[POOL][Scrypt][Scrypt-N][X11] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com

[fcmatt]

The top miner currently provides 6.10 GH/s... This clearly seems to be a botnet. I know that this give you a lot of coins, but nevertheless - most pools try to lock out botnets, because it's not only a crime, but also a huge waste of energy.

You're assuming it's a botnet based on zero evidence. You are also assuming botnets are illegal, botnets aren't illegal, but using computers on people unknowingly is illegal.

This could be a company who manufacturers ASIC's, or simply a large GPU farm.

actually it is pretty easy to determine if it is a botnet or not by simply checking how many IPs they are coming from. If they are coming from
one IP address or a dozen you can make a good case they are not a botnet. If they are coming from 15,000 IP addresses you can be quite sure they are
a botnet and no single person or company would be using that many IPs from different subnets world wide to mine alt coins.

My main worry is that if you remove the botnet you will get a denial of service attack. a crippling attack that destroys your business.

so what is an admin to do?

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[zneww]

The top miner currently provides 6.10 GH/s... This clearly seems to be a botnet. I know that this give you a lot of coins, but nevertheless - most pools try to lock out botnets, because it's not only a crime, but also a huge waste of energy.

You're assuming it's a botnet based on zero evidence. You are also assuming botnets are illegal, botnets aren't illegal, but using computers on people unknowingly is illegal.

This could be a company who manufacturers ASIC's, or simply a large GPU farm.

actually it is pretty easy to determine if it is a botnet or not by simply checking how many IPs they are coming from. If they are coming from
one IP address or a dozen you can make a good case they are not a botnet. If they are coming from 15,000 IP addresses you can be quite sure they are
a botnet and no single person or company would be using that many IPs from different subnets world wide to mine alt coins.

My main worry is that if you remove the botnet you will get a denial of service attack. a crippling attack that destroys your business.

so what is an admin to do?

pretty sure waffle said it was one ip

[Uniphase21]

Guys / Girls,

I have several rigs and I am looking to invest in more. My question is what is the likelyhood of ASICs putting wafflepool or middlecoin out of the market in what we are doing here? It seems to me that this pool will always protect us and we will be able to mine with GPUs.

I would like anyone's thoughts here before I invest another 20 or 30 grand in this.

Thanks in advance

[igroock]

Guys / Girls,

I have several rigs and I am looking to invest in more. My question is what is the likelyhood of ASICs putting wafflepool or middlecoin out of the market in what we are doing here? It seems to me that this pool will always protect us and we will be able to mine with GPUs.

I would like anyone's thoughts here before I invest another 20 or 30 grand in this.

Thanks in advance

you wont see asics for scrypt anytime soon. their cost is also not much better than what you get with a GPU, you only save on energy. dont worry about it for now

[fcmatt]

The top miner currently provides 6.10 GH/s... This clearly seems to be a botnet. I know that this give you a lot of coins, but nevertheless - most pools try to lock out botnets, because it's not only a crime, but also a huge waste of energy.

You're assuming it's a botnet based on zero evidence. You are also assuming botnets are illegal, botnets aren't illegal, but using computers on people unknowingly is illegal.

This could be a company who manufacturers ASIC's, or simply a large GPU farm.

actually it is pretty easy to determine if it is a botnet or not by simply checking how many IPs they are coming from. If they are coming from
one IP address or a dozen you can make a good case they are not a botnet. If they are coming from 15,000 IP addresses you can be quite sure they are
a botnet and no single person or company would be using that many IPs from different subnets world wide to mine alt coins.

My main worry is that if you remove the botnet you will get a denial of service attack. a crippling attack that destroys your business.

so what is an admin to do?

pretty sure waffle said it was one ip

that is pretty neat then. Either a botnet owner was smart enough to create a stratum proxy themselves or someone has a mega hash farm/asic farm that is bigger
then anything i ever heard of. So if it is still a botnet.. if they are coming from a single ip.. it might be a lot tougher to determine the truth and one cannot act rashly.

[Sk1llS]

I asked PoolWaffle those questions a few pages back but got no response.

1. How many is multiple miners? 1000 , 4000, 20000?

2. Are the hashrates for each miner similar? Or does each miner have a random/unique hashrate?

3. Also are the IP's of the miners random or coming from the same IP block?

Just trying to deduce if it's factory testing asics, a legitimate user or a botnet. This is the 6.25 GH/s account: http://wafflepool.com/miner/14t8yB3PDGfZT3VppxMY4J9xiBaXUcZvKp

[gsrcrxsi]

the fastest SINGLE card video card is the 7990. lets be generous and say this guy can get 1300KH/s out of each one.  

to get 6.0GH/s, you would need over 4500 7990 GPUs...

thats just insane. something that size is just unimaginable.

[phzi]

Poolwaffle:

I generally agree with your thoughts regarding the efforts required to mine smaller coins.  But I think it is significant to consider that wafflepool can contribute at least part of its success because we didn't avoid high-diff coins like Doge (smart logic).  I also think multi-pools are generally damaging to alt-coins, and don't have a problem with that because I think there are simply too many of them popping up all the time.  But, if we never mine low-diff coins, I think we will be impacting the profitability of scrypt mining in general, much more rapidly.  

Maybe it would be worth redirecting a small portion of hashrate to low-diff coins that are relatively stable.  I am envisioning a system that would put a small subset of our miners on low-diff coins somewhat persistently.  Take cosmocoin - if you directed a small amount of the pool's hashrate there with the intent to only play a small roll in the network consistently (think, much smaller then 50% of the network hashrate), and try to target coins that we can just leave a chunk of hashrate on for the majority of the time. The quick math is my head seems to suggest this would increase the pool's profits overall by a few percentage.

Does that make any sense to you?  Maybe I will try to run some numbers to validate (or disprove) my thoughts.

Guys / Girls,

I have several rigs and I am looking to invest in more. My question is what is the likelyhood of ASICs putting wafflepool or middlecoin out of the market in what we are doing here? It seems to me that this pool will always protect us and we will be able to mine with GPUs.

I would like anyone's thoughts here before I invest another 20 or 30 grand in this.

Thanks in advance

You have to consider the potential behind scrypt mining in general, and how ASICs will impact scrypt alt-coins and big networks like LTC or DOGE.  At the moment, it seems unlikely that ASICs will have any real impact on global scrypt hashrates until Q3 at the earliest, so that gives us another 4-6 months minimum of GPU dominance.

But, will alt-coins remain this profitable to mine?  Ask yourself if you think there will be another DOGE, or if DOGE will remain profitable given another block halving.  Do we even need all these alt-coins, what is there real purpose?  Everyone will probably have their own speculative answers, and you need to decide what is most likely in your mind.

If you're thinking about investing in GPUs, also remember that miners use them as "Generic" Processing Units... so even if ASICs make GPU mining scrypt totally unprofitable, that doesn't mean that scrypt-jane, sha3, or various other algorithms won't be profitable to mine with GPUs, as ASICs will have no impact on those algorithms.  That is, if you think alt-coins will actually stick around and be profitable...

All this said, this is probably a much better topic for a separate thread, if you want to continue the discussion.

pretty sure waffle said it was one ip

This also doesn't prove it's not a botnet of course (you can relay all your drone mining traffic thru a single server), but really people just need to just stop caring about these big mining accounts.  Nothing you can do about it really...  And it doesn't hurt us any.

Moreover, let's please keep the middlecoin-style unfounded speculation about botnets, or ASIC farms, or etc out of this thread.  It would be nice to think this thread can stay more mature then we've seen over at the MC bitch fest thread.

the fastest SINGLE card video card is the 7990. lets be generous and say this guy can get 1300KH/s out of each one.  

to get 6.0GH/s, you would need over 4500 7990 GPUs...

thats just insane. something that size is just unimaginable.

There are absolutely GPU farms this big in China or Korea... and there are also ASIC manufactures like gridseed that could be testing chips.  Stop beating a dead horse and please just leave the botnet vs whatever topic alone.  Who cares?

There are also people with 100s of GPUs in their garage... and this kind of hashing power would be only an order of magnitude larger.  Also consider that GPUs like R9 290s can potentially reach 1MH/s+ with effective tuning and BIOS modification.  No reason an ODM couldn't be building super performing MPU (Mining Processing Units) for themselves out of top binned Hawaii chips.  Not everyone is limited to consumer grade crud.

[poolwaffle]

I asked PoolWaffle those questions a few pages back but got no response.

1. How many is multiple miners? 1000 , 4000, 20000?

2. Are the hashrates for each miner similar? Or does each miner have a random/unique hashrate?

3. Also are the IP's of the miners random or coming from the same IP block?

Just trying to deduce if it's factory testing asics, a legitimate user or a botnet. This is the 6.25 GH/s account: http://wafflepool.com/miner/14t8yB3PDGfZT3VppxMY4J9xiBaXUcZvKp

Without giving out too much info (I'm sure the miner would post it here if he wanted it known).  It is multiple miners, but from what we can see, definitely not a bot net (assuming botnet would be thousands of miners), this is only a few (under 100).  Hashrates are similar, obviously built rigs of some sort (all very close increments of 100MHs [some 100MHs, some 500MHs, etc]).  All coming from a select few blocks of IPs.

I'm very doubtful of it being a botnet.  More likely someone with a huge farm.  In all seriousness, 5000 high end graphics cards is only 2mil USD.  Consider it this way, if its profitable for the average person to build a small rig (5-10MHs) and mine, it should be MORE profitable to build larger rigs and mine (economies of scale).  Guessing this person either pooled money, found investments, or was just wealthy and wanted to try it out.

Short story: very unlikely to be a botnet.

[LordShanken]

The top miner currently provides 6.10 GH/s... This clearly seems to be a botnet. I know that this give you a lot of coins, but nevertheless - most pools try to lock out botnets, because it's not only a crime, but also a huge waste of energy.

You're assuming it's a botnet based on zero evidence. You are also assuming botnets are illegal, botnets aren't illegal, but using computers on people unknowingly is illegal.

This could be a company who manufacturers ASIC's, or simply a large GPU farm.

I am assuming it's a botnet for good reason. Isn't it funny, that there are plenty of GPU farms in the range till 250 MHash - all close to each other with the hashrate they provide. After that range you won't see any farms... just a few with ridiculously high hash rates. If there is a GPU farm with 6.1 Ghash... Why no with 1 GHash? 1.1? 1.2? 1.3? 1.4? 2.0? 2.5? 3.1? 4.2? Probability calculation is the evidence in this particular case.

If I flip a coin a hundred times and it always shows head - wouldn't you assume that this coin has two identical faces? What are you going to do if I tell you that your assumption is based on zero evidence?

This is most likely a botnet. Even all the power comes from a single ip. It's pretty easy to delegate work.

[bigblind]

The top miner currently provides 6.10 GH/s... This clearly seems to be a botnet. I know that this give you a lot of coins, but nevertheless - most pools try to lock out botnets, because it's not only a crime, but also a huge waste of energy.

in my opinion if botnot or not what is worth is that we wont be able anymore to mine smaller coins with higher profit now...

[bolus7]

Could it be someone from https://alpha-t.net/shop/ testing equipment?

[bigblind]

anyway:

ARE THE POOLS DOWN ATM?

[Okilo]

anyway:

ARE THE POOLS DOWN ATM?

No, seems to be working fine.

[gsrcrxsi]

working fine here too

[phzi]

anyway:

ARE THE POOLS DOWN ATM?

Working fine here... No issues, solid acceptance rates from all my rigs, and good profit rate so far today.

Could it be someone from https://alpha-t.net/shop/ testing equipment?

No...  they aren't anywhere near tape-out yet.  It could be private ASIC development, or gridseed or something tho.

--

PoolWaffle has addressed the botnet question, so please please stop cluttering the thread about this.  It's just super annoying and serves no useful purpose.

[gaalx]

poolwaffle, supposed support for older users (not myself), for example those on the bullet from the outset. Thank you.

[LordShanken]

Without giving out too much info (I'm sure the miner would post it here if he wanted it known).  It is multiple miners, but from what we can see, definitely not a bot net (assuming botnet would be thousands of miners), this is only a few (under 100).  Hashrates are similar, obviously built rigs of some sort (all very close increments of 100MHs [some 100MHs, some 500MHs, etc]).  All coming from a select few blocks of IPs.

I'm very doubtful of it being a botnet.  More likely someone with a huge farm.  In all seriousness, 5000 high end graphics cards is only 2mil USD.  Consider it this way, if its profitable for the average person to build a small rig (5-10MHs) and mine, it should be MORE profitable to build larger rigs and mine (economies of scale).  Guessing this person either pooled money, found investments, or was just wealthy and wanted to try it out.

Short story: very unlikely to be a botnet.

I disagree. One would be crazy to point all bots to a single ip. Your server won't be able to handle all those connections. It's totally reasonable to combine a few thousands of them.

And you are talking about "this person". If it was a GPU farm, there is no way for a single person to handle all those GPUs. You will have more dead fans a day than you will be able to replace. You need dozens of people to run such a farm. Considering the amount of work to build such a farm, hire the people to manage all those rigs, dealing with electricity and so on... this is an investment if at least 5 mil. USD. And with that amount of money, it's totally lame to point all your rigs to a pool of a hobbyist (no offense - you are doing great work!). Creating a multipool just for yourself is not that complicated. Investing 5 mil. USD in a mining farm and not paying 50K USD to a software developer is very unlikely to happen. :-)

My suggestion: ask the operator to contact you via PM and, of course, handle all communication confidential. It's should be easy for him to provide some evidence that this is just a ultra-large GPU farm.

[sfire]

The top miner currently provides 6.10 GH/s... This clearly seems to be a botnet. I know that this give you a lot of coins, but nevertheless - most pools try to lock out botnets, because it's not only a crime, but also a huge waste of energy.

We are a large ASIC + GPU farm, no botnets.

If botnets, Hashrate will up and down when people turn on and shut down they computer.
But we Hashrate is stable

[Sk1llS]

It is multiple miners, but from what we can see, definitely not a bot net (assuming botnet would be thousands of miners), this is only a few (under 100).
Hashrates are similar, obviously built rigs of some sort (all very close increments of 100MHs [some 100MHs, some 500MHs, etc]).
All coming from a select few blocks of IPs.

Thanks, that's all I wanted to know