[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[qwizzie]

New feature on AltcoinsTalks forum - you can teleport your rank from bitcointalk
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5290710.0

I just stumbled upon it. Does anyone feel tempted to make the switch, knowing they can keep their rank ?

Altcoinstalk Dash Forum
https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=5.0

Personally i think me and my rank are too old for switching or for teleportation  
Something for you toknormal ? A whole Dash forum to imprint your market beliefs on, the possibilities for conversion are endless. Talking about untapped potential....

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[lukikato]

dash and ltc prices are currently equivalent to only a few cents different,
Will the dash price be so high?
or ltc will be shot high, yo we'll see the beginning of 2021

[AzzAz]

DASH is in the 10 of minable coins and in fact is more realistically in the top 5 of minable coins.

DASH is half POS and half POW ( to be precise: 55% POS - 45% POW ) coin, so if we talk marketcap, it is far from top 5.  But that is not the problem, problem is that it is sliding down...
For MN owners that got in long ago it is not so big problem, but user base can not sustain on MN owners only. So DASH is becoming MN owners group's coin. Furthermore, miners are weird group, who they are really?

[JollyGood]

Dash is certainly not a scam but there are some users posting in this thread claiming that was a scam when it started out and some claim to some degree it has scam-attributes because of the voting power masternode operators have with regards to the direction Dash will go down because of them playing a role in the key decision making process. Dash is no scam.

Actually,i am not a Dash fan. But i find it somehow inaccurate to judge the value of a coin only by its price in the market. If you invested in Dash few years ago then you should now become a millionaire after the 2017 crypto boom when the price of Dash surpassed 1$. The opposite would apply if you bought Dash at that ATH price.

I don't think that Dash is a scam or a plan to scam anybody even i have other critics over it.

[qwizzie]

I would not go so far as to say Dash governance model to some degree has scam attributes, due to masternode operators playing a role in the key decision making process.
I misunderstood you there, i think you were just stating what was used against Dash in the past, my mistake.

In some crypto projects the power lays with miners (Bitcoin Cash for example, just look at the latest hard fork where miners have a lot of power and directly influence the direction of that project).
With Dash the power indeed lays more in the hands of masternode operators, who vote on budget proposals and vote on decision proposals that can directly influence the direction of the Dash project.

In other crypto projects like Proof of Stake projects, the power is in the hands of those holding the coins (the more coins they hold, the more power they have), with DeFi projects the power seems to be concentrated at developer level, giving developers often centralized power over DeFi smart contracts, through their God-mode Admin keys. And i am sure there are also crypto projects where the power is concentrated in yet another way.

There are so many different proof of ..... type of projects these days. So many different ways power is concentrated in a project.

Dash is certainly not a scam but there are some users posting in this thread claiming that was a scam when it started out and to some degree it has scam-attributes because of the voting power masternode operators have with regards to the direction Dash will go down because of them playing a role in the key decision making process. Dash is no scam.

Actually,i am not a Dash fan. But i find it somehow inaccurate to judge the value of a coin only by its price in the market. If you invested in Dash few years ago then you should now become a millionaire after the 2017 crypto boom when the price of Dash surpassed 1$. The opposite would apply if you bought Dash at that ATH price.

I don't think that Dash is a scam or a plan to scam anybody even i have other critics over it.

[JollyGood]

Sorry for the confusion, I modified my post to provide clarity.

I would not go so far as to say Dash governance model to some degree has scam attributes, due to masternode operators playing a role in the key decision making process.
I misunderstood you there, i think you were just stating what was used against Dash in the past, my mistake.

In some crypto projects the power lays with miners (Bitcoin Cash for example, just look at the latest hard fork where miners have a lot of power and directly influence the direction of that project).
With Dash the power indeed lays more in the hands of masternode operators, who vote on budget proposals and vote on decision proposals that can directly influence the direction of the Dash project.

In other crypto projects like Proof of Stake projects, the power is in the hands of those holding the coins (the more coins they hold, the more power they have), with DeFi projects the power seems to be concentrated at developer level, giving developers often centralized power over DeFi smart contracts, through their God-mode Admin keys. And i am sure there are also crypto projects where the power is concentrated in yet another way.

There are so many different proof of ..... type of projects these days. So many different ways power is concentrated in a project.

[qwizzie]

Thank you, much more clear.

Sorry for the confusion, I modified my post to provide clarity.

I would not go so far as to say Dash governance model to some degree has scam attributes, due to masternode operators playing a role in the key decision making process.
I misunderstood you there, i think you were just stating what was used against Dash in the past, my mistake.

In some crypto projects the power lays with miners (Bitcoin Cash for example, just look at the latest hard fork where miners have a lot of power and directly influence the direction of that project).
With Dash the power indeed lays more in the hands of masternode operators, who vote on budget proposals and vote on decision proposals that can directly influence the direction of the Dash project.

In other crypto projects like Proof of Stake projects, the power is in the hands of those holding the coins (the more coins they hold, the more power they have), with DeFi projects the power seems to be concentrated at developer level, giving developers often centralized power over DeFi smart contracts, through their God-mode Admin keys. And i am sure there are also crypto projects where the power is concentrated in yet another way.

There are so many different proof of ..... type of projects these days. So many different ways power is concentrated in a project.

[afbitcoins]

With regards to toknormal being a masternode owner and yet being negative about the way the reward allocation is split. This is not twisted at all. It is a natural reaction to the economics it all. As he has explained many times in many different ways.

There was some comparison with litecoin in a previous post. So I'm going to go ahead and compare.

Does litecoin have instantsend transactions? No
Does litecoin have private mixing builtin? No
Does litecoin have protection of chainlocks against 51% mining attack? No
Does litecoin have a treasury to fund development work and marketing and give grants to 3rd parties who may benefit its network? No
Does litecoin have much in the way of active development? No (as far as I know)
Does litecoin have a platform for dapps? No
Does litecoin have an investment foundation so that the network can actually own gold and other assets? No
Is litecoin an innovator in the crypto space? No

Dash has all this. Dash should be killing it. But wait theres a little bit more.
Are both coins proof of work? Is Dash?

Does litecoin split rewards so miners get less than half the supply of new coins and more than that is airdropped to set of wealthy owners?

There lies the difference. As far as my judgement goes dash overpays its service layer. The service layer is great. But just not worth almost 50% of the entire supply to pay for it. Most masternode owners are in utter denial of this. At this time Dash is leading the way in showing that masternode coins are not a winner. As far as I know there isnt yet a masternode coin which restrains the masternode reward. All succumb to the temptation of rewarding too much free coins to the masternodes.

Toknormal is bullish dash, despite his belief that the direction is wrong with regards to rewarding the miners, he is staying with it, still invested. This is someone who likes dash and still believes in it. But wishes to influence the thinking behind the reward split. What would his vote have achieved if he had voted anyway? Perhaps influencing the community carries more weight than that vote would have done.

All those first points that Dash has in its favour they are great. Dash could be great.

[xkcdd]

Does litecoin have instantsend transactions? No
Does litecoin have private mixing builtin? No
Does litecoin have protection of chainlocks against 51% mining attack? No
Does litecoin have a treasury to fund development work and marketing and give grants to 3rd parties who may benefit its network? No
Does litecoin have much in the way of active development? No (as far as I know)
Does litecoin have a platform for dapps? No
Does litecoin have an investment foundation so that the network can actually own gold and other assets? No
Is litecoin an innovator in the crypto space? No

Dash has all this. Dash should be killing it. But wait theres a little bit more.
Are both coins proof of work? Is Dash?

Does litecoin split rewards so miners get less than half the supply of new coins and more than that is airdropped to set of wealthy owners?

This is a false dichotomy.  You wilfully neglect the important differences and mark down only the inconsequential differences.

Does litecoin have its own investment in Silbert's DCG?  Yes.  https://twitter.com/Grayscale/status/1329903523702648832
Is the inflation rate (S2F) in LTC lower than DASH?  Yes.   https://www.litecoinblockhalf.com/
Does Litecoin have better brand recognition in the sector than DASH.  Yes.
Does litecoin have derivatives, eg on BitMex etc.  Yes.


These four key differences ensure that Litecoin gets investment capital while DASH is left out in the cold.  I would say the primary one is being part of DCG's investment.  I note also that ETC, a coin that is 51% attacked frequently and offers zero value otherwise is also part of the trust and performs well in the market.  Do not underestimate the power of DCG's blessing has, they own over 2% of all the Bitcoin supply in the GBTC trust.  DASH should be so lucky.  Our flows of institutional money are severely restricted by not being part of the 'in' crowd.

[Alexey45]

Market players pump TOP-10 and such shit as DASH, which is below the top 30, is not interesting to either players or investors.
You were poked around when you were kicked out of the top ten. Then they yelled at you when you flew below twenty.
Now you are not interesting and just pathetic are worthless.
No one is interested in your technologies and achievements, the market shows and proves this to you.
Deal with inadequate project leaders who have lost all power and glory, no one wants to.
All brokers turned away from you, you disappointed and robbed investors. DASHSCAMCOIN
Even if they pump a little, people will immediately dump all assets and run away from you like from lepers, damn idiots.

[qwizzie]

With regards to toknormal being a masternode owner and yet being negative about the way the reward allocation is split. This is not twisted at all. It is a natural reaction to the economics it all. As he has explained many times in many different ways.

That is actually not what i posted, lets take a look again at what i posted :

he is indeed a masternode owner (he admitted that publicly before in here), which makes his crusade against masternodes and its owners all the more weird to observe.
Every time he was attacking them, he was basically attacking himself. It would have been funny, if it was not so very twisted.

Below are some quotes of toknormal, which underscore his hostility against masternodes and masternode operators  :

They are eating the capital value of the chain like a starving animal that starts to consume its own flesh to survive.

I realise that masternode holders want holiday cruises, but f*k'm

Stock buyback economics. Let the masternodes "suck" the Dash off the market.

Lets get Dash back to an inspiring ideal rather than "how much free money can I get from my masternode", meanwhile the market is at liberty to simply trash that "free money" back to the dark ages in Satoshi or $USD value as it sees fit.

Toknormal is bullish dash, despite his belief that the direction is wrong with regards to rewarding the miners, he is staying with it, still invested. This is someone who likes dash and still believes in it.
But wishes to influence the thinking behind the reward split.

Unfortunately that does not really show from his postings. Below are some quotes of toknormal which underscore his bearish sentiment and not really indicate to me a willingness to stay with Dash, or still believes in it.
It does indicate to me a willingness to just wait for the next pump, before dumping Dash altogether :

It isn't a "bear cycle" it's a death spiral

What I find discomforting about this whole philosophy is that you all seem to be looking for an exit pump. Desperate to get out and not interested in the long term health and growth of the coin.

They all want out on the next pump. No worries. I'll be joining them

Demise as a competitive crypto asset when compared with its 100% mined contemporaries.

Only very recently toknormal changed his perspective about the blockreward allocation change, and stated he could get behind at least a part of it.

Actually there is a potential positive impact of the reward split which is that it may help to turn Dash into something of a "stablecoin". This would help with adoption in terms of use as a "spending currency".

The reward is almost evenly split between operators with variable costs (which increase with price) and operators with fixed cost (which don't). As price rises therefore an increasing tension between these two groups is set up with an asymmetric propensity for profit taking as profitability rises amongst fixed-cost holders way out of proportion to those with variable costs.

As the market acts to re-price these excessive profits (as it always does) the price will snap back till they're reconciled again, thereby serving to stabilise the valuation at a level where profit margins are at or near parity. This prevents excessive price deflation (e.g. of chicken nuggets) and mitigates hoarding which is exactly what you want with a spending currency.

Nice ! I think I've found something about Spork 21 I can get behind and promote at last.

So far i have not seen a whole lot of positive promoting of that, by toknormal. I did see some negative promoting of that lately. I guess toknormal has a different view on how to promote things in here.
 

At this time Dash is leading the way in showing that masternode coins are not a winner.

At this time Bitcoin Cash is leading the way in showing that 100% mined coins can do even worse then masternode coins like Dash.


Source : messari.io

[toknormal]

Only very recently toknormal changed his perspective about the blockreward allocation change, and stated he could get behind at least a part of it.

Actually there is a potential positive impact of the reward split which is that it may help to turn Dash into something of a "stablecoin".

LoL. I see irony isn't one of your strong points

[qwizzie]

Only very recently toknormal changed his perspective about the blockreward allocation change, and stated he could get behind at least a part of it.

Actually there is a potential positive impact of the reward split which is that it may help to turn Dash into something of a "stablecoin".

LoL. I see irony isn't one of your strong points

Not when it comes to you, i guess. I took it as an effort from you to turn a new page. To move away from the whole 'Dash is in a death spiral' thing of yours.
At least it answers the negative promote vibe i was getting from it. To be honest i kinda just glanced over it, most of your posts with decorative pictures i have a tendency to just glance over very very briefly.

[toknormal]

At least it answers the negative promote vibe i was getting from it.

The blockchain has a budget which is the block reward.

The de-facto use of that budget is to make coins as expensive to mine as they are to buy, thereby implementing a synthetic store-of-value.

If, instead of doing that, the protocol gifts those coins away then only one result can be expected long term.

It doesn't mean the coin still can't be useful, provide great service, utility, good for payments etc. It just will be a sh* store of value by comparison with one that optimises its budget and spends it in keeping scarcity high.

******* Solution ********

Dash gives half its "scarcity" budget away to masternodes when it doesn't have to. It's getting next-to-nothing back for this since the masternode network is extremely cheap to run compared with what it gets paid out of the blockchain. The software to run a node is free of charge. The node is automated. It doesn't require a salaried operator maintaining it for 8 hours a day. Even the collateral stays in the hands of the original owner and is no less accessible than an equivalent balance in a bitcoin cold wallet.

I am advocating for putting that reward to good use in a way that benefits directly the store-of-value performance of the chain. Then the network will actually get something for its money. That is BULLISH and OPTIMISTIC.

Not only that, as a masternode operator it's a self-preservation and self-interest perspective because I don't want my collateral to lose value and the capital loss on collateral blows any masternode reward to kingdom come with only small revaluations never mind the huge ones we've had over the last 3 years.

Contributors like yourself and bigrcanda should be ashamed of yourselves in my view because you're in no position to be throwing chaff in the faces of people who are attempting to genuinely analyse this problem in good faith. Despite that you continue to do so with your nonsense obfuscating arguments like "down from ATH" and "where's the evidence" while all the evidence anyone needs is staring you in the face as you know fine well.

You're simply trying to paint a pretty face on a monster, shrug your shoulders and blame our poor performance on being washed around by the tide. xkcdd's excuses are equally bad. Dash has had plenty fair shakes at institutional acceptance - we were one of the earliest on BTCe back in the days, one of only a handful traded on Bitfinex, had investment funds taking masternodes, got promoted worldwide by Keiser for months and accepted on Coinbase.

The three of you are pathetic in the arguments/excuses you offer forward IMO, and if we get anywhere it will be in spite of them, not because of them. Empty spin doctoring is just going to get us more of the same and I do not agree with your stance of sitting on hands, declaring blind allegiance to a non-performing strategy and waiting for wind to blow us into some gain.

IMO my approach is therefore bullish, not bearish since I see huge opportunity in our wasted budget and am advocating for it to be put to good use.

[qwizzie]

Thank you for not including any decorative pictures this time. I would work on your messaging if i were you toknormal, because your bullish comes across as bearish in most of your posts.
Talking about gains, maybe we get to that Dash price $100 end of this year after all :


Source : https://cryptowat.ch/charts/BINANCE:DASH-USDT?period=1d

It feels like Dash finally has the wind in its back.

[birdonthewire]

With regards to toknormal being a masternode owner and yet being negative about the way the reward allocation is split. This is not twisted at all. It is a natural reaction to the economics it all. As he has explained many times in many different ways.

There was some comparison with litecoin in a previous post. So I'm going to go ahead and compare.

Does litecoin have instantsend transactions? No
Does litecoin have private mixing builtin? No
Does litecoin have protection of chainlocks against 51% mining attack? No
Does litecoin have a treasury to fund development work and marketing and give grants to 3rd parties who may benefit its network? No
Does litecoin have much in the way of active development? No (as far as I know)
Does litecoin have a platform for dapps? No
Does litecoin have an investment foundation so that the network can actually own gold and other assets? No
Is litecoin an innovator in the crypto space? No

Dash has all this. Dash should be killing it. But wait theres a little bit more.
Are both coins proof of work? Is Dash?

Does litecoin split rewards so miners get less than half the supply of new coins and more than that is airdropped to set of wealthy owners?

There lies the difference. As far as my judgement goes dash overpays its service layer. The service layer is great. But just not worth almost 50% of the entire supply to pay for it. Most masternode owners are in utter denial of this. At this time Dash is leading the way in showing that masternode coins are not a winner. As far as I know there isnt yet a masternode coin which restrains the masternode reward. All succumb to the temptation of rewarding too much free coins to the masternodes.

Toknormal is bullish dash, despite his belief that the direction is wrong with regards to rewarding the miners, he is staying with it, still invested. This is someone who likes dash and still believes in it. But wishes to influence the thinking behind the reward split. What would his vote have achieved if he had voted anyway? Perhaps influencing the community carries more weight than that vote would have done.

All those first points that Dash has in its favour they are great. Dash could be great.

We disagree in the verb times. DASH WAS great already. It is internal governance itself that prevents this jewel of decentralization from showing its full potential. DASH is the private project of a few hundred people ... but that already exists in classic production structures without need any - cosmetic - crypto adventure (and no one thinks of putting Apple or Coca-Cola as an example of decentralization for that).The crypto industry's widespread contempt for DASH's ideological corruption and falsehood is no accident. That millions of disinterested crypto watchers are wrong and a few dozen corrupt trolls invested up to their ears are right ... ignores to the most elementary logic.

It is the spiral of progressive centralization that limits the project and the powerful and spontaneous expression of Duffield's splendid design ... and it is deliberate and from within. And in addition, an in crescendo centralization, tending to an increasing concentration. Some naive Mnodes believe that the red line is the 1000 Tokens ... but it is not so: Also that range will be attacked, unauthorized and marginalized ... and that inertia will not stop, because in a flawed structure it always benefits the strongest. The whales of DASH will not convert to Buddhism tomorrow nor will they go out in their underwear and sandals to the street to distribute candy to the poor children. The modest Mnodes in their greed believe they are solidifying their share of the pie ... but they are only digging their own grave.

Once the governance framework in the Mnodes network was defined (blocking Shared Mnodes, which could dilute power in favor of the general interest of the project with a QUALITY voting niche - they could never decide in their particular interest, but they could make it impossible / difficult , to categorical partial abuses (and at that juncture, other modest Mnodes would ally themselves) - the whales will continue to accumulate Mnodes. That they continue to set aside beneficiaries of the pie is pure inertia. The custom rules allow it and they will -.

The modest Mnodes believe that decentralization is a limitation to their ends ... when it is precisely the guarantee of their survival.

If the Titanic continue to sink - and even if it doesn't, for simple convenience, because immorality to the eyes of public opinion is a cost that the DASH DAO hijackers they assumed long ago - ... fewer and fewer lifeboats will remain... because there is not for everyone. Guess who will guarantee theirs.  

[condoras]

It feels like Dash finally has the wind in its back.

Almost all the coins have the wind on their back and DASH is no exception to this. The question is when this wind will stop (because it will stop eventually) and if will see a downfall or a "stabilization" of the price at a higher point than the previous one...

[qwizzie]

It feels like Dash finally has the wind in its back.

Almost all the coins have the wind on their back and DASH is no exception to this. The question is when this wind will stop (because it will stop eventually) and if will see a downfall or a "stabilization" of the price at a higher point than the previous one...

If this is really a new long term up trend for Dash, then this could take many months to play out.

Chart with monthly time interval :


Source : tradingview.com

Still too soon to tell i guess.

[afbitcoins]

At this time Dash is leading the way in showing that masternode coins are not a winner.

At this time Bitcoin Cash is leading the way in showing that 100% mined coins can do even worse then masternode coins like Dash.


Source : messari.io

The difference is Dash is leading the way of masternode coins.
Bitcoin cash is not leading the way of 100% mined coins. Bitcoin is.

How close is bitcoin to its all time high?

[qwizzie]

At this time Dash is leading the way in showing that masternode coins are not a winner.

At this time Bitcoin Cash is leading the way in showing that 100% mined coins can do even worse then masternode coins like Dash.


Source : messari.io

The difference is Dash is leading the way of masternode coins.
Bitcoin cash is not leading the way of 100% mined coins. Bitcoin is.

Bitcoin is not an Altcoin. Bitcoin Cash and Dash are. As are a lot of other coins.
We are talking about the performance between Altcoins.

And unless you have another Altcoin that can show us that 100% mined coins can do even worse then masternode coins like Dash,
Bitcoin Cash will do just fine as example. Bitcoin Cash is also a direct competitor to Dash, so that makes it even more interesting for comparison.

Note : due to today's price volatility, above picture is already outdated. Currently Bitcoin Cash is doing with regards to price performance a little bit better then Dash.
We will see in a few days, if that changes or not. These are volatile days for Altcoins.

Currently 1 Dash = $91.35 ($6 increase, volatile indeed)