rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;)

[giveBTCpls]

http://imgur.com/TYsKlqZ

Meanwhile in spain: Unemployed, barely can pay bills, my pet is sick to boot. On top of that: I learned about Bitcoin back in 2009 but didn't invest because it was always linked to criminal activity so didn't look into it, as a result, I see it on mainstream news 4 years later about how it went to 700 dollar a coin. Thank you Bitcoin for making me suicidal for life.

A lot of people have some heartbreak stories including myself, loosing 111 bitcoins for not taking proper care of them, but the bottom line is bitcoins are still cheap. Look at the microsoft price where it was after 5 years, $1 on beginning of 1991

But Bitcoin has already reached Gold-tier prices... can you really compare that graph to Bitcoin? What you are suggesting is Bitcoin has barely seen a rise in price yet compared to what's to come. I think this is plain insane and inceptions my mind. How could a single unit of something be so valuable? If we scalate your graph to Bitcoin what you are saying is that these stories about Bitcoin reaching 100K dollars will become true. I think this is plain nuts and delusional. How could a single BTC have the purchasing power of 100K dollars? Of course, it could always mean that Bitcoin goes to 100K and dollar decreases to the point 100K have the purchasing power of 10K... what im saying is, if what you say is right and taking into account the dollar doesn't collapse, and taking as a reference the current dollar purchasing power, one single BTC in that supossed future of yours would mean it can buy you a house. I don't really thing this is possible. How absurdly rich would be the guys that mined at the very early stages or invested when it was worth peanuts, and now have shit tons of BTC? They would become the new Rothchilds. That's just too nuts.

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[giveBTCpls]

http://imgur.com/TYsKlqZ

Meanwhile in spain: Unemployed, barely can pay bills, my pet is sick to boot. On top of that: I learned about Bitcoin back in 2009 but didn't invest because it was always linked to criminal activity so didn't look into it, as a result, I see it on mainstream news 4 years later about how it went to 700 dollar a coin. Thank you Bitcoin for making me suicidal for life.

Yep -  i found out about Bitcoin a few years back too..(not sure exactly when) guess what?  i didn't invest either, as i thought it wouldn't last.. was only €4 at the time..
Then it was only associated with Silk Road.. I didn't invest then either.. too dodgy, and I assumed the powers that be would eventually shut it down and my investment would be worth nothing.
(I was both right and very wrong!)

But, I did buy some.. and kept buying what i could afford (to lose) which was sensible.. but i wish i invested every penny i could afford period.
If only i could have seen the future then.

It doesn't matter really. I have some now.. I can't see the future from here.. but i can guess better now with hindsight. (hint: i will be awesome, and probably well beyond expectation)

Buy what you can afford.. as much as you can.. weekly, monthly.. whatever.. keep it safe and hold on.
This is 1000% times better than saving..
This is future saving on steroids.
Do it!

Yes, I do think you are right, im trying to buy as much as possible, but with my little savings I can get like what.. 0.05 a month. For this to change my life, Bitcoin would need to go 100K a coin, literally. I see this as too far fetched. This would mean total adoption, surpassing paypal, surpassing everything, being the king, and the demand being ridiculously high. Let's hope what now seems extremely ridiculous becomes true tho.

[Odalv]

http://imgur.com/TYsKlqZ

Meanwhile in spain: Unemployed, barely can pay bills, my pet is sick to boot. On top of that: I learned about Bitcoin back in 2009 but didn't invest because it was always linked to criminal activity so didn't look into it, as a result, I see it on mainstream news 4 years later about how it went to 700 dollar a coin. Thank you Bitcoin for making me suicidal for life.

Yep -  i found out about Bitcoin a few years back too..(not sure exactly when) guess what?  i didn't invest either, as i thought it wouldn't last.. was only €4 at the time..
Then it was only associated with Silk Road.. I didn't invest then either.. too dodgy, and I assumed the powers that be would eventually shut it down and my investment would be worth nothing.
(I was both right and very wrong!)

But, I did buy some.. and kept buying what i could afford (to lose) which was sensible.. but i wish i invested every penny i could afford period.
If only i could have seen the future then.

It doesn't matter really. I have some now.. I can't see the future from here.. but i can guess better now with hindsight. (hint: i will be awesome, and probably well beyond expectation)

Buy what you can afford.. as much as you can.. weekly, monthly.. whatever.. keep it safe and hold on.
This is 1000% times better than saving..
This is future saving on steroids.
Do it!

Yes, I do think you are right, im trying to buy as much as possible, but with my little savings I can get like what.. 0.05 a month. For this to change my life, Bitcoin would need to go 100K a coin, literally. I see this as too far fetched. This would mean total adoption, surpassing paypal, surpassing everything, being the king, and the demand being ridiculously high. Let's hope what now seems extremely ridiculous becomes true tho.

Buy now while they are cheap. There will be only 21,000,000 BTC ... only 21,000,000 people ( 0,3% of population ) can have whole Bitcoin.

[MNDan]

http://imgur.com/TYsKlqZ

Meanwhile in spain: Unemployed, barely can pay bills, my pet is sick to boot. On top of that: I learned about Bitcoin back in 2009 but didn't invest because it was always linked to criminal activity so didn't look into it, as a result, I see it on mainstream news 4 years later about how it went to 700 dollar a coin. Thank you Bitcoin for making me suicidal for life.

A lot of people have some heartbreak stories including myself, loosing 111 bitcoins for not taking proper care of them, but the bottom line is bitcoins are still cheap. Look at the microsoft price where it was after 5 years, $1 on beginning of 1991

But Bitcoin has already reached Gold-tier prices... can you really compare that graph to Bitcoin? What you are suggesting is Bitcoin has barely seen a rise in price yet compared to what's to come. I think this is plain insane and inceptions my mind. How could a single unit of something be so valuable? If we scalate your graph to Bitcoin what you are saying is that these stories about Bitcoin reaching 100K dollars will become true. I think this is plain nuts and delusional. How could a single BTC have the purchasing power of 100K dollars? Of course, it could always mean that Bitcoin goes to 100K and dollar decreases to the point 100K have the purchasing power of 10K... what im saying is, if what you say is right and taking into account the dollar doesn't collapse, and taking as a reference the current dollar purchasing power, one single BTC in that supossed future of yours would mean it can buy you a house. I don't really thing this is possible. How absurdly rich would be the guys that mined at the very early stages or invested when it was worth peanuts, and now have shit tons of BTC? They would become the new Rothchilds. That's just too nuts.

Someone needs to take a brief course on decimal points and how they can be used to divide up large things. 

[Bitcopia]

http://imgur.com/TYsKlqZ

Meanwhile in spain: Unemployed, barely can pay bills, my pet is sick to boot. On top of that: I learned about Bitcoin back in 2009 but didn't invest because it was always linked to criminal activity so didn't look into it, as a result, I see it on mainstream news 4 years later about how it went to 700 dollar a coin. Thank you Bitcoin for making me suicidal for life.

A lot of people have some heartbreak stories including myself, loosing 111 bitcoins for not taking proper care of them, but the bottom line is bitcoins are still cheap. Look at the microsoft price where it was after 5 years, $1 on beginning of 1991

But Bitcoin has already reached Gold-tier prices... can you really compare that graph to Bitcoin? What you are suggesting is Bitcoin has barely seen a rise in price yet compared to what's to come. I think this is plain insane and inceptions my mind. How could a single unit of something be so valuable? If we scalate your graph to Bitcoin what you are saying is that these stories about Bitcoin reaching 100K dollars will become true. I think this is plain nuts and delusional. How could a single BTC have the purchasing power of 100K dollars? Of course, it could always mean that Bitcoin goes to 100K and dollar decreases to the point 100K have the purchasing power of 10K... what im saying is, if what you say is right and taking into account the dollar doesn't collapse, and taking as a reference the current dollar purchasing power, one single BTC in that supossed future of yours would mean it can buy you a house. I don't really thing this is possible. How absurdly rich would be the guys that mined at the very early stages or invested when it was worth peanuts, and now have shit tons of BTC? They would become the new Rothchilds. That's just too nuts.

Someone needs to take a brief course on decimal points and how they can be used to divide up large things.  

+1

There are currently about 1.3 quadrillion units of BTC. Each one can be used as a unit of account, bit of currency, speculative investment, etc. Some services already have options to display account balances in mBTC. However, we need more services to implement such features as the default display for laypeople who might have a hard time understanding this concept.

The early miners will not become the Rothschilds. There are too many early miners and they have all sold or spent BTC along the way. BTC wealth distribution is more equal than fiat distribution, and there is still more to be distributed, more than 30% actually.

[vuduchyld]

+1

There are currently about 1.3 quadrillion units of BTC. Each one can be used as a unit of account, bit of currency, speculative investment, etc. Some services already have options to display account balances in mBTC. However, we need more services to implement such features as the default display for laypeople who might have a hard time understanding this concept.

The early miners will not become the Rothschilds. There are too many early miners and they have all sold or spent BTC along the way. BTC wealth distribution is more equal than fiat distribution, and there is still more to be distributed, more than 30% actually.

I'm not sure where you get the info that early miners have sold or spent.  The last piece of info I read indicated that 1000 people own about 50% of the as-of-yet mined coins.  It's actually currently distributed more unequally than fiat.

[Biodom]

Buy now while they are cheap. There will be only 21,000,000 BTC ... only 21,000,000 people ( 0,3% of population ) can have whole Bitcoin.

There are at least 29 million millionaires in the world, so even an average millionaire cannot have a whole bitcoin, but a fraction of it.

[bitrider]

http://imgur.com/TYsKlqZ

Meanwhile in spain: Unemployed, barely can pay bills, my pet is sick to boot. On top of that: I learned about Bitcoin back in 2009 but didn't invest because it was always linked to criminal activity so didn't look into it, as a result, I see it on mainstream news 4 years later about how it went to 700 dollar a coin. Thank you Bitcoin for making me suicidal for life.

Past is for losers. Past actually doesn't exist at all (quantum-physics proved it many times).
There is only you as an observer of the universe and the present moment. Then what do you do ?

Are you complaining ?
If yes, you are doomed.

Are you fucking trying hard in something without caring about consequence and what people think ?
If yes, you'll have the world at your feet in no time.

+1 Everything is NOW. Wake up!!

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

But Bitcoin has already reached Gold-tier prices... can you really compare that graph to Bitcoin? What you are suggesting is Bitcoin has barely seen a rise in price yet compared to what's to come. I think this is plain insane and inceptions my mind. How could a single unit of something be so valuable? If we scalate your graph to Bitcoin what you are saying is that these stories about Bitcoin reaching 100K dollars will become true. I think this is plain nuts and delusional. How could a single BTC have the purchasing power of 100K dollars? Of course, it could always mean that Bitcoin goes to 100K and dollar decreases to the point 100K have the purchasing power of 10K... what im saying is, if what you say is right and taking into account the dollar doesn't collapse, and taking as a reference the current dollar purchasing power, one single BTC in that supossed future of yours would mean it can buy you a house. I don't really thing this is possible. How absurdly rich would be the guys that mined at the very early stages or invested when it was worth peanuts, and now have shit tons of BTC? They would become the new Rothchilds. That's just too nuts.

1) Currency unit size is arbitrary. Replace "bitcoins reaching $100K" with "bits reaching 10 cents" and see how the argument sounds.

2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity

3) No the early miners won't become the next Rothchilds...at least not necessarily. They have to sell a lot to balance risk along the way. See discussion of dishoarding rates here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345065.0

4) This kind of out-of-hand dismissal is exactly why you missed the boat before. The boat is only halfway through its journey. You don't have to miss it again

[gentlemand]

But Bitcoin has already reached Gold-tier prices...

Er, there's a wee bit more more than 21 million ounces of gold.

[molecular]

"good" in the sense of "fitting". I don't want to sell because it is such a small part  100oz is not worth the hassle for me currently 

hehe. I remember you selling 2 ounces to me to get a little reputation on this forum. Times change

[Pente]

http://imgur.com/TYsKlqZ

Meanwhile in spain: Unemployed, barely can pay bills, my pet is sick to boot. On top of that: I learned about Bitcoin back in 2009 but didn't invest because it was always linked to criminal activity so didn't look into it, as a result, I see it on mainstream news 4 years later about how it went to 700 dollar a coin. Thank you Bitcoin for making me suicidal for life.

If you are feeling suicidal, then there are problably deeper issues than just missing out on buying when bitcoins were pennies each. I can point to dozens of major episodes in my life and say "if I had only known that...".

Depression is usually caused by some set of cognitive distortions. I would suggest reading "The Road less Traveled" by Scott M. Peck and as counterbalance "The Psychology of Self-Esteem" by Nathaniel Brandon. Send me a PM if you can't afford them and would like a text copy. I use to deal with serious depression in the past and it was caused by some seriously flawed thinking.

As for missing the train on Bitcoin. It is very unlikely. The value (capitalization) seems to be following metcalfes law, so as more people adopt Bitcoin, it will continue to grow A LOT.

A price of over a million dollars per coin within 20 years is fully reasonable according to my analysis. I would expect it much sooner, but major mining companies sell most of their coins to continue operations and I believe this will start to create a huge downward pressure in the future slowing growth. On the positive side, it may create more stability though.

[Roy Badami]

http://imgur.com/TYsKlqZ

Fix your castle man...

Because of popular opinion, I don't  

In the last conference, the people there voted in favor of a castle-like castle instead of a palatial one. So the conferences this august (8-18, thread in the appropriate event section), and late september, are still in candlelight.

The outbuildings with their 11 hotel rooms, 4 living rooms, conference room, kitchen, sauna and altogether 9 bathrooms, are in very good condition as some of them were built last month, and some of them undergo a renovation this/next month.

Question: do you still own that physical silver? I remember talking to you some time ago, I'm was not decided 100% but now I think I should buy some. What was the price you were selling at?

I have the silver but it's a good % of my portfolio now. If you come to Malla, Estonia to take delivery, I can sell you 500oz in Maples. The price would be about 15% markup to the bulk Royal Canadian mint pricing (which I cannot find anywhere... )

Do you Does your company in Estonia still sell physical silver VAT free and ship within the EU?  Or is that no more?

I know there are other places I can buy VAT free silver from Estonia (for fiat, at least) but I don't know much about them.  Of course, the idea of a conference by candlelight suddenly encourages me to come to Malla :-)

Although mainly, what little silver I have I mainly hold through https://www.bullionvault.com/ - and that's VAT free because it stays in LBMA vaults.  I quite like SLW too (and hold a little) - would be interested to know your thoughts on it?

roy

[Dragonkiller]

http://imgur.com/TYsKlqZ

Meanwhile in spain: Unemployed, barely can pay bills, my pet is sick to boot. On top of that: I learned about Bitcoin back in 2009 but didn't invest because it was always linked to criminal activity so didn't look into it, as a result, I see it on mainstream news 4 years later about how it went to 700 dollar a coin. Thank you Bitcoin for making me suicidal for life.

Yep -  i found out about Bitcoin a few years back too..(not sure exactly when) guess what?  i didn't invest either, as i thought it wouldn't last.. was only €4 at the time..
Then it was only associated with Silk Road.. I didn't invest then either.. too dodgy, and I assumed the powers that be would eventually shut it down and my investment would be worth nothing.
(I was both right and very wrong!)

But, I did buy some.. and kept buying what i could afford (to lose) which was sensible.. but i wish i invested every penny i could afford period.
If only i could have seen the future then.

It doesn't matter really. I have some now.. I can't see the future from here.. but i can guess better now with hindsight. (hint: i will be awesome, and probably well beyond expectation)

Buy what you can afford.. as much as you can.. weekly, monthly.. whatever.. keep it safe and hold on.
This is 1000% times better than saving..
This is future saving on steroids.
Do it!

Yes, I do think you are right, im trying to buy as much as possible, but with my little savings I can get like what.. 0.05 a month. For this to change my life, Bitcoin would need to go 100K a coin, literally. I see this as too far fetched. This would mean total adoption, surpassing paypal, surpassing everything, being the king, and the demand being ridiculously high. Let's hope what now seems extremely ridiculous becomes true tho.

Depending on the size of your total net assets (I am thinking go more aggressive if it is a small portfolio) put up to a maximum of 80% into BTC, keep the other 20% in gold. I would not touch stocks right now or real estate (although that depends on where you live).

Get a job if you don't have one already. Spend only on necessities, put whatever is left in bitcoin.

Don't trade and keep your coins safe. I have no doubt that if bitcoin is still around in 5-10 years, it will be ~$50k+. Good luck and keep your head up. As someone else said, you need to go through pain in order to feel joy 

[luigi1111]

But Bitcoin has already reached Gold-tier prices... can you really compare that graph to Bitcoin? What you are suggesting is Bitcoin has barely seen a rise in price yet compared to what's to come. I think this is plain insane and inceptions my mind. How could a single unit of something be so valuable? If we scalate your graph to Bitcoin what you are saying is that these stories about Bitcoin reaching 100K dollars will become true. I think this is plain nuts and delusional. How could a single BTC have the purchasing power of 100K dollars? Of course, it could always mean that Bitcoin goes to 100K and dollar decreases to the point 100K have the purchasing power of 10K... what im saying is, if what you say is right and taking into account the dollar doesn't collapse, and taking as a reference the current dollar purchasing power, one single BTC in that supossed future of yours would mean it can buy you a house. I don't really thing this is possible. How absurdly rich would be the guys that mined at the very early stages or invested when it was worth peanuts, and now have shit tons of BTC? They would become the new Rothchilds. That's just too nuts.

1) Currency unit size is arbitrary. Replace "bitcoins reaching $100K" with "bits reaching 10 cents" and see how the argument sounds.

2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity

3) No the early miners won't become the next Rothchilds...at least not necessarily. They have to sell a lot to balance risk along the way. See discussion of dishoarding rates here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345065.0

4) This kind of out-of-hand dismissal is exactly why you missed the boat before. The boat is only halfway through its journey. You don't have to miss it again

#1 basically answers his whole post.  

On #3, just for reference, at $100k USD/BTC rate, Satoshi's estimated holdings would "only" be worth $100 billion or so, which, while being an outrageous amount to the average person, is only about 5 Twitters' worth (in the big picture, not that much). Overall market cap would be in the $1.5 trillion range, which absolutely puts BTC in the "it's a big deal" category (but still not nearly replacing fiat).

#4, BUY BUY BUY.

Edit: to further expound on #3, a large holder of, say, 10,000 BTC would be worth $1 billion. $1 billion does not a Rothschild make. Also, people don't just typically hold everything they have while the price climbs >100x.

[prophetx]

i remember reading some article when bitcoin hit $1, i think some time in early 2010... i remember thinking to myself "dude this shit will be worth $1000" within 5 years...

then i got distracted by a bunch of work, etc so I never set up a miner. blah.

i've actually never bought any BTC with my own money or mined that much (maybe 0.0005), just providing services.

[giveBTCpls]

But Bitcoin has already reached Gold-tier prices... can you really compare that graph to Bitcoin? What you are suggesting is Bitcoin has barely seen a rise in price yet compared to what's to come. I think this is plain insane and inceptions my mind. How could a single unit of something be so valuable? If we scalate your graph to Bitcoin what you are saying is that these stories about Bitcoin reaching 100K dollars will become true. I think this is plain nuts and delusional. How could a single BTC have the purchasing power of 100K dollars? Of course, it could always mean that Bitcoin goes to 100K and dollar decreases to the point 100K have the purchasing power of 10K... what im saying is, if what you say is right and taking into account the dollar doesn't collapse, and taking as a reference the current dollar purchasing power, one single BTC in that supossed future of yours would mean it can buy you a house. I don't really thing this is possible. How absurdly rich would be the guys that mined at the very early stages or invested when it was worth peanuts, and now have shit tons of BTC? They would become the new Rothchilds. That's just too nuts.

1) Currency unit size is arbitrary. Replace "bitcoins reaching $100K" with "bits reaching 10 cents" and see how the argument sounds.

2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity

3) No the early miners won't become the next Rothchilds...at least not necessarily. They have to sell a lot to balance risk along the way. See discussion of dishoarding rates here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345065.0

4) This kind of out-of-hand dismissal is exactly why you missed the boat before. The boat is only halfway through its journey. You don't have to miss it again

True, but price would you expect once "the boat has reached it's destination"? Thats what im trying to fathom, im also failing to understand how that Microsoft graph can apply to Bitcoin. How much would 1 BTC cost in the equivalent of that graph in 2013? (if Bitcoin was in 1990 price).
The increase in price would be nuts. Thats what I don't get.
In any case yes, im trying to get as much BTC as possible, hard to do when you are fiat poor tho.

[giveBTCpls]

http://imgur.com/TYsKlqZ

Meanwhile in spain: Unemployed, barely can pay bills, my pet is sick to boot. On top of that: I learned about Bitcoin back in 2009 but didn't invest because it was always linked to criminal activity so didn't look into it, as a result, I see it on mainstream news 4 years later about how it went to 700 dollar a coin. Thank you Bitcoin for making me suicidal for life.

If you are feeling suicidal, then there are problably deeper issues than just missing out on buying when bitcoins were pennies each. I can point to dozens of major episodes in my life and say "if I had only known that...".

Depression is usually caused by some set of cognitive distortions. I would suggest reading "The Road less Traveled" by Scott M. Peck and as counterbalance "The Psychology of Self-Esteem" by Nathaniel Brandon. Send me a PM if you can't afford them and would like a text copy. I use to deal with serious depression in the past and it was caused by some seriously flawed thinking.

As for missing the train on Bitcoin. It is very unlikely. The value (capitalization) seems to be following metcalfes law, so as more people adopt Bitcoin, it will continue to grow A LOT.

A price of over a million dollars per coin within 20 years is fully reasonable according to my analysis. I would expect it much sooner, but major mining companies sell most of their coins to continue operations and I believe this will start to create a huge downward pressure in the future slowing growth. On the positive side, it may create more stability though.

Hi, thanks for imput, im not obviously going to kill myself over it lol... it's just a comment. Im aware tho, of how infinitely better would my life and my family's life be had I invested in Bitcoin before the insane price increase. It's specially annoying as I saw it a lot of times back in 2009, but I don't want to be involved in criminal shit I though... ahh fuck.

As for the price increase in 20 years.. what would the context be like in a 1 million dollar = 1 bitcoin scenareo?

Also, mining is true that decreases price or makes a resistance for it to grow faster as big miners dump constantly to pay for bills and whatnot, but take into account (as far as I know) the further we go in time the harder it will be to mine so less quantity of coins will be dumped monthly.

[elebit]

had I invested in Bitcoin before the insane price increase. It's specially annoying as I saw it a lot of times back in 2009, but I don't want to be involved in criminal shit I though... ahh fuck.

You didn't research it very thoroughly if you thought it was criminal. If it's any consolation, thousands of people researched it more than you did and even contributed to the community without buying in. There may be hundreds of reasons, that you didn't have money at the time, that paypal blocked your account and you got burned etc. etc.

The question is how many thought "omfg $100, I really should have bought some earlier, I'll wait until they get less expensive" and are kicking themselves now. The major exchange turned out to be a scam, China decided aganist merchant adoption, and not once did we dip under $400 for very long.

[giveBTCpls]

had I invested in Bitcoin before the insane price increase. It's specially annoying as I saw it a lot of times back in 2009, but I don't want to be involved in criminal shit I though... ahh fuck.

You didn't research it very thoroughly if you thought it was criminal. If it's any consolation, thousands of people researched it more than you did and even contributed to the community without buying in. There may be hundreds of reasons, that you didn't have money at the time, that paypal blocked your account and you got burned etc. etc.

The question is how many thought "omfg $100, I really should have bought some earlier, I'll wait until they get less expensive" and are kicking themselves now. The major exchange turned out to be a scam, China decided aganist merchant adoption, and not once did we dip under $400 for very long.

Oh yeah I didn't. I thought "all this people will eventually get screwed". Like they would trace back the coins to the owners and shit. Also I just was scared away by the paedo and drugs stuff, so yeah I just forgot about it and thought it was "some deep web shit".