[ANN] [ASIC-RESISTANT] UltraCoin (UTC) - Ultrafast 6 second transactions!!

[bret]

Miners dumping coins on exchanges was never your problem.  That's the only thing this full PoS solution really solves.  

I don't know what "experts" in the crypto field you spoke to, but you only heard what you wanted to or were fed bad advice.  PoS with a 7 day minimum coin age is a disaster waiting to happen as far as the blockchain is concerned.  It will be fine... initially.  There are plenty of people with a whole lot of coins not doing anything with them.

 But at 30 second blocks (I'll review the code to see if your PoS implementation is on the same schedule as PoW), you're going to have 20,160 blocks in each PoS minimum age cycle.  I highly doubt you wrote new code that restricts the total number of coins that can be staked in each block, hence you'd need 20,160 separate instances of stakeable coins every week to keep the transactions times constant.  

If we make the assumption that the average wallet may have quite a few different coin ages in it at any given  time, I still wouldn't guess there would be more than 25 stakeable instances per wallet per period.  You'd need 806 wallets open 24/7 with stakeable coins to hit that number.  That's assuming none of them ever move them.

Which is the other problem with PoS.  The whole rise in price of most PoS coins was due to their limited distribution period where people bought and hoarded them because they felt like they were getting in on a limited time offer.  After the first few dumps that happened after the PoS phase started for coins, the dumps came earlier and earlier.  New PoS coins can't even sustain their pump to the end of their distribution stage anymore before being dumped as people try to get out while the getting is good.

Now you have a full PoS coin that basically does not allow people to get in on the limited distribution stage.  How are you going to market that?  

"Hey, we're full PoS!  The only way you can get it is to buy some from us!"
"Why do I want to buy it?"
"Because you need to get it while the price is still low!"
"Why?"
"Because our multipool is going to be buying it all up!"
"What are they doing with the UTC they buy?"
"...selling it to you, dear investor!"
"Why do I want it again?"
"So you can hold and sell it to other investors."
"This sounds like a pyramid scheme."

The point is that you still haven't created demand and now you've killed the only identity this coin has marketed for the past 5 months.  It's no longer a mineable asic-resistant coin, and there is a good chance transactions speeds are about to suffer.  You can't arb with it, you can't use it anywhere that other coins can't be used, and now you've shunned everyone that hadn't already been a part of the community.  The only way out is to cannibalize those within the community now as you buy and sell to one another.  

The statement's been put out there and I wouldn't take it back at this point, because looking flaky is only going to shake confidence even further.  But I really would have strongly advised against hopping on a bandwagon that has already passed.  

An argument supported by math and logic. Let's see how many people rip this apart with "NUH-UH YOU TROLL" and other emotionally fueled arguments with no substance.

[nuocmamt]

Darkcoin had first mover advantage doing POS. They're allowed to make mistakes and won't suffer harshly for it. If UTC goes the same direction, it will essentially have to fight an uphill battle towards attempting at perfection and will be punished horrible for every little mistake it makes. If the community and people that are part of UTC wanted this coin to flop and die, they would've left it long ago. All I can add to what the management should be doing is to not follow the trend of full pos and their subsequent failures, but keep at their original premise of being an asic resistant crypto currency. I have heard recently that Vertcoin isn't even asic resistent anymore so theres that... I'm sure given time, people will start migrating and rediscovering UTC's value. If dev team wanted, they can decrease the block reward further to restrict the amount of coins generated a day they can simply reduce the block reward. As stated over and over again, 43,200 UTC is generated a day. which is around .8-1.1 bitcoins that can and will be dumped a day. By reducing the block reward to 5, they can reduce that number to .28-.37 btc that can be potentially dumped a day. It is reasonable to maintain this value with the given market. UTC will eventually rise as a result of this action. What was .28-.37 will attempt to return to the norm of .8-1.1 BTC. I agree with the previous posts. I can't ask where the devs had received their advice, but it is extremely ill advised to go full POS when that type of model hasn't even been around for a long enough period to be truly understood and scrutinized.

[jacobshm]

Miners dumping coins on exchanges was never your problem.  That's the only thing this full PoS solution really solves.  

I don't know what "experts" in the crypto field you spoke to, but you only heard what you wanted to or were fed bad advice.  PoS with a 7 day minimum coin age is a disaster waiting to happen as far as the blockchain is concerned.  It will be fine... initially.  There are plenty of people with a whole lot of coins not doing anything with them.

 But at 30 second blocks (I'll review the code to see if your PoS implementation is on the same schedule as PoW), you're going to have 20,160 blocks in each PoS minimum age cycle.  I highly doubt you wrote new code that restricts the total number of coins that can be staked in each block, hence you'd need 20,160 separate instances of stakeable coins every week to keep the transactions times constant.  

If we make the assumption that the average wallet may have quite a few different coin ages in it at any given  time, I still wouldn't guess there would be more than 25 stakeable instances per wallet per period.  You'd need 806 wallets open 24/7 with stakeable coins to hit that number.  That's assuming none of them ever move them.

Which is the other problem with PoS.  The whole rise in price of most PoS coins was due to their limited distribution period where people bought and hoarded them because they felt like they were getting in on a limited time offer.  After the first few dumps that happened after the PoS phase started for coins, the dumps came earlier and earlier.  New PoS coins can't even sustain their pump to the end of their distribution stage anymore before being dumped as people try to get out while the getting is good.

Now you have a full PoS coin that basically does not allow people to get in on the limited distribution stage.  How are you going to market that?  

"Hey, we're full PoS!  The only way you can get it is to buy some from us!"
"Why do I want to buy it?"
"Because you need to get it while the price is still low!"
"Why?"
"Because our multipool is going to be buying it all up!"
"What are they doing with the UTC they buy?"
"...selling it to you, dear investor!"
"Why do I want it again?"
"So you can hold and sell it to other investors."
"This sounds like a pyramid scheme."

The point is that you still haven't created demand and now you've killed the only identity this coin has marketed for the past 5 months.  It's no longer a mineable asic-resistant coin, and there is a good chance transactions speeds are about to suffer.  You can't arb with it, you can't use it anywhere that other coins can't be used, and now you've shunned everyone that hadn't already been a part of the community.  The only way out is to cannibalize those within the community now as you buy and sell to one another.  

The statement's been put out there and I wouldn't take it back at this point, because looking flaky is only going to shake confidence even further.  But I really would have strongly advised against hopping on a bandwagon that has already passed.  

+1

[musicmaker613]

I've said this in the past and I'll say it again.  What this coin needs is the one thing it's never really had:  CONSISTENCY.

We had a bumpy launch, we had serious issues with our first exchanges, learning to configure hardware for the various N-values became a nightmare, we changed block reward, Devs left, new Devs showed up...  We changed POS from 1 year to 1 week, and before we even reached the block where we switch over we announce we're going to full POS?!  I mean, seriously, the LAST change hasn't even gone into effect yet!

Even aside from the consistency issues, I'm also very troubled by the "manipulation" as some have labeled it.  And I have to agree.  You can rationalize it any way you want by using words like "unsustainable" but the bottom line is, you're intentionally changing (manipulating) the supply of coins available to the market in order to increase the price.  I feel like we're all buying into a common misconception: Limiting supply is the same as increasing demand.  THIS IS NOT TRUE.  They are two completely different things with unique causes and effects.  The price may go up in the short term as a result of limiting supply, but without the "organic" growth that comes from liquidity and ACTUAL demand, the price will only sink further in the long term.

This community is doing a lot of things, and some of it includes trying to increase that demand rather than just limit supply.  But judging by this forum, our discussions, and the headlines we're broadcasting to the crytpo-world, this community is more concerned with limiting supply than increasing demand.  And this is a BIG turnoff and red flag for investors.

[primouno]

I agree with above posts. Going full POS isn't the solution to our problems or it is a step taken too fast. We need to take things slow, step by step. The first thing is to increase demand not to decrease coin supply artificially. Demand should be increased by future projects such as game plugins and acceptance by shops, which we already done.

[allyouracid]

Miners dumping coins on exchanges was never your problem.  That's the only thing this full PoS solution really solves.  

I don't know what "experts" in the crypto field you spoke to, but you only heard what you wanted to or were fed bad advice.  PoS with a 7 day minimum coin age is a disaster waiting to happen as far as the blockchain is concerned.  It will be fine... initially.  There are plenty of people with a whole lot of coins not doing anything with them.

 But at 30 second blocks (I'll review the code to see if your PoS implementation is on the same schedule as PoW), you're going to have 20,160 blocks in each PoS minimum age cycle.  I highly doubt you wrote new code that restricts the total number of coins that can be staked in each block, hence you'd need 20,160 separate instances of stakeable coins every week to keep the transactions times constant.  

If we make the assumption that the average wallet may have quite a few different coin ages in it at any given  time, I still wouldn't guess there would be more than 25 stakeable instances per wallet per period.  You'd need 806 wallets open 24/7 with stakeable coins to hit that number.  That's assuming none of them ever move them.

Which is the other problem with PoS.  The whole rise in price of most PoS coins was due to their limited distribution period where people bought and hoarded them because they felt like they were getting in on a limited time offer.  After the first few dumps that happened after the PoS phase started for coins, the dumps came earlier and earlier.  New PoS coins can't even sustain their pump to the end of their distribution stage anymore before being dumped as people try to get out while the getting is good.

Now you have a full PoS coin that basically does not allow people to get in on the limited distribution stage.  How are you going to market that?  

"Hey, we're full PoS!  The only way you can get it is to buy some from us!"
"Why do I want to buy it?"
"Because you need to get it while the price is still low!"
"Why?"
"Because our multipool is going to be buying it all up!"
"What are they doing with the UTC they buy?"
"...selling it to you, dear investor!"
"Why do I want it again?"
"So you can hold and sell it to other investors."
"This sounds like a pyramid scheme."

The point is that you still haven't created demand and now you've killed the only identity this coin has marketed for the past 5 months.  It's no longer a mineable asic-resistant coin, and there is a good chance transactions speeds are about to suffer.  You can't arb with it, you can't use it anywhere that other coins can't be used, and now you've shunned everyone that hadn't already been a part of the community.  The only way out is to cannibalize those within the community now as you buy and sell to one another.  

The statement's been put out there and I wouldn't take it back at this point, because looking flaky is only going to shake confidence even further.  But I really would have strongly advised against hopping on a bandwagon that has already passed.  

Thank you so much! That's a good explanation which is understandable and substantiates the risks with facts. Thank you! Finally!

[bumface]

My post was directed to king_pin, as this was nothing but FUD and accusations without any arguments to manifest what he said.

Red flag 1:  Changing the block reward (though I agreed mostly with difficulty changes for longevity reasoning)

Red flag 2:  Hearing about secret emails involving 13(?) IPO members (how much truth there were in them, I don't know) so that is invalid, merely hearsay and conjecture, but that made me stop and think.  I don't want to post what I heard here, but I'm sure the IPO holders may have an idea what I'm on about (6 months?)

secret mails?

Red flag 3: Never are the team open to answering questions unless it's nonsensical or trivial or posting posts exactly as you have there!

Red flag 4: Bumface, sold his IPO and bought asics!" (I understand your reasoning, I don't agree with it and that's my prerogative and made me think you were looking for ways out, which you have)  IPO should never have been touched, mistake but now in the past!

this has been explained 10 times

Red flag 5: Devs jumping ship, 3 of them was it?

Red flag 6:  The "Big boys" want to implement POS, that only suits the owners as they're the biggest holders.......

Paul and fabie are not the biggest holders, not even close

Red flag 7: Bumfaces trollbox mate steps up and "takes over" (sorry guys, but I have a hard time believing anything has changed, prove me wrong) If it had been some random guys dog even, I would have found that easier to swallow for some reason.

What are you talking about man? i have never ever seen paul or fabietech in the trollbox

[lenhi426]

If this is anyones IP from this forum, please stop trying to inject invalid shares. I have custom stratum servers that are not prone to this at all..

(Thread 7) Malformed message from (unauthorized) [206.180.244.60]: POST / HTTP/1.1
(Thread 7) Malformed message from (unauthorized) [206.180.244.60]: Host: stratum.cryptotrain.net:3333
(Thread 7) Malformed message from (unauthorized) [206.180.244.60]: Accept-Encoding: identity
(Thread 7) Malformed message from (unauthorized) [206.180.244.60]: Content-Length: 49
(Thread 7) Malformed message from (unauthorized) [206.180.244.60]: X-Mining-Extensions: hostlist midstate rollntime
(Thread 7) Malformed message from (unauthorized) [206.180.244.60]: Authorization: Basic VVJhYWFWanVrS3E0QmhjRzNydDVneVdkQ1FrU0F4aUtxbzo=
(Thread 7) Malformed message from (unauthorized) [206.180.244.60]: User-Agent: poclbm/12.10

hi! July 5, 2014
They all received Ultracoin own but I do not get. Please help me check
UTkzuVZYJd6rs9cbccXrBKGustaVTukXVk

[flobdeth]

I don't know what "experts" in the crypto field you spoke to, but you only heard what you wanted to or were fed bad advice.  PoS with a 7 day minimum coin age is a disaster waiting to happen

The only thing able to save ANY coin now is the ability to SPEND it!

"Hey, we're full PoS!  The only way you can get it is to buy some from us!"
"Why do I want to buy it?"
"Because you need to get it while the price is still low!"
"Why?"
"Because our multipool is going to be buying it all up!"
"What are they doing with the UTC they buy?"
"...selling it to you, dear investor!"
"Why do I want it again?"
"So you can hold and sell it to other investors."
"This sounds like a pyramid scheme."

Thankyou, that's (almost, but with much less swearing, I'm Scots, I can't help it ffs  ) the conversation I imagined.  But that is exactly the problem.

There is NO reason to buy UTC but none of you get it.  Same as pretty much ALL the alts, so stop crying about UTC.  Until there is wide merchant acceptance with someway for those merchants to be guaranteed their $ return on those coins, you can call me all the names under the sun, you can all put me on ignore, but the fact is, all you are doing is burying your heads in the sand.  Guaranteed fail unless you grow some balls and take some man up pills and get out there and give merchants GOOD reason to use your product!

There aint no magic pot of gold at the end of the rainbow nor are there any Unicorns........

This isn't primary school girls, this is real life, it's hard, deal with it

@Bumface, if I can recall the names straight off the top of my head now from the Trollbox.  I suggest you refrain from calling me a liar...........  http://trollboxarchive.com/search/all/fabietech?
http://trollboxarchive.com/search/all/Paulgr?

[bumface]

i never called you a liar, i simply said, i have never seen them in there, i know them from this thread.

and paulgr is a completely different person then paul1r

[Levole11]

i never called you a liar, i simply said, i have never seen them in there, i know them from this thread.

and paulgr is a completely different person then paul1r

Thanks for clearing up that they arent the same.. I was assuming they were too...

[bumface]

i never called you a liar, i simply said, i have never seen them in there, i know them from this thread.

and paulgr is a completely different person then paul1r

Thanks for clearing up that they arent the same.. I was assuming they were too...

paulgr is Australian, paul1r is Dutch

[allyouracid]

almost, but with much less swearing, I'm Scots, I can't help it ffs 

Lol, good one

Also, I'm not that sure that no one gets it. Good arguments are being made and THAT is exactly how to convince people. And I think that (as already stated multiple times) the devs do consider everything being said here. So, probably the decision is not final yet and if people care about UTC and have important things to say to prevent it from dying, that's actually a good thing. That's at least the way I see it.

[bumface]

almost, but with much less swearing, I'm Scots, I can't help it ffs 

Lol, good one

Also, I'm not that sure that no one gets it. Good arguments are being made and THAT is exactly how to convince people. And I think that (as already stated multiple times) the devs do consider everything being said here. So, probably the decision is not final yet and if people care about UTC and have important things to say to prevent it from dying, that's actually a good thing. That's at least the way I see it.

thats very true.

we are now investigating everything.We will not just ram a thing down your throat.

[Levole11]

almost, but with much less swearing, I'm Scots, I can't help it ffs  

Lol, good one

Also, I'm not that sure that no one gets it. Good arguments are being made and THAT is exactly how to convince people. And I think that (as already stated multiple times) the devs do consider everything being said here. So, probably the decision is not final yet and if people care about UTC and have important things to say to prevent it from dying, that's actually a good thing. That's at least the way I see it.

When said to make people think instead of causing fud

[allyouracid]

almost, but with much less swearing, I'm Scots, I can't help it ffs  

Lol, good one

Also, I'm not that sure that no one gets it. Good arguments are being made and THAT is exactly how to convince people. And I think that (as already stated multiple times) the devs do consider everything being said here. So, probably the decision is not final yet and if people care about UTC and have important things to say to prevent it from dying, that's actually a good thing. That's at least the way I see it.

When said to make people think instead of causing fud

Of course. The tone makes the music, as always. But even though the tone can become a bit harsh from time to time, it's important that everything cools down in the end. And I do see this happen right now.

[king_pin]

I agree with above posts. Going full POS isn't the solution to our problems or it is a step taken too fast. We need to take things slow, step by step. The first thing is to increase demand not to decrease coin supply artificially. Demand should be increased by future projects such as game plugins and acceptance by shops, which we already done.

+1
I totally agree, only reason for POS is that dev. team wants money fast, with little effort.
If they put more effort in development of solutions, services, etc. follow a path for the coin price will slowly go up.
And if UTC remains Scrypt-N hashrate will go up too for reason we already discussed, and cause of the price increase.

+someone sad CONSISTENCY - this is a word the dev. team should really consider!!!

[bumface]

I agree with above posts. Going full POS isn't the solution to our problems or it is a step taken too fast. We need to take things slow, step by step. The first thing is to increase demand not to decrease coin supply artificially. Demand should be increased by future projects such as game plugins and acceptance by shops, which we already done.

+1
I totally agree, only reason for POS is that dev. team wants money fast, with little effort.
If they put more effort in development of solutions, services, etc. follow a path for the coin price will slowly go up.
And if UTC remain Scrypt-N hashrate will go up too for reason we already discussed, and cause of the price increase.

+someone sad CONSISTENCY - this is a word the dev. team should really consider!!!

stop lying!

how dare you acuse them of wanting to make fast money, while nobody has invested more money and time into this coin then them

"Fabietech and I have since day one started with mining UTC with more than 140x R9 290’s.
At this moment we have more than 430MH/s on the Multipool.
So our rigs are about roughly +50% off the X11 hashing power at the multipool"

Paul was the primairy donor for getting UTC onto cryptsy and mintpal

what have YOU done for UTC? you are not a known community member and come here to make acusations about our greatest assets.

you are way out of line my friend.....you come here with pure speculation and present it as fact, and its dispicable

[king_pin]

This is the only logic for someone to go POS:

"I have a lot of coins, how can I make a profit out of them... ... GO POS!!!"

I honestly can't find any other reason why they want to go full post, so suddenly.

Further more I am giving a big % of my hash power to UTC. Currently I am 25% of the total hashing power of UTC.
So yes I am interested in keeping UTC alive and keeping it Scrypt-N.

Please give me a reasonable explanation what will the benefits of going full POS be???
Give me an example of a coin that went full POS, and really made it (without money injections)?


I am for going POW/POS with a reasonable POS interest, I wil support that 100%. This will make UTC unique, and probably the most complicated and ASIC resistant coin.


P.S. @bumface 140x 290's should make +600MH/s if you want I can help you with your settings

[RichardMiner]

Bumface,just ignor this lying bastard, this Kingpin !!
He is not even a real man enough to answer real questions, he can only lying, tell wrong accusations and trolling !



@King_pin
before you say anything serious or want to start an voting maybe it is better you come up with good arguments and proof about your dangerous accusation's, lies and fud spreading you did today before.

So please where is your proof ?;

POS/POW together is a good idea, bot going 100% POS will be the end of UTC!!!
Obviously I have been mining longer then they have been developing!
Going full POS offers nothing new, it offers death.
.......
The dev team is not making enough money, and that is why they want to go POS.
They obviously have lots of UTC and no hashing power, that is why they want to go full POS.
They have been stealing shares from their new dev. pool since day one, now this.... OMFG