Wardrick
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Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
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October 23, 2014, 12:15:13 AM |
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Can anyone give me info on the RNG used at Seals With Clubs? Has it been verified/audited by a 3rd party? If not, why so? Any information is appreciated. Micon I know you read through this thread... care to step in?  Beefheart Being able to verify that everything is probably fair would be the only way I'd consistently play at an online poker site for Bitcoin. Idk if it's somethkng with the software they use but it should be fairly easy considering every other successful Btc gambling site can prove their games are provably fair. |
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The trust scores you see are subjective; they will change depending on who you have in your trust list. |
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tspacepilot
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Activity: 1456
Merit: 1076
I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.
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October 23, 2014, 12:15:34 AM |
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Hey there, it's almost time for the donk-down and I actually have time to play and I actually remembered about it before the start. Watch out sealsdudes tspacepilot is gonna donk you out.
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nioc
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Activity: 1624
Merit: 1008
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October 23, 2014, 01:10:56 AM |
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Can anyone give me info on the RNG used at Seals With Clubs? Has it been verified/audited by a 3rd party? If not, why so? Any information is appreciated. Micon I know you read through this thread... care to step in? Beefheart Being able to verify that everything is probably fair would be the only way I'd consistently play at an online poker site for Bitcoin. Idk if it's somethkng with the software they use but it should be fairly easy considering every other successful Btc gambling site can prove their games are provably fair. This has been brought up several times and although I can't give you details, the bottom line is that you can't use the same provably fair techniques for poker that are used for games against the house. As for the RNG, it comes with the Mavens software which is the basis for Seals and has been tested. It's easy to find the info. |
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tspacepilot
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Activity: 1456
Merit: 1076
I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.
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October 23, 2014, 01:16:47 AM |
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Can anyone give me info on the RNG used at Seals With Clubs? Has it been verified/audited by a 3rd party? If not, why so? Any information is appreciated. Micon I know you read through this thread... care to step in? Beefheart Being able to verify that everything is probably fair would be the only way I'd consistently play at an online poker site for Bitcoin. Idk if it's somethkng with the software they use but it should be fairly easy considering every other successful Btc gambling site can prove their games are provably fair. This has been brought up several times and although I can't give you details, the bottom line is that you can't use the same provably fair techniques for poker that are used for games against the house. As for the RNG, it comes with the Mavens software which is the basis for Seals and has been tested. It's easy to find the info. The details would make it actually interesting, though. At the intuitive level, it's not really clear to me why the technique wouldn't work. You pregenerate key pairs and show a public one before each hand (and show the private one after the hand, then the user could verify that the pub/priv keys do combine to generate the hash which is the basis of the hand). That's not much detail either, but it's enough for someone to pick up on this and show how I'm wrong. Oh, btw, sadness. There is no donkdown that I can find. Sadnesss. |
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Dabs
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Activity: 3416
Merit: 1912
The Concierge of Crypto
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October 23, 2014, 02:16:20 AM |
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I found a semi-provably fair method for poker. But it's not easy to implement, and would require a huge renovation of the code.
You see, poker players like to fold or muck their cards. Also you are not meant to see the rest of the deck. But you have to some how prove that the cards you don't see, are actually the cards in the fairly shuffled deck.
You can, of course, easily verify the hole cards that you are holding, and the cards on the table (the flop, river and turn, if shown.)
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tspacepilot
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Activity: 1456
Merit: 1076
I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.
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October 23, 2014, 02:33:25 AM |
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I found a semi-provably fair method for poker. But it's not easy to implement, and would require a huge renovation of the code.
You see, poker players like to fold or muck their cards. Also you are not meant to see the rest of the deck. But you have to some how prove that the cards you don't see, are actually the cards in the fairly shuffled deck.
You can, of course, easily verify the hole cards that you are holding, and the cards on the table (the flop, river and turn, if shown.)
Dabs, really good point about folding/mucking. I wouldn't want a method for proving fairness to reveal my cards after everyone had folded to me. Or to reveal the cards I had folded. How does your method avoid this issue? |
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Dabs
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Activity: 3416
Merit: 1912
The Concierge of Crypto
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October 23, 2014, 02:48:38 AM |
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I found a semi-provably fair method for poker. But it's not easy to implement, and would require a huge renovation of the code.
You see, poker players like to fold or muck their cards. Also you are not meant to see the rest of the deck. But you have to some how prove that the cards you don't see, are actually the cards in the fairly shuffled deck.
You can, of course, easily verify the hole cards that you are holding, and the cards on the table (the flop, river and turn, if shown.)
Dabs, really good point about folding/mucking. I wouldn't want a method for proving fairness to reveal my cards after everyone had folded to me. Or to reveal the cards I had folded. How does your method avoid this issue? It doesn't tell other players their cards, only yours. Each card has a corresponding hash, and the deck has a hash of it's shuffle. If any poker site does this, they would have to completely rework and revamp their clients and the servers. Or you start from scratch. I wanted to do this, but it is an ambitious project, and I would need capital investors, or the like. I posted about it a year ago, no one in this forum is interested and has the money. So it will have to wait. |
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Micon
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Activity: 1232
Merit: 1014
FPV Drone Pilot
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October 23, 2014, 05:53:22 AM |
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Love this discussion.
During some late nights, ST6 & I have dreamed about 2.0 bitcoin poker platforms. IMO blockchain-like HH database, private keys for your hole cards (show just 1 if you want) and the cloud-consensus bitcoin-like method to deal a fair deck to 2 mutually distrusting players.
it's the far future, but we'll eventually build it if given enough time.
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cryptomanik
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Activity: 31
Merit: 0
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October 23, 2014, 06:02:31 AM |
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What is the minimum deposit and cashout here?
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IamNotSure
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October 23, 2014, 07:31:50 AM |
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it's the far future, but we'll eventually build it if given enough time.
Yeah, that's quite a dream ! Maybe you should look into SuperNet platfrom and NeoDice in developpement. They have similar ideas but on a dice level game. Though, I guess poker is just coding over random numbers ! |
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Dabs
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Activity: 3416
Merit: 1912
The Concierge of Crypto
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October 23, 2014, 07:36:27 AM |
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Love this discussion.
During some late nights, ST6 & I have dreamed about 2.0 bitcoin poker platforms. IMO blockchain-like HH database, private keys for your hole cards (show just 1 if you want) and the cloud-consensus bitcoin-like method to deal a fair deck to 2 mutually distrusting players.
it's the far future, but we'll eventually build it if given enough time.
@Micon, that's my dream. Don't forget to include me in your ST6 or whatever. I did go through the equivalent of BUDS where I am. (The Philippine Naval Special Operations Group is considered the counter part of the United States Navy Seals; they have exchanged trident pins more than once.) |
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Pawner
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Activity: 9
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October 23, 2014, 07:41:33 AM |
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What is the minimum deposit and cashout here?
You can contact them or visit their website and see what is it.
Good Luck! |
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notserp
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Activity: 2240
Merit: 1001
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October 23, 2014, 08:51:08 AM |
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What is the minimum deposit and cashout here?
min .01 in and .02 out |
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Beefheart
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October 23, 2014, 12:54:30 PM |
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What is the minimum deposit and cashout here?
min .01 in and .02 out I thought the min deposit was 0.001? (1 chip) |
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dave23
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October 23, 2014, 03:45:06 PM |
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What is the minimum deposit and cashout here?
min .01 in and .02 out I thought the min deposit was 0.001? (1 chip) you can actually deposit any amount, but you don't get chips until the balance exceeds 0.001. |
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wayshegoes
Sr. Member
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Activity: 266
Merit: 250
I lost the liqour money boys...
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October 23, 2014, 05:16:52 PM |
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Is there any deposit fee? I'm convinced that once I sent over 6 chips but only received 5, or something similar. Mining fees doesn't account for it.
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dave23
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October 23, 2014, 05:49:20 PM |
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Is there any deposit fee? I'm convinced that once I sent over 6 chips but only received 5, or something similar. Mining fees doesn't account for it.
you should be able to see the tx on the blockchain to figure out what happened. https://blockchain.info/address/<your deposit address> |
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wayshegoes
Sr. Member
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Activity: 266
Merit: 250
I lost the liqour money boys...
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October 23, 2014, 06:07:48 PM |
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I can try dig it up, but the blockchain shows the amount I entered (can't remember exactly). I was missing exactly .9 of 1 chip (I forgot to account for miners fees resulting in me receiving uneven chip amounts). It was a few weeks back and only a chip so I'm not really bothered but it definitely happened.
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Wardrick
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Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
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October 23, 2014, 06:14:31 PM |
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I can try dig it up, but the blockchain shows the amount I entered (can't remember exactly). I was missing exactly .9 of 1 chip (I forgot to account for miners fees resulting in me receiving uneven chip amounts). It was a few weeks back and only a chip so I'm not really bothered but it definitely happened.
Did you factor in the transaction fee of the BTC being sent from the wallet? |
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wayshegoes
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
I lost the liqour money boys...
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October 23, 2014, 06:17:35 PM
Last edit: October 23, 2014, 06:28:44 PM by wayshegoes |
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I'll dig for the actual transaction now. It's probably too late because I've since lost those chips, but it went something like I sent 0.007 to seals, and ended up with 5.9 chips. The miners fees were the .1, but one chip is missing. Again, I'm not complaining and not that worried over 1 measly chip, but I'm positive it happened. Maybe an admin could confirm if I find my blockchain link? There should be a record of how many chips were credited. I didn't want to kick up a fuss over so little. edit: these are my only deposits, and now I can't check what's right and what's wrong. https://blockchain.info/address/1HNzQBFiV6FmhzQw3H7xuqNvrFX1gqrcJN |
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