NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[wesleyh]

I really strongly think this is not right.

People are going to have to do research anyway before they buy and once they do it will be totally obvious which one is the legit one, it will be the one that they already own some of. alternatively inorder for them to feel safe buying with out doing research the asset will have to be well established. In this scenario the barrier to entry cost would actually be relatively insignificant compared to the costs associated with artificially generating that credibility through having huge amounts of fees payed to miners through the buying and selling of your asset.

im really quite certain that, considering the recent change to the conditions, the benefits gained from having a vibrant ecosystem of tokens would outweigh the cost of potential scammers, especially since people will need to take basic precautions against scammers anyway no matter what the issue fee.

This makes sense. Let's think how we'll come to a consensus.

think of the poor little girl who wants to incorporate her lemonade stand. she literally has 1 dollar worth of assets. or the poor african who wants to buy a shovel and doesn't even have enough to do that. sure if the advantages are great enough than im willing to say screw um. but it just isnt anymore, the advantages are VERY minor at this point.

Doesn't make sense to me. Incorporate a lemon stand? Lol. OK the second idea is better, but for buying a shovel you don't need to issue an asset.. what would the return on investment be of that?.. I guess someone could create a Nxt microloan service instead.

[Conurtrol]

Is a two tiered system possible? I want to sell 100 lollipops for 50 cents each. Nxt fee = 1. I want to sell 100 ssd's for $250 each. Nxt fee =1000

[Anon136]

why not? whats the cost? sure i recognize that there is a cost but its minor compared to the benefit.

I think the cost is the "image" of the project - if we are wanting to court more business types then fees such as 1000 NXT are not going to frighten them at all.

But kids having fun are going to create Assets left, right and center if we make it the same price as creating an AM.

the image is scammie sure, but it will also have positive assets. We will also have the image of openness and accessibility to everyone. the opportunity for someone to build him self up from almost nothing. someone with almost NO assets to his name can bootstrap his way to success. its easy to think of ourselves in isolation in the west (or i guess the east in your case) but there are a lot of people out there with a lot of potential to whom 1000 nxt may as well be a million. again if the advantage was great enough than i would say "yea ok cut those people out" but it just isnt. its a tiny advantage we are talking about here. fewer assets listed in the exchange, but so what you can filter and you will have to consult outside sources anyway before you make a purchase whether there are 2 microsofts or 10,000 microsofts.

[Sebastien256]

imo, I don't really care the price of issuing asset. It could be lower. Just need to define what is low. 1000nxt seem low to me, but if poeple think it is high, maybe there is a reason. It true that since name is not unique, price could be cheap.

With the name not being unique anyway - it is easy enough to lower fees as we go.

I am not against "low fees" but would rather that *at first* we have a less *spam* basically.

(just to paint a nicer picture before we let every kid in the world scribble on it)

I agree that this is not an urgent matter. This can be postpone imo.

[Come-from-Beyond]

think of the poor little girl who wants to incorporate her lemonade stand. she literally has 1 dollar worth of assets. or the poor african who wants to buy a shovel and doesn't even have enough to do that. sure if the advantages are great enough than im willing to say screw um. but it just isnt anymore, the advantages are VERY minor at this point.

I wasn't able to read the end of ur post coz of tears in my eyes.

I'm working on market-set fees code.

[Sebastien256]

why not? whats the cost? sure i recognize that there is a cost but its minor compared to the benefit.

I think the cost is the "image" of the project - if we are wanting to court more business types then fees such as 1000 NXT are not going to frighten them at all.

But kids having fun are going to create Assets left, right and center if we make it the same price as creating an AM.

the image is scammie sure, but it will also have positive assets. We will also have the image of openness and accessibility to everyone. the opportunity for someone to build him self up from almost nothing. someone with almost NO assets to his name can bootstrap his way to success. its easy to think of ourselves in isolation in the west (or i guess the east in your case) but there are a lot of people out there with a lot of potential to whom 1000 nxt may as well be a million. again if the advantage was great enough than i would say "yea ok cut those people out" but it just isnt. its a tiny advantage we are talking about here. fewer assets listed in the exchange, but so what you can filter and you will have to consult outside sources anyway before you make a purchase whether there are 2 microsofts or 10,000 microsofts.

Anon, can you give example where issue cheap asset is need (less than an 100$)?

EDIT: Ok I miss read, I agree, that for some poeple in less rich country 100$ may be a lot. Fee should be lower. However, im not sure if this is urgent matter.

[CIYAM]

We will also have the image of openness and accessibility to everyone. the opportunity for someone to build him self up from almost nothing. someone with almost NO assets to his name can bootstrap his way to success.

I get that - but do we *need* to *start with that* as most people haven't even *heard* of Nxt.

Anyway - I'll not try and stop the fees being lowered but just think me might want to do that "in steps" (as it gets wider adoption).

[Anon136]

I really strongly think this is not right.

People are going to have to do research anyway before they buy and once they do it will be totally obvious which one is the legit one, it will be the one that they already own some of. alternatively inorder for them to feel safe buying with out doing research the asset will have to be well established. In this scenario the barrier to entry cost would actually be relatively insignificant compared to the costs associated with artificially generating that credibility through having huge amounts of fees payed to miners through the buying and selling of your asset.

im really quite certain that, considering the recent change to the conditions, the benefits gained from having a vibrant ecosystem of tokens would outweigh the cost of potential scammers, especially since people will need to take basic precautions against scammers anyway no matter what the issue fee.

This makes sense. Let's think how we'll come to a consensus.

think of the poor little girl who wants to incorporate her lemonade stand. she literally has 1 dollar worth of assets. or the poor african who wants to buy a shovel and doesn't even have enough to do that. sure if the advantages are great enough than im willing to say screw um. but it just isnt anymore, the advantages are VERY minor at this point.

Doesn't make sense to me. Incorporate a lemon stand? Lol. OK the second idea is better, but for buying a shovel you don't need to issue an asset.. what would the return on investment be of that?.. I guess someone could create a Nxt microloan service instead.

why on earth shouldn't a little girl be able to incorporate a lemonade stand for all of the exact same reasons that incorporating anything else benefits everyone else? maybe she has entrepreneurial aspirations and ideas but no assets. maybe she has the assets and the idea but wishes to defer to the wisdom of the market to determine whether its a good idea or not.

[Anon136]

think of the poor little girl who wants to incorporate her lemonade stand. she literally has 1 dollar worth of assets. or the poor african who wants to buy a shovel and doesn't even have enough to do that. sure if the advantages are great enough than im willing to say screw um. but it just isnt anymore, the advantages are VERY minor at this point.

I wasn't able to read the end of ur post coz of tears in my eyes.

I'm working on market-set fees code.

 

either our arguments non unique asset names are right in which they apply equally well to 0.1 fee asset issuance. or they arnt in which case we have other problems to worry about.

again i want to reiterate that im not arguing that there wont be a legitimate cost to this. it will have a cost. just not one that outweighs the benefits.

[CIYAM]

again i want to reiterate that im not arguing that there wont be a legitimate cost to this. it will have a cost. just not one that outweighs the benefits.

I think the "lemon stand" is maybe going a little far isn't it (had to dry my tears also)?

I agree that "market forces" though should determine fees in the end - so even if we start with high fees we should be looking to lower them to the level that works most efficiently.

[Anon136]

again i want to reiterate that im not arguing that there wont be a legitimate cost to this. it will have a cost. just not one that outweighs the benefits.

I think the "lemon stand" is maybe going a little far isn't it (had to dry my tears also)?

I agree that "market forces" though should determine fees in the end - so even if we start with high fees we should be looking to lower them to the level that works most efficiently.

i think its a little generic but the general point is that there world is filled with people who have unrealized potential because they have no access to capital. children with entrepreneurial aspirations are but one example.

[CIYAM]

i think its a little generic but the general point is that there world is filled with people who have unrealized potential because they have no access to capital. children with entrepreneurial aspirations are but one example.

True - but I see even people in very poor areas *using mobile phones* (hard to find any Chinese person that doesn't have a *smart phone* these days).

So creating a "company" for the price of "sending an SMS" seems a little "too cheap to me".

[farl4web]

Twitter kind of had the same problem with usernames, and everything is fine.Even some big companies had to add a number or letter to their brand name,because it was already taken, or buy it for not a lot of money,as it isnt such a big problem.Then the name that appears on your profile can be repeated,and people is used to going to the official website or googling to verify which account is the official one of who they want to follow. They follow it,and never see fake ones again.

This is a use case that basically clinches it for me.
Thanks for being a beacon of common sense.

+1

[Jerical13]

What would guarantee its universal acceptance? If trading anything on the network for USD's is allowed the only guarantee is that NXT will be the currency that fees are charged in. I think this would only serve to make the NXT currency less accepted and less in demand. I agree that NXT should have to compete for dominance, but as a platform on a whole; and the base currency of that platform should not be undermined by allowing other currencies that level of influence within the platform.

For all the posting you are doing on this topic, you show no signs of having considered the mathematical reality of what happens when $500 million of business flows into the Nxt system, and they are forced to use only Nxt to settle their trades.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5815603#msg5815603

Furthermore, you fail to acknowledge that if a European wants to trade Euros for a commodity or an equity, he will favor the platform that allows him to denominate his trade in Euros. A Nxt fork will emerge that allows that, and we'll all be sitting here as kings of an abandoned currency.

If they are forced to use only NXT for their trades then the demand will generate a higher price for NXT. That is how the math works. Do you expect that their will such a tidal wave of business inflow that the price of NXT will not be able to keep up? I think that would be when it would actually go to the moon.

And if someone wants to trade in Euros he already has the option to do so. I don't think you acknowledge the fact that this is the case. By allowing these kinds of trades, it would subordinate the NXT currency and result in it being less dependable, and in people holding less confidence in it as anything other than a fee coin. If someone wanted to fork NXT and eliminate or greatly reduce these fees, we would still be the kings of an abandoned currency. I think the point should be to make the NXT platform a desirable platform to use, and people will use it. By undercutting the base currency for this platform, do you think that this would strengthen the platform as a whole? Do you think that the fact that Bitcoin has the same advantage as being the base currency for essentially every other crypto currency has no effect on it's strength as a currency? If people could buy any crypto they wanted with fiat, do you think Bitcoin would have the same worth that it does? Is the idea of cryptos, in general, to get away from centralized fiat currencies or to provide a platform to encourage their trade?

By forcing the trade of NXT, initially it may result in fewer transactions, but as the value of the NXT currency became higher, more dependable and established its self as the base for a broad economy, confidence in its sustainable worth would go up. This would help to strengthen the NXT platform over time.

In the short term it may generate more usage of the network to allow external currencies this type of leverage, but in the long term I think it would stunt the growth of NXT or any other platform that allowed these types of trades.

IMO

[Damelon]

ANNOUNCEMENT

The new Nxt forum can be found here, people: http://107.170.117.237/index.php

Just so you don't miss it!

[Anon136]

ANNOUNCEMENT

The new Nxt forum can be found here, people: http://107.170.117.237/index.php

Just so you don't miss it!

what happened to the old one?

[Damelon]

ANNOUNCEMENT

The new Nxt forum can be found here, people: http://107.170.117.237/index.php

Just so you don't miss it!

what happened to the old one?

nxtcrypto lost it's admin.
Wesley set this one up to have a SMF forum where we all can post and leave this crawling thread behind.

Edit: have a look. It'll feel familiar and will make discussions much more organised and easy

[bombur55]

12363381624583325837

Sent you 10K.

Awesome! Anyone WTB some fine whisky?
I have a probably stupid question. What if I want to sell a single item, e.g. some used stuff, like a marketplace. Or even better what about an auction ebay style. Sorry if this was already discussed sometime. I am kinda new to the asset exchange and everything.

[farl4web]

Nxt is in dared need of a 100% trust forum. Im wondering how long it will take until we get one. I believe community fund should fund a forum to get thing structure a bit. It good to be decentralized, but not desorganized.

I'm setting one up now and if opticalcarrier agrees it can be the new forums.nxtcrypto.org:

http://107.170.117.237

Why do we need another forum exactly? 

http://www.nextcoin.org is very popular and http://forums.nxtcrypto.org is also fine.

And if we get new forum, could we please use a Next Generation design?   Something like this https://ripple.com/forum (sorry for using Ripple as example).

[Sebastien256]

Nxt is in dared need of a 100% trust forum. Im wondering how long it will take until we get one. I believe community fund should fund a forum to get thing structure a bit. It good to be decentralized, but not desorganized.

I'm setting one up now and if opticalcarrier agrees it can be the new forums.nxtcrypto.org:

http://107.170.117.237

Why do we need another forum exactly? 

http://www.nextcoin.org is very popular and http://forums.nxtcrypto.org is also fine.

And if we get new forum, could we please use a Next Generation design?   Something like this https://ripple.com/forum (sorry for using Ripple as example).

I fear that whatever forum will be up, there will always people that are not happy. nextcoin is run by a business on the top level (dgex), while nxtcrypto have no admin. So make your idea based on this.