HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s

[iCEBREAKER]

The only reasonable interpretation of "BTC refunds" is a refund of the purchase price (which was always in USD) via BTC as a medium of exchange.

Other interpretations are not reasonable because they would imply a windfall in the event of BTC appreciation or a loss in the event of BTC depreciation, neither of which are logical, much less legally permissible.

If you chose to seek to take advantage of a "very stupid" and "very risky" interpretation because you are greedy, you got what you deserved.   

"Full BTC Refunds" isn't interpretable in any way. It is what it is no matter how much shit you can eat!

Au contraire, the facts of recent history demonstrate ample confusion over the conflicting interpretations, as well as the superiority of the reasonable and legal one.

"Full" means the full purchase price, which was always in USD.  "BTC" means BTC are provided as a pro rata substitute exchange medium for USD.

Your pouty stubborn foot stomping, butthurt anger, and resulting scatological insults only emphasize the paucity of your intellect and argument.   

[Micky25]

you seem to be one of these (most of the time very young, delusional or in a state called 'denial of reality') persons, which believe, if they repeat something again and again, it will magically become reality/truth.

Many showed you this many times, will you be able to comprehend one day?

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Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your patience while I got the answer for you, I greatly appreciate it.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

I hope that helps and hope you have a good weekend!

Thanks,
Cara

[RoadStress]

The only reasonable interpretation of "BTC refunds" is a refund of the purchase price (which was always in USD) via BTC as a medium of exchange.

Other interpretations are not reasonable because they would imply a windfall in the event of BTC appreciation or a loss in the event of BTC depreciation, neither of which are logical, much less legally permissible.

If you chose to seek to take advantage of a "very stupid" and "very risky" interpretation because you are greedy, you got what you deserved.   

"Full BTC Refunds" isn't interpretable in any way. It is what it is no matter how much shit you can eat!

Au contraire, the facts of recent history demonstrate ample confusion over the conflicting interpretations, as well as the superiority of the reasonable and legal one.

"Full" means the full purchase price, which was always in USD.  "BTC" means BTC are provided as a pro rata substitute exchange medium for USD.

Your pouty stubborn foot stomping, butthurt anger, and resulting scatological insults only emphasize the paucity of your intellect and argument.   

Cara disagrees with you!

[jimmothy]

you seem to be one of these (most of the time very young, delusional or in a state called 'denial of reality') persons, which believe, if they repeat something very often, it will magically become reality/truth.

Many showed you this many times, will you be able to comprehend one day?

received: by 10.194.138.199 with SMTP id qs7csp90853wjb;
        Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.236.45.102 with SMTP id o66mr196684yhb.13.1376696316262;
        Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <bitpaysupport@hashfast.com>

Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your patience while I got the answer for you, I greatly appreciate it.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

I hope that helps and hope you have a good weekend!

Thanks,
Cara

You guys are just giving icebreaker permission to once again spew verbal diarrhea with these cyclical arguments.

Fact is that HF offerred full btc refunds ONLY to aquire more customers.

They did not intend on actually giving the full btc refunds unless they made a profit doing so. (If the price of btc drops). They were gambling on the exchange rate and they lost.

According to icebreaker it's your fault for not being a psychic who would have known from the start that they are greedy scammers who don't give a rats ass about a contract but everyone else will agree it's not the victims fault.

This whole argument about btc vs usd refunds is pointless because hashfast could would not do either.

Hashfast is a fraud for losing 100% of their customers preorder money when production costs should have been no more than 10%. Simple as that.

[iCEBREAKER]

you seem to be one of these (most of the time very young, delusional or in a state called 'denial of reality') persons, which believe, if they repeat something very often, it will magically become reality/truth.

Many showed you this many times, will you be able to comprehend one day?

received: by 10.194.138.199 with SMTP id qs7csp90853wjb;
        Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.236.45.102 with SMTP id o66mr196684yhb.13.1376696316262;
        Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <bitpaysupport@hashfast.com>

Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your patience while I got the answer for you, I greatly appreciate it.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

I hope that helps and hope you have a good weekend!

Thanks,
Cara

You guys are just giving icebreaker permission to once again spew verbal diarrhea with these cyclical arguments.

Fact is that HF offerred full btc refunds ONLY to aquire more customers.

They did not intend on actually giving the full btc refunds unless they made a profit doing so. (If the price of btc drops). They were gambling on the exchange rate and they lost.

According to icebreaker it's your fault for not being a psychic who would have known from the start that they are greedy scammers who don't give a rats ass about a contract but everyone else will agree it's not the victims fault.

This whole argument about btc vs usd refunds is pointless because hashfast could would not do either.

Hashfast is a fraud for losing 100% of their customers preorder money when production costs should have been no more than 10%. Simple as that.

Repeating your debunked interpretation of HF's offer to optionally issue refunds via the same medium of exchange offered as a convenience to customers won't make it true.

Only us windfall seekers were "gambling on an exchange rate" "to make a profit."   

HF's profit was realized in the normal manner by being included in the USD denominated sales price. Gambling on partial refunds in deflated BTC would never be approved or allowed by HF's lawyers, because it would be illegal.  HF planned to ship products, not issue refunds, so please save your conspiracy theories for the infowars forum.

As everyone in the world knows except you dead-enders, the customer support rep's response was made ceteris paribus (IE assuming the USD:BTC rate would remain constant).  Besides, an email from a customer support rep doesn't carry any weight in this argument, but merely partially explains the intensity of the confusion and butthurt. 

Compounding that confusion and resulting butthurt is the adamant confirmation bias of you who still bitterly cling to that email as if it matters more than the TOS and well established anti-windfall precepts of equity in contract law.

Part of the due diligence we failed to do would be asking an attorney if our windfall-seeking interpretation of HF representatives' statements were reasonable, much less enforceable.  Please note that I pointedly included myself in the previous statement.   

Pout and rant about "rat's asses" and "diarrhea" all you want, but it won't make you right.  Any court will tell you the same obvious things I am, and I'd really like to see you respond to a judge with the same childish scatological attacks you make on me.   

[cedivad]

You guys are just giving icebreaker permission to once again spew verbal diarrhea with these cyclical arguments.

Fact is that HF offerred full btc refunds ONLY to aquire more customers.

They did not intend on actually giving the full btc refunds unless they made a profit doing so. (If the price of btc drops). They were gambling on the exchange rate and they lost.

According to icebreaker it's your fault for not being a psychic who would have known from the start that they are greedy scammers who don't give a rats ass about a contract but everyone else will agree it's not the victims fault.

This whole argument about btc vs usd refunds is pointless because hashfast could would not do either.

Hashfast is a fraud for losing 100% of their customers preorder money when production costs should have been no more than 10%. Simple as that.

I propose to quote this post every time that idiot replies.

[iCEBREAKER]

Hashfast is a fraud for losing 100% of their customers preorder money when production costs should have been no more than 10%. Simple as that.

I propose to quote this post every time that idiot replies.

HF didn't "lose 100% of their customers preorder money."  That is a lie.

The notion that "production costs should have been no more than 10%" is false.

Your idiotic willingness to embrace such obvious falsehoods demonstrates the adamant confirmation bias to which I previously referred.   

[Micky25]

the amount of times you mention "butt" and "ass" in your posts indicates, that you possibly suffer under a mental condition known as "anal retentive".

Why not ask your therapist about that the next time you guys meet?

[jimmothy]

Hashfast is a fraud for losing 100% of their customers preorder money when production costs should have been no more than 10%. Simple as that.

I propose to quote this post every time that idiot replies.

HF didn't "lose 100% of their customers preorder money."  That is a lie.

Where did the money go?

The notion that "production costs should have been no more than 10%" is false.

How much do you think they spent on production costs?

Last I checked hashfast was trying to "liquidate" their hardware at inflated prices and that was around $1/gh.

Why is it that every other company spent less than $1/gh on production costs but hashfast supposedly spent all $10/gh?

Please don't include NRE costs because we all know that was covered before tapeout/taking preorders.

Your idiotic willingness to embrace such obvious falsehoods demonstrates the adamant confirmation bias to which I previously referred.  

How are we supposed to take you seriously when all you literally do is spread falsehoods/misconceptions?

Sidenote: I'd love to know how you can have absolutely no shame.

How can you advertise a scam, get scammed, then defend the scam once everyone's been scammed?

Is it stockholm syndrome or do you make money off of this?

[Micky25]

HF didn't "lose 100% of their customers preorder money."  That is a lie.

Agreed. Probably 10% were spent for notebooks, another 10 for relocation costs, 10 more to bribe the mafia to not burn down another house and the most of the rest dissolved through noses, cunts and/or asses or plain air.

[iCEBREAKER]

Hashfast is a fraud for losing 100% of their customers preorder money when production costs should have been no more than 10%. Simple as that.

I propose to quote this post every time that idiot replies.

HF didn't "lose 100% of their customers preorder money."  That is a lie.

Where did the money go?

The notion that "production costs should have been no more than 10%" is false.

How much do you think they spent on production costs?

Last I checked hashfast was trying to "liquidate" their hardware at inflated prices and that was around $1/gh.

Why is it that every other company spent less than $1/gh on production costs but hashfast supposedly spent all $10/gh?

Please don't include NRE costs because we all know that was covered before tapeout/taking preorders.

Your idiotic willingness to embrace such obvious falsehoods demonstrates the adamant confirmation bias to which I previously referred.  

How are we supposed to take you seriously when all you literally do is spread falsehoods/misconceptions?

Sidenote: I'd love to know how you can have absolutely no shame.

How can you advertise a scam, get scammed, then defend the scam once everyone's been scammed?

Is it stockholm syndrome or do you make money off of this?

You are laboring under the false premise that HF is a scam.

How many times do you need to be told that HF is in Chapter 11, which means that a Bankruptcy Judge, a specialized US Attorney, and a dozen other lawyers analyzed HF's income and expenses and came to the conclusion that HF not a scam, but ran out of money and deserves the chance to pull out of its tailspin?

Are you a fucking idiot, or do you just enjoy repeating a defamatory label even though it has already been thoroughly demonstrated to be inapplicable?   

[Syke]

the customer support rep's response was made ceteris paribus (IE assuming the USD:BTC rate would remain constant).

We showed an actual email from a HashFast representative that clearly states the full btc refund claim. Now show a quote that proves your claim.

Waiting.........

Oh, that's right, you're making up that claim. Fuckin Liar.

[iCEBREAKER]

the customer support rep's response was made ceteris paribus (IE assuming the USD:BTC rate would remain constant).

We showed an actual email from a HashFast representative that clearly states the full btc refund claim. Now show a quote that proves your claim.

Waiting.........

Oh, that's right, you're making up that claim. Fuckin Liar.

I've already repeatedly explained why the ceteris paribus interpretation is reasonable (WINDFALLS BAD; WINDFALLS NOT LEGAL) and why your greedy interpretation (WINDFALLS GOOD; GIVE ME WINDFALL) is unreasonable.

That email doesn't prove what you think it proves. 

If you think it does, file suit and take it to court so the nice judge can sorely disappoint you.  Otherwise, stop talking beyond your appallingly low education/competence levels and STFU.   

[Micky25]

ANGRY



and: if I read the word 'windfall' one more time in this thread, I'm going to wish it away (the thread).

[Syke]

I've already repeatedly explained why the ceteris paribus interpretation is reasonable (WINDFALLS BAD; WINDFALLS NOT LEGAL) and why your greedy interpretation (WINDFALLS GOOD; GIVE ME WINDFALL) is unreasonable.

And I've explained to you, " (IE assuming the USD:BTC rate would remain constant)." is impossible, because the USD:BTC rate never remains constant, especially over the course of several months. The email, and other quotes from HF, were very clear. Your attempts to excuse their reneging on a promise is abominable.

[jimmothy]

Forget about the btc vs USD refunds argument.

Hashfast couldn't even give out USD refunds so either way you were fucked.

The problem is that hashfast spent more than $10/gh producing hardware that every other company was able to produce for $0.5-1/gh.

Either they were mind bogglingly incompetent, they were scammed, or they are scammers. Take your pick.

[iCEBREAKER]

I've already repeatedly explained why the ceteris paribus interpretation is reasonable (WINDFALLS BAD; WINDFALLS NOT LEGAL) and why your greedy interpretation (WINDFALLS GOOD; GIVE ME WINDFALL) is unreasonable.

And I've explained to you, " (IE assuming the USD:BTC rate would remain constant)." is impossible, because the USD:BTC rate never remains constant, especially over the course of several months. The email, and other quotes from HF, were very clear. Your attempts to excuse their reneging on a promise is abominable.

The USD:BTC rate remained bound within a historically narrow $90-$120 range for the period preceding HF taking orders.

That's one reason why nobody thought to clarify the then seemingly unlikely "what if BTC goes to $1 or $1000" scenarios.

The other reason was that common sense and contract law make it obvious that an item priced in USD will be refunded on that basis, and not on any exchange rate that never remains constant.

Whether you paid for your $6800 ASIC in Euros, USD, BTCs, or gold coins, there was never a reasonable basis to expect a refund equivalent to anything but the $6800 price.

Expectations of HF refunding any different amount, EG BTC worth $68 or $68,000, were never reasonable nor had any basis in common sense, much less contract law.

[iCEBREAKER]

Forget about the btc vs USD refunds argument.

Hashfast couldn't even give out USD refunds so either way you were fucked.

The problem is that hashfast spent more than $10/gh producing hardware that every other company was able to produce for $0.5-1/gh.

Either they were mind bogglingly incompetent, they were scammed, or they are scammers. Take your pick.

I'd love to "forget about the btc vs USD refunds argument."  I thought that discussion was concluded months ago, but some fucking idiots are still clinging to their debunked confirmation biases in favor of Free Windfall Pony and other fucking idiots like you still can't comprehend or wont accept that Chapter 11 != scam no matter how many times it's explained.

Have you ever heard of the phrase "adverse business conditions?"  Adverse business conditions, not incompetence or scamming, are the most common cause of bankruptcy.  In this case, the double whammy of skyrocketing difficulty and BTC valuation combined with a failed initial board design were sufficient to drain HF's limited resources.

Did you miss the hearing where the judge asked the US Attorney point blank for evidence of incompetence on the part of HF, and the US Attorney's silly arguments were literally laughed out of court?  There is an mp3 available, so please review it and stop making yourself look like a fucking idiot by continuing to assert explicitly rejected claims.

Your opinions already had their day in court and went nowhere but straight into the trash can, because they are rubbish.   

[jimmothy]

Forget about the btc vs USD refunds argument.

Hashfast couldn't even give out USD refunds so either way you were fucked.

The problem is that hashfast spent more than $10/gh producing hardware that every other company was able to produce for $0.5-1/gh.

Either they were mind bogglingly incompetent, they were scammed, or they are scammers. Take your pick.

I'd love to "forget about the btc vs USD refunds argument."  I thought that discussion was concluded months ago, but some fucking idiots are still clinging to their debunked confirmation biases in favor of Free Windfall Pony and other fucking idiots like you still can't comprehend or wont accept that Chapter 11 != scam no matter how many times it's explained.

It's funny you say "some fucking idiots" yet literally everyone agrees that you/hashfast are full of shit.

You're an idiot if you think chapter 11 automatically means it's not a scam. That would only make sense in icebreakers alternate universe where bankruptcy fraud never occurs, delays never happen, and the btc exchange rate is perfectly stable over long periods of time.

Have you ever heard of the phrase "adverse business conditions?"  Adverse business conditions, not incompetence or scamming, are the most common cause of bankruptcy.  In this case, the double whammy of skyrocketing difficulty and BTC valuation combined with a failed initial board design were sufficient to drain HF's limited resources.

Better question, do you understand the phrase "adverse business conditions"?

Acquiring millions of dollars in preorders is NOT adverse business conditions.

Designing a chip that is more GH/s per wafer than any other company at the time is NOT adverse business conditions.

A failed initial board design is in fact an adverse business condition but how could that possibly drain ALL of HF's resources? The only explanation I can think of would be an incompetent hardware designer who was being paid way too much to fail repeatedly. (maybe it was all part of his plan to drain HF's resources?)

Did you miss the hearing where the judge asked the US Attorney point blank for evidence of incompetence on the part of HF, and the US Attorney's silly arguments were literally laughed out of court?  There is an mp3 available, so please review it and stop making yourself look like a fucking idiot by continuing to assert explicitly rejected claims.

Your opinions already had their day in court and went nowhere but straight into the trash can, because they are rubbish.   

No I don't care enough about this case but I'd love to hear it. I'd just love to know that there was a place somewhere at some point in time where people didn't think Hashfast was full of shit.

To be honest I'd be impressed if Hashfast did manage to launder/tunnel the money successfully but I don't think they are competent enough. I think they probably got scammed somewhere along the line and lost millions in some absurd way.

[Syke]

The USD:BTC rate remained bound within a historically narrow $90-$120 range for the period preceding HF taking orders.

That's one reason why nobody thought to clarify the then seemingly unlikely "what if BTC goes to $1 or $1000" scenarios.

The other reason was that common sense and contract law make it obvious that an item priced in USD will be refunded on that basis, and not on any exchange rate that never remains constant.

Whether you paid for your $6800 ASIC in Euros, USD, BTCs, or gold coins, there was never a reasonable basis to expect a refund equivalent to anything but the $6800 price.

Expectations of HF refunding any different amount, EG BTC worth $68 or $68,000, were never reasonable nor had any basis in common sense, much less contract law.

So what you're saying is, the promise "if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid" was a flat out lie? I agree with you!