[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[7vpo]

Do not you understand? They're playing with us. Yesterday (GMT+3), How many people has doubled his fortune last?

Only developers?

Evan is not that stupid.

Can solve these errors when they want.

Note: I have a considerable amount of DRKs. So this is not a piece of shit. I told my feelings.

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[atavacron]

So the fork failed? No wonder that the price went down. I wasn't there.

Wasn't nearly as bad as last time. Essentially all was working but to get the expected mini-forks pruned more promptly a link between votes and block hashes is needed. They're on the case right now - Evan's ETA 2 to 3 weeks, although it wouldn't surprise me if we see this put in place in a week's time.

ETA 2 - 3 weeks? That's way too long IMO.

I concur - and if we find again some issue at release since testnest looks pretty useless, we should wait again during the next 2-3 weeks and see DRK to the ground?
The rate of adoption of the new RC3 promises to be lower, ppl are tired of mandatory updates every two weeks

The fork is failed?  

Not failed. The problems were very minor, but Evan, being the responsible dev that he is, thought it best to revert back so that there is ZERO issues. Masternodes got payed, just very fluke incident where two block were solved at the exact same time, producing the same hash but with different votes.

The network "forked" ... which is not the real name for it, but lack of a better one.... until the network found consensus and rejected one of them. The netweork then readjusts itelf automatically, creating no real issues, no real side-forks.

The problem is that the consensus took longer than 1 tx time, so in pure mathematical theory, there could be a time where this could happen a few times in a row, and the network have multiple little min harmless forks going on, until the entire network finds consensus again, and "many" blocks get orphaned.

This is not dangerous at all, but it really really suck, because miners would loose that reward.
 So in essence, Evan is taking care of EVERYONE in the network, not only the Masternode payments.

The hard-fork most certainly worked, but since this coin is going to be the gold standard of privacy and anonymity, he pulled back to iron out this kink.

Doublespeak at its finest.
The fork has failed since evan made the decision to revert back and cancel the migration for the second time, because of some supposed network instability caused by a bug in the way the consensus is decided. And understating systematically a problem that caused a fall-back procedure and need 2 to 3 weeks of additional testing is not a responsible way of describing things.

Contrary to what, just let it go and cause mayhem in the mining world? There is no supposed network instability, there WAS network instability. Not a meltdown, just not perfect smooth. That is going to be addresses.

This is not a clone coin my friend. Its real innovation

So please don't explain to people it was a remarkable success and the fork did not fail if there was issues and instability, especially since you seem to believe that without this 180 turn, complete mayhem was about to happen. You are completely schizophrenic in the way you describe things.

Now you are just being silly and aggressive.

It was 100% success in proof-of-concept department. Like when you light the first light bulb and say "SUCCESS", but then and unpredicted power-surge blows it out... and no-one even knew about power-surges until that time.

Debate, dont be aggressive. Write something useful.

I am debatting, not being agressive, and I respect your opinions - but you ARE schizophrenic.
We are not writing scientific papers and debating of the white paper merits here, we need proper execution and implementation.
And the fact that two attempts backfired, and the testnet supposedly intensive testing does not seem able to iron out bugs that manifest themselves within 20 minutes after production launch does concern me.

[stilgars]

I am debatting, not being agressive, and I respect your opinions - but you ARE schizophrenic.
We are not writing scientific papers and debating of the white paper merits here, we need proper execution and implementation.
And the fact that two attempts backfired, and the testnet supposedly intensive testing does not seem able to iron out bugs that manifest themselves within 20 minutes after production launch does concern me.

 Your not being aggressive, yet calling me names. Schizophrenic means, "mind divided" in layman's terms.
 I have my mind in the right place, and have no doubts. You are the one who has doubts. If in doubt, sell your DRKs and move on.

 You're bringing zero productive talk, just liquid verborrea.

 And this is the last troll-cookie I'm throwing at 'ya.

You think you are productive by understating everything (I won't list them here, but please read again your PR statement) and then pretending two posts after that total mayhem was looming if evan did not pull out the plug from this "hard-fork that most certainly worked"?

I am done too, glad for you if you don't doubt - this is called blind faith, by the way and it is indeed a way out of my league.

[stilgars]

So the fork failed? No wonder that the price went down. I wasn't there.

Wasn't nearly as bad as last time. Essentially all was working but to get the expected mini-forks pruned more promptly a link between votes and block hashes is needed. They're on the case right now - Evan's ETA 2 to 3 weeks, although it wouldn't surprise me if we see this put in place in a week's time.

ETA 2 - 3 weeks? That's way too long IMO.

I concur - and if we find again some issue at release since testnest looks pretty useless, we should wait again during the next 2-3 weeks and see DRK to the ground?
The rate of adoption of the new RC3 promises to be lower, ppl are tired of mandatory updates every two weeks

The fork is failed?  

Not failed. The problems were very minor, but Evan, being the responsible dev that he is, thought it best to revert back so that there is ZERO issues. Masternodes got payed, just very fluke incident where two block were solved at the exact same time, producing the same hash but with different votes.

The network "forked" ... which is not the real name for it, but lack of a better one.... until the network found consensus and rejected one of them. The netweork then readjusts itelf automatically, creating no real issues, no real side-forks.

The problem is that the consensus took longer than 1 tx time, so in pure mathematical theory, there could be a time where this could happen a few times in a row, and the network have multiple little min harmless forks going on, until the entire network finds consensus again, and "many" blocks get orphaned.

This is not dangerous at all, but it really really suck, because miners would loose that reward.
 So in essence, Evan is taking care of EVERYONE in the network, not only the Masternode payments.

The hard-fork most certainly worked, but since this coin is going to be the gold standard of privacy and anonymity, he pulled back to iron out this kink.

Doublespeak at its finest.
The fork has failed since evan made the decision to revert back and cancel the migration for the second time, because of some supposed network instability caused by a bug in the way the consensus is decided. And understating systematically a problem that caused a fall-back procedure and need 2 to 3 weeks of additional testing is not a responsible way of describing things.

Contrary to what, just let it go and cause mayhem in the mining world? There is no supposed network instability, there WAS network instability. Not a meltdown, just not perfect smooth. That is going to be addresses.

This is not a clone coin my friend. Its real innovation

So please don't explain to people it was a remarkable success and the fork did not fail if there was issues and instability, especially since you seem to believe that without this 180 turn, complete mayhem was about to happen. You are completely schizophrenic in the way you describe things.

Now you are just being silly and aggressive.

It was 100% success in proof-of-concept department. Like when you light the first light bulb and say "SUCCESS", but then and unpredicted power-surge blows it out... and no-one even knew about power-surges until that time.

Debate, dont be aggressive. Write something useful.

I am debatting, not being agressive, and I respect your opinions - but you ARE schizophrenic.
We are not writing scientific papers and debating of the white paper merits here, we need proper execution and implementation.
And the fact that two attempts backfired, and the testnet supposedly intensive testing does not seem able to iron out bugs that manifest themselves within 20 minutes after production launch does concern me.

there is limits to what you can test in testnet, since you do not have access to the large amount of hashing power, and number of clients in a test net scenario. it might have taken months, if not years to see a collision in testnet, while with the hashing power and number of masternodes in main net it only took minutes..

Ok thank you for answering, best luck in hardening the code for the next couple of days.

[toknormal]

The only people "disappointed" are those who do not realize the size of the task, thinking it's something minor. Newsflash: It's isn't. Calibrate your expectations accordingly.

Superb remark.

I've worked as a business systems developer for 25 years. I see these things a whole lot differently from 'consumer investors'. The way yesterday's issues were dealt with instills great confidence in me that the developers have their priorities right. I don't want them to pander to the market, I want them to get the solution right.

The market will reward the efforts soon enough if that happens. In fact, people generally feel safer with a project that has gone through "growing pains" and has them behind it rather than one which has them all to come.

What they need to do is keep going, keep taking one step at a time and get it bedded down solidly before moving on. That seems to be exactly whats happening, so I'm happy. The price will flap about in the wind for a while in the meantime but it will be worth it in the long run.

Evan will probably come to be seen as the safest and most experienced pair of hands in the business as far as hard forks go in the long run and we shouldn't get rattled at this point.

[AlexGR]

Do not you understand? They're playing with us. Yesterday (GMT+3), How many people has doubled his fortune last?

Only the most fantastic traders.

Only developers?

Evan is not that stupid.

Can solve these errors when they want.

Note: I have a considerable amount of DRKs. So this is not a piece of shit. I told my feelings.

What Evan is trying to do with masternode payments is NOT simple and the complexity ensures problems. A large number of problems have been showing up on testnet for over a month and it's reasonable to expect there will be more problems on the actual network.

It's not like Evan doesn't want to get it sorted and take the coin to 0.03+.

[stilgars]

The primary buyers / whales of DRK and the largest holders have a different worldview of things compared to the "oh I have 20 DRKs and I call myself an investor" attention-deficit-disorder people.

They have more realistic expectations and are not behaving like ...well.... "stupid people". For the most part, at least those who understand cryptocurrencies, understand that a development plan needs time, effort and even trial & error to get it right. The patience level varies between them as there is no uniformity of what they are willing to accept in terms of delays, but most are quite mature in their approach. Besides, even with the delay, the bump from 10% to 20% ensures that they'll get more than they bargained for.

If you have a testnet and dont get it right the second time, there is no excuse. There were lots of people working hard preparing and deploying masternodes. Its just disappointing. I thougt the Nxt AE would be a tricky one to implement, but they did there homework and it runs smooth. This is getting a million dollar grave.

I don't think anybody is looking for excuses here. Masternode payments are a serious hack to the bitcoin protocol because they add further layers of consensus to the network. We could fork another 2 times and still not get it right - until we actually do. The only people "disappointed" are those who do not realize the size of the task, thinking it's something minor. Newsflash: It's isn't. Calibrate your expectations accordingly.

Prior to the May 25th fork I wrote:

For the bet: I'm not a betting guy anymore.

LOL. If you really believed what you were saying, you would have immediately his DRK under 6$ within 3 weeks' bet.

Darkcoin is not Bitcoin. It's in active development. Its code is changing every day and there have been two hard forks in like 10 days. Something can go wrong with a bug, people can flash-crash it in an instant and a candle might appear at 6$. Why bet* on something like that? The masternode hack in particular can be tricky for it requires changes in stratum + p2pools. It got delayed 2 weeks and it'll still have bugs I believe, that might require extra hard fork.

Prior to yesterday's fork I wrote:

Anyone knows what Evan has been up to lately? If not, my guess is that he is preparing a sick announcement for RC4 tomorrow after hard fork.

Given the path that we followed from alpha-beta etc, usually stuff related to DarkSend were first tested on testnet to check them out for problems... I doubt RC4 will go online straight away as without testing it might break existing functionality. It's a 50mn coin right now, you can't just put large updates without test. But even when it was 1-2mn coin, we still went the testnet route first. So probably we'll first see a call for testing RC4 features, when some of these are ready, and then => RC4 announcement.

As for price, I recommend keeping some cash in reserve to chew panic sellers if something goes wrong. No matter how well tested it is, masternode payments are a big hack to the protocol and they may still present problems. This is not FUD, it's just the way it is regarding such fundamental changes. Let's say the right attitude this time round is "cautiously optimistic".

Am I prophet for writing the above? I just understand what the task is and what to realistically expect.

Anyone thinking that success is 100% guaranteed, is deluded. Even Bitcoin can crash in an instant due to some bug or even fork - without even applying dramatic/fundamental changes. You try your best and hope for the best. If it isn't enough, you try again and again until you succeed. There is no other way. All others are shitting on DRK and then they'll use the same masternode protocol for their own payments, when it's ready. Even Bitcoin might apply something similar to give incentives to node operators as that aspect is not very future-proof.

Alex, I understand you well, but ppl have also calibrated their expectations based on what they have read on the forums. If we rewind back just a couple of hours, we would see things like 99.99999% certainty and bullet-proof testing. I don't say the developers said so, but still, it was posted everywhere these last couple of days.

[crimi]

The only people "disappointed" are those who do not realize the size of the task, thinking it's something minor. Newsflash: It's isn't. Calibrate your expectations accordingly.

Superb remark.

I've worked as a business systems developer for 25 years. I see these things a whole lot differently from 'consumer investors'. The way yesterday's issues were dealt with instills great confidence in me that the developers have their priorities right. I don't want them to pander to the market, I want them to get the solution right.

The market will reward the efforts soon enough if that happens. In fact, people generally feel safer with a project that has gone through "growing pains" and has them behind it rather than one which has them all to come.

What they need to do is keep going, keep taking one step at a time and get it bedded down solidly before moving on. That seems to be exactly whats happening, so I'm happy. The price will flap about in the wind for a while in the meantime but it will be worth it in the long run.

Evan will probably come to be seen as the safest and most experienced pair of hands in the business as far as hard forks go in the long run and we shouldn't get rattled at this point.

For my opinion the testnet wasnt well organised, if you look at darkcointalk/irc. They should work now to get a real transparent sandbox where communication is possible and everyone knows at least which testnet release is current and it doenst really help here that the masternode code is not open source for auditing.

[coins101]

The primary buyers / whales of DRK and the largest holders have a different worldview of things compared to the "oh I have 20 DRKs and I call myself an investor" attention-deficit-disorder people.

They have more realistic expectations and are not behaving like ...well.... "stupid people". For the most part, at least those who understand cryptocurrencies, understand that a development plan needs time, effort and even trial & error to get it right. The patience level varies between them as there is no uniformity of what they are willing to accept in terms of delays, but most are quite mature in their approach. Besides, even with the delay, the bump from 10% to 20% ensures that they'll get more than they bargained for.

If you have a testnet and dont get it right the second time, there is no excuse. There were lots of people working hard preparing and deploying masternodes. Its just disappointing. I thougt the Nxt AE would be a tricky one to implement, but they did there homework and it runs smooth. This is getting a million dollar grave.

I don't think anybody is looking for excuses here. Masternode payments are a serious hack to the bitcoin protocol because they add further layers of consensus to the network. We could fork another 2 times and still not get it right - until we actually do. The only people "disappointed" are those who do not realize the size of the task, thinking it's something minor. Newsflash: It's isn't. Calibrate your expectations accordingly.

Prior to the May 25th fork I wrote:

For the bet: I'm not a betting guy anymore.

LOL. If you really believed what you were saying, you would have immediately his DRK under 6$ within 3 weeks' bet.

Darkcoin is not Bitcoin. It's in active development. Its code is changing every day and there have been two hard forks in like 10 days. Something can go wrong with a bug, people can flash-crash it in an instant and a candle might appear at 6$. Why bet* on something like that? The masternode hack in particular can be tricky for it requires changes in stratum + p2pools. It got delayed 2 weeks and it'll still have bugs I believe, that might require extra hard fork.

Prior to yesterday's fork I wrote:

Anyone knows what Evan has been up to lately? If not, my guess is that he is preparing a sick announcement for RC4 tomorrow after hard fork.

Given the path that we followed from alpha-beta etc, usually stuff related to DarkSend were first tested on testnet to check them out for problems... I doubt RC4 will go online straight away as without testing it might break existing functionality. It's a 50mn coin right now, you can't just put large updates without test. But even when it was 1-2mn coin, we still went the testnet route first. So probably we'll first see a call for testing RC4 features, when some of these are ready, and then => RC4 announcement.

As for price, I recommend keeping some cash in reserve to chew panic sellers if something goes wrong. No matter how well tested it is, masternode payments are a big hack to the protocol and they may still present problems. This is not FUD, it's just the way it is regarding such fundamental changes. Let's say the right attitude this time round is "cautiously optimistic".

Am I prophet for writing the above? I just understand what the task is and what to realistically expect.

Anyone thinking that success is 100% guaranteed, is deluded. Even Bitcoin can crash in an instant due to some bug or even fork - without even applying dramatic/fundamental changes. You try your best and hope for the best. If it isn't enough, you try again and again until you succeed. There is no other way. All others are shitting on DRK and then they'll use the same masternode protocol for their own payments, when it's ready. Even Bitcoin might apply something similar to give incentives to node operators as that aspect is not very future-proof.

Alex, I understand you well, but ppl have also calibrated their expectations based on what they have read on the forums. If we rewind back just a couple of hours, we would see things like 99.99999% certainty and bullet-proof testing. I don't say the developers said so, but still, it was posted everywhere these last couple of days.

That is a fair point.

I just don't get which bit of: this has never, ever, in the whole of human history on the planet earth, been done before, so expect anything, people don't get.

[coins101]

it doenst really help here that the masternode code is not open source for auditing.

The clone wars would start within 5 minutes.  Everyone smells money and the flies are already swarming.

[AlexGR]

Alex, I understand you well, but ppl have also calibrated their expectations based on what they have read on the forums. If we rewind back just a couple of hours, we would see things like 99.99999% certainty and bullet-proof testing. I don't say the developers said so, but still, it was posted everywhere these last couple of days.

I saw that too and that's why I'm injecting doses of realistic expectations every now and then.

it doenst really help here that the masternode code is not open source for auditing.

Portions not related to DarkSend are open source right now.

[centurion76]

Sounds like everyone could use a little distraction

Darkbids.com, a Darkcoin Auction and Market, is now ready for testing. How about posting an auction or two and helping test the site out. It's also a good way to promote using DRK for everyday transactions, and might even be a great way for you to get more DRK.... 

[salmion]

Sounds like everyone could use a little distraction

Darkbids.com, a Darkcoin Auction and Market, is now ready for testing. How about posting an auction or two and helping test the site out. It's also a good way to promote using DRK for everyday transactions, and might even be a great way for you to get more DRK.... 

Well done Centurion! While we wait for the next fork we may as well help get this working! Sell your stuff for dark..

[richy]

i totaly agree with the idea of making a perfect product... But on the other hand sometimes it is even more important to have a product out on the market.. even if it is not 100% perfect.... DRK is not allone in the world of anno crypto... DRK got the 4th position by being early... Do not forget this it is important to be early! I think we may not have the time to iron out everything 100%... If the next time something is not working 100% but 75%.... Don't call it fail... this is a bad word... Call it nearly perfect... The little things will be solved later... You than can also have a second fork but psychological it feels totaly different.  All the other coins are working actually only with anouncements and promises.... Dont be more perfect than the competition.... be faster on the market!

[coins101]

mentioned before, but the bitcoin fork this time last year was dealt with and bitcoin went on to all time high market price a few months later

The harder is it to get these things right, the less confidence you should have in future Darkcoin clones



http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1a51xx/now_that_its_over_the_blockchain_fork_explained/

[salmion]

Sounds like everyone could use a little distraction

Darkbids.com, a Darkcoin Auction and Market, is now ready for testing. How about posting an auction or two and helping test the site out. It's also a good way to promote using DRK for everyday transactions, and might even be a great way for you to get more DRK.... 

Need to get those test products off.. could you make them an advert? so header: Earn Dark! Image - dark coin?, Sell your unwanted items to people who do and earn drk!

Everyone if you are going to sell something on ebay why not support this?

I'm not affiliated with this project in any way just think we should support it, put a listing up or generally help out.. 

[CrymsonCoin16]

holy 73.4 btc sell at .0154012

[rickraw]

holy 73.4 btc sell at .0154012

Followed by 1100 DRK buy of it haha

[thcmakaveli]

So is everything fixed already or we are still in the development phase ?

[AlexGR]

So is everything fixed already or we are still in the development phase ?

Development.