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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 875472 times)
defcon23
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January 17, 2014, 05:37:15 PM
 #7281

I don't know if there is an equivelent body in USA, b


Welcome to Scamerica!!!  

You can joke all you want with this, but on second thought it is rather odd consumers in the biggest consumer market in the world are not protected more from such a things. I understand freedom of trade, free markets, weak state, and all this stuff, but believe me this is close to impossible to happen anywhere else. We scream constantly to overblown state mechanisms in my country, and state bureaucracy blown out of proportions, but I'm pretty certain anywhere else this things would end by state clerks all over the HF back. It's also odd that scam of these proportions is not all over the media, they should love such a juicy stories. How often multi-million dollar scams are there in the USA for this to go unnoticed?

It's the bitcoin aspect that screws up consumer protections.  If it wasn't present, there would be more obvious recourse to that kind of complaint, and they'd stand a better chance of success.  

But, if you put yourself in the shoes of a bureaucrat, you're kind of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" here.  The "community" is loud and clear that bitcoin does not want regulation, but the "community" also has problems with dishonest and incompetent hardware manufacturers.  From the federal level, there is bascially a policy vacuum, because the feds haven't figured out if and how to deal with it, and they are kind of signalling 'hands off', like the "community" says it wants.

So if you wade into this as a low or mid-level bureaucrat of the sort that might typically try to enforce consumer protection laws, you're probably going to get your head chopped off and be accused of overreaching.  And you are probably saying to yourself, "heh, those guys, so proud of their independence and insulting the government all the time, now look who's crying? ... why should I stick my neck out for them?  Most of them say I'm irrelevant, until they run into @ssholes like BFL and Hashfast. Well, sorry fellas, it's time you grew up and gave us more respect. Here's a lesson for you."

Yea, I think certainly the 'no forced refunds' aspect is dangerous for consumers. That, coupled with the meteoric rise in BTC prices has meant there's a huge lure for unscrupulous people to get their scams in.

If enough of these scams go on and people will give up on bitcoin. It's just too easy to be ripped off.

What I find ironic about this (and everyone else who's complaining) is the fact that so many people cried for the longest time about BFL and about how "You are required to give refunds if you don't ship in 30 days, the FTC says so!!!!!!1!1!" (which is wrong, by the way, but whatever) - now that it's happening, the same people are crying about receiving "forced refunds."  

So which is it, do you want forced refunds according to the commonly held misconception about the FTC or do you want your hardware? You can't have mutually exclusive results happening simultaneously.

inb4 "But this is different." ... It's not all that different than what BFL went through.  We had engineering problems, HF is having engineering problems.  I have no doubt Hashfast is working as fast as they can to get the product out the door and everyone at HF is having sleepless nights over it. I have no inside knowledge about it, obviously, but I can imagine what they are going through.  Could/can they handle things better? Yes, absolutely, just like there are many things about the sequence of events that BFL could have done better about.  Unfortunately, neither BFL nor Hashfast are large, multi-billion dollar corporations that have the resources to do that... we are a few people, bitcoin nerds mostly, trying to deliver a high demand product that grows exponentially before ones eyes.





poor josh ... let me shed a tear on your poor fate ...
obviously, you can only compare hashfast's logic to  your own company, because they are identical in the way to screwed your customers
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January 17, 2014, 05:44:00 PM
 #7282

Gulp! You may have a point, Josh.

No, he doesn't. The huge problem with Hashfast is they are sending forced USD refund checks to customers who did not request a refund, but they were promised BTC refunds. It is wrong is so many ways.

Buy & Hold
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January 17, 2014, 05:47:54 PM
 #7283

But... Poor startup can't do anything to help us, and you can clearly see that they are doing their best for the best interests of their customers!

(ironic, so that this post doesn't gets used against me)

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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January 17, 2014, 06:01:13 PM
 #7284

I don't know if there is an equivelent body in USA, b


Welcome to Scamerica!!!  

You can joke all you want with this, but on second thought it is rather odd consumers in the biggest consumer market in the world are not protected more from such a things. I understand freedom of trade, free markets, weak state, and all this stuff, but believe me this is close to impossible to happen anywhere else. We scream constantly to overblown state mechanisms in my country, and state bureaucracy blown out of proportions, but I'm pretty certain anywhere else this things would end by state clerks all over the HF back. It's also odd that scam of these proportions is not all over the media, they should love such a juicy stories. How often multi-million dollar scams are there in the USA for this to go unnoticed?

It's the bitcoin aspect that screws up consumer protections.  If it wasn't present, there would be more obvious recourse to that kind of complaint, and they'd stand a better chance of success.  

But, if you put yourself in the shoes of a bureaucrat, you're kind of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" here.  The "community" is loud and clear that bitcoin does not want regulation, but the "community" also has problems with dishonest and incompetent hardware manufacturers.  From the federal level, there is bascially a policy vacuum, because the feds haven't figured out if and how to deal with it, and they are kind of signalling 'hands off', like the "community" says it wants.

So if you wade into this as a low or mid-level bureaucrat of the sort that might typically try to enforce consumer protection laws, you're probably going to get your head chopped off and be accused of overreaching.  And you are probably saying to yourself, "heh, those guys, so proud of their independence and insulting the government all the time, now look who's crying? ... why should I stick my neck out for them?  Most of them say I'm irrelevant, until they run into @ssholes like BFL and Hashfast. Well, sorry fellas, it's time you grew up and gave us more respect. Here's a lesson for you."

Yea, I think certainly the 'no forced refunds' aspect is dangerous for consumers. That, coupled with the meteoric rise in BTC prices has meant there's a huge lure for unscrupulous people to get their scams in.

If enough of these scams go on and people will give up on bitcoin. It's just too easy to be ripped off.

What I find ironic about this (and everyone else who's complaining) is the fact that so many people cried for the longest time about BFL and about how "You are required to give refunds if you don't ship in 30 days, the FTC says so!!!!!!1!1!" (which is wrong, by the way, but whatever) - now that it's happening, the same people are crying about receiving "forced refunds."  

So which is it, do you want forced refunds according to the commonly held misconception about the FTC or do you want your hardware? You can't have mutually exclusive results happening simultaneously.

inb4 "But this is different." ... It's not all that different than what BFL went through.  We had engineering problems, HF is having engineering problems.  I have no doubt Hashfast is working as fast as they can to get the product out the door and everyone at HF is having sleepless nights over it. I have no inside knowledge about it, obviously, but I can imagine what they are going through.  Could/can they handle things better? Yes, absolutely, just like there are many things about the sequence of events that BFL could have done better about.  Unfortunately, neither BFL nor Hashfast are large, multi-billion dollar corporations that have the resources to do that... we are a few people, bitcoin nerds mostly, trying to deliver a high demand product that grows exponentially before ones eyes.




I would believe that, except we haven't heard so much as a "still working hard" post ANYWHERE from them in TWO WEEKS.

I'd be happy to say the glass was half full, but it's hard to tell when HashFast took the glass to another room. We have no idea what's going on.
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January 17, 2014, 06:16:03 PM
 #7285

HashFast is just incompetent, from the start. They got in over excited, over promising, and when time started running out, their incompetency got worse, almost pathetic. Now, they're hiding under a lawyer, quiet as a rock. Maybe, well-natured from the start, but incompetent. Young and inexperienced in the world of Bitcoin. I remember someone at HashFast was trying to convince a veteran miner on Skype that "who cares, the USD rate is going up like crazy!" not realizing that the exchange rate is irrelevant in mining as one could just hold on to the coins.

And then I asked one of the employees "Didn't you plan for the possibility of fluctuating BTC/USD price"? They said well "How can you possibly hedge?" Lol, if you didn't have a strategy on how to properly hedge, then why the hell are you making the full btc refund promises in the first place? Just plain incompetent. It's sad, really, I almost feel bad for them. The only thing they got going for them is Deception, but that's not working out for them, either.

Warren Buffet Quote: "Those who won't fill your pockets will fill your ears." That's what HashFast's been doing from the start.

###

Question remains: How will it develop further?

I reckon it will go like this.
We here at Scamfast have decided you all paid 6k per baby jet not this mystical 50 btc,
so your MPP = 6k or 6btc so we will send you out 1 extra chip with 2 cores disabled or if you had the upgrade kit no MMP will be required.

MT GOX, WE.exchange (WE.Scam), BFL (Brutally Fkn Last), Hashfast (ScamFast), IceDrill (Licedrill),
No wonder the governments don't like Bitcoin with all these parasites
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January 17, 2014, 06:20:25 PM
 #7286

But... Poor startup can't do anything to help us, and you can clearly see that they are doing their best for the best interests of their customers!

(ironic, so that this post doesn't gets used against me)

I know, the harsh light of your hypocrisy is bright and blindingly painful. You'll get over it.


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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January 17, 2014, 06:23:33 PM
 #7287

But... Poor startup can't do anything to help us, and you can clearly see that they are doing their best for the best interests of their customers!

(ironic, so that this post doesn't gets used against me)
I know, the harsh light of your hypocrisy is bright and blindingly painful. You'll get over it.
Once that i will have my money back and/or made a company to close and sent a few people in prison yes, i will get over it.

You are a lucky guy, Josh.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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January 17, 2014, 07:06:28 PM
 #7288

I am the buyer of a baby jet batch 2,
Someone I could say that I order the return date of the money?
Pay in dollars, not in bitcoins and I want my money back

thank you very much!

"Those who won't fill your pockets will fill your ears."
Warren Buffet
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January 17, 2014, 07:22:41 PM
 #7289

I am the buyer of a baby jet batch 2,
Someone I could say that I order the return date of the money?
Pay in dollars, not in bitcoins and I want my money back

thank you very much!

Same here. 
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January 17, 2014, 07:33:05 PM
 #7290

Got a unsolicited stupid USD refund and did not recieve my BTC back, should I cash the cheque? And request for the rest of my refund to be paid in BTC and which lawyer are people using?

Bitcoinica still has not given me 50% of my claim of 600 BTC
INTERSANGO can go down with bitcoinica for abandoning customers
Alberto Armandi is a SCAMMER
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January 17, 2014, 07:34:22 PM
 #7291

I am the buyer of a baby jet batch 2,
Someone I could say that I order the return date of the money?
Pay in dollars, not in bitcoins and I want my money back

thank you very much!

Same here. 

thanks for playing guys...  go buy some valentine gifts and forget you ever heard of bitcoins!

~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
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January 17, 2014, 07:35:20 PM
 #7292

"Man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal." -Heinlein

BFL (Josh) & HF are rationalizing the situation one way, customers are rationalizing it the other.

However there is no need to rationalize. We have a sales contract with clear terms. All that needs to happen is for both parties to live up to their obligations as stated in the ToS and Order Confirmation. No more, no less.
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January 17, 2014, 07:44:15 PM
 #7293

Warren Buffet Quote: "Those who won't fill your pockets will fill your ears." That's what HashFast's been doing from the start.

###

Question remains: How will it develop further?

I predict they're going to make as many machines as possible and divvy up what they have to the customers. Not everyone will get their machines or all their machines that they ordered on time. It'll keep getting pushed back but eventually you'll get it. People who cashed their USD refunds won't get anything. Just because you received a check doesn't mean they're forcing a refund; I think it's there as bait for you to take. They'd much rather you take it than deal with potential claims. (If you pursue a claim, and if you win, I think it'll take you awhile if at all for them to actually pay you out, but I think it will put pressure on them to get you hardware at least). Batch 1 may get more than a BabyJet, but I doubt they'll get their full MPP right away or anytime soon. They'd be lucky to get a Sierra. To pay up BTC claims, if any, they'll prob have to self-mine (just my rational prediction, maybe with their own hardware). Personally, I'd rather fight to get my hardware then wait a long time to get their BTC claim.

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January 17, 2014, 08:30:19 PM
 #7294

What I find ironic about this (and everyone else who's complaining) is the fact that so many people cried for the longest time about BFL and about how "You are required to give refunds if you don't ship in 30 days, the FTC says so!!!!!!1!1!" (which is wrong, by the way, but whatever) - now that it's happening, the same people are crying about receiving "forced refunds."  

So which is it, do you want forced refunds according to the commonly held misconception about the FTC or do you want your hardware? You can't have mutually exclusive results happening simultaneously.

inb4 "But this is different." ... It's not all that different than what BFL went through.  We had engineering problems, HF is having engineering problems.  I have no doubt Hashfast is working as fast as they can to get the product out the door and everyone at HF is having sleepless nights over it. I have no inside knowledge about it, obviously, but I can imagine what they are going through.  Could/can they handle things better? Yes, absolutely, just like there are many things about the sequence of events that BFL could have done better about.  Unfortunately, neither BFL nor Hashfast are large, multi-billion dollar corporations that have the resources to do that... we are a few people, bitcoin nerds mostly, trying to deliver a high demand product that grows exponentially before ones eyes.

I hate to say it but Josh is the voice of reason here.  The thread is completely polluted too.   It would be VERY helpful if HF popped in and gave a bit of an update about the units they have shipped and what updates their boards need etc.
You need to have your ears checked.

BFL's Josh has pretty much done the same as HashFast.

--Disregarded emails from customers for (many times) month(s) at a time. A little money can fix that fact. (fact, go read their forums)
--Been unreachable through their phone system which often dumped people before reaching anyone. Again, a little money can fix this fact. (fact, go read their forums and this one)
--Refused customers their refunds when requested. (fact, look everywhere)
--Played games with their order processing status when customers asked for a refund. (fact, err I mean...they always claim..."a mistake")
--Generated shipping labels and notifications that had no immediate shipping reality behind them. (fact, go see either forum)
--Allegedly, shipped to larger customers first and out of queue in backdoor deals. (debateable, but believable)
--Shipped to customers (out of queue) when they complained about not recieving refunds, or requesting one. Then feined/displayed ignorance until they "became aware of the error". (fact, go to either forum.)

etc.

Don't believe anything said by Josh. His reality distortion field will mess you up inside.


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January 17, 2014, 08:32:05 PM
 #7295

And, if anybody is interested in a KinkLab review... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7b8pWoj2c

But that's not what I came here to post about. Somebody may need to copy the following video for posterity in case it ups and vanishes like so many other links associated with HashFast that has happened most recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfI70X78aLc

As seen, James Johnston posted a video about himself using the name Abram Kottmeier, soliciting a résumé while already on HashFast's payroll, teamed up with Skropenis.

Wow Phin, you really know how to dig shit up.
I really enjoy this 1.
Thank you to make me laughing again.
We all need it after the stress that HashLast has caused all of us to have sleepless nights.

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January 17, 2014, 08:39:11 PM
 #7296




poor josh ... let me shed a tear on your poor fate ...
obviously, you can only compare hashfast's logic to  your own company, because they are identical in the way to screwed your customers

As close to bingo as you can get.


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January 17, 2014, 08:40:17 PM
 #7297

The surreality of this thread just goes on and on and on.

Warning about Nitrogensports.eu
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=709114.0
Phinnaeus Gage
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January 17, 2014, 08:53:05 PM
 #7298

The surreality of this thread just goes on and on and on.

I haven't bother to hunt, but pretty sure I could fine a video on Playpen.com depicting Long Dong Johnston and Skropenis banging away Kathee, all three donning a pirate outfit, timestamped the same time Frick and Frack were supposed to be servicing their customers. Oh, wait! I guess they were all served when they paid for their Golden Nonce orders. The only thing left now is for them To Cum Together.
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January 17, 2014, 08:54:41 PM
 #7299

@Phin
Thank you for the jokes
0.1 Bitcoin donation sent to
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Tehfiend
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January 17, 2014, 09:00:59 PM
 #7300

What I find ironic about this (and everyone else who's complaining) is the fact that so many people cried for the longest time about BFL and about how "You are required to give refunds if you don't ship in 30 days, the FTC says so!!!!!!1!1!" (which is wrong, by the way, but whatever) - now that it's happening, the same people are crying about receiving "forced refunds."  

So which is it, do you want forced refunds according to the commonly held misconception about the FTC or do you want your hardware? You can't have mutually exclusive results happening simultaneously.

inb4 "But this is different." ... It's not all that different than what BFL went through.  We had engineering problems, HF is having engineering problems.  I have no doubt Hashfast is working as fast as they can to get the product out the door and everyone at HF is having sleepless nights over it. I have no inside knowledge about it, obviously, but I can imagine what they are going through.  Could/can they handle things better? Yes, absolutely, just like there are many things about the sequence of events that BFL could have done better about.  Unfortunately, neither BFL nor Hashfast are large, multi-billion dollar corporations that have the resources to do that... we are a few people, bitcoin nerds mostly, trying to deliver a high demand product that grows exponentially before ones eyes.

Any time you come to these forums spouting your typical BS I feel obligated to refute it for those that might not be aware of all the facts. You can blame the massive BTC loss the majority of BFL customers experienced on "engineering problems" but the fact is that you intentionally misled your customers about the true nature of those engineering problems and their effect and your schedule. Either that or you are completely incompetent as anybody can go through all of your public posts/updates to see that either you were blatantly misleading/lying or just had absolutely no idea what you were talking about. There's no third option involving "engineering problems" as shown by how quickly both Avalon and KNC were able to bring ASIC's to market. HF would have to be another 6+ months late with dozens of "2 more weeks!" to come even close to the level of failure BFL exhibited. You don't have to be a billion dollar company to be honest with your customers...
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