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Author Topic: DefaultTrust changes  (Read 60570 times)
mikeywith
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June 11, 2019, 09:29:06 PM
Merited by The-One-Above-All (1)
 #1701

if you give someone negative trust for some stupid reason, you have reason to worry about them or a close friend of theirs negative-trusting you for a similarly stupid reason

That is a great theory, the main issue with the trust system is the misuse of the negative trust in general, only a handful of people stick to the proper use of it , the rest use it for everything they see fit and of course it's always "justifiable" to tag someone you don't like, there is a dozen of "reasons" for anyone to tag anyone for the sake of it.

However, this approach won't solve the problem IMO, some people will keep waiting for next month only to get their "vengeance", the best approach about this is to randomly select 5 members who "give someone negative trust for some stupid reason" and blacklist them from DT forever, then everyone will start using the trust system the way it was intended be used.

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June 11, 2019, 09:32:19 PM
 #1702

It’s going to be an absolute shit show. Scammers are going to lose their red trust rating left by legit DT1 members for a whole month. That opens the door for some pretty shitty possibilities.
This problem will remain with the current way of selecting the subset; the only way to really keep it secure with the way that it is would be by having over 50% of DT1 members tag every scammer that has been tagged so far (and I applaud anyone for their stupidity if they think this is valid way to handle it).

There’s way too many DT1 members, it needs to be cut to probably even less than 100 & I don’t even care if I’m on it or not.
I've lost oversight over DT2 members a couple rotations ago, the same is about to happen for DT1.

Maybe you should be required to have a minimum of 10 DT1 members trusting you to qualify or something.
I foresee troubles ahead.  
The current way for entry is too easy. EFS basically single-handedly introduced several random people from his section by merit gifting them over the past few months. Are any of these people trustworthy or have shown relevant, and proper judgement in trust-related matters? Nope. Not a single one.

However, this approach won't solve the problem IMO, some people will keep waiting for next month only to get their "vengeance", the best approach about this is to randomly select 5 members who "give someone negative trust for some stupid reason" and blacklist them from DT forever, then everyone will start using the trust system the way it was intended be used.
Given theymoses lack of action in many cases before (or well "lack-of-quick-action) this will never work.

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June 11, 2019, 09:36:27 PM
 #1703

It’s bull shit tbh, a few really respectable OG members dropped this time for a month, at least?
This is nothing. Wait until the list grows to over the desired 250 people (most of which will be neutral when it comes to their trustworthiness at best), and then a month comes where most old DT members don't get selected. That's then the real fun begins.

It’s going to be an absolute shit show. Scammers are going to lose their red trust rating left by legit DT1 members for a whole month. That opens the door for some pretty shitty possibilities.

There’s way too many DT1 members, it needs to be cut to probably even less than 100 & I don’t even care if I’m on it or not.

Maybe you should be required to have a minimum of 10 DT1 members trusting you to qualify or something.
I foresee troubles ahead.  

Most of the DT1 members who are not on the list this month are on DT2. So their tags will still show up with default settings. The only tags that will end up missing are those left by people who would have been DT2, but all of their sponsors are no longer on DT1.

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June 11, 2019, 09:37:54 PM
 #1704

Most of the DT1 members who are not on the list this month are on DT2. So their tags will still show up with default settings. The only tags that will end up missing are those left by people who would have been DT2, but all of their sponsor(s) is/are no longer on DT1.
This is nothing. Wait until the list grows to over the desired 250 people (most of which will be neutral when it comes to their trustworthiness at best), and then a month comes where most old DT members don't get selected. That's then the real fun begins.
It's very much possible that in such a case all the mentioned members get wiped from both levels at the same time.

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June 11, 2019, 09:50:59 PM
Merited by taikuri13 (1), mikeywith (1)
 #1705

The random monthly exclusions thing implemented by theymos sucks. It should just be the first 100 people who got included in the new DT1 system & cut it at that.

I don’t like the random in & out proposal at all.

It’s bull shit tbh, a few really respectable OG members dropped this time for a month, at least?
Not cool imo!

Not as big of a deal as it may seem. The randomly-excluded ones are still (pretty much by definition) in DT2 so their ratings are still in force. A couple of things to look out for:

1) former DT2 members who may have dropped out because their former DT1 sponsor dropped out (I mentioned this a few posts ago, still looking through the list).
2) DT1 internal vote changes.

As for the new folks in DT1... remember the Russian drama? A nothingburger as it turns out. Most Russian-speaking DT members (and there are many of them nowadays) use their DT "powers" only on the Russian boards and do it reasonably well as far as I can tell from my occasional visits there. There are lively discussions, and certain standards being developed, etc. Considering that non-Russian-speaking users couldn't do that job even if they wanted to (and nobody really wanted) it's a net-positive result to have a strong local group like that.

I have no reason to think that the Turkish board couldn't self-govern their local trust subsystem the same way.

The only tags that will end up missing are those left by people who would have been DT2, but all of their sponsors are no longer on DT1.

The answer to that is doubling up any DT2 inclusions that you consider valuable... not that different from other suggestions floated around recently, such as requiring 2+ DT1 inclusions to be eligible for DT2 to begin with.

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June 11, 2019, 09:52:43 PM
 #1706

I have no reason to think that the Turkish board couldn't self-govern their local trust subsystem the same way.
Plenty of reasons and more to come. Zero doubt in my mind.

Maybe you guys just miss the 100+ accounts I wrecked in Bitmixer. Roll Eyes

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PHI1618
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June 11, 2019, 09:55:53 PM
 #1707

We're tired of your racist behavior!
-snip-
I hope your racism, one of the biggest humanitarian problems in this world, will come to an end.
Yawn, the Ruskis are smarter than the Turkis in their DT shenanigans. You get caught red-handed, and you get excluded appropriately. Maybe you guys just miss the 100+ accounts I wrecked in Bitmixer. Roll Eyes

It doesn't matter if I'm on the DT list or not. I use the forum to exchange information. I think I'm useful to people with my hardware wallet reviews. This is enough for me.
I will always do my best to improve the Turkish board. There is no author in the world currently reviewing these 7 hardware wallets; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3162903.msg32704280#msg32704280
My purpose is to be useful to people and to learn. This will always be the case.

I don't know about Bitmixer and I don't care. I don't have time to deal with your conspiracy theories.
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June 11, 2019, 09:57:45 PM
 #1708

I have no reason to think that the Turkish board couldn't self-govern their local trust subsystem the same way.
Plenty of reasons and more to come. Zero doubt in my mind.

My point is that we can't possibly police it even if you're 100% right and if I 100% agree with you. Without speaking the language what can we do - exclude everyone who ever posted in a Turkish thread? Sounds unsustainable. Also neither you nor I are in DT1 anymore LOL.

Let them do it and gloat if they fail.

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June 11, 2019, 09:58:59 PM
 #1709

It doesn't matter if I'm on the DT list or not.
Right, yet you came in a rush in order to complain about it with a worthless blob of text. Honesty: None.

I have no reason to think that the Turkish board couldn't self-govern their local trust subsystem the same way.
Plenty of reasons and more to come. Zero doubt in my mind.
My point is that we can't possibly police it even if you're 100% right and if I 100% agree with you. Without speaking the language what can we do - exclude everyone who ever posted in a Turkish thread? Sounds unsustainable.

Let them do it and gloat if they fail.
I agree. However, excluding >95% of them (especially including the moderator) while educating the remainder seems sustainable to me (at least on DT1 level) which is what I will be doing.

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June 11, 2019, 10:01:28 PM
 #1710

I've probably missed reading how @theymos selects the "random" 100, but if he wants to make the list truly random, he should go to random.org and use their list randomiser.

https://www.random.org/lists/

It would mean a small level of manual input but would certainly level the playing field.

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June 11, 2019, 10:01:34 PM
 #1711

I agree. However, excluding >95% of them (especially including the moderator) while educating the remainder seems sustainable to me (at least on DT1 level) which is what I will be doing.

Ok, you do the stick, I'll do the carrot (if I get back to DT1) by including a couple of folks there that I can reasonably determine to be trustworthy.

I've probably missed reading how @theymos selects the "random" 100, but if he wants to make the list truly random, he should go to random.org and use their list randomiser.

https://www.random.org/lists/

It would mean a small level of manual input but would certainly level the playing field.

I'm willing to bet a limb that theymos' randomiser is sufficiently random... dude's a hardcore bitcoiner.

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June 11, 2019, 10:02:11 PM
 #1712

Given theymoses lack of action in many cases before..........

Oh noes!!!!!!!  Oh noes!!!!!!!

theymos has been cloned.    Shocked Shocked Shocked

 Cry Cry Cry

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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June 11, 2019, 10:02:53 PM
 #1713

I agree. However, excluding >95% of them (especially including the moderator) while educating the remainder seems sustainable to me (at least on DT1 level) which is what I will be doing.
Ok, you do the stick, I'll do the carrot (if I get back to DT1) by including a couple of folks there that I can reasonably determine to be trustworthy.
Sounds good... as long as you don't include the wrong folk. Cheesy I offer free trust-list fixing (no additions, only removal of existing entries) for exclusion removal; that's somewhat generous as is. Smiley

Given theymoses lack of action in many cases before..........
Oh noes!!!!!!!  Oh noes!!!!!!!

theymos has been cloned.    Shocked Shocked Shocked

 Cry Cry Cry
I took complete control over theymos about 2 years ago if that wasn't clear already. Dark arts it is.

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June 11, 2019, 10:04:13 PM
 #1714

I agree. However, excluding >95% of them (especially including the moderator) while educating the remainder seems sustainable to me (at least on DT1 level) which is what I will be doing.
Ok, you do the stick, I'll do the carrot (if I get back to DT1) by including a couple of folks there that I can reasonably determine to be trustworthy.
Sounds good... as long as you don't include the wrong folk. Cheesy I offer free trust-list fixing for exclusion removal; that's somewhat generous as is.  Smiley

I'll try to find someone with "cat" in their name, that should do it.

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June 11, 2019, 10:05:03 PM
 #1715

I agree. However, excluding >95% of them (especially including the moderator) while educating the remainder seems sustainable to me (at least on DT1 level) which is what I will be doing.
Ok, you do the stick, I'll do the carrot (if I get back to DT1) by including a couple of folks there that I can reasonably determine to be trustworthy.
Sounds good... as long as you don't include the wrong folk. Cheesy I offer free trust-list fixing for exclusion removal; that's somewhat generous as is.  Smiley
I'll try to find someone with "cat" in their name, that should do it.
It has to be the Turkish word for Cat though, otherwise I'm obviously racist. Kiss

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PHI1618
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June 11, 2019, 10:05:43 PM
 #1716

It doesn't matter if I'm on the DT list or not.
Right, yet you came in a rush in order to complain about it with a worthless blob of text. Honesty: None.


Because you listed me and a lot of Turkish user as distrusted for no reason! The only reason we speak Turkish.


Here is your list;

All DT1 members are now aware that there will be months we are excluded, and there is nothing we can do to prevent it.
A good safety-net is to follow my trust list as close as possible. New additions of the day:

Quote
~silverfuture
~kroneko
~xyz
~cygan
~2run
~by rallier
~teramit
~Buchi-88
~quasimodo
~mhanbostanci
~Halmater
~Matthias9515
~PHI1618
~sonerbo
~BitcoinTurk
~bobita
~wolwoo
~gorkem19888
~gospodin
~trendcoin
~Bthd
~ziya1453
~Kalemder
~ekiller
~AlyattesLydia
~Asber
~HARDCRACKERS
~jopen
~Leteravian
~ugurum15
~addtelegrams
~goraset

More are probably needed but the list is getting too large too fast to review everyone.


Why didn't you add Lydian and mindrust? Because they don't just write Turkish. They also write in other languages in other boards of the forum.
You have no valid reasons, and everyone sees it.
I do not want to extend this unnecessary argument any longer. After all, you answer without reading.
I wish you a good day.
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June 11, 2019, 10:08:04 PM
 #1717

I had no idea mindrust was Turkish, he’s a cool guy. I like him a lot.

@Lauda - kedi is cat in Turkish, according to google.

Lauda
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June 11, 2019, 10:10:08 PM
 #1718

Why didn't you add Lydian and mindrust? Because they don't just write Turkish. They also write in other languages in other boards of the forum.
I had no idea mindrust was Turkish, he’s a cool guy.
Neither have I, nor will I accept this information into my brain. He always was, and remains a forum user to me. Who Lydian is I have no idea yet. The rest are circle-jerking, untrustworthy baboons +- a member or two. I have, admittedly, missed out on excluding a lot more but there is only so much time to spare. I'm open to suggestions.

@Lauda - kedi is cat in Turkish, according to google.
Alright, new rule then: If you've participated in these "elections" (note: nepotism and circle-jerking), and you've never really contributed outside of your section AND your username does not contain the word 'kedi', then you're excluded. Cheesy

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PHI1618
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June 11, 2019, 10:10:28 PM
 #1719

I had no idea mindrust was Turkish, he’s a cool guy. I like him a lot.

@Lauda - kedi is cat in Turkish, according to google.
mindrust is Turkish and mindrust was selected DT1 with Turkish users support.

"kedi" is true for cat.

Have a good day.
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June 11, 2019, 10:12:53 PM
 #1720

I'm not a fun of random 100 users will be on DT1, even if the "unlucky" will be out of the DT1 the DT2 included on the DT1 inclusion list will be out of the list and some scammer will have a clean trust for an "x" amount of time.

Maybe a slightly harder requirement to be on DT1 is a good solution to reduce the list?

More merit? More people inclusion required?

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