rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;)

[ErisDiscordia]

well articulated post

[snip]

As Terrence McKenna said, We are a part of Nature, we come from it. Just as an apple tree apples, the Earth peoples. 

This was actually Alan Watts, not the psychedelic bard. Well stated otherwise - Bitcoin is here to disrupt our perception of money and in that process might even make itself useless. But that will be a sign of progress and a good thing if it happens. Personally I don't think we are heading into a moneyless society any time soon. Just the concept of money and how we use it will be more clearly defined and understood by a wider range of people, thus allowing it to have more desirable characteristics. With digital, frictionless currencies, money can become just a way of expressing and keeping track who and what is valued by society in general instead of a means of enslavement.

[1714490496]

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[1714490496]

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[MatTheCat]

This was actually Alan Watts, not the psychedelic bard. Well stated otherwise - Bitcoin is here to disrupt our perception of money and in that process might even make itself useless. But that will be a sign of progress and a good thing if it happens. Personally I don't think we are heading into a moneyless society any time soon. Just the concept of money and how we use it will be more clearly defined and understood by a wider range of people, thus allowing it to have more desirable characteristics. With digital, frictionless currencies, money can become just a way of expressing and keeping track who and what is valued by society in general instead of a means of enslavement.

You don't reckon?

How old are you? Are you old enough to remember how you got paid your wages, and bought and paid for most things in the 80's. 95% Cash, 5% Cheque book?

and then electronic banking came along and by the mid 90s, 95% electronic payments, 5% cash?

I would suggest that we are almost already living in a cashless society.

[ErisDiscordia]

This was actually Alan Watts, not the psychedelic bard. Well stated otherwise - Bitcoin is here to disrupt our perception of money and in that process might even make itself useless. But that will be a sign of progress and a good thing if it happens. Personally I don't think we are heading into a moneyless society any time soon. Just the concept of money and how we use it will be more clearly defined and understood by a wider range of people, thus allowing it to have more desirable characteristics. With digital, frictionless currencies, money can become just a way of expressing and keeping track who and what is valued by society in general instead of a means of enslavement.

You don't reckon?

How old are you? Are you old enough to remember how you got paid your wages, and bought and paid for most things in the 80's. 95% Cash, 5% Cheque book?

and then electronic banking came along and by the mid 90s, 95% electronic payments, 5% cash?

I would suggest that we are almost already living in a cashless society.

If we're talking about a cashless society then I agree - I think we'll be seeing that pretty soon.

I was talking about a moneyless society, though. One where the concept of money itself has faded into obscurity and been replaced by a radically different form of resource allocation. I can't see that coming any time soon (sorry Zeitgeisters).

[Its About Sharing]

well articulated post

[snip]

As Terrence McKenna said, We are a part of Nature, we come from it. Just as an apple tree apples, the Earth peoples. 

This was actually Alan Watts, not the psychedelic bard. Well stated otherwise - Bitcoin is here to disrupt our perception of money and in that process might even make itself useless. But that will be a sign of progress and a good thing if it happens. Personally I don't think we are heading into a moneyless society any time soon. Just the concept of money and how we use it will be more clearly defined and understood by a wider range of people, thus allowing it to have more desirable characteristics. With digital, frictionless currencies, money can become just a way of expressing and keeping track who and what is valued by society in general instead of a means of enslavement.

eheheh, I listened to those two guys so much. I actually combined the two there. I remember now that it was Watts with the Apples and Peoples example. And thanks for that link, I'm going to show it in class. ;-)

But it was McKenna who said something along the lines of "We come from nature, we are of it, and those in control only think they are control. And if you think you are
larger than nature and can control it, then no no no little man, think again." I chopped that up bad, heard it in a podcast years ago and can't find the text. Watts often
spoke a bit similarly I believe, been years since I've listened to him.

My hope is that BTC, being as disruptive as it is, is going to get people really questioning what money is and was. It will help redefine money for us. I like what Andreas Anonopolous said about Bitcoin being a language of money: "I started thinking about currency as a means of expression. You see, money at the very root of it is a language, it’s a language that we use to express value to each other." Taken from this talk: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/04/andreas-antonopoulos-cryptocurrency-is-a-language/ Funnily enough, I have often referred to Andreas as the Terrence McKenna of Cryptos. He is a Bard as well.

I do see BTC as something to usher in something that is beyond the event horizon of most. At this point I can smell it buy can't quite define what is cooking. 

Regarding not being close to a moneyless society, I think the number of variables to find out that answer is huge and don't put it past nature to point us in that direction, maybe gracefully, maybe violently. Anything can happen when you change those variables. I'm not saying it does happen soon however as it looks decades away minimally from our current society.

Nice post,
IAS

[TERA]

One option with custom bots is to use the API to make things more efficient, but stop short of trying to make an algorithm to automate all the trading.

Exactly. I want a bot that I can use to automate certain instructions at occasional times when I tell it to, so that I don't have to do them manually. This might include:

1. After I place an order, continually modify the order to outbid/outask other traders by $.01.

2. Buy/sell on a cross of the 1H or 4H MACD once I have decided that this is what I want to do - So I can stop watching the MACD and go to sleep. It wouldn't do this all the time - just a one-time thing when I tell it to.

[zimmah]

I set up a few automated charts here for anyone interested:
http://ripple.tech-trader.net/?pair=BTC-USD

Main value of the algos there are the trendlines and support/resistance drawing, which are strength-weighted based on how well the levels are tested.  I'm also working on a few automated strategies for the trading itself if anyone's interested in collaborating.

I'm mainly watching to see if the support at $550 holds.  If not, I'd expect a test of the next closest trendline below that.

The buy signal from Tech Trader a few days back ended up working quite well.  Is anyone else taking an automated approach to this?

I think the divergence pattern was obvious and didn't need any tools. The eye looking at raw price and volume is the best tool.

The point of my post was that the automation is good enough to catch and trade these setups on its own. I didn't mean you needed it as a crutch to guide your trading. That's not what it's meant for.  I was asking if anyone was doing anything like this as well (fully automated swing trading, not just using tools). My own trading is still often better than the automation, but it's nice to know I can walk away if I needed to or focus on other things with my time.

I'm looking into writing a trading bot, but I don't know how to make one yet, I'm trying to learn it. I don't trust third party bots so I want to make it myself.

Don't. They cannot see what people can see. Trade yourself, even if it's two trades a day. You're so much better on your own than using bots.

Well, more correctly i was thinking about an arbitrage bot, which do not really need market knowledge that much, they only have to know if the arbitrage will be profitable or not.

[elebit]

1. After I place an order, continually modify the order to outbid/outask other traders by $.01.

I don't think you want this. Think about what the result would be if two people used this same logic on the same exchange...

2. Buy/sell on a cross of the 1H or 4H MACD once I have decided that this is what I want to do - So I can stop watching the MACD and go to sleep. It wouldn't do this all the time - just a one-time thing when I tell it to.

Sounds simple enough. Is there a authoritative data source for the MACD or do you calculate it yourself?

[ErisDiscordia]

eheheh, I listened to those two guys so much. I actually combined the two there. I remember now that it was Watts with the Apples and Peoples example. And thanks for that link, I'm going to show it in class. ;-)

Watts & McKenna, together with Robert Anton Wilson are something of a trinity of people who shaped my way of thinking more than any others. I have pretty much listened to everything ever recorded by them, many things more than once. This is how I can tell from your way of communicating, that you did, too

All three of them had a very clear understanding of the dangerous hubris of trying to "improve" upon the immense complexity of the natural order by using universal systems thought up with our tiny monkey brains. George Carlin understood this as well and might have articulated this particular point most clearly.

Reality is made of language and money is a language, too. The sooner we understand this on a society-wide cultural level, the sooner we can begin repairing the damage wrought by letting a handful of individuals define reality through language and control it from the top down, where they don't have any accurate feedback about what is going on anywhere and thus mess up everything.

Agreed on Andreas as the McKenna of Bitcoin. I've had that thought occur to me, as well. Seems we think alike

[AlexGR]

Reality is made of language and money is a language, too.

If you take the language and make it programming language, it's spot on.

Some of the scientists who are not so afraid to step out of linear/group thinking are beginning to understand and express that the fabric of reality is information and code, while the bing bang is something like ...a PC "booting" loading the OS.

This reality has hardcoded constants for what constitutes "money". These constants are gold and silver.

When fiat money was adopted, it wasn't really a systemic rebellion of humans vs the "program". Fiat was primarily used by the Elite so that the commoners can have their paper scam while they hoard the gold. So it was still recognized that gold is the #1 and paper was just a substitute so that they can acquire more of it. Gold was considered too precious to be in circulation and owned by the billions of people, so it was "devalued" in the eyes of the public and rendered "useless" compared to fiat money - which allowed the debt-slavery system to leech people of their resources and gold.

Bitcoin represents a systemic rebellion because it is "coded" money. The people living inside the coded virtual reality have now coded their own money to bypass existing structures. This dynamic is extremely fierce because multiple factors collide:

- Gold and Silver are hardcoded so they can't be beaten
- The fiat scam is vulnerable to the Bitcoin model - although the political power can influence adoption
- The global electronic currency which they have been planning now has a better "alternative" (Bitcoin) which will not be issued as debt or controlled by the Elite in the same manner (hierarchical/centralized vs P2P)

[ErisDiscordia]

Bitcoin represents a systemic rebellion because it is "coded" money. The people living inside the coded virtual reality have now coded their own money to bypass existing structures. This dynamic is extremely fierce because multiple factors collide:

Thank you for this interesting perspective.

Robert Anton Wilson has said that the future war(s) will be between those who would like to program themselves vs. those who would like to program everybody else.

Substantial changes in our society will not come about without a change of our culture - which can be thought of as our collective operating system. This in turn goes hand in hand with our individual operating systems. At the moment most people aren't even aware that their worldview is software running on their local hardware (their brain) and thus simply acquire and act out whatever operating system happens to be pushed onto them by their culture or sub-culture.

Those who are in the process of learning to program their own minds have so far been short on options how to act out their alternative programs, because (among other problems) the means of expressing value have been monopolized by the same entities who control the cultural narrative.

Now that there is an alternative means of expressing value I expect this to reinforce the already ongoing paradigm shift away from our minds being programmed by our culture and towards self-programming. I fully expect the emergence of cryptocurrencies to have a profound effect on our culture and by extension on our modes of societal organization. And I'm looking forward to it!

[Wekkel]

Powerful stuff, thanks. I found one of his books: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/downloads/05%20Quantum%20Psychology.pdf

[Its About Sharing]

eheheh, I listened to those two guys so much. I actually combined the two there. I remember now that it was Watts with the Apples and Peoples example. And thanks for that link, I'm going to show it in class. ;-)

Watts & McKenna, together with Robert Anton Wilson are something of a trinity of people who shaped my way of thinking more than any others. I have pretty much listened to everything ever recorded by them, many things more than once. This is how I can tell from your way of communicating, that you did, too

All three of them had a very clear understanding of the dangerous hubris of trying to "improve" upon the immense complexity of the natural order by using universal systems thought up with our tiny monkey brains. George Carlin understood this as well and might have articulated this particular point most clearly.

Reality is made of language and money is a language, too. The sooner we understand this on a society-wide cultural level, the sooner we can begin repairing the damage wrought by letting a handful of individuals define reality through language and control it from the top down, where they don't have any accurate feedback about what is going on anywhere and thus mess up everything.

Agreed on Andreas as the McKenna of Bitcoin. I've had that thought occur to me, as well. Seems we think alike

For good measure I recommend throwing in some J. Krishnamurti into the trio as well. And of course, to "do" some of what the trio said - Yes, if you are open to it the Shamanistic plants that have been used for 10's of thousands of years and much safer that what the doctor gives you; Best way to switch O.S. systems, but not for the faint of heart. When you have the red pill, you can't "exactly" go back. (I've heard   )

McKenna focused on direct experience and my understanding/observation is that we are nothing but philosophers and spewers of information without it. Go beyond it. We are led by the mind, which by definition is of the past and old (J. Krishnamurti). I still quote on occasion, but I hope the point is made.

Not really off track when we think of the revolutionary nature at stake here. The apparent disharmony at work here, to me, is just a play of something much larger which we apparently are a part of. I actually enjoy the way Bill Hicks explained this all as a ride https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0.

So, Bitcoin as language touches a part of the brain that is inherent - our language centers. When we start to see/use/understand money differently, we start to see life differently. Language forms our world in large part and as we use money (a form of language) differently, our world, beliefs, reality, etc. will adjust. Not to say there won't be bumps along the way...  In a very real way, the effect of Cryptos on us will be a consciousness shift, and I say an expansion, how much is a bit up to the individual and how open you already are (hence expansion) - how deep do you want to take it? It is, and will be, a step towards a reboot for many people.  And with disruption on top of disruption coming our way, there is going to be a synergistic effect that takes place on our minds and hence, on our reality.

Back to the more direct topic at hand, we are again nearing a critical level. My Gann chart says we are one some support but bigger support is below and the FBI auction on Friday is probably making some nervous people. But, once those coins are off the table, that is just that many fewer BTC's. (Until following auctions) The recent trendline shows support at 540 ish on my chart. We can flash crash lower, but I only would see it as a flash crash as big money wants in.

IAS

[ErisDiscordia]

Powerful stuff, thanks. I found one of his books: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/downloads/05%20Quantum%20Psychology.pdf

I wholeheartedly recommend you read his book "Prometheus rising". In my opinion one of the most overlooked, yet most important books of the 20th century. "Quantum Psychology" is more like a manual for group experimentation. The underlying theories (the 8 circuit model of consciousness ) are explained in a well-informed and witty way in Prometheus rising.

[Wekkel]

Found it 

[rpietila]

It's the time to inform everybody that the III Bitcoin Supernode Meeting will commence tomorrow in Malla castle. So I will not be too active to write in here during the rest of the week. Hopefully the others present will show how the life here looks like.

[molecular]

Found it  

Damn. I read this 20 years ago and it openend up a whole world for me, quite transformative. Still finding coins on the street, btw, which was one of the exercises if I remember correctly ;-).

I really enjoyed the discussion above (ErisDiscordia, It's About Sharing,...). Listened to some Watts talk (about the "self", mainly), who I hadn't known previously.

If you add Watts (self = the universal self), Wilson (self-programming) and Antonopulous (Bitcoin is language), what do you get? Well, interesting times, I'd say...

[Bagatell]

Still finding coins on the street, btw, which was one of the exercises if I remember correctly ;-).

Me too. I found some tobacco and a caramelo yesterday!

[Parazyd]

It's the time to inform everybody that the III Bitcoin Supernode Meeting will commence tomorrow in Malla castle. So I will not be too active to write in here during the rest of the week. Hopefully the others present will show how the life here looks like.

Don't forget to take photos!

[Wary]

If you add Watts (self = the universal self), Wilson (self-programming) and Antonopulous (Bitcoin is language), what do you get?

You'll get something like "universal self should self-program itself using bitcoin programming language".

[ErisDiscordia]

Still finding coins on the street, btw, which was one of the exercises if I remember correctly ;-).

Me too. I found some tobacco and a caramelo yesterday!

Yes, Cosmic Coincidence Control Center works in mysterious ways. I keep getting haunted by the number 23. Can you imagine what was happening on FRIDAY the 23.5. this year? Pure chaos