DefaultTrust changes

[Lauda]

This election was fair and natural. You know Theymos can see all ip logs but you didn't behave fairly.

Nonsense. It is nepotism and has nothing to do with decentralization. This is the exact same response that I got the last time I took down some colluding/abusing pricks from the Turkish section. I'm just waiting for someone to play the victim/discrimination card again so that I can whoop your asses even further. Predictable and childish play; time to grow up.

2) I have been retaliatory tagged by a verified scammer a long time ago: profile.
3) The user seems to find themselves now in DT2 due to his buddies. Quite a trustworthy list indeed.

What a lie. Goraset isn't DT2 and he didn't join the election.

Goraset isn't in DT2 because I kicked him out shortly after posting about it. Your brain isn't advanced enough to keep up.

You can follow this in order to see how pawns will not behave according to your theory.

The post that I just responded to (which I also got as a PM) exactly proved my point. None of these people should be anywhere near DT.
@theymos: There also needs to be a way for the trust list of an inactive/dead account to get automatically de-activated (yet remain where it is in the very odd case that such a user does come back). Given your target numbers, both DT1 and DT2 will have many members primarily due to such accounts/old lists.

[Blacknavy]

This election was fair and natural. You know Theymos can see all ip logs but you didn't behave fairly.

Nonsense. It is nepotism and has nothing to do with decentralization. This is the exact same response that I got the last time I took down some colluding/abusing pricks from the Turkish section. I'm just waiting for someone to play the victim/discrimination card again so that I can whoop your asses even further. Predictable and childish play; time to grow up.

2) I have been retaliatory tagged by a verified scammer a long time ago: profile.
3) The user seems to find themselves now in DT2 due to his buddies. Quite a trustworthy list indeed.

What a lie. Goraset isn't DT2 and he didn't join the election.

Goraset isn't in DT2 because I kicked him out shortly after posting about it. Your brain isn't advanced enough to keep up.

You can follow this in order to see how pawns will not behave according to your theory.

The post that I just responded to (which I also got as a PM) exactly proved my point. None of these people should be anywhere near DT.
@theymos: There also needs to be a way for the trust list of an inactive/dead account to get automatically de-activated (yet remain where it is in the very odd case that such a user does come back). Given your target numbers, both DT1 and DT2 will have many members primarily due to such accounts/old lists.

Dear attention whore,

You didn't give distrust people who joined the election such as Mindrust, Vispilio and Lydian because they don't speak Turkish. You are racist and you don't have a brain.

But, you know that? We will kick your ass. Don't worry.

[Lauda]

Dear attention whore,

You didn't give distrust people who joined the election such as Mindrust, Vispilio and Lydian because they don't speak Turkish. You are racist and you don't have a brain.

But, you know that? We will kick your ass. Don't worry.

https://archive.fo/5ERsk#selection-4707.0-4707.55

You can follow this in order to see how pawns will not behave according to your theory.

This was much easier than most cases. Thanks for the threat.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Oh well, easy come, easy go.  I figured I'd get the boot from DT eventually and I have no hard feelings about it whatsoever.  Things change, and I do thank the people who had me on their trust lists (or still do).  Hopefully everything will work out A-OK from here on out.

Also I could have been lurking here since 2010 as far as you know.

Nah.  You're cryptohunter and everyone knows it--and why you're using this account now.

[Blacknavy]

Dear attention whore,

You didn't give distrust people who joined the election such as Mindrust, Vispilio and Lydian because they don't speak Turkish. You are racist and you don't have a brain.

But, you know that? We will kick your ass. Don't worry.

https://archive.fo/5ERsk#selection-4707.0-4707.55

You can follow this in order to see how pawns will not behave according to your theory.

This was much easier than most cases. Thanks for the threat.

Everyone can see what's easy. You're the only easy thing here  

[bones261]

Give us/them [i.e. cryptohunter - suchmoon's note] 1 admin power - a black list button for DT

Apologies to everyone who had this person on ignore but this gem is so brilliant that I couldn't let you miss it

       So OAA want the trust system to be centralized and have theymos delegate the responsibilities to "them?" I doubt theymos will even read enough of the post to get to that part, much less consider this. Too bad we can't test this scenario in some sort of sandbox. I'd love to see what the results would be.  

Oh well, easy come, easy go.  I figured I'd get the boot from DT eventually and I have no hard feelings about it whatsoever.  Things change, and I do thank the people who had me on their trust lists (or still do).  Hopefully everything will work out A-OK from here on out.

You are sill on DT2 though. A pretty solid DT2 as well.

[suchmoon]

Too bad we can't test this scenario in some sort of sandbox. I'd love to see what the results would be. 

http://loyce.club/trust/2019-06-08_Sat_06.22h/92110.html

You are sill on DT2 though. A pretty solid DT2 as well.

And you can't opt out of it in any feasible way even if you wanted to.

[TECSHARE]

Oh well, easy come, easy go.  I figured I'd get the boot from DT eventually and I have no hard feelings about it whatsoever.  Things change, and I do thank the people who had me on their trust lists (or still do).  Hopefully everything will work out A-OK from here on out.

This is just a result of the random selection Theymos just implemented. You will cycle back through next time.

[LoyceV]

Theymos updated DT1 today. I made a new list of DT1 and DT2 members (unfortunately, DT1 and trust scores are still based on last Saturday's Trust data dump, I will update this next Saturday).

Would this be possible:

A list of former DT2 members who are no longer in DT2 because their "sponsors" got randomly excluded from DT1 (or got banned, which seems to be the second most common cause of departure). Particularly ones that were sponsored by more than one DT1 member. There might be some good people among them who deserve to be considered by other DT1 members.

Of course it's possible But I didn't keep records of DT2-members. I'll move your suggestion to Vod's "Realish" time DT1 Change Log.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Oh well, easy come, easy go.  I figured I'd get the boot from DT eventually and I have no hard feelings about it whatsoever.  Things change, and I do thank the people who had me on their trust lists (or still do).  Hopefully everything will work out A-OK from here on out.

This is just a result of the random selection Theymos just implemented. You will cycle back through next time.

A'ight, appreciate the answer.  

I just checked Vod's BPIP 'real-time' DT1 thing, and it says I no longer trust a bunch of people that I still trust, and I have not modified my trust list except to put Yahoo62278 back on it just now.  What in the world is going on?  The world on its ear just pivoted to the other ear and I am the one left with an aching head.  No one else seems affected.

Edit:

It shows DT1-to-DT1 events and since you're no longer in DT1 it thinks you dropped everyone. Vod's working on a fix.

*Whew*

So no need for another MRI of my noodle.  The referring physician of my last one had breath that reeked of hexane and spoiled poon-Tang, though the radiology department was soothing while I was strapped in the tube.  There is nothing wrong with me.  It's all of YOU!

[suchmoon]

I just checked Vod's BPIP 'real-time' DT1 thing, and it says I no longer trust a bunch of people that I still trust, and I have not modified my trust list except to put Yahoo62278 back on it just now.  What in the world is going on?  The world on its ear just pivoted to the other ear and I am the one left with an aching head.  No one else seems affected.

It shows DT1-to-DT1 events and since you're no longer in DT1 it thinks you dropped everyone. Vod's working on a fix.

[PHI1618]

All DT1 members are now aware that there will be months we are excluded, and there is nothing we can do to prevent it.

A good safety-net is to follow my trust list as close as possible. New additions of the day:

~silverfuture
~kroneko
~xyz
~cygan
~2run
~by rallier
~teramit
~Buchi-88
~quasimodo
~mhanbostanci
~Halmater
~Matthias9515
~PHI1618
~sonerbo
~BitcoinTurk
~bobita
~wolwoo
~gorkem19888
~gospodin
~trendcoin
~Bthd
~ziya1453
~Kalemder
~ekiller
~AlyattesLydia
~Asber
~HARDCRACKERS
~jopen
~Leteravian
~ugurum15
~addtelegrams
~goraset

More are probably needed but the list is getting too large too fast to review everyone.

Dear Lauda;
Do you know me? Have you read my messages before? Have we had a long conversation with you before? Have you ever heard of me before?
These questions apply to all members of your distrust.
I think your answer is "no"

But you still don't trust people you don't know by seeing yourself as the security guard of this forum. Adding people you don't know and never see to your distrust list for no reason is nonsense.

The Turkish section needed a DT member. Since the members in the Turkish board did not know the use of the "trust system" very well, Matthias guided them. And theymos have identified a few DT members from our department. If the use of the turst system had been known, the DT members would have already emerged from Turkish board. Matthias has just accomplished what it should be.

But despite all this, you found people to be unreliable because they were only Turkish with all your recklessness. I don't think this is a realistic explanation of what you're doing. We're tired of your racist behavior!
The Turkish section is one of the largest local sections of this forum. And you can't stop it. I hope your racism, one of the biggest humanitarian problems in this world, will come to an end.




By the way, as theymos mentioned, I find you unreliable too and add you to my distrust list.
I'm not a belligerent or vindictive person. I prefer to act with logic. But your irrationality required it. I'm sorry for this.

I was always intending to choose a random subset of 100 once more than 100 became eligible. This creates more people who have a credible threat of retaliation: if you give someone negative trust for some stupid reason, you have reason to worry about them or a close friend of theirs negative-trusting you for a similarly stupid reason, if not in this month, then in a future month. I think that it pushes people (without forcing people) toward acting in-line with consensus, so that any retaliation against your sent negative trust always gets the sender excluded definitively.

Next month, maybe I'm off the DT list. Maybe you'il be a DT member again. These are things that can always change.
I hope you get rid of this dangerous mindset. I'm just a member who tries to improve the Turkish board I write. I'm so simple like this.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

The random monthly exclusions thing implemented by theymos sucks. It should just be the first 100 people who got included in the new DT1 system & cut it at that.

I don’t like the random in & out proposal at all.

It’s bull shit tbh, a few really respectable OG members dropped this time for a month, at least?
Not cool imo!

[Lauda]

We're tired of your racist behavior!
-snip-
I hope your racism, one of the biggest humanitarian problems in this world, will come to an end.

Yawn, the Ruskis are smarter than the Turkis in their DT shenanigans. You get caught red-handed, and you get excluded appropriately. Maybe you guys just miss the 100+ accounts I wrecked in Bitmixer.

I'm just waiting for someone to play the victim/discrimination card again so that I can whoop your asses even further. Predictable and childish play; time to grow up.

The post is more boring than I thought.

It’s bull shit tbh, a few really respectable OG members dropped this time for a month, at least?

This is nothing. Wait until the list grows to over the desired 250 people (most of which will be neutral at best when it comes to their trustworthiness), and then a month comes where most old DT members don't get selected. That's when the real fun begins.
Side note:
It seems that a lot of members think that:
a) being a forum moderator, and/or
b) being a merit source,
warrants someone being in their trust list. This is very wrong.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

It’s bull shit tbh, a few really respectable OG members dropped this time for a month, at least?

This is nothing. Wait until the list grows to over the desired 250 people (most of which will be neutral when it comes to their trustworthiness at best), and then a month comes where most old DT members don't get selected. That's then the real fun begins.

It’s going to be an absolute shit show. Scammers are going to lose their red trust rating left by legit DT1 members for a whole month. That opens the door for some pretty shitty possibilities.

There’s way too many DT1 members, it needs to be cut to probably even less than 100 & I don’t even care if I’m on it or not.

Maybe you should be required to have a minimum of 10 DT1 members trusting you to qualify or something.
I foresee troubles ahead. 

[mikeywith]

if you give someone negative trust for some stupid reason, you have reason to worry about them or a close friend of theirs negative-trusting you for a similarly stupid reason

That is a great theory, the main issue with the trust system is the misuse of the negative trust in general, only a handful of people stick to the proper use of it , the rest use it for everything they see fit and of course it's always "justifiable" to tag someone you don't like, there is a dozen of "reasons" for anyone to tag anyone for the sake of it.

However, this approach won't solve the problem IMO, some people will keep waiting for next month only to get their "vengeance", the best approach about this is to randomly select 5 members who "give someone negative trust for some stupid reason" and blacklist them from DT forever, then everyone will start using the trust system the way it was intended be used.

[Lauda]

It’s going to be an absolute shit show. Scammers are going to lose their red trust rating left by legit DT1 members for a whole month. That opens the door for some pretty shitty possibilities.

This problem will remain with the current way of selecting the subset; the only way to really keep it secure with the way that it is would be by having over 50% of DT1 members tag every scammer that has been tagged so far (and I applaud anyone for their stupidity if they think this is valid way to handle it).

There’s way too many DT1 members, it needs to be cut to probably even less than 100 & I don’t even care if I’m on it or not.

I've lost oversight over DT2 members a couple rotations ago, the same is about to happen for DT1.

Maybe you should be required to have a minimum of 10 DT1 members trusting you to qualify or something.
I foresee troubles ahead.  

The current way for entry is too easy. EFS basically single-handedly introduced several random people from his section by merit gifting them over the past few months. Are any of these people trustworthy or have shown relevant, and proper judgement in trust-related matters? Nope. Not a single one.

However, this approach won't solve the problem IMO, some people will keep waiting for next month only to get their "vengeance", the best approach about this is to randomly select 5 members who "give someone negative trust for some stupid reason" and blacklist them from DT forever, then everyone will start using the trust system the way it was intended be used.

Given theymoses lack of action in many cases before (or well "lack-of-quick-action) this will never work.

[bones261]

It’s bull shit tbh, a few really respectable OG members dropped this time for a month, at least?

This is nothing. Wait until the list grows to over the desired 250 people (most of which will be neutral when it comes to their trustworthiness at best), and then a month comes where most old DT members don't get selected. That's then the real fun begins.

It’s going to be an absolute shit show. Scammers are going to lose their red trust rating left by legit DT1 members for a whole month. That opens the door for some pretty shitty possibilities.

There’s way too many DT1 members, it needs to be cut to probably even less than 100 & I don’t even care if I’m on it or not.

Maybe you should be required to have a minimum of 10 DT1 members trusting you to qualify or something.
I foresee troubles ahead.  

Most of the DT1 members who are not on the list this month are on DT2. So their tags will still show up with default settings. The only tags that will end up missing are those left by people who would have been DT2, but all of their sponsors are no longer on DT1.

[Lauda]

Most of the DT1 members who are not on the list this month are on DT2. So their tags will still show up with default settings. The only tags that will end up missing are those left by people who would have been DT2, but all of their sponsor(s) is/are no longer on DT1.

This is nothing. Wait until the list grows to over the desired 250 people (most of which will be neutral when it comes to their trustworthiness at best), and then a month comes where most old DT members don't get selected. That's then the real fun begins.

It's very much possible that in such a case all the mentioned members get wiped from both levels at the same time.

[suchmoon]

The random monthly exclusions thing implemented by theymos sucks. It should just be the first 100 people who got included in the new DT1 system & cut it at that.

I don’t like the random in & out proposal at all.

It’s bull shit tbh, a few really respectable OG members dropped this time for a month, at least?
Not cool imo!

Not as big of a deal as it may seem. The randomly-excluded ones are still (pretty much by definition) in DT2 so their ratings are still in force. A couple of things to look out for:

1) former DT2 members who may have dropped out because their former DT1 sponsor dropped out (I mentioned this a few posts ago, still looking through the list).
2) DT1 internal vote changes.

As for the new folks in DT1... remember the Russian drama? A nothingburger as it turns out. Most Russian-speaking DT members (and there are many of them nowadays) use their DT "powers" only on the Russian boards and do it reasonably well as far as I can tell from my occasional visits there. There are lively discussions, and certain standards being developed, etc. Considering that non-Russian-speaking users couldn't do that job even if they wanted to (and nobody really wanted) it's a net-positive result to have a strong local group like that.

I have no reason to think that the Turkish board couldn't self-govern their local trust subsystem the same way.

The only tags that will end up missing are those left by people who would have been DT2, but all of their sponsors are no longer on DT1.

The answer to that is doubling up any DT2 inclusions that you consider valuable... not that different from other suggestions floated around recently, such as requiring 2+ DT1 inclusions to be eligible for DT2 to begin with.