[POOL][Scrypt][Scrypt-N][X11] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com

[poolwaffle]

As some of you might notice on the stats page, I've removed the pie-charts showing what we're mining.  This is for two major reasons.

1) It was already moderately inaccurate (it was based on switch timings, and not on shares submitted)

2) I've replaced our entire switching system with a new version just now for testing over the next few hours (needs probably 6-12 hours of testing to get any real results), and the new switching system doesn't work nicely with the old way of calculating what we were mining essentially.

On to the exciting part.  We've got a new switcher in place.  It allows us to switch segments of the pool to different coins based on a variety of factors.  It _ideally_ lets us get back to mining coins under 10-20 difficulty without the huge increase in orphans (the main reason we couldn't before).  What this means for you, is ideally our profitability increases (very difficult to tell by how much), assuming everything works.

I'll obviously be monitoring the profitability stats over the new few hours and throughout tomorrow.  Its unfortunately difficult to tell what effect it has over a short period of time (any change in profitability can be attributed to market [price changes], luck, or switcher), so as long as we're not plus or minus more than 10% or so, I'll try to let it ride out to try to rule out factors other than the switcher.

Was a long day of code, I'm stoked to see it in action

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[Axco]

Nice. 

[phzi]

Very cool. Congrats on the big milestone in WP history, poolwaffle.  Looking forward to see how the new system fairs over the next few days.

[CoinBuzz]

@poolwaffle :

I think now you can add a lot of small coins (maybe top 10 in coinwarz) to include them in mine system.

[phzi]

@poolwaffle :

I think now you can add a lot of small coins (maybe top 10 in coinwarz) to include them in mine system.

Lol... one step at a time...  wait to see how the new switching system works first.

Coinwarz is also pretty useless, because it doesn't consider market depth or variable block rewards.

[CoinBuzz]

@poolwaffle :

I think now you can add a lot of small coins (maybe top 10 in coinwarz) to include them in mine system.

Lol... one step at a time...  wait to see how the new switching system works first.

Coinwarz is also pretty useless, because it doesn't consider market depth or variable block rewards.

how can we find out if new system works, if we mine same coin list as before?

[toxic0n]

So I'm new to this so excuse my stupid questions. I've decided to do some mining for fun with a few VPSes I have access to and people seem to be happy with this pool so I joined.
I'm pulling between 110 - 330 kH/s which amounts to a few cents a day. Not much of a return but this is mostly for fun and is free.

I see some used miners on Craiglist for sale, for example a 60 GH/s BFL Single for 800 bucks. Or Red Fury 2.5Gh/s units for $100. Or a 38 GH/s Block Erupter ASIC Cube for $500

Now my question, what is the expected GH/s if I picked up a unit like that? The whale you guys are talking about has like 8 GH/s and the whole pool is under 30. Are these mining units measured differently somehow or am I missing something?
Are those rates for mining Bitcoins only and cannot be applied to alt coins?

[poolwaffle]

I think now you can add a lot of small coins (maybe top 10 in coinwarz) to include them in mine system.

The majority of those I think we already support, and those that we don't have very specific reasons (note, this is just when I'm pulling it):
Grandcoin: 0.58 difficulty (way too low, even switching only a fraction of a pool will cause huge numbers of orphans / wasted power)
Mintcoin: supported
Reddcoin: supported
Diamond: 1.23 difficulty (same as grand)
Flappycoin: just added today to coinwarz, has a total of 4.8 btc of exchange depth before being 50% reduced in price (about 15 minutes of mining time)
Coino: also rediculously low difficulty (1.44)
Lucky: rediculously low difficulty (1.2)
Neocoin: tons of changes needed to be supported (tons of extra rules in block parsing)
Nyancoin: a total of 1btc depth (about 3 minutes of mining until it is 100% worthless)
Catcoin: should probably add
Penguin: supported
Doge: supported

Did I miss any?

[poolwaffle]

So I'm new to this so excuse my stupid questions. I've decided to do some mining for fun with a few VPSes I have access to and people seem to be happy with this pool so I joined.
I'm pulling between 110 - 330 kH/s which amounts to a few cents a day. Not much of a return but this is mostly for fun and is free.

I see some used miners on Craiglist for sale, for example a 60 GH/s BFL Single for 800 bucks. Or Red Fury 2.5Gh/s units for $100. Or a 38 GH/s Block Erupter ASIC Cube for $500

Now my question, what is the expected GH/s if I picked up a unit like that? The whale you guys are talking about has like 8 GH/s and the whole pool is under 30. Are these mining units measured differently somehow or am I missing something?
Are those rates for mining Bitcoins only and cannot be applied to alt coins?

All of those mentioned are bitcoin miners (sha256), all of the coins supported on wafflepool are scrypt (completely different algorithms).

[poolwaffle]

@poolwaffle :

I think now you can add a lot of small coins (maybe top 10 in coinwarz) to include them in mine system.

Lol... one step at a time...  wait to see how the new switching system works first.

Coinwarz is also pretty useless, because it doesn't consider market depth or variable block rewards.

how can we find out if new system works, if we mine same coin list as before?

With the new system we are mining more coins than we were before, but even with the ability to mine more coins, there are limits to what amount of power we can switch at a time.  With the new system, we can switch (roughly) increments of 1ghs, which is awesome compared to what we could previously do (whole 18ghs pool).  But even at 1ghs, certain coins are still too small to reasonably mine. 

Ideally to mine coins with difficulties down near 1.0, we would need to be able to switch something like 200-300MHs at a time, which is just something we can't do yet.  This is a huge step in the right direction, and if the switcher performs well here, we can likely take it steps further, but for the time being, some coins are just too small.

[GalacticMiningCorp]

I see some used miners on Craiglist for sale, for example a 60 GH/s BFL Single for 800 bucks. Or Red Fury 2.5Gh/s units for $100. Or a 38 GH/s Block Erupter ASIC Cube for $500

As mentioned, those are sha256, not scrypt, so wouldn't apply to wafflepool. You can use them in a similar way to wafflepool at megamultipool - they do profit switching sha256. I've got a single block eruptor (10Ghs) running on mega, but it's only pulling in about $1/day's worth.

At this point, if I were you, I'd spend the money on a couple Radeon 270s. You'd end up making about $3/day at current market conditions.

[CoinBuzz]

I think now you can add a lot of small coins (maybe top 10 in coinwarz) to include them in mine system.

The majority of those I think we already support, and those that we don't have very specific reasons (note, this is just when I'm pulling it):
Grandcoin: 0.58 difficulty (way too low, even switching only a fraction of a pool will cause huge numbers of orphans / wasted power)
Mintcoin: supported
Reddcoin: supported
Diamond: 1.23 difficulty (same as grand)
Flappycoin: just added today to coinwarz, has a total of 4.8 btc of exchange depth before being 50% reduced in price (about 15 minutes of mining time)
Coino: also rediculously low difficulty (1.44)
Lucky: rediculously low difficulty (1.2)
Neocoin: tons of changes needed to be supported (tons of extra rules in block parsing)
Nyancoin: a total of 1btc depth (about 3 minutes of mining until it is 100% worthless)
Catcoin: should probably add
Penguin: supported
Doge: supported

Did I miss any?

thanks for ur answer,
what if pool can dedicate tiny part to them in order to fill those little buy supports in market, thats easy money to gain.

[phzi]

thanks for ur answer,
what if pool can dedicate tiny part to them in order to fill those little buy supports in market, thats easy money to gain.

I don't think a 10% increase in profitability over mining something else is worth the risk that someone else is going to dump on the market before us.  Market depth is very important.  And I presume poolwaffle is busy enough without adding coin daemons that we may only use for a few minutes and then discard, for a tiny tiny increase in profit (if any).

[poolwaffle]

what if pool can dedicate tiny part to them in order to fill those little buy supports in market, thats easy money to gain.

So the first issue is we really can't switch a small enough amount that we would need to to make them worth it (200-300MHs), and even if we could, you're talking about switching 1.5% of the pool, for earning a coin that is (at best), 50% more valuable, and carries a much higher risk (orphans, price, etc).  You're looking at a potential upside of 0.75% (less than 1%) for a decently sized risk, and easily more than a 1% increase in server capacity to handle such switching capabilities.

So long story short, while it is possible to eek out that extra ~1%, its just not worth it (at least at the current time).

[toxic0n]

I see some used miners on Craiglist for sale, for example a 60 GH/s BFL Single for 800 bucks. Or Red Fury 2.5Gh/s units for $100. Or a 38 GH/s Block Erupter ASIC Cube for $500

As mentioned, those are sha256, not scrypt, so wouldn't apply to wafflepool. You can use them in a similar way to wafflepool at megamultipool - they do profit switching sha256. I've got a single block eruptor (10Ghs) running on mega, but it's only pulling in about $1/day's worth.

At this point, if I were you, I'd spend the money on a couple Radeon 270s. You'd end up making about $3/day at current market conditions.

Thanks for the responses, that makes sense. Looking for Scrypt miners, there are some custom built units, for example a 900 kH/s for 800 dollars or 600kH/s - $500. Looks like they are based on ATI video cards and go for around $100 per 100kH/s.

Of course, I also found a Radeon 7850 for $160 that is supposed to do 350 kH/s and dual 6970 for $400 that will do 850 kH/s....hmmm, I've been meaning to upgrade my gaming rig.

Last question, is there a good profitability calculator for what we are doing? I understand now that those bitcoin ones out there do not apply.

[tblack]

I'm using mostly used 5850s. They are around $100 and can do 350-400KH depending on the OC they allow. Used PSUs and used old Asus P5B and P5K motherboards with the cheapest CPU I can find. At least 1,5GB of RAM needed too. A rig with 700-750KH costs around $300. Electricity is free for me.

[phzi]

Thanks for the responses, that makes sense. Looking for Scrypt miners, there are some custom built units, for example a 900 kH/s for 800 dollars or 600kH/s - $500. Looks like they are based on ATI video cards and go for around $100 per 100kH/s.

Of course, I also found a Radeon 7850 for $160 that is supposed to do 350 kH/s and dual 6970 for $400 that will do 850 kH/s....hmmm, I've been meaning to upgrade my gaming rig.

Last question, is there a good profitability calculator for what we are doing? I understand now that those bitcoin ones out there do not apply.

Scrypt mining, at this point, is almost entirely done by AMD GPUs.  This might change, as ASIC equipment is likely to roll out from a few companies this year (and we have already seen GridSeed offering ASIC units), but so far GPUs remain dominant.

Profitability calculating is nearly impossible, because nobody can predict the future.  You can see that WafflePool averages about .01BTC/day with 1MH/s.  But this could change at any time, depending on the buyer markets, coins, etc - it could go down, or it might even go up.  For now tho, you can figure .01BTC/day per 1000KH/s is a safe average.

When buying GPUs, it's a good idea to keep re-sale in mind.  You might get slightly less $/KH value out of the top-of-line ATI GPU (say an R9 280X, 290, or 290X), but your re-sale a few months down the line is likely going to be a hell of a lot better then a 5850 or other low-end card that nobody is going to want.  The great part of GPU mining, is there is always the PC Gaming market for re-sale, whereas when you get into ASICs, once they are worthless to mine with, they are worthless period.

[tblack]

That's not necessarily true. My takings are already at 81% of my expense, and I'm only doing it for 6 weeks. I gradually built up my rigs so average is like 50% for the 6 weeks and still I'm at 81%. It could be 100% allready if not for mtgox...
So resell does not matter for me. If I don't need them anymore then I sell them at a price they buy it. It's a bonus.

[phzi]

That's not necessarily true. My takings are already at 81% of my expense, and I'm only doing it for 6 weeks. I gradually built up my rigs so average is like 50% for the 6 weeks and still I'm at 81%. It could be 100% allready if not for mtgox...
So resell does not matter for me. If I don't need them anymore then I sell them at a price they buy it. It's a bonus.

I don't see how another avenue to profit negates what I was saying.  Fact remains that a new GPU sold at say 75% of purchase price vs an older GPU sold at 25% represents a big chunk of much higher confidence ROI in a speculative market like mining.  This is specifically true when you're getting into the game this late.  Personally, I have no intention of buying more GPUs for mining - I stopped at the end of January.

Resell might not matter to you, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter... and if you're doing ROI math as precisely as you are, it makes no sense to consider equipment resale a 'bonus'.  At least that's my take.

[tblack]

Over 100% everything is a bonus. Enjoy it while I can.

If you calculate resell price to ROI it is lot quicker, that's true. But before you have the money in your wallet, you better calculate with everything you spent.

My friend built a 3 card rig that capable of 4,5MH. It was around $4000. Those 7990s won't be very popular if GPU mining goes boom. That's a really nice rig but he needs to reach $4000 to make profits. Of course if he sell them he get back some of the money, but he needs them if he wants to make money. That's why I call them bonus.

Not to mention that rig has a lot of problems... PSUs can't keep up and die, cables fry, etc...