NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[apenzl]

If you dont mind, I will move to the inf-com thread as I am clearly a bit burned out by the negativity in the main thread. Maybe we can reach consensus there and I wont even have to post details in the mainthread.

Before you "leave", will you answer to this?

since there was nobody who would sign up to do the bounties fulltime, I decided it was best if I just implemented what I saw best for NXT.

Can we get devs from "the outside" to work for these bounties?

CfB:

What was paid will be delivered by the 3rd of April. Not more.
Refactoring, consulting, some extra functionality like API calls.

You are the "gatekeeper" of millions of community Nxt, and more dev has to be done… New devs have 2 weeks before CfB is out of service now.

[rdanneskjoldr]

Tyler Welmans ‏@supertyler  5 h
New Mastercoin decentralised asset trading exchange goes live on the bitcoin protocol Friday @ block 290630

[Touque]

James

I appreciate what you are doing, and I'm sure most everyone else here does as well. I'll send you some nxt when I get to a trusted computer - what's your preferred address?

Your ideas and work are going to receive criticism, because everyone here is financially and emotionally invested in nxt. I just wish that people here would not resort to claiming that nxt is doomed if their ideas don't win out. A community of people that is constantly at each others throats will ultimately damage the nxt experiment.

it already has damaged
this is the third day I have lost due to negativity in the last few weeks
worse is, each time I find it harder and harder to get back in a groove

Would you peoples be treating CfB or jean-luc this way? I know I am nothing compare to them, but dont I deserve at least a little respect?

Hi James, I don't think anyone here do not admire and praise your contribution to NXT community. You are invaluable. You almost single handles pushed the unclaimed funds to be available for use, especially for the marketing. You successfully pushed the AT to be under development, and help to bring the Gateways, Nxtcash, nxtmixer under the radar. There are also many other things and ideas benefited from your contribution. You are a genius promoter and can move a train. But you have your own weakness as everybody else does. I hope you will feel better after taking some break.

[Anon136]

hey cfb did you ever see my post here? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5665022#msg5665022

Yes. I borrowed the idea about service providers and going to create a website widget that will let to "resell" goods for small %.

nice. i think there should also be a "trust" field. no need to specify how it will work. let the market work that out. but since trust is going to be a big factor, and SOME sort of solution will need to be imagined for it, there may as well be a field open for it.

additionally we should probably outline some guidelines for what sort of syntax will be involved in filling an order. so to place an order this will probably involve sending an unencrypted arbitrary message back to the address that you sent from. filling an order should probably have fields like this. obviously the payload carrying the transaction first, next in the arbitrary message part of the payload "identification number" and then "everything else". Address to ship to will be part of the "everything else" field. I wouldn't specify a field for address to ship to since who knows what sorts of things this will end up being used for.

since trust will be important and since the person placing the order cant know yet whether the sender is trustworthy, we should also probably have a special trust transaction where the person who receives a product can give trust to the person who sent it. it would probably have 2 fields. the first would be to say "this message is about trust" and the second field would be to say either "+1 trust" or "-1 trust". Again though i wouldnt be specific on how the second field works. let the market sort that out.

[btc2nxt]

to jl777
i think you will have two  problems to implement nodecoin,or nodecoins
1: you can issue nodecoin,or nodecoins at Nxt blockchains(not testnet)
2: send 10 nodecoin will cost 1 nxt, that 10nodecoin=1nxt

[salsacz]

Bitcoin is a protocol, BTC is a coin. Nxt is a protocol, NXT is a coin.

I give a fuck about average beer drinking joe right now. It is still crypto currency stuff. We don't have to please everyone right now. I'm happy to please average computer joe in the coming months.

Would it be easier to call Nxt Nxt and NXT Nxtcoin? Maybe...

well, our Messiah told it clearly, but still, - only "at least now":

Nxt has such features as

# Instant transactions ("0-confirmation transactions")
# Anonymity of IP address send transactions & mining blocks (with Tor or the cloud client)
# P2P exchange BTC (with colored coins)
# Faster difficulty changes (adjusted each block)
# Name doesn't contain "coin", "cash", "kash", "money", "dollar",  nor "bit" (at least now, Nxt is a codename)

VISA scale volume can be achieved with 32 Mbps connection.

I can not give an answer regarding Zerocoin/CoinJoin now, I am not very familiar with these concepts.

But this has got some history, so the time has changed (but not sure if it is better now )

Hi all !
For new proposed "inflationary" fork of PPCoin,
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157994.0
we need to coin REALLY good name.

There are 3 rules  :

1) The name of the fork should NOT contain
 these particles : "coin", "money", "cash", "bit", byte". ( some other disallowed syllables might be added here later ).

2) The name of the coin should NOT be
 trademarked, registered, copyrighted,
 or patented.

And he also said:

Do not trust strangers on the Internet, especially if their nickname is "BCNext".

[opticalcarrier]

It doesn't make sense to write what you call an ultralight client then.

Why would you not implement this yourself in a client and have a trustless solution?

THESE 2.  JLP, can you add an option to allow NRS to only process certain API requests from localhost?

Why? The prepareTransaction is good to get server side error handling (one shouldn't rely on client side error handling), when we get the response back, we can "unpack" it and see if it's the same as our input, if so, broadcast it out. You shouldn't disable this functionality.

Im thinking about it from a network design and scalability perspective.  IMO the scalable way do handle things is with a light client.  A VPS will be able to support 2x more light clients than unltrlight clients.

[salsacz]

since there was nobody who would sign up to do the bounties fulltime, I decided it was best if I just implemented what I saw best for NXT.

Can we get devs from "the outside" to work for these bounties?

this guy already asked me about developing nxt - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=506298.msg5580139#msg5580139 - , I forwared him to jl777, so I hope so they will have some chat and maybe start covorking on something

[chinabreak123]

where can i see the complete description about nodecoin?

[msin]

to jl777
i think you will have two  problems to implement nodecoin,or nodecoins
1: you can issue nodecoin,or nodecoins at Nxt blockchains(not testnet)
2: send 10 nodecoin will cost 1 nxt, that 10nodecoin=1nxt

Why is that a problem, I don't get the logic on this thread sometimes.  If user has to spend Nxt to send any asset, that is a good thing, it means people are using/buying Nxt.  James, please release Nodecoin when asset exchange launches.  I'm looking forward to what all AE coins have to offer.

[salsacz]

Recap:
1. What is Nxt? An ecosystem, encompassing all the features already described, to which the "Nxt" token grants access.
2. Will it be used by mainstream users? As a coin: no way. But then again, the same goes for all cryptos that call themselves openly cryptos. As an underlying infrastructure: hell yeah! It has more than enough potential for that.
3. Is this different from what we were told? I don't think so, but in my previous post I have already established that the same facts may lead to wildly divergent conclusions.
4. Am I blind to the tough times we are having and the lack of direction: nope. I just don't think it's an honest assesment of the four months of work and effort we have put in. Being "headless", this is nót unexpected at all.

Agree, I think this is the likely future for Nxt.

I more like Salsacz description - Nxt will the p2p decentralized internet network. There could be hundreds and thoughts of networks like Nxt tunning in the world.

Is the Nxt p2p decentralized internet network.

and nxt coin is p2p coin in fact

I suggest we call nxt coin p2p coin to not be confused with the nxt platform

Nxt p2p decentralized internet network.

--

Namecoin has never worked because necessity to install browser plugins (or do other things like setting special DNS servers) ruined its brilliant idea at the very beginning.  I would like to announce a feature of Nxt that offers a solution to the problem.

Nxt will be released on the 3rd of January, 2014.  That day will be a day when we make one more step to truly decentralized Internet.

By the way, in addition to decentralized DNS Nxt will have decentralized file storage.  Nxt client will be hosted on the blockchain, updates will be published from my Nxt account (the same as the generator of the genesis block).  I hope my Nxt stake will be enough to push all planned updates.  The current version takes the same volume as 1280 payment transactions, that can be quite expensive to pay fees for storing 160 KiB.

Next week we will test a prototype of a decentralized stock exchange built on top of Nxt.  The very first decentralized exchange as far as I know.
Then we will test the very first decentralized app store.  Then decentralized voting system.  You can extend this list, just add "decentralized" and "built on top of Nxt" to any thing that comes to your mind.
Future is already here.

I forgot to mention BcNext's citations when I was writing http://justpaste.it/decentralized-internet - but maybe it's better this way, I used more decentralized methodology, when I wasn't dependent on BCNext's words

[jl777]

If you dont mind, I will move to the inf-com thread as I am clearly a bit burned out by the negativity in the main thread. Maybe we can reach consensus there and I wont even have to post details in the mainthread.

Before you "leave", will you answer to this?

since there was nobody who would sign up to do the bounties fulltime, I decided it was best if I just implemented what I saw best for NXT.

Can we get devs from "the outside" to work for these bounties?

CfB:

What was paid will be delivered by the 3rd of April. Not more.
Refactoring, consulting, some extra functionality like API calls.

You are the "gatekeeper" of millions of community Nxt, and more dev has to be done… New devs have 2 weeks before CfB is out of service now.

To clarify, the NXTcommunityfund is comprised of private donations, it is not related to the unclaimed coins fund. As private donations my charter is to do the bidding of the donors. i purposely did not run for any of the three community fund committees.

Most professional devs are not available to work low wages. I have no Java expertise and I do not view my scope to include NXTcore. I would urge the dev committee to start actively recruiting. I know rickyjames is working with jean-luc about posting some ads, but active recruiting is something I dont have time for.

If anybody is interested in working long hours for NXT, they can always PM me. Several have, but most can only spare a few hours here and there so it is very hard to get up to speed quickly

James

[jl777]

to jl777
i think you will have two  problems to implement nodecoin,or nodecoins
1: you can issue nodecoin,or nodecoins at Nxt blockchains(not testnet)
2: send 10 nodecoin will cost 1 nxt, that 10nodecoin=1nxt

For mainnet the plan is to require user to redeem their nodecoins by sending in 1 NXT, which is a signal to receive all nodecoins earned.

This sets a floor value to nodecoins to being the average number of nodecoins redeemed at a time, divided by 2 NXT

[Fern]

Kyle Torpey gave NXT (alongside MSC and ETH) a positive mention on the Keiser Report.

Re: Bitching. Ethereum and Mastercoin will also have ups and down but they don't air it all in public. At least we know what is really going on with NXT.

I just want to say it's great being part of NXT's growth. There will be failures. Google has had over a dozen 'failures' but they just keep trying things until something 'sticks'.

PS: Keep doing what you are doing James.

[jl777]

where can i see the complete description about nodecoin?

nodeminer reports to the pool server the 20 active nodes it is in contact with

the pool server tabulates this and awards nodecoins based on the number of times a node was reported as an active peer

nodecoins are currently automatically sent out when you accumulate 10 of them. This will be changed in the future to require people to specifically request them

nodeminer.c is about 150 lines of C and nodeminer.h about 250 lines, together they make nodeminer and pool server:
https://github.com/jl777/multigateway

Based on the amount of time and amount of code, nodeminer has created the most controversy per line or per hour spent writing it. I did build it on top of the low level library that is under construction that I am writing for multigateway and the other projects, but nodecoin is literally a 400 lines detour that has exploded into major controversy.

James

P.S. I have added blacklisting since the last push, but no other significant changes

[opticalcarrier]

I have completed migration of my 26 VPSs to SSL.  As they are on 0.8.9, HTTP is not available, only HTTPS, and I have also enforced POST for APIs with sensitive data to ensure the sensitive data is encrypted (using HTTP GET instead of HTTP POST will expose secretPhrase, even if SSL is used).

I am the only one with access to vps1 - vps12 on nxtcrypto.org and other people have access to vps13 - vps26.  Even so, I would still highly recommend against using secretPhrase even on vps1 - vps12.

That being said, the CA that signed my VPSs' certs is my private self-signed cert.  So it is not signed by any public CA, and as such will error out if you enforce host verification (you should do this) unless you include my CA (so, yes you should do this as well) in your HTTPS client:

Code:

-----BEGIN CERTIFICATE-----
MIIDkTCCAnmgAwIBAgIJAI0O0DJBZfATMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMF8xCzAJBgNV
BAYTAkFVMRMwEQYDVQQIDApTb21lLVN0YXRlMSEwHwYDVQQKDBhJbnRlcm5ldCBX
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[chinabreak123]

thanks jl777,i'm trying to run it

[BrianNowhere]

Pls someone answer.  If in some time,we had lots of nodes supporting the network,could we just get rid of nodecoins??Or would they be part of Nxt in their most basic structure???

Once issued, nodecoins will exist for 27 years as they are given out 100 per block.
nodecoins are NOT part of NXT core. It is not part of NXT basic structure.
It is simply an asset I created using NXT core.
anybody can do this

Clearly NXT is a very disruptive tech. It can disrupt itself!

There are literally more than 47 to the 10th power of potential assets that can be created. That a lot of assets. nodecoin is just one asset.

Still think nodecoin does not add value to NXT? Just the discussion it has created has now gotten a bunch of people thinking about how they can create their own coin and issue it on AE. Dont deny it, I know you are. I charge 2% of coins as they are mined, if you need my help.

James

Jesus.  We will have our own little coin market cap war inside NXT.  It's a recursive fight to the death.  I thought AE would just be a way to trade coins peer-to-peer and avoid transaction fees altogether.  As soon as you devalue NXT to be the transaction fee token instead of a 1st gen coin, it is automatically devalued to be less than the coins being traded on it.  This coin will self-destruct in five seconds...

Your basis for this conclusion is?

i claim the NXT market cap will correlate with the SUM of the value of all the assets in AE. I provide as evidence, XRP market cap, which has done exactly that. At least as a rough approx, as big surge in December corresponded to big influx in CNY and subsequent decay in gradual exodus of assets out of ripple network.

Like it or not, AE makes NXT a similar animal as XRP. I have first hand experience with ripple and how it has fluctuated. I used to be an active market maker there, until the total fiat inside ripple drained away. I am not an economist, but when I see 70% of assets disappear and market value drops by 70%, well I was able to put two and two together.

What is your evidence of NXT destruction?

How exactly did you envision creating an economy using NXT by by building on top of NXT?
What is an economy? Isnt it people trading stuff with each other? Having a coinmarketcap war inside of NXT will bring a lot of activity and new blood into NXT. It will spawn the need for charting services, automated bot services, market makers, etc. Not exactly the joe-sixpack demographic, but in crypto land we know this is the group that provides liquidity.

I believe that I understand a lot of nuances about all this. If you have any evidence to support your theory that having active trading market of assets is totally destructive to NXT, please post. Otherwise you are just yelling "fire" in a movie theater, when there is no fire.

James

James,

I'm glad to hear you have some experience with Ripple. I've been more and more thinking that NXT is shaping up to be nothing more than a Ripple copy-cat and one that is not as good at that and I'd love to hear why you think this is not so.

Ripple already is way faster, Has Decentralized Exchange w/ cross currency trading (Can buy NXT from Peercover with Bitstamp BTC or even Bitstamp USD), the XRP fees for trading are infinitesimal and only for spam protection. You can covert USD to XRP directly via SnapSwap (albeit w/ too high fees). You can even "mine"/acquire them with a far greater return through the BOINC WCG, which is a very noble cause.

NXT is slower, all the assets can only be purchased in NXT, there are NXT fees for doing anything, there is a NXT fee for PLACING a buy or sell order (which no other exchange does) , no one knows if enough people will run nodes, and it's been sounding like the system may end up needing centralized high performing servers to be able to boost the transaction speed to anywhere near what Ripple already has.

I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts on why you think NXT is better than Riipple and why the liquidity will be better or the spreads closer, why more companies and assets will be attracted to it, why REAL businesses and banks will buy into it & why it will be any more  successful.

[Sebastien256]

@jl777
Seriously James, what your are doing in NXT community is awesome. You are one of the *two* peoples that I have put in my favorite bar:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=177323;sa=showPosts

I had to say it. I Hope you like the compliment and that is a bit of positivity for you... Man you are on the favorite bar of someone, can you believe that!?!

Keep up the good work (but if you think you need vacation, I think you really deserve it)!

[NxtMinnow]

Hi Brian Nowhere,

it's been a long day and you have joined the party late here today. I am going to refer you to http://ripplescam.org/ and you can read all about how Ripple is not actually decentralized. All your other questions can be answered by actually reading this monster thread or the newsletter here: http://nxter.org/nxt-newsletter-5/.    

Pls someone answer.  If in some time,we had lots of nodes supporting the network,could we just get rid of nodecoins??Or would they be part of Nxt in their most basic structure???

Once issued, nodecoins will exist for 27 years as they are given out 100 per block.
nodecoins are NOT part of NXT core. It is not part of NXT basic structure.
It is simply an asset I created using NXT core.
anybody can do this

Clearly NXT is a very disruptive tech. It can disrupt itself!

There are literally more than 47 to the 10th power of potential assets that can be created. That a lot of assets. nodecoin is just one asset.

Still think nodecoin does not add value to NXT? Just the discussion it has created has now gotten a bunch of people thinking about how they can create their own coin and issue it on AE. Dont deny it, I know you are. I charge 2% of coins as they are mined, if you need my help.

James

Jesus.  We will have our own little coin market cap war inside NXT.  It's a recursive fight to the death.  I thought AE would just be a way to trade coins peer-to-peer and avoid transaction fees altogether.  As soon as you devalue NXT to be the transaction fee token instead of a 1st gen coin, it is automatically devalued to be less than the coins being traded on it.  This coin will self-destruct in five seconds...

Your basis for this conclusion is?

i claim the NXT market cap will correlate with the SUM of the value of all the assets in AE. I provide as evidence, XRP market cap, which has done exactly that. At least as a rough approx, as big surge in December corresponded to big influx in CNY and subsequent decay in gradual exodus of assets out of ripple network.

Like it or not, AE makes NXT a similar animal as XRP. I have first hand experience with ripple and how it has fluctuated. I used to be an active market maker there, until the total fiat inside ripple drained away. I am not an economist, but when I see 70% of assets disappear and market value drops by 70%, well I was able to put two and two together.

What is your evidence of NXT destruction?

How exactly did you envision creating an economy using NXT by by building on top of NXT?
What is an economy? Isnt it people trading stuff with each other? Having a coinmarketcap war inside of NXT will bring a lot of activity and new blood into NXT. It will spawn the need for charting services, automated bot services, market makers, etc. Not exactly the joe-sixpack demographic, but in crypto land we know this is the group that provides liquidity.

I believe that I understand a lot of nuances about all this. If you have any evidence to support your theory that having active trading market of assets is totally destructive to NXT, please post. Otherwise you are just yelling "fire" in a movie theater, when there is no fire.

James

James,

I'm glad to hear you have some experience with Ripple. I've been more and more thinking that NXT is shaping up to be nothing more than a Ripple copy-cat and one that is not as good at that and I'd love to hear why you think this is not so.

Ripple already is way faster, Has Decentralized Exchange w/ cross currency trading (Can buy NXT from Peercover with Bitstamp BTC or even Bitstamp USD), the XRP fees for trading are infinitesimal and only for spam protection. You can covert USD to XRP directly via SnapSwap (albeit w/ too high fees). You can even "mine"/acquire them with a far greater return through the BOINC WCG, which is a very noble cause.

NXT is slower, all the assets can only be purchased in NXT, there are NXT fees for doing anything, there is a NXT fee for PLACING a buy or sell order (which no other exchange does) , no one knows if enough people will run nodes, and it's been sounding like the system may end up needing centralized high performing servers to be able to boost the transaction speed to anywhere near what Ripple already has.

I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts on why you think NXT is better than Riipple and why the liquidity will be better or the spreads closer, why more companies and assets will be attracted to it, why REAL businesses and banks will buy into it & why it will be any more  successful.