[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[smoothie]

How is instamine even a big deal when most new coins are 100% premined. Look at Ethereum! A huge amount of pre mining and nobody cares. The hacking however...

The big difference is the DASH instamine was not announced ahead of time.

Premined coins are obviously going to have to be announced as premined before they even consider garnering users to utilize its network.

[volyova]

How is instamine even a big deal when most new coins are 100% premined. Look at Ethereum! A huge amount of pre mining and nobody cares. The hacking however...

The big difference is the DASH instamine was not announced ahead of time.

Premined coins are obviously going to have to be announced as premined before they even consider garnering users to utilize its network.

Exactly right, those DASH were mined unfairly.

[110110101]

How is instamine even a big deal when most new coins are 100% premined. Look at Ethereum! A huge amount of pre mining and nobody cares. The hacking however...

The big difference is the DASH instamine was not announced ahead of time.

Premined coins are obviously going to have to be announced as premined before they even consider garnering users to utilize its network.

Exactly right, those DASH were mined unfairly.

You could just as easily make the claim that the code was publicly open for everyone to read and the mining was therefore not unfair. Unintentional perhaps, but the mistake was dealt with once it was detected.

[BrainShutdown]

How is instamine even a big deal when most new coins are 100% premined. Look at Ethereum! A huge amount of pre mining and nobody cares. The hacking however...

The big difference is the DASH instamine was not announced ahead of time.

Premined coins are obviously going to have to be announced as premined before they even consider garnering users to utilize its network.

Exactly right, those DASH were mined unfairly.

Wrong! They were fairly mined as all the participants/miners at that time had the same chance of getting the coins

[ddink7]

I have absolutely no interest in Bitcoin...you've got that right. When we've created a superior project, why cater to the dinosaur any longer? I began my foray into crypto in November 2013, first with Litecoin, then Counterparty and Ethereum, and finally Dash. My account was created 2.5 years ago, so I'm not one of the "I knew Satoshi club" but I'm definitely not "fairly new."

Just for shits and giggles, reread my posts on Ethereum. I was routinely called a shill, but guess what? I was spot on. Anyone who had listened to me would have seen a FORTY FOLD return on their investment. Maybe you should listen to me about Dash?

By the way, since you have some free time, how about deanonymizing that tx I keep posting. Unless you can't?

P.S. I'm sorry that you bought Dash at the top of the market in May 2014 and then sold at the bottom three months later. I'm sorry you lost your house because of it. That's not Dash's fault--it's your own. Maybe your investment horizon should be a little longer?

Thanks for confirming you never had any interest in Bitcoin proper...

Was there ever any doubt? But nonetheless, you're welcome.

In any event, I'm really sorry for all the money you lost speculating on Dash back in the early days. If you had just held for longer, you'd have broken even by now. The good news is that even though you lost your home, your wife stuck by you. That's good, right? Focus on the positive my friend!

P.S. I can only wonder how much Monero would be worth now if it weren't for you. Your trollish antics have turned off a lot of people who would otherwise have been interested in Monero. I myself probably would have bought a little over the years, simply for the sake of diversification, if the project wasn't completely riddled with trolls. You are Monero's worst advertisement.

[NOjust]

I still hold DASH for the future

[110110101]

...... a lot of people who would otherwise have been interested in Monero.......

This is true for me as well. Just as much as I look at charts, coin features and white papers, I find it just as important what the the community behind a crypto currency locks like. I have put off several coins and ICOs that I invested in, simply because of the community being trollish or bad influences in general. It is apparent that a few bad apples can really bring down the overall image of a project, and this is especially true for the Monero project.

[BitWater]

...... a lot of people who would otherwise have been interested in Monero.......

This is true for me as well. Just as much as I look at charts, coin features and white papers, I find it just as important what the the community behind a crypto currency locks like. I have put off several coins and ICOs that I invested in, simply because of the community being trollish or bad influences in general. It is apparent that a few bad apples can really bring down the overall image of a project, and this is especially true for the Monero project.

This also applies to me.

[dark-sailor]

...... a lot of people who would otherwise have been interested in Monero.......

This is true for me as well. Just as much as I look at charts, coin features and white papers, I find it just as important what the the community behind a crypto currency locks like. I have put off several coins and ICOs that I invested in, simply because of the community being trollish or bad influences in general. It is apparent that a few bad apples can really bring down the overall image of a project, and this is especially true for the Monero project.

This also applies to me.

Me also and feel monero is the biggest scam of all with all the negative behaviour.

[arielbit]

this will give you folks a different angle on the instamine (crosspost from why dash instamine matters thread)

dash's first month

Ok I get it now. So it is no good. But can anyone explain why the price is rising?

It's rising because it's one of the most coherent monetary assets on coinmarketcap, being that it retains bitcoin's blokchain transparency while improving massively on its fungibility to the point that distinguishing characteristics between addresses are effectively eliminated.

Further, Dash has established a balanced approach between reserve and currency markets thats almost unmatched by any other cryptocurrency asset. That's to say that while some proportion of the coin supply is made available by holders on exchanges for trading, a significant proportion of the rest of it is deployed on the network and earns a return for its holders.

This is in fact not really true.  The coins held in Master nodes are not production investment that earns interest as in a normal currency reserve system, where "saving" is in fact (delegated) investment in production capital.  In other words, "saved" money in a normal monetary economy are not "put in a box" but are again actively used by entrepreneurs to buy production capital.  That money keeps flowing, in other words, it is not locked up in a box as is the case in a Master node.

The "interest earning" in Master nodes is nothing else but a re-distribution of seigniorage by mining ; in other words, a tax on every currency holder, that goes in the pockets of Master node holders: a transfer of wealth from active users to "passive possessors".

In a normal economy, the interest earned comes from the risk taken.  A master node locked up doesn't take the slightest bit of risk but earns 45% of the seigniorage.

You can say that in bitcoin too, there is inflation because of mining.  However, because in bitcoin, the full seigniorage goes to the miner, that miner will also be pushed by competition to BURN most of the seigniorage in PoW.  In DASH, because the miner will only receive 45% of the seigniorage, competition will only make him burn 45% of the seigniorage in PoW, and the rest goes in the pockets of Master nodes and the "gouvernors".  Now, that is EXTREMELY SIMILAR to central banking and their interest rates on issued currency feeding a whole bunch of elite with free money, taxed by inflation on all the others.

In bitcoin, at least, this "tax" is entirely (or almost entirely) burned by PoW, so there is not really a self-accumulation of wealth without risk by the "richies of the first hour(s)".

Also because of this lucrative locking up of a large part of the money supply in master nodes, the ACTUAL available market cap of DASH is way lower than is calculated, because the available coin supply is seriously lower than the total number of coins existing.  

But all this is not to point out that DASH is a kind of rip off.  There is simply no other way to do some form of automated secured coinjoin mixing with bitcoin technology: you need "trusted parties", and so you need to provide them with sufficient incentive to do so (the master nodes).  This implies re-centralisation, governance, and hence, taxes and lucrative happenings for the elite which get richer.

The remaining question is how many master nodes are under independent control.  If that number is too small, then the anonymity of the mixing becomes compromised too.

masternodes are already in plan even before they launched dash....hence the importance of the instamine to grab an astounding amount of dash

This is another lie (a lie you like to repeat again and again). I know because I was there.

Anyone can read the Dash thread from day one to check.

here goes... get ready for some ass whoopin! and check the dates

Great, now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones! Time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do.

this is posted after the 48hr instamine

ka ching! Evan and his friends pocketed a lot of coins.... great indeed very great Evan *clap* *clap*

aaaaannd before he posted this (quote below)

Evan already forked DASH from 84 Million supply to about 21 Million

and you can see him posting, WTB 20,000 and WTB 10,000 DASH  <------ the greed of this guy knows no boundary 

and then this! (the vision of this project and milestones)

In reply to: http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/1yit1a/using_coinjoin_for_anonymity_is_errorprone/

I'm posting this here, for everyone's benefit. Thanks!

Hi, I am Gnosis, the Anoncoin developer working on implementing Zerocoin. First of all, I think it is excellent that there is so much interest in developing a fully anonymous currency. I am not just a developer but also a user, or I will be when an anonymous currency exists! When coin creators compete, the coin users win!
However, CoinJoin has been around for a while, and it has not seen much use for anonymity. There's a good reason for that: it's not very anonymous.
Quoting my bitcointalk post:

CoinJoin has questionable anonymity compared to Zerocoin. The reason is that with CoinJoin, two or more users must somehow partner up and forge a transaction together. They communicate over a secure channel to do this. The coins are only mixed among these "partners." Picking partners you can trust is a significant obstacle: how can you know that your partners will "forget" the mixing that happened? One may try to repeat this 10 times with randomly chosen partners, but how can you know that your partners are not all just sock puppets of one malicious entity (on an anonymous network, it is trivial to create as many fake users as you want )? If that is the case, then your efforts are in vain.
Compare this with Zerocoin, where you put your coins in an accumulator, and they are mixed with the coins of all users who have put coins into that accumulator, since the beginning of Zerocoin. There would be a different accumulator for different denominations of Anoncoins (1, 5, 10, 50 ANC, etc.).
To put it simply, the more users' coins your coins are mixed with, the more anonymity you have.
I cannot speak to Darkcoin's implementation (or planned implementation) of CoinJoin since I cannot seem to find any specs or code on their Github or their site. If anyone knows, please point me to them.

I look forward to a practical and secure solution for anonymity from the DarkCoin devs!

First off, these are fantastic questions. The answer to implementing this in such a way where it is very difficulty to exploit is by adding cost and verification.

Here’s the gist of how I envision DarkSend to work in the long run. Some of what I’m going to mention is done, some of it I’m working on currently. I’d love some ideas on possible attack vectors on my implementation, so we can make it as bulletproof as possible.

Pools

DarkSend adds various extensions to the Bitcoin protocol for implementing transaction pooling. Like normal Coinjoin the pools take transactions in stages. The stages currently are:

POOL_STATUS_IDLE
POOL_STATUS_ACCEPTING_INPUTS
POOL_STATUS_ACCEPTING_OUTPUTS
POOL_STATUS_SIGNING
POOL_STATUS_TRANSMISSION

So the users relay these items throughout the network as the stages happen. After all items are gathered into the pool, the transactions are merged together into one, remotely signed and then broadcasted.

Masters

To defeat propagation problems, master nodes are elected each new block. They are responsible for being the authority of what goes into the joined transaction each session. This is done in a tamperproof way, but I think it’s not important to the discussion.

So what is the cost?

There must be a cost to using this anonymous network, otherwise like you say there will be issues with millions of accounts popping up. I’m not dead set on which solution(s) to implement, but here’s a couple ideas:

Burnt Identities

Higher difficulty shares to the current block would be mined and then stored in the blockchain permanently. Multiple of these would be used for each transaction and would be “burnt” when misused, causing the attacker to have to mine them again.  

Verification?

To use the pools it will require unique unspend outputs, someone that wants to mess with the system would have to have a large pool of funds in many addresses. So to attack a pool with 100 slots, you would require funds dispersed to 99 addresses, on 99 nodes working in common.

Other possible fee-less solutions?

There is interesting research on protecting against sybil attacks that lends itself really well to a decentralized ledger, such as this paper:

http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/Workshops/InformationSecurity/slides/gamesandreputation.pdf

The idea is to build a social graph of the inputs and outputs of each entry and they should all know different people. If 99 of them all have the same “friends” that they associate with, then they’ll have to enter a different pool. Which will ensure the pool is not full of the nodes belonging to the attacker.

An application for machine learning?

I’m been making models for trading equities for over 7 years now. I ran a financial firm that sold the signals for a few years and I have experience with natural language processing using classifiers. So, I could make a classifier and actually embed it into Darkcoin to determine which pool a node should use, to separate out nodes that seem to be in common.

Other ideas?

I’m open to ideas on how to provide the best security to the network. I would love to hear what people have in mind.

I’ve been working on DarkSend about a month and we’ve already fixed the decentralization and propagation issues, this is just another bridge to cross in the future.

Thanks!

BOOM! a month after the launch date (instamine), accumulation and forking the coin...GREAT indeed Evan *clap* *clap*


postlude...

it is not about just bugs in the code, its about how sneaky and untrustworthy dash beginnings is.

[aigeezer]

...... a lot of people who would otherwise have been interested in Monero.......

This is true for me as well. Just as much as I look at charts, coin features and white papers, I find it just as important what the the community behind a crypto currency locks like. I have put off several coins and ICOs that I invested in, simply because of the community being trollish or bad influences in general. It is apparent that a few bad apples can really bring down the overall image of a project, and this is especially true for the Monero project.

This also applies to me.

Me too, and it would have been an obvious candidate for diversification without the trolls. Their trolling style is classic agent provocateur stuff though - wear the emblem of one faction and hurl insults at another, while your actual undisclosed loyalties lie elsewhere.

The trolls have managed to muddy the water for both coins, but also for all of crypto. I doubt that this is accidental.

At risk of overthinking it, the answer to a cui bono question about the incessant trolling is "fiat-world". Crypto, preferably Dash, will eat their lunch eventually. It will get uglier first though.

[volyova]

How is instamine even a big deal when most new coins are 100% premined. Look at Ethereum! A huge amount of pre mining and nobody cares. The hacking however...

The big difference is the DASH instamine was not announced ahead of time.

Premined coins are obviously going to have to be announced as premined before they even consider garnering users to utilize its network.

Exactly right, those DASH were mined unfairly.

You could just as easily make the claim that the code was publicly open for everyone to read and the mining was therefore not unfair. Unintentional perhaps, but the mistake was dealt with once it was detected.

"unintentional" LOOOOL.  Pull the other one, mate. People weren't born yesterday.


To all newcomers: DASH will be deemed illegal in the near future. This is why Apple removed it from the App store, and they didn't remove any other coin apart from DASH. So if you don't want the S.E.C. on your back (and you really don't), don't invest in this scamcoin. Peace.

[ddink7]

To all newcomers:

Do you find that people often accept legal advice from strangers on a web forum? Just curious.

[toknormal]

Do you find that people often accept legal advice from strangers on a web forum? Just curious.

Be advised, the volyova poster is a kind of zombie troll account.

Its entire history consists of gratuitous, doting one-liners on a range of coins. Conversation is not its forte 

[dafdaf]

blah blah blahhhhh

Another “hero member” on ignore.

[volyova]

Do you find that people often accept legal advice from strangers on a web forum? Just curious.

Be advised, the volyova poster is a kind of zombie troll account.

Its entire history consists of gratuitous, doting one-liners on a range of coins. Conversation is not its forte  

WRONG! I'm actually a previous investor in DASH who is trying to warn newcomers to crypto, so they don't lose all their money. And WTF is a "zombie-troll account"? You just sound silly.

blah blah blahhhhh

Another “hero member” on ignore.

I don't care if you ignore me. My goal is to warn newcomers to this thread and I will continue to do so.

[toknormal]

My goal is to warn newcomers to this thread and I will continue to do so.

Translation: you dumped your holdings and then regretted it.

No worries. I'm sure they're being put to good use.

[ddink7]

Do you find that people often accept legal advice from strangers on a web forum? Just curious.

Be advised, the volyova poster is a kind of zombie troll account.

Its entire history consists of gratuitous, doting one-liners on a range of coins. Conversation is not its forte  

WRONG! I'm actually a previous investor in DASH

That explains it all! So as a previous investor in Dash, you either:

a) Bought at the height of the May 2014 bubble and sold near the bottom, like ICEBREAKER;

b) Sold awhile ago and are now angry because if you had held on to your stake it would be worth drastically more than it was when you sold it;

c) Since you seem so concerned about the "legality" of Dash, perhaps you got involved in some sketchy activity, used Dash to pay for it, and then got caught?

Sour grapes...I understand. Happens to the best of us. I'm bookmarking this post so that I can quote it in the future whenever you pop your head up. That way everybody will be reminded of your motivations.

[volyova]

Do you find that people often accept legal advice from strangers on a web forum? Just curious.

Be advised, the volyova poster is a kind of zombie troll account.

Its entire history consists of gratuitous, doting one-liners on a range of coins. Conversation is not its forte 

WRONG! I'm actually a previous investor in DASH

That explains it all! So as a previous investor in Dash, you either:

a) Bought at the height of the May 2014 bubble and sold near the bottom, like ICEBREAKER;
b) Sold awhile ago and are now angry because if you had held on to your stake it would be worth drastically more than it was when you sold it.

Sour grapes...I understand. Happens to the best of us.

Nope, I made 2x on DASH and got the fuck out of dodge sharpish, counting myself lucky..

[ddink7]

Do you find that people often accept legal advice from strangers on a web forum? Just curious.

Be advised, the volyova poster is a kind of zombie troll account.

Its entire history consists of gratuitous, doting one-liners on a range of coins. Conversation is not its forte 

WRONG! I'm actually a previous investor in DASH

That explains it all! So as a previous investor in Dash, you either:

a) Bought at the height of the May 2014 bubble and sold near the bottom, like ICEBREAKER;
b) Sold awhile ago and are now angry because if you had held on to your stake it would be worth drastically more than it was when you sold it.

Sour grapes...I understand. Happens to the best of us.

Nope, I made 2x on DASH and got the fuck out of dodge sharpish, counting myself lucky..

So option b) then...you doubled your money but could have quadrupled it. That's enough to give anybody sour grapes!