[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[coins101]

I think it's rather short sighted to be viewing DRK as the money making venture in and of itself.  The real money will be made in cottage industries surrounding DRK, which nobody here ever seems to talk about.  I mean, if someone came up with a secure way to pool resources for a MN, for example, I'd be willing to pay that person a fair fee to use his or her services.

Regarding Masternode fees: miners are mining coins which are so sought after precisely because of the Masternode network and the functionality that it brings to Darkcoin vs. our competition.  In large part, Darkcoin is what it is precisely because of the anonymization system Evan has built, and the Masternode network is the linchpin of that system.  It's rather silly to complain about supporting the very system that makes the coin you are mining unique and valuable, is it not?

And while we're on the subject, who ever said that Masternodes are the only way you'll be able to earn a proof of service return on DRK?

I think we covered most of that. Someone suggested memes only if you want to make those points again.  

Seriously, I do think, in a rather 'out there way', that MNs could be packaged up and floated on the NASDAQ at some point.

El Presidente pointed out that MN wallets can get earned coins sent to a second address. Multi-sig would mean that MNs could be put into a contractual relationship with a third party and these two aspects could keep the MN owners anonymous therefore not compromising the decentralised nature of the network.

The only missing part is how to contractually get MN owners to assign their MNs to a corporation, while maintaining them, without having to tell the corporation who they are. Multi-sig solves one aspect of controlling the money moving out without dual consent, but the corporation might have to have some form of lease agreement.

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[eltito]

I think it's rather short sighted to be viewing DRK as the money making venture in and of itself.  The real money will be made in cottage industries surrounding DRK, which nobody here ever seems to talk about.  I mean, if someone came up with a secure way to pool resources for a MN, for example, I'd be willing to pay that person a fair fee to use his or her services.

Regarding Masternode fees: miners are mining coins which are so sought after precisely because of the Masternode network and the functionality that it brings to Darkcoin vs. our competition.  In large part, Darkcoin is what it is precisely because of the anonymization system Evan has built, and the Masternode network is the linchpin of that system.  It's rather silly to complain about supporting the very system that makes the coin you are mining unique and valuable, is it not?

And while we're on the subject, who ever said that Masternodes are the only way you'll be able to earn a proof of service return on DRK?

I think we covered most of that. Someone suggested memes only if you want to make those points again.  

Seriously, I do think, in a rather 'out there way', that MNs could be packaged up and floated on the NASDAQ at some point.

El Presidente pointed out that MN wallets can get earned coins sent to a second address. Multi-sig would mean that MNs could be put into a contractual relationship with a third party and these two aspects could keep the MN owners anonymous therefore not compromising the decentralised nature of the network.

The only missing part is how to contractually get MN owners to assign their MNs to a corporation, while maintaining them, without having to tell the corporation who they are. Multi-sig solves one aspect of controlling the money moving out without dual consent, but the corporation might have to have some form of lease agreement.

Great, I missed that, but it was just an example. What other ways can Darkcoin facilitate capitalistic ventures that do not involve dependency on Evan? Ventures which work well with Darkcoin's specific feature set versus the alternatives (both traditional and Crypto). If you want to make real money, that is what you should be thinking about. Not how Evan can create more income for you based solely on intrinsic reward systems of the coin itself.

[illodin]

Pooling together for masternodes is going to end in tears when the operators disappear with all the perfectly anonymous currency. I see the usual suspects creating large pools for masternodes.

You could create a smart contract using BlackHalo for example to prevent theft.

[coins101]

What other ways can Darkcoin facilitate capitalistic ventures that do not involve dependency on Evan?

Multi-sig, API and Bitcoin API.

We can do the rest.

Thanks.

[Brilliantrocket]

The biggest thing to overcome, in my opinion, is that no single person should have access to the node (for pooled nodes) or any of the information going through it. If this can be fixed, then decentralization is effectively guaranteed, regardless of who owns the node or what provider is hosting it.

[thelonecrouton]

I think it's rather short sighted to be viewing DRK as the money making venture in and of itself.  The real money will be made in cottage industries surrounding DRK, which nobody here ever seems to talk about.  I mean, if someone came up with a secure way to pool resources for a MN, for example, I'd be willing to pay that person a fair fee to use his or her services.

Regarding Masternode fees: miners are mining coins which are so sought after precisely because of the Masternode network and the functionality that it brings to Darkcoin vs. our competition.  In large part, Darkcoin is what it is precisely because of the anonymization system Evan has built, and the Masternode network is the linchpin of that system.  It's rather silly to complain about supporting the very system that makes the coin you are mining unique and valuable, is it not?

And while we're on the subject, who ever said that Masternodes are the only way you'll be able to earn a proof of service return on DRK?

eltito you big tease, will there be some sort of Masternode API to allow 3rd parties to build services around MN infrastructure?

I'm thinking of a lease model, MN's paid according to resources used, service access via mobile app or wallet plugin.

[FiniteByDesign]

Want your crypto represented in a line of physical proofs?

We have had inquiries from a few crypto development teams and/or supporters regarding having a line of proofs created for their crypto and are pleased to announce support of this concept going forward! The way this works is that prepayment for 30% of the inventory would be required and we will cover the remaining upfront investment of time and labor. Once the line is completed and assembled, your 30% of the inventory for which you prepaid will be shipped to you. Finite By Design, LLC will own, list and support the sale of the remaining 70% of the inventory to recoup our portion of the investment and profit.

Example (using made up "FiniteCoin"):

Members of the "FiniteCoin" community decide they want a physical representation of their crypto created and supported by Finite By Design, LLC. The "FiniteCoin" community decides on the quantity of proofs they desire (50) as well as the composition (1 troy ounce of .999 fine silver). Once this is determined, the payment for 30% of the inventory (15 proofs) or $1,500 is made and the production process begins. In about 8 weeks the new line of proofs is completed, the 15 proofs are mailed (to one centralized address for further redistribution) and Finite By Design, LLC lists, supports and advertises the remaining inventory of 35 proofs.

Variations are available depending on quantity of proofs and material of composition - please contact via email for discussion of alternative options.

[thelonecrouton]

Pooling together for masternodes is going to end in tears when the operators disappear with all the perfectly anonymous currency. I see the usual suspects creating large pools for masternodes.

You could create a smart contract using BlackHalo for example to prevent theft.

This is also what NXT is for.

Problem at the moment is that someone somewhere still has to be trusted with the keys to the loot.

[coins101]

I think it's rather short sighted to be viewing DRK as the money making venture in and of itself.  The real money will be made in cottage industries surrounding DRK, which nobody here ever seems to talk about.  I mean, if someone came up with a secure way to pool resources for a MN, for example, I'd be willing to pay that person a fair fee to use his or her services.

Regarding Masternode fees: miners are mining coins which are so sought after precisely because of the Masternode network and the functionality that it brings to Darkcoin vs. our competition.  In large part, Darkcoin is what it is precisely because of the anonymization system Evan has built, and the Masternode network is the linchpin of that system.  It's rather silly to complain about supporting the very system that makes the coin you are mining unique and valuable, is it not?

And while we're on the subject, who ever said that Masternodes are the only way you'll be able to earn a proof of service return on DRK?

eltito you big tease, will there be some sort of Masternode API to allow 3rd parties to build services around MN infrastructure?

I'm thinking of a lease model, MN's paid according to resources used, service access via mobile app or wallet plugin.

That sounds interesting but somewhat dangerous?

[splawik21]

We are the core of the network performing the basic functions for anyone using Darkcoin, yet you call us lazy hypocritical parasites? because of a few annoying people? Quite disrespectful to say the least. You're engaging with trolls, and in the process you're actually upsetting genuine supporters/miners.

I've put a lot of work and money in my mining setup supporting what I believe to be first true altcoin (despite issues). I only started somewhere in March 2014, mining Litecoins mostly. It was the only cryptocurrency with some interest to me aside from Bitcoin, but I soon discovered a really interesting cryptocurrency called 'Darkcoin'. I actually bothered to sign up for this forum, mostly to be part of Darkcoin.

However, mining DRK hasn't been profitable at all (for me) and requires a lot of money, time and dedication. Some of the crappiest coins ever are still more profitable to mine than DRK. The price would still need to rise a lot for me to just break-even. I could mine other coins that are more profitable and exchange them for DRK, I could ride the scam waves, but I won't. I want to be part of DRK. I do it with tremendous pride being part of this incredible evolution (and community), despite the money I loose on it. I've learned so many interesting things due to cryptocurrency and this has more value to me than 'profit', but I'm not blind to 'profit'. It is an element of the equation, which should not be ignored.

In my opinion, setting up and running a MN is rediculously easy and is very profitable compared to mining, even in the future with ~2000 MN's. It's a profitable operation within a matter of days (worst case scenario). Mining is profitable maybe after a year, maybe more, maybe never. It's certainly not the smartest/most profitable way to "invest". When RC4 is out and fully working, I should actually consolidate my rigs and convert the money into a masternode and not ever worry again about my electricity bill. 5$/month for hosting cost, all the rest is profit. I currently pay close to €250/month to keep my 45 MH/s infrastructure running, earning me less than 1 DRK/day. Not complaining, just telling you my side of the story.

There is a difference between 'profit' and 'revenue'. Incentive to mine DRK has always been very low due to it's specific supply/distribution algorithm ánd still is today due to it's maintained high net hashrate versus low price. Why is Darkcoin always listed near the bottom of coinwarz.com? Right, cause it's not profitable to mine unless you have a rediculously low kWh price (I'm paying more than $0.1/kWh). Also, I'm not a trader, I'm yet to sell my first Darkcoin and I'm not going to for a very long time. Would prefer to actually use them some day.

Some Dark believers are more upsetting than an entire team of trolls. Nothing trolls say could ever make me change my mind about what I'm currently doing. Evan is doing something truely exceptional, introduced X11 chained algorithms for PoW to enhance the security of the network and Proof of Service masternodes providing a much needed level of anonimity which I consider the biggest flaw in Bitcoin. It's effectively a working "Proof of Stake" model and it will go beyond the current 'added value'. I couldn't care less about the 20% reward masternode owners get. This '20% cut' out of the mining revenue will some day be proven to be irrelevant, as MN's create a lot of additional value. It's an eco-system based on incentives and the reasoning should be correct. Price should go up and eventually even out your earnings as a miner. No reason to get upset over this, as long as it remains within certain limits, I'm totally fine with it. It's true that it is currently biased towards MN's, but this is also required to get things going. Marginal profitability for MN owners would not have gotten us to +600 MN's already. I get that.

I'm sure that many merchants will implement DRK as a payment method, once the core functionality has been proofed. Everybody knows we're still in the core development phase. I'm still extremely 'bullish' on DRK and will continue to be. Stop fighting trolls and help the Darkcoin team @ darkcointalk.org.

Regarding my previous post: so it is unfortunately 100% effective to mine on non-compliant pools, as long as enforcement is not activated. OK. No retro-active orphaning due to enforcement. Good to have this clarified. I'm still learning every day about blockchain technology and novel features of DRK are not always explained enough in detail for me. Thanks to those who replied. For the record, I'm obviously mining at a compliant pool and will continue to do so.

worth to bump it again

[thelonecrouton]

I think it's rather short sighted to be viewing DRK as the money making venture in and of itself.  The real money will be made in cottage industries surrounding DRK, which nobody here ever seems to talk about.  I mean, if someone came up with a secure way to pool resources for a MN, for example, I'd be willing to pay that person a fair fee to use his or her services.

Regarding Masternode fees: miners are mining coins which are so sought after precisely because of the Masternode network and the functionality that it brings to Darkcoin vs. our competition.  In large part, Darkcoin is what it is precisely because of the anonymization system Evan has built, and the Masternode network is the linchpin of that system.  It's rather silly to complain about supporting the very system that makes the coin you are mining unique and valuable, is it not?

And while we're on the subject, who ever said that Masternodes are the only way you'll be able to earn a proof of service return on DRK?

eltito you big tease, will there be some sort of Masternode API to allow 3rd parties to build services around MN infrastructure?

I'm thinking of a lease model, MN's paid according to resources used, service access via mobile app or wallet plugin.

That sounds interesting but somewhat dangerous?

How else are eltito's cottage industries going to utilise the MNs? Not a big issue with resource safeguards and permissions in place.

[camosoul]

Do you have a printably high rez version of this? For reasons...

I cant find the high rez but there is a place you can buy a poster, I bet it would look good in your livingroom  
http://store.ghoulishgary.com/product/troll-hunter

Too Small and Too Expensive to use as an actual target... Meh.

here i worked on it a little for ya
Troll-Hunter

See how easy it is to make money with DRK?

[badman74]

Do you have a printably high rez version of this? For reasons...

I cant find the high rez but there is a place you can buy a poster, I bet it would look good in your livingroom  
http://store.ghoulishgary.com/product/troll-hunter

Too Small and Too Expensive to use as an actual target... Meh.

here i worked on it a little for ya
Troll-Hunter

See how easy it is to make money with DRK?

lol i was just wondering who donated and why

[camosoul]

Mintpal got hacked today, dont use exchanges as a bank for your coins.

Such advice is like saying "Don't stab yourself in the eye with a rusty fork at a rate of 100 stabs per second for a duration of 70 years."

I don't mean to come down on you, but for those who might find this advice to be news... Fucking dumb. They're probably still waiting for a court settlement on all that BTC they lost in Gox, too... They just don't learn.

people new to crypto, like myself in november, have no clue at all what can go wrong. So better tell them about all holes they should not put the rosty fork inside, repeatedly

This isn't really about crypto, but about technology in general. People are always trusting things they don't understand and screwing up. It's why I got out of IT... So little real work, 99.99999% cleaning up lUsers' messes and listening to them whine about the dumb shit they did and telling me it's all my fault... If your money itself still doesn't motivate you to pull your head out of your ass, even after losing all your family photos, secret wank stash, etc... People like that never learn.

[camosoul]

Pooling together for masternodes is going to end in tears when the operators disappear with all the perfectly anonymous currency. I see the usual suspects creating large pools for masternodes.

Greed controlling weak people people adding trust to a trustless notion just to extract a tiny fraction of a penny...

Let them reap what they sow and don't EVER feel sorry for them.

[illodin]

Pooling together for masternodes is going to end in tears when the operators disappear with all the perfectly anonymous currency. I see the usual suspects creating large pools for masternodes.

You could create a smart contract using BlackHalo for example to prevent theft.

This is also what NXT is for.

Problem at the moment is that someone somewhere still has to be trusted with the keys to the loot.

As I understand how it would work, is that it would require a double deposit escrow, i.e.:

Client A makes 300 DRK escrow deposit and contract with MN admin
Client B makes 400 DRK escrow deposit and contract with MN admin
Client C makes 600 DRK escrow deposit and contract with MN admin

MN admin makes 300 DRK escrow deposit and contract with client A
MN admin makes 400 DRK escrow deposit and contract with client B
MN admin makes 600 DRK escrow deposit and contract with client C

Client A sends 200 DRK to MN admin
Client A sends 300 DRK to MN admin
Client A sends 500 DRK to MN admin


What follows from this, is that:

MN admin can't steal the 200 DRK from client A, because he would lose his 300 DRK escrow deposit
MN admin can't steal the 300 DRK from client B, because he would lose his 400 DRK escrow deposit
MN admin can't steal the 500 DRK from client C, because he would lose his 600 DRK escrow deposit


And then after a month (or whatever time) the masternode is taken down and funds sent back to clients:

Client A can't claim he didn't receive his 200 DRK back because he would lose his 300 DRK escrow deposit
Client B can't claim he didn't receive his 300 DRK back because he would lose his 400 DRK escrow deposit
Client C can't claim he didn't receive his 500 DRK back because he would lose his 600 DRK escrow deposit


You could adjust the numbers however you see fit, but the problem seems to be that the escrow amount has to bigger than your actual share of the node, so it's very inefficient. And the MN admin would have to have > 1000 DRK extra funds for every MN he hosts.

[DubFX]

What do you guys plan doing against pools that haven't used the fork yet and are boycotting against 20% mining fee?

[camosoul]

I think it's rather short sighted to be viewing DRK as the money making venture in and of itself.  The real money will be made in cottage industries surrounding DRK, which nobody here ever seems to talk about.  I mean, if someone came up with a secure way to pool resources for a MN, for example, I'd be willing to pay that person a fair fee to use his or her services.

Regarding Masternode fees: miners are mining coins which are so sought after precisely because of the Masternode network and the functionality that it brings to Darkcoin vs. our competition.  In large part, Darkcoin is what it is precisely because of the anonymization system Evan has built, and the Masternode network is the linchpin of that system.  It's rather silly to complain about supporting the very system that makes the coin you are mining unique and valuable, is it not?

And while we're on the subject, who ever said that Masternodes are the only way you'll be able to earn a proof of service return on DRK?

I think we covered most of that. Someone suggested memes only if you want to make those points again.  

Seriously, I do think, in a rather 'out there way', that MNs could be packaged up and floated on the NASDAQ at some point.

El Presidente pointed out that MN wallets can get earned coins sent to a second address. Multi-sig would mean that MNs could be put into a contractual relationship with a third party and these two aspects could keep the MN owners anonymous therefore not compromising the decentralised nature of the network.

The only missing part is how to contractually get MN owners to assign their MNs to a corporation, while maintaining them, without having to tell the corporation who they are. Multi-sig solves one aspect of controlling the money moving out without dual consent, but the corporation might have to have some form of lease agreement.

People cried BS about mining being a money hose, then GPUs, then FPGAs, and as their money hoses disappeared, they all whined the same song...

We'll go through the same thing with a new block proof process added in parallel with mining... The welfare junkies always lash out at the hand that feeds them... Too stupid to understand where their free ride is coming from.

I'm not calling all miners welfare junkies. Only the ones who don't understand it and make idiotic rants like shojay... If a miner is in any way invested in hardware, he better damn well be smart enough to see reality. If not, fuck 'em; just like everything else in the free market with no hand-holding sissy bullshit.

"It's not fair!" The losers whine...

Oh, yes it is! Nothing has ever been more fair than getting fucked for being a lazy dumbass.

DRK wouldn't be worth mining at all without the masternodes... Duh.

[thelonecrouton]

What do you guys plan doing against pools that haven't used the fork yet and are boycotting against 20% mining fee?

Most have been swayed by sweet words and gentle persuasion, the remaining few will simply have their blocks instantly orphaned when enforcement is in place and their miners will be wasting their electricity mining worthless coins that no exchange will confirm.

 

[camosoul]

Do you have a printably high rez version of this? For reasons...

I cant find the high rez but there is a place you can buy a poster, I bet it would look good in your livingroom  
http://store.ghoulishgary.com/product/troll-hunter

Too Small and Too Expensive to use as an actual target... Meh.

here i worked on it a little for ya
Troll-Hunter

See how easy it is to make money with DRK?

lol i was just wondering who donated and why

PEople call me a selfish profiteering dick, while doing not one damn thing to deserve any of my DRK.

All you really did was scale up an image. But it's more work than most of the people who hate me have done in the last 2200 pages of bullshit... ;-)

Just making the point. Enjoy.