring up.  Go after what they said in the early refund responses

They attorneys taking it on contingency on the amounts above and beyond the offered settlements sure don't seem to agree with you. Everyone can also see the clear and explicit promises of 1:1 Bitcoin refunds both in public and in private communications. By all means, anyone who somehow didn't get the message that 1:1 refunds on failure were part of the deal and didn't make their purchasing decision because of it: take the settlement— leave the assets for the recovery of those of us who relied on the original terms.

You missed what I said..  I said go for what they said in the early refund replies..  which was what you say.  I am just saying don't think they advertised the selling of the miners at btc prices. They never posted that like Avalon did.
 Should just harp on what they promised as refunds in full btc.

Why give them an area for them to make a case..  just focus on the refund side of the promise

At the most basic level the courts are bound to uphold what is fair and right... they will do this though it usually takes a while.
$5,600 back in August does equal $5,600 today in us dollars, sort of... Which, for all intensive purposes, is what it is as the USD is the coin of the realm.  So, for this part I am saying that you can take the refund (offer) as it stands and be happy, or try door #2

#2  Now let me be clear, this likely does not apply to all of you:
If you have in your possession a written sales agreement, signed, that has all the transactions listed in btc and can prove with transaction records that you compensated them for the trade in btc you have a good case.

Again, contract law is very specific.  If I agree in writing to trade you ten magic beans for a unicorn and the contract guarantees a refund of said beans, in this case which has been both expressed, and implied from HF Admin repeatedly {btc=beans}, then when my unicorn don't show I shall have my beans, not any beans, my magic beans.

Point of order:  A contractual agreement was entered into by two parties, one party is in breach of contract. End of story; to what extent the courts will decide.

The fact that these are dated products, meaning their value rapidly decreases in a short amount of time, is also a compensable argument.

[Gandalfs Mentor]

For those in the states, has anyone considered doing the arbitration yourself, without a lawyer? If the lawyers are taking a big cut, and if they lose would demand payment for services anyways, then I would think going without a lawyer may be a way to negotiate a better deal/compromise for yourself, or no? Thoughts?

Very strongly not recommended!!!

Ever hear the saying he who represents himself has a fool for a client...

The world of law is another dimension wherein they speak words that sound like English but have totally different meanings, they even have their own dictionary, go figure...

[joshv06]

you never been to court have you?   fight the battles that you can win not ones you want to win.. in fact anything you know you can't win you shouldn't even bring up.  Go after what they said in the early refund responses

They attorneys taking it on contingency on the amounts above and beyond the offered settlements sure don't seem to agree with you. Everyone can also see the clear and explicit promises of 1:1 Bitcoin refunds both in public and in private communications. By all means, anyone who somehow didn't get the message that 1:1 refunds on failure were part of the deal and didn't make their purchasing decision because of it: take the settlement— leave the assets for the recovery of those of us who relied on the original terms.

You missed what I said..  I said go for what they said in the early refund replies..  which was what you say.  I am just saying don't think they advertised the selling of the miners at btc prices. They never posted that like Avalon did.
 Should just harp on what they promised as refunds in full btc.

Why give them an area for them to make a case..  just focus on the refund side of the promise

Which, for all intensive purposes

*for all intents and purposes.

[iikun]

I'm not an expert on US law, but where I'm from you can cash a cheque & still remain able to claim the remainder of what you claim to be owed. 

You have to reply to them promptly in writing (make sure to date and photocopy the letter before sending it) saying "I have received your cheque as partial payment against the $xxx/BTCxxx owing to me as a refund from non-delivery of my [product name]. Please promptly pay the remainder outstanding, which is $xxx/BTCxxx."  If you want you might also give them a deadline after which you will charge (a reasonable) rate of interest.  Obviously, if you're claiming BTC back you will need to show how you have calculated their USD payment against the BTC balance.

Meanwhile, cash the cheque before they realize what you've done & stop payment.

I'm not a lawyer, but i did study fair trade law to 300 level at uni & there was case law supporting this. I'm sure there will be a similar law/precedent in the US but you should probably check to make sure. Again, not 100% positive about the US, but this worked in a case even where the cheque was sent with a note saying it was "final payment". It could be a way to play Hashfast at their own game.

[fenwick]

This will sound a tad repetitive, but here we go anyway:

Also arbitration seems to have a number of downsides:

Arbitration may be subject to pressures from powerful law firms representing the stronger and wealthier party

In some arbitration agreements, the parties are required to pay for the arbitrators, which adds an additional layer of legal cost that can be prohibitive, especially in small consumer disputes

In some arbitration agreements and systems, the recovery of attorneys' fees is unavailable, making it difficult or impossible for consumers or employees to get legal representation

Never been through an arbitration process before so any advice would be appreciated.

OK. Free advice: please join the mass action I am organizing, so that we can have our experienced lawyer handle this mess, and fight back against their legal hitman. (I don't think novices stand a chance here.)

For those in the states, has anyone considered doing the arbitration yourself, without a lawyer? If the lawyers are taking a big cut, and if they lose would demand payment for services anyways, then I would think going without a lawyer may be a way to negotiate a better deal/compromise for yourself, or no? Thoughts?

In my opinion, if you are going with a lawyer, then despite the fact that I think we have a perfectly valid case, you are likely to loose, because they have an expert on their side, and you have nothing. (Just the facts, but that is only one part of the equation.)

Thoughts?

Yes, HF's lawyer would be a problem. He has a good reputation.

Yes. (And by "good", here we mean that he is effective.)

For those in the states, has anyone considered doing the arbitration yourself, without a lawyer? If the lawyers are taking a big cut, and if they lose would demand payment for services anyways, then I would think going without a lawyer may be a way to negotiate a better deal/compromise for yourself, or no? Thoughts?

Very strongly not recommended!!!

Ever hear the saying he who represents himself has a fool for a client...

The world of law is another dimension wherein they speak words that sound like English but have totally different meanings, they even have their own dictionary, go figure...

+1

[cedivad]

2) Contact an arbitrator in the S.F. CA area.

Isn't the arbitrator(s) chosen between a common pool of possible arbitrators agreed between the parties? Why are you contacting a single arbitrator? Just for some suggestions on how to proceed?

Have a nice 15th of January everyone!

[Ytterbium]

I got the same letter and refund check...

Want to know the kicker?

I never filled out a refund request (in any form).

They are FORCING REFUNDS for batch1.

Expect your letter whether you want it or not.  We now get to enjoy the forced 90% loss of investment plus the tax hit.

Forced USD refunds?!

That would put a whole new dimension to this.

Now they're just straight up stealing 90% of people's bitcoin.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Eduardo/Icebreaker must be shitting his pants over all of this

That's what the brothers-in-each-other's-arms deserve for running what will always be remembered as a skro-penis-pump-and-dump scheme.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

you never been to court have you?   fight the battles that you can win not ones you want to win.. in fact anything you know you can't win you shouldn't even bring up.  Go after what they said in the early refund responses

They attorneys taking it on contingency on the amounts above and beyond the offered settlements sure don't seem to agree with you. Everyone can also see the clear and explicit promises of 1:1 Bitcoin refunds both in public and in private communications. By all means, anyone who somehow didn't get the message that 1:1 refunds on failure were part of the deal and didn't make their purchasing decision because of it: take the settlement— leave the assets for the recovery of those of us who relied on the original terms.

You missed what I said..  I said go for what they said in the early refund replies..  which was what you say.  I am just saying don't think they advertised the selling of the miners at btc prices. They never posted that like Avalon did.
 Should just harp on what they promised as refunds in full btc.

Why give them an area for them to make a case..  just focus on the refund side of the promise

At the most basic level the courts are bound to uphold what is fair and right... they will do this though it usually takes a while.
$5,600 back in August does equal $5,600 today in us dollars, sort of... Which, for all intensive purposes, is what it is as the USD is the coin of the realm.  So, for this part I am saying that you can take the refund (offer) as it stands and be happy, or try door #2

#2  Now let me be clear, this likely does not apply to all of you:
If you have in your possession a written sales agreement, signed, that has all the transactions listed in btc and can prove with transaction records that you compensated them for the trade in btc you have a good case.

Again, contract law is very specific.  If I agree in writing to trade you ten magic beans for a unicorn and the contract guarantees a refund of said beans, in this case which has been both expressed, and implied from HF Admin repeatedly {btc=beans}, then when my unicorn don't show I shall have my beans, not any beans, my magic beans.

Point of order:  A contractual agreement was entered into by two parties, one party is in breach of contract. End of story; to what extent the courts will decide.

The fact that these are dated products, meaning their value rapidly decreases in a short amount of time, is also a compensable argument.

BTW, best hope that the San Francisco judge doesn't have a twinkie in his eye, otherwise Team Skropenis wins.

[dopamine]

So it looks like we got scammed and now the lawyers and judge will go after hashfast

[frank93]

fedex just called and told me they've got a letter for me that they were unable to deliver, because it's adressed to

(my name)
650 castro street
(zip & city, etc)

which hasn't got the slightest bit to do with my real street adress. of course. i'll let them deliver that thing to my real adress tomorrow, but i guess it will a "plus one" for the "refund cheque scam"-list. (batch 1 customer, located in germany, paid in btc, requested refund in btc. same old.)

just to let you know. if someone's keeping track.

[cedivad]

So they used this imaginary castro street as your very shipping address?  
(if it's arriving in EU one day later, they are using international priority, not international economy, whatever the meaning of that)