rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;)

[zimmah]

Very interesting posts about inflationary economy.

Being gold deflationary, don't you think that if bitcoin gets mass adoption that we would be back to the economy of dark ages when gold was like a currency? Actually, I have almost no idea what am I speaking about, but comparing deflationary nature of bitcoin to gold that's what comes to mind.

That's why gold, silver and bitcoin are all sound money.

It has happened several times in history that fiat money (or in ancient times gold that was mixed with increasing amounts of copper) collapsed due to the inflationary nature of it and people went back to a deflationary currency (gold and silver).

This is however the first time in history that the fiat currency of the mayor world power (dollars) or so widespread, while also having a globalized economy where no country can survive economically without the other nations. And it's also the same time bitcoin is in the picture.

So, we can expect the comming collapse of the dollar to have a huge impact on the world economy, and though we can be pretty sure many people will at least try to get their hands on gold and silver (and I advice you to buy some now, rather than later, when it's too late), we can also assume many people will see the benefits of having 'digital gold' namely bitcoin. And I expect the price of bitcoin to skyrocket along with gold and silver in the case of economic collapse.

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[Miz4r]

...we're already overproducing...

made me think of this : http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-16/where-worlds-unsold-cars-go-die

As it is, there are more cars than there are people on the planet with an estimated 10 billion roadworthy cars in the world today.

You see, this is exactly what's wrong with inflationary economies. It's never enough.

We have more phones than people, we have more cars than people, we have more TVs than people. And even though there's enough for everyone, they rather let them rot and actively buy up land to park them and let them rust and even recycle them (without them ever being used) than to sell them at reduced prices or (the horror) give them away to people who can't afford them. Or maybe, you know, use the land for something like growing food or something.

And that all while exhausting the planet for the materials to build more and more, even though there is already not only enough for everyone, but too much. The only reason they keep on producing is because if they stop producing, the economy would collapse even further. How can you expect an economy to last if your economy requires you to produce 12 billion cars while there's only 7 billion people, and half of them can't even afford food?

At the same time they stop to build houses even though more and more young adults keep living at home because they can't afford their own houses because of the inflated house prices, just to keep the house prices inflated.

The world has gone mad.

Yep, this is just another case of the fact that we can't have perpetual growth on a planet with finite resources.

The infinite increasing growth and consumption model is the one that has been sold to us because the fiat-money-debt-ponzi on which the global economy has been built on necessitates it.

I'm glad to see sane people here realizing how crazy the system has become. What baffles me however that so many seemingly intelligent and well educated people don't see this or just keep beating around the bush and talk about the symptoms as if those are the real problems and the system itself is fine. It's like everyone is suffering from the exact opposite of hallucinations: they just can't see what's right there in front of them. Maybe the truth is just too horrible to see. But we have to.

[Taxidermista]

Yesterday BTC daily volume at Bitstamp was one of the lowest in months, only 21 days in 2013 had less volume.

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

With the dropping volume, the only chance to avoid another drop would be if some bitcoin salesman get some simpleminded rich person to buy a lot of coins from the market.

The only thing that keeps the price from dropping is the overheated mining bubble. Most don't want to sell this low, and admit that they don't see any ROI with their mining equipment.
But this is not a solid hold, but a desperate and fragile hold. When the first miners will start to think "fck it, I'll cut my losses and move on", then their sells will trigger an avalanche. Most of the miners who are holding are nervous and they will be motivated to cut their losses if it seems like it's best to sell higher now, then lower later.
I think that everyone who are holding bitcoin's at the moment for investment purposes are fools who are taking a needless risk. You could always buy back when there will be any news that give a real reason why bitcoin price should rise. Right now they are betting against the odds, because if nothing important happens, then the volume will continue dropping with the price.

[RandomPedestrianN9]

Yesterday BTC daily volume at Bitstamp was one of the lowest in months, only 21 days in 2013 had less volume.

People are clearly racing to get their hands on BTC. Average Joes cant wait to spend their lifesavings on 1 BTC. Clearly.

[RandomPedestrianN9]

With the dropping volume, the only chance to avoid another drop would be if some bitcoin salesman get some simpleminded rich person to buy a lot of coins from the market.

The only thing that keeps the price from dropping is the overheated mining bubble. Most don't want to sell this low, and admit that they don't see any ROI with their mining equipment.
But this is not a solid hold, but a desperate and fragile hold. When the first miners will start to think "fck it, I'll cut my losses and move on", then their sells will trigger an avalanche. Most of the miners who are holding are nervous and they will be motivated to cut their losses if it seems like it's best to sell higher now, then lower later.
I think that everyone who are holding bitcoin's at the moment for investment purposes are fools who are taking a needless risk. You could always buy back when there will be any news that give a real reason why bitcoin price should rise. Right now they are betting against the odds, because if nothing important happens, then the volume will continue dropping with the price.

Finally, a sane person here.

[inca]

With the dropping volume, the only chance to avoid another drop would be if some bitcoin salesman get some simpleminded rich person to buy a lot of coins from the market.

The only thing that keeps the price from dropping is the overheated mining bubble. Most don't want to sell this low, and admit that they don't see any ROI with their mining equipment.
But this is not a solid hold, but a desperate and fragile hold. When the first miners will start to think "fck it, I'll cut my losses and move on", then their sells will trigger an avalanche. Most of the miners who are holding are nervous and they will be motivated to cut their losses if it seems like it's best to sell higher now, then lower later.
I think that everyone who are holding bitcoin's at the moment for investment purposes are fools who are taking a needless risk. You could always buy back when there will be any news that give a real reason why bitcoin price should rise. Right now they are betting against the odds, because if nothing important happens, then the volume will continue dropping with the price.

Finally, a sane person here.

"Anyone holding bitcoins at the moment for investment purposes are fools"

Sounds like you don't hold any then, Mervyn.

"Most of the miners who are holding are nervous"

Not sure who elected you a spokesman for the mining community!

The only conceivable reason you would hang around posting negative tosh on here every day - is the same reason the other newbie account trolls do likewise - you desperately want to buy bitcoins at a lower price than today. Come to think of it: fonzie, cosmofly, igorr et al seem to have gone awfully quiet.

You have as much idea of which way the price moves as everyone else simply watching the price on here - that is none.

Anyway, good luck in your accumulation!

[RandomPedestrianN9]

With the dropping volume, the only chance to avoid another drop would be if some bitcoin salesman get some simpleminded rich person to buy a lot of coins from the market.

The only thing that keeps the price from dropping is the overheated mining bubble. Most don't want to sell this low, and admit that they don't see any ROI with their mining equipment.
But this is not a solid hold, but a desperate and fragile hold. When the first miners will start to think "fck it, I'll cut my losses and move on", then their sells will trigger an avalanche. Most of the miners who are holding are nervous and they will be motivated to cut their losses if it seems like it's best to sell higher now, then lower later.
I think that everyone who are holding bitcoin's at the moment for investment purposes are fools who are taking a needless risk. You could always buy back when there will be any news that give a real reason why bitcoin price should rise. Right now they are betting against the odds, because if nothing important happens, then the volume will continue dropping with the price.

Finally, a sane person here.

"Anyone holding bitcoins at the moment for investment purposes are fools"

Sounds like you don't hold any then, Mervyn.

"Most of the miners who are holding are nervous"

Not sure who elected you a spokesman for the mining community!

The only conceivable reason you would hang around posting negative tosh on here every day - is the same reason the other newbie account trolls do likewise - you desperately want to buy bitcoins at a lower price than today. Come to think of it: fonzie, cosmofly, igorr et al seem to have gone awfully quiet.

You have as much idea of which way the price moves as everyone else simply watching the price on here - that is none.

Anyway, good luck in your accumulation!

Kids watch the price and praise talk, big boys watch the volume and fundamentals.

[inca]

With the dropping volume, the only chance to avoid another drop would be if some bitcoin salesman get some simpleminded rich person to buy a lot of coins from the market.

The only thing that keeps the price from dropping is the overheated mining bubble. Most don't want to sell this low, and admit that they don't see any ROI with their mining equipment.
But this is not a solid hold, but a desperate and fragile hold. When the first miners will start to think "fck it, I'll cut my losses and move on", then their sells will trigger an avalanche. Most of the miners who are holding are nervous and they will be motivated to cut their losses if it seems like it's best to sell higher now, then lower later.
I think that everyone who are holding bitcoin's at the moment for investment purposes are fools who are taking a needless risk. You could always buy back when there will be any news that give a real reason why bitcoin price should rise. Right now they are betting against the odds, because if nothing important happens, then the volume will continue dropping with the price.

Finally, a sane person here.

"Anyone holding bitcoins at the moment for investment purposes are fools"

Sounds like you don't hold any then, Mervyn.

"Most of the miners who are holding are nervous"

Not sure who elected you a spokesman for the mining community!

The only conceivable reason you would hang around posting negative tosh on here every day - is the same reason the other newbie account trolls do likewise - you desperately want to buy bitcoins at a lower price than today. Come to think of it: fonzie, cosmofly, igorr et al seem to have gone awfully quiet.

You have as much idea of which way the price moves as everyone else simply watching the price on here - that is none.

Anyway, good luck in your accumulation!

Kids watch the price and praise talk, big boys watch the volume and fundamentals.

Yes well the fundamentals are something that seem to have been forgotten in this forum for several months.

[Wilhelm]

With the dropping volume, the only chance to avoid another drop would be if some bitcoin salesman get some simpleminded rich person to buy a lot of coins from the market.

The only thing that keeps the price from dropping is the overheated mining bubble. Most don't want to sell this low, and admit that they don't see any ROI with their mining equipment.
But this is not a solid hold, but a desperate and fragile hold. When the first miners will start to think "fck it, I'll cut my losses and move on", then their sells will trigger an avalanche. Most of the miners who are holding are nervous and they will be motivated to cut their losses if it seems like it's best to sell higher now, then lower later.
I think that everyone who are holding bitcoin's at the moment for investment purposes are fools who are taking a needless risk. You could always buy back when there will be any news that give a real reason why bitcoin price should rise. Right now they are betting against the odds, because if nothing important happens, then the volume will continue dropping with the price.

Finally, a sane person here.

"Anyone holding bitcoins at the moment for investment purposes are fools"

Sounds like you don't hold any then, Mervyn.

"Most of the miners who are holding are nervous"

Not sure who elected you a spokesman for the mining community!

The only conceivable reason you would hang around posting negative tosh on here every day - is the same reason the other newbie account trolls do likewise - you desperately want to buy bitcoins at a lower price than today. Come to think of it: fonzie, cosmofly, igorr et al seem to have gone awfully quiet.

You have as much idea of which way the price moves as everyone else simply watching the price on here - that is none.

Anyway, good luck in your accumulation!

The bears have gone into hybernation

[NotLambchop]

...
You have as much idea of which way the price moves as everyone else simply watching the price on here - that is none.
...

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

I predict a crash to $300-$350 in 7 days.
...

[RandomPedestrianN9]

I predict a crash to $300-$350 in 7 days.
...

Closer than you think.

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

"Anyone holding bitcoins at the moment for investment purposes are fools"

Sounds like you don't hold any then, Mervyn.

"Most of the miners who are holding are nervous"

Not sure who elected you a spokesman for the mining community!

The only conceivable reason you would hang around posting negative tosh on here every day - is the same reason the other newbie account trolls do likewise - you desperately want to buy bitcoins at a lower price than today. Come to think of it: fonzie, cosmofly, igorr et al seem to have gone awfully quiet.

You have as much idea of which way the price moves as everyone else simply watching the price on here - that is none.

Anyway, good luck in your accumulation!

That sounds about right, I'm not holding any coins since December. I have decided not to buy bitcoins anymore, and to buy a selection of altcoins instead, when the there will be a general trend reversal. Only reason why I still care about bitcoin, is that the market is young and foolish, so most other cryptos are highly dependant on bitcoin.
I just got tired of bitcoin and it's investment community. I got tired of people cheering CCMF with halfwits, while blaming everyone else for trolling who have a healthy sense of skepticism. I got tired of all the denial and stupidity of people who desperately want to believe that they can get rich without education, experience or just doing any work. The bitcoin community is far from being a community that is connected by virtues, technical skills or any sense of right and wrong. The main connection is made by blind greed, that has created a community of "If we all think positive thoughts, then miracles will happen!" people, who mostly remind me the ones who get easily involved with cults or pyramid schemes.

You can observe the sentiment of miners by looking at the mining forums. Desperation is specially strong with those who are still waiting for their pre-paid machines with long release delays. Bitcoin mining is a fool's game, with using an increased amount of resources, while not gaining anything in the aspects of speed or security of the network. That is why most of the miners are fools, who aren't exactly rich, meaning they can't hold up very long without getting into financial difficulties.

And like I said, I'm tired of being always blamed, just because I don't believe in the successful future for bitcoin's unit price. I'm tired of being called the badguy all the time, while the snake tounged bitcoin salesmen get praised even if their speculations are almost never right. I hope for a fast trend reversal, so I could buy my alts and win some money and gradually distance myself from this cesspool. In the meantime, I want to pistol-whip anyone who will start whining that this would happen if I would say more positive things and cheer ccmf together with the mindless drones.

[threecats]

"I'm tired of being called the badguy all the time"

Easy solution.  Stop your whining, stop trolling this forum with your relentless negativity. Problem solved.

Your welcome.

[RandomPedestrianN9]

"I'm tired of being called the badguy all the time"

Easy solution.  Stop your whining, stop trolling this forum with your relentless negativity. Problem solved.

Your welcome.

Bagholder

[gentlemand]

Provide us with a post that's faintly constructive and/or interesting in either direction rather than shitting on what's just been written by someone else.

I dare you.

[romneymoney]

"Anyone holding bitcoins at the moment for investment purposes are fools"

Sounds like you don't hold any then, Mervyn.

"Most of the miners who are holding are nervous"

Not sure who elected you a spokesman for the mining community!

The only conceivable reason you would hang around posting negative tosh on here every day - is the same reason the other newbie account trolls do likewise - you desperately want to buy bitcoins at a lower price than today. Come to think of it: fonzie, cosmofly, igorr et al seem to have gone awfully quiet.

You have as much idea of which way the price moves as everyone else simply watching the price on here - that is none.

Anyway, good luck in your accumulation!

That sounds about right, I'm not holding any coins since December. I have decided not to buy bitcoins anymore, and to buy a selection of altcoins instead, when the there will be a general trend reversal. Only reason why I still care about bitcoin, is that the market is young and foolish, so most other cryptos are highly dependant on bitcoin.
I just got tired of bitcoin and it's investment community. I got tired of people cheering CCMF with halfwits, while blaming everyone else for trolling who have a healthy sense of skepticism. I got tired of all the denial and stupidity of people who desperately want to believe that they can get rich without education, experience or just doing any work. The bitcoin community is far from being a community that is connected by virtues, technical skills or any sense of right and wrong. The main connection is made by blind greed, that has created a community of "If we all think positive thoughts, then miracles will happen!" people, who mostly remind me the ones who get easily involved with cults or pyramid schemes.

You can observe the sentiment of miners by looking at the mining forums. Desperation is specially strong with those who are still waiting for their pre-paid machines with long release delays. Bitcoin mining is a fool's game, with using an increased amount of resources, while not gaining anything in the aspects of speed or security of the network. That is why most of the miners are fools, who aren't exactly rich, meaning they can't hold up very long without getting into financial difficulties.

And like I said, I'm tired of being always blamed, just because I don't believe in the successful future for bitcoin's unit price. I'm tired of being called the badguy all the time, while the snake tounged bitcoin salesmen get praised even if their speculations are almost never right. I hope for a fast trend reversal, so I could buy my alts and win some money and gradually distance myself from this cesspool. In the meantime, I want to pistol-whip anyone who will start whining that this would happen if I would say more positive things and cheer ccmf together with the mindless drones.

Your hate for Bitcoin the community seems to be the primary factor in your decision making.  I believe the correlation between that and the price is something you fabricated in your head.  Bottom line, your awkward attitude is affecting your ability to invest intelligently.

[RandomPedestrianN9]

Your hate for Bitcoin the community seems to be the primary factor in your decision making.  I believe the correlation between that and the price is something you fabricated in your head.  Bottom line, your awkward attitude is affecting your ability to invest intelligently.

Said Bitcoin fanboy in May 2014.

[romneymoney]

Your hate for Bitcoin the community seems to be the primary factor in your decision making.  I believe the correlation between that and the price is something you fabricated in your head.  Bottom line, your awkward attitude is affecting your ability to invest intelligently.

Said Bitcoin fanboy in May 2014.

So all alts is a good investment position and the over-hyped forum predictions are a good reason to make that move?
Call me a fanboy all you want, but I don't come here acting like I know exactly what's going to happen calling everyone else is a fool.  I'm somewhat excited by bitcoin, it's the only investment I hodl that has any chance whatsoever if mega-gains.  Due to a risk profile that's just as extreme as the reward one, my amt invested is not as high as it would be.  If that makes me a fanboy, so be it.

[MahaRamana]

I got tired of all the denial and stupidity of people who desperately want to believe that they can get rich without education, experience or just doing any work.

Holding an appreciating asset is a form of work. It is sacrificing the utility of goods/services right now or other investments/fiat.
Some people desperately want to believe, some people desperately don't want to believe. Neither of them influence the outcome.

The bitcoin community is far from being a community that is connected by virtues, technical skills or any sense of right and wrong.

Bitcoin is a store of value and a transaction system. It attracts people that are interested in such things. Indeed it is not a religious or humanitarian endeavour. So the bitcoin community is bad because it circles around something that is different than virtues and right&wrong ?

The main connection is made by blind greed, that has created a community of "If we all think positive thoughts, then miracles will happen!" people, who mostly remind me the ones who get easily involved with cults or pyramid schemes.

It might be true in some posts. But have you read this one here ?
It is the rational mind, and not sentiments and faith, that lead people to understand that miracles will not be needed for bitcoin to succeed.

Bitcoin mining is a fool's game, with using an increased amount of resources, most of the miners are fools

This might be true. But it sounds similar to real world mining. It consumes resources, it pollutes, it is sometimes done at a loss...
But still it happens... Why to concern yourself about others business and choices ?
Are you sure that bitcoin is fully dependant now and in the future on the mining system as it exists now ?

And like I said, I'm tired of being always blamed

What can be blamed is negativity. Pessimism is ok if it is brought forward with rational arguments, not sentiments. Your post is just negative sentiments complaining about other people sentiments. It's useless and heavy for everyone.

I hope for a fast trend reversal, so I could buy my alts and win some money and gradually distance myself from this cesspool

You hope. Yes. But this is not the page for hope. Hope blinds reason and rational judgement. Here we discuss how to plan and take position in a way that makes the most sense, regardless of future outcomes. You chose the wrong post to complain about positive thinking.
Who is forcing you to come read this page and post things here ? Is the bitcoin market forcing you either way ?

I want to pistol-whip anyone who will start whining that this would happen if I would say more positive things and cheer ccmf together with the mindless drones.

First, you are the one bringing "whining" in this post. People will put it back at you. And because you are so entrenched in this whining you will see it as originating from them while it is in you only. Your post shows that you are a whining person and nobody is whining here apart from you.
And again, bitcoin does not need positive statements made in this forum to be a strong store of value.
May positive statements be made if it proves its worth, not otherwise.