Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[BADecker]

^^^ So then, the question is, why are the US and Nato backing off on their help for Ukraine? Are they running out of material and money to send? Are the people of those countries getting fed up with helping Ukraine? Or do they think that Ukraine doesn't need much if any more help?

I think the training of Ukrainian solders to fight like the West does, is simply the departing send-off. The West is done with Ukraine. She's on her own... or very shortly will be.

The spring offensive by Russia talked about in the article, might be the thing that will destroy Ukraine if the West's last boost doesn't work.


Russian Diplomats Issue Dire Warnings that War with US Is Close


https://libertarianinstitute.org/news/russian-diplomats-issue-dire-warnings-that-war-with-us-is-close/
Meanwhile, Moscow's UN envoy declared that all of Russia's "red lines" have already been crossed.

Addressing lawmakers at Russia's State Duma on Wednesday, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov outlined the causes of the current conflict in Ukraine and the deterioration of US-Russia relations, saying Washington has a "maniacal desire to revive the neo-colonial unipolar world order."

"An integral part of this policy is the long-term containment of Russia, including through the expansion of NATO towards our borders, as well as the transformation of fraternal Ukraine into a Russophobic military stronghold," he said. "In recent years, this line of Washington and its European satellites has reached the point of no return."

After the fall of the Soviet Union, Washington and several other Western states gave assurances to Moscow that the NATO alliance would not expand beyond Germany. However, in the years since, Presidents Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump have each allowed new members to join the alliance, all of them inching closer to Russia's borders.
...

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[OgNasty]

Biden has come out and said that the American taxpayer is now going to provide social support for Ukraine so that their people can have some “pocket money” for spending. This is absolutely insane. American taxpayers are already carrying a debt of a quarter million dollars per person for their share and now have to support Ukrainians? Absolutely insane. Not a penny more for Ukraine. Let this war end for the sake of everyone involved.

[BADecker]

^^^ They already got paid.

Debt is what the people and government owe to:
1. The Federal Reserve Bank;
1. Companies and Corporations;
3. Foreign governments.

In every case, the debt is secured by a promissory note of some kind... or maybe a bond.

Promissory notes and bonds are negotiable instruments, like checks and money orders. The debt was essentially prepaid by the promissory note before the money was loaned.

This shows that the prepayment was actually a creation of new money. More money in the system means more inflation. Inflation is absorbed by the people... a hardship on their lives.

There is no debt.

[af_newbie]

Biden has come out and said that the American taxpayer is now going to provide social support for Ukraine so that their people can have some “pocket money” for spending. This is absolutely insane. American taxpayers are already carrying a debt of a quarter million dollars per person for their share and now have to support Ukrainians? Absolutely insane. Not a penny more for Ukraine. Let this war end for the sake of everyone involved.

You are probably referring to humanitarian aid.

This war would have ended in March of last year if NATO would establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine's territory (Donbas and Crimea)
and install modern air defense systems everywhere.

Instead, billions are spent to continue to bleed Russia and rebuild Ukraine.

A few decisive NATO strikes on Russia's logistics infrastructure would help Ukraine in pushing Russia back to the 2013 borders.

Sooner rather than later we will be providing ALL NATO military weapons and personnel to crush this Rashist evil.

PS. It seems that the goal now is to break up the Russian Federation (which is not really Russian and is not a Federation) by systematically
destroying its economy, military, demographic potential, and resource extraction capabilities.

PPS. Instead, we will turn this autocratic Russia into a Soviet gulag, then it will take decades to crush that monster economically.

[paxmao]

Biden has come out and said that the American taxpayer is now going to provide social support for Ukraine so that their people can have some “pocket money” for spending. This is absolutely insane. American taxpayers are already carrying a debt of a quarter million dollars per person for their share and now have to support Ukrainians? Absolutely insane. Not a penny more for Ukraine. Let this war end for the sake of everyone involved.

It is far more expensive to have an aggressive and triumphant RF army at the gates of central Europe. Putin has already threatened Moldavia. His Psychos will not stop in the Donbas. The US has fewer allies in the world than ever.

Bottom-line for you convenience and easy understanding: If you do not like footing this bill, prepare for what will come if you fail to stop the RF.

@BA - Ukraine allies are not backing off, they are sending MBTs. Please, please, please, read proper news from time to time.

...

This war would have ended in March of last year if NATO would establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine's territory (Donbas and Crimea)
and install modern air defense systems everywhere.

Instead, billions are spent to continue to bleed Russia and rebuild Ukraine.

A few decisive NATO strikes on Russia's logistics infrastructure would help Ukraine in pushing Russia back to the 2013 borders.
...

No, that gets you WW III and likely nuclear strikes. Simple yet wrong solutions to complex problems lead to world-life changing mistakes.

For clarity, a no-fly zone implies NATO aircraft shooting down RF planes. That is an act of war.

[af_newbie]

Biden has come out and said that the American taxpayer is now going to provide social support for Ukraine so that their people can have some “pocket money” for spending. This is absolutely insane. American taxpayers are already carrying a debt of a quarter million dollars per person for their share and now have to support Ukrainians? Absolutely insane. Not a penny more for Ukraine. Let this war end for the sake of everyone involved.

It is far more expensive to have an aggressive and triumphant RF army at the gates of central Europe. Putin has already threatened Moldavia. His Psychos will not stop in the Donbas. The US has fewer allies in the world than ever.

Bottom-line for you convenience and easy understanding: If you do not like footing this bill, prepare for what will come if you fail to stop the RF.

@BA - Ukraine allies are not backing off, they are sending MBTs. Please, please, please, read proper news from time to time.

...

This war would have ended in March of last year if NATO would establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine's territory (Donbas and Crimea)
and install modern air defense systems everywhere.

Instead, billions are spent to continue to bleed Russia and rebuild Ukraine.

A few decisive NATO strikes on Russia's logistics infrastructure would help Ukraine in pushing Russia back to the 2013 borders.
...

No, that gets you WW III and likely nuclear strikes. Simple yet wrong solutions to complex problems lead to world-life changing mistakes.

For clarity, a no-fly zone implies NATO aircraft shooting down RF planes. That is an act of war.

Not reacting militarily to the RF annexation of Crimea, and now, the full-scale invasion is just kicking the can down the road, at the cost of the lives of innocent civilians.

RF needs to be demilitarized from nuclear weapons. Any other solution will bring another war in the future.

Even if Ukraine kicks the Russian forces to the pre-2014 border, Putin (or his successor) will re-arm and attack Ukraine again.
Why do you think he 'incorporated' four Ukrainian oblasts into RF? So that he will have the pretext to attack again.

Even if Russia conquers parts or the whole of Ukraine, what do you think will happen next? Russia will go after the Baltic countries
to establish the land bridge to Kaliningrad, or will 'recover' the Caucasian Soviet republics to establish a land bridge to Turkey and Iran.

The threat of a nuclear war will remain for as long as imperial Russia exists.

NATO will be threatened with nuclear war if they respond to any of the above annexations.

Not reacting to Russia's aspirations in Ukraine will give them a carte blanche to annex whatever the Soviets lost in 1991.

Read Hitler's Mein Kampf and Putin's/Dugin's papers. Putin and his acolytes will not stop. They must be stopped.

[TwitchySeal]

Biden has come out and said that the American taxpayer is now going to provide social support for Ukraine so that their people can have some “pocket money” for spending. This is absolutely insane. American taxpayers are already carrying a debt of a quarter million dollars per person for their share and now have to support Ukrainians? Absolutely insane. Not a penny more for Ukraine. Let this war end for the sake of everyone involved.

It's like you listen to a few minutes of talk radio every once in a while and then regurgitate what you can remember here when your weekly post count is low but don't actually have any idea what you're talking about.

[nutildah]

Let this war end for the sake of everyone involved.

I agree, Putin should end the invasion. He can pull out now, declare Russia victorious in their "special operation," and the people who want to believe him can cheer with him.

It's like you listen to a few minutes of talk radio every once in a while and then regurgitate what you can remember here when your weekly post count is low but don't actually have any idea what you're talking about.

I think it's good if he's doing it for post count purposes as at least that's a reason.

Imagine regurgitating rightwing and/or Russian propaganda without getting paid for it.

[tvbcof]

...
Imagine regurgitating rightwing and/or Russian propaganda without getting paid for it.

"rightwing and/or Russian propaganda" == literally anything the current 'woke' retards have not been programmed to believe is 'the way(tm)'.  And pretty much everything they have not been instructed on at all.

Notice that any independent thoughts or synthesis is automatically labeled 'conspiracy theory' by the woke-tards unless it unambiguously helps one of their 'latest things' (Soros, Zelenski, Fauci, Biden, Gates, Cuomo (until recently), Pfizer, Lockheed-Martin, etc.) or hurts a perceived enemy (e.g., Trump.)  In the latter case it is stone cold proven fact to them.  It's amazing to see them work tirelessly for Blackrock even as they rarely even know what it is.  It's occurring to me that that ignorant support phenomenon has probably been the norm in most fascist dictatorships.

Thankfully these clowns almost to a person got at least their first set of de-pop shots as instructed, and most of the time the boosters as well unless the first blast killed them.  And they will certainly be dosing up on the 'new flu' mRNA shots as well.  That means we thinking people (a lot of us old-school left-wingers included) won't have to suffer their idiocy for to much longer.

[Betwrong]

~ Any real evidence of that, or is it just what you want to believe?

People of the civilized world will not stop supporting Ukraine until the last Russian soldier leaves the occupied areas(Crimea included), because what Putin's regime did was a brutal attack on civilized world, which Russia itself used to be a part of not that long ago. And if such thing goes unpunished, then other barbarians might start thinking they could try to do the same.

This isn't the first that I have seen. However, it's possibly the first formal move I have seen in Congress. I have posted a few other posts that suggest the same thing in other ways.

Congressman Matt Gaetz and 10 others are making this formal. Nobody knows how much success they will have. Watch the video of Gaetz on the House floor at the site.
~

"A member of the Republican Party, he is widely regarded as a staunch proponent of far-right politics as well as an ally of former president Donald Trump."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Gaetz

And why I'm not surprised? These guys from the Republican Party will not stop at anything just to get a chance to get back to the power. Not all of them, of course, are like that. Fortunately, there are some sane people among their ranks, who understand that there can be more important things in this world than fighting for power.

[BADecker]

Let this war end for the sake of everyone involved.

I agree, Putin should end the invasion. He can pull out now, declare Russia victorious in their "special operation," and the people who want to believe him can cheer with him.

This is a war between the US and Russia. Ukraine is a pawn of the US, as is much of Nato. A Russian victory declaration would be a lie that would be detrimental to Russia, except if the US pulled out.

It's like you listen to a few minutes of talk radio every once in a while and then regurgitate what you can remember here when your weekly post count is low but don't actually have any idea what you're talking about.

I think it's good if he's doing it for post count purposes as at least that's a reason.

Imagine regurgitating rightwing and/or Russian propaganda without getting paid for it.

Either you copied what TwitchySeal is talking about, or you are simply against Russia. If the US and Nato hadn't been supporting Ukraine in many big ways, the war would have literally been over almost before it started.

[og kush420]

...
Imagine regurgitating rightwing and/or Russian propaganda without getting paid for it.

"rightwing and/or Russian propaganda" == literally anything the current 'woke' retards have not been programmed to believe is 'the way(tm)'.  And pretty much everything they have not been instructed on at all.

Notice that any independent thoughts or synthesis is automatically labeled 'conspiracy theory' by the woke-tards unless it unambiguously helps one of their 'latest things' (Soros, Zelenski, Fauci, Biden, Gates, Cuomo (until recently), Pfizer, Lockheed-Martin, etc.) or hurts a perceived enemy (e.g., Trump.)  In the latter case it is stone cold proven fact to them.  It's amazing to see them work tirelessly for Blackrock even as they rarely even know what it is.  It's occurring to me that that ignorant support phenomenon has probably been the norm in most fascist dictatorships.

Thankfully these clowns almost to a person got at least their first set of de-pop shots as instructed, and most of the time the boosters as well unless the first blast killed them.  And they will certainly be dosing up on the 'new flu' mRNA shots as well.  That means we thinking people (a lot of us old-school left-wingers included) won't have to suffer their idiocy for to much longer.

US has now warned China for helping Russia.
There are so many superpowers involved in this invasion and the real purpose is unknown what they are looking for and what they want.

[BADecker]

~ Any real evidence of that, or is it just what you want to believe?

People of the civilized world will not stop supporting Ukraine until the last Russian soldier leaves the occupied areas(Crimea included), because what Putin's regime did was a brutal attack on civilized world, which Russia itself used to be a part of not that long ago. And if such thing goes unpunished, then other barbarians might start thinking they could try to do the same.

This isn't the first that I have seen. However, it's possibly the first formal move I have seen in Congress. I have posted a few other posts that suggest the same thing in other ways.

Congressman Matt Gaetz and 10 others are making this formal. Nobody knows how much success they will have. Watch the video of Gaetz on the House floor at the site.
~

"A member of the Republican Party, he is widely regarded as a staunch proponent of far-right politics as well as an ally of former president Donald Trump."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Gaetz

And why I'm not surprised? These guys from the Republican Party will not stop at anything just to get a chance to get back to the power. Not all of them, of course, are like that. Fortunately, there are some sane people among their ranks, who understand that there can be more important things in this world than fighting for power.

If you take a quick look into it, you will see that it is still the Democrat Party that is wielding the power to a great extent. That means that it was the Democrat Party that actually didn't stop at anything to get into power, even though the Republican Party may have had such thoughts. The last several decades of election process corruption is something that Republicans barely step low enough to do, but democrats eat it up like pie.

[paxmao]

Biden has come out and said that the American taxpayer is now going to provide social support for Ukraine so that their people can have some “pocket money” for spending. This is absolutely insane. American taxpayers are already carrying a debt of a quarter million dollars per person for their share and now have to support Ukrainians? Absolutely insane. Not a penny more for Ukraine. Let this war end for the sake of everyone involved.

It is far more expensive to have an aggressive and triumphant RF army at the gates of central Europe. Putin has already threatened Moldavia. His Psychos will not stop in the Donbas. The US has fewer allies in the world than ever.

Bottom-line for you convenience and easy understanding: If you do not like footing this bill, prepare for what will come if you fail to stop the RF.

@BA - Ukraine allies are not backing off, they are sending MBTs. Please, please, please, read proper news from time to time.

...

This war would have ended in March of last year if NATO would establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine's territory (Donbas and Crimea)
and install modern air defense systems everywhere.

Instead, billions are spent to continue to bleed Russia and rebuild Ukraine.

A few decisive NATO strikes on Russia's logistics infrastructure would help Ukraine in pushing Russia back to the 2013 borders.
...

No, that gets you WW III and likely nuclear strikes. Simple yet wrong solutions to complex problems lead to world-life changing mistakes.

For clarity, a no-fly zone implies NATO aircraft shooting down RF planes. That is an act of war.

Not reacting militarily to the RF annexation of Crimea, and now, the full-scale invasion is just kicking the can down the road, at the cost of the lives of innocent civilians.

RF needs to be demilitarized from nuclear weapons. Any other solution will bring another war in the future.

Even if Ukraine kicks the Russian forces to the pre-2014 border, Putin (or his successor) will re-arm and attack Ukraine again.
Why do you think he 'incorporated' four Ukrainian oblasts into RF? So that he will have the pretext to attack again.

Even if Russia conquers parts or the whole of Ukraine, what do you think will happen next? Russia will go after the Baltic countries
to establish the land bridge to Kaliningrad, or will 'recover' the Caucasian Soviet republics to establish a land bridge to Turkey and Iran.

The threat of a nuclear war will remain for as long as imperial Russia exists.

NATO will be threatened with nuclear war if they respond to any of the above annexations.

Not reacting to Russia's aspirations in Ukraine will give them a carte blanche to annex whatever the Soviets lost in 1991.

Read Hitler's Mein Kampf and Putin's/Dugin's papers. Putin and his acolytes will not stop. They must be stopped.

There does not seem to be a path to denuclearize the RF nor to convert it to a non-despotic regime. A no-fly zone does not achieve that objective. An attack to the RF territory (the original borders of course) is likely to achieve a gigantic escalation. For now, demonstrating that attacking other countries is expensive and does not pay (and may even cost Putin the government) is the way to have a future pacific behaviour.

Too expensive, to useless, to difficult, illogical, dangerous and risky - those are the words that must come to the RF Psychos mind when they think ever again of waging aggression in Europe. An that state of mind has to be achieved by demonstrating that RF is no longer a world power (in military terms that has been achieved) and that there is an economic and political price that is too high to consider in the future.

[BADecker]

^^^ That's exactly the thing that is happening to the US and Nato rather than Russia, right now - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5421367.msg61788624#msg61788624.

[af_newbie]

Biden has come out and said that the American taxpayer is now going to provide social support for Ukraine so that their people can have some “pocket money” for spending. This is absolutely insane. American taxpayers are already carrying a debt of a quarter million dollars per person for their share and now have to support Ukrainians? Absolutely insane. Not a penny more for Ukraine. Let this war end for the sake of everyone involved.

It is far more expensive to have an aggressive and triumphant RF army at the gates of central Europe. Putin has already threatened Moldavia. His Psychos will not stop in the Donbas. The US has fewer allies in the world than ever.

Bottom-line for you convenience and easy understanding: If you do not like footing this bill, prepare for what will come if you fail to stop the RF.

@BA - Ukraine allies are not backing off, they are sending MBTs. Please, please, please, read proper news from time to time.

...

This war would have ended in March of last year if NATO would establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine's territory (Donbas and Crimea)
and install modern air defense systems everywhere.

Instead, billions are spent to continue to bleed Russia and rebuild Ukraine.

A few decisive NATO strikes on Russia's logistics infrastructure would help Ukraine in pushing Russia back to the 2013 borders.
...

No, that gets you WW III and likely nuclear strikes. Simple yet wrong solutions to complex problems lead to world-life changing mistakes.

For clarity, a no-fly zone implies NATO aircraft shooting down RF planes. That is an act of war.

Not reacting militarily to the RF annexation of Crimea, and now, the full-scale invasion is just kicking the can down the road, at the cost of the lives of innocent civilians.

RF needs to be demilitarized from nuclear weapons. Any other solution will bring another war in the future.

Even if Ukraine kicks the Russian forces to the pre-2014 border, Putin (or his successor) will re-arm and attack Ukraine again.
Why do you think he 'incorporated' four Ukrainian oblasts into RF? So that he will have the pretext to attack again.

Even if Russia conquers parts or the whole of Ukraine, what do you think will happen next? Russia will go after the Baltic countries
to establish the land bridge to Kaliningrad, or will 'recover' the Caucasian Soviet republics to establish a land bridge to Turkey and Iran.

The threat of a nuclear war will remain for as long as imperial Russia exists.

NATO will be threatened with nuclear war if they respond to any of the above annexations.

Not reacting to Russia's aspirations in Ukraine will give them a carte blanche to annex whatever the Soviets lost in 1991.

Read Hitler's Mein Kampf and Putin's/Dugin's papers. Putin and his acolytes will not stop. They must be stopped.

There does not seem to be a path to denuclearize the RF nor to convert it to a non-despotic regime. A no-fly zone does not achieve that objective. An attack to the RF territory (the original borders of course) is likely to achieve a gigantic escalation. For now, demonstrating that attacking other countries is expensive and does not pay (and may even cost Putin the government) is the way to have a future pacific behaviour.

Too expensive, to useless, to difficult, illogical, dangerous and risky - those are the words that must come to the RF Psychos mind when they think ever again of waging aggression in Europe. An that state of mind has to be achieved by demonstrating that RF is no longer a world power (in military terms that has been achieved) and that there is an economic and political price that is too high to consider in the future.

"Dangerous and risky" is probably our best bet.

Putin does not care how expensive or difficult his goals are.

He only understands strength and power. So until he sees it from the West, he will not back down.

Regardless of the economic and political implications.

All the talk about delivering tanks in 6 months, or maybe Mig-29s (who knows when) is just music to his ears. It is a clear "go ahead" for him.

The actions of the West must be decisive and quick. And they should not be announced anywhere, but visible on the front lines.

NATO should be shooting down ALL Russian planes crossing into Ukraine/Donbas/Crimea and eliminating the Russian fleet in the Black Sea.
All without saying a word about it. If asked, well, we are investigating, blah, blah, we'll get back to you in 3 months (or when we are done).

Otherwise, this conflict will spill over to the rest of Europe, Asia, and the rest of the world.

[tvbcof]

...
NATO should be shooting down ALL Russian planes crossing into Ukraine/Donbas/Crimea and eliminating the Russian fleet in the Black Sea.
All without saying a word about it. If asked, well, we are investigating, blah, blah, we'll get back to you in 3 months (or when we are done).

I think that most normally wired people tend to trust and respect people who do what they say and say what they do , and don't those who weasel around doing sneaky creepy things which harm others.  That's probably why Russia is gaining worldwide respect and the 'collective West' is losing it.

It is amazing to see how some cultures are so proud of things like using other third-party aircraft to hide behind when they do stand-off missile attacks, then are so pleased about how clever they are.  As if you need special 'chosen' brain-power to think up the strategy of using innocent third-parties as human shields.  Disgusting, and especially so because it only works when the adversary is somewhat ethical and resistant to harming said third-parties.

Sadly for the 'collective West' and the U.S. in particular, they are currently led/controlled/owned by people who have the sneaky-creepy mentality.  It makes us all look bad, makes it a lot harder to negotiate since it's pointless to make agreements with liars, and puts us all in danger.  It takes a long time to build a reputation as a straight-shooter and only a short time to lose it.

If I were a Russian, I would be pleased with Putin for at least developing Russia's reputation no matter what I thought of his politics.  I am an American, and I've been so disappointed by the reputation we've developed that I left the place.  At least that was one of the reasons.

Otherwise, this conflict will spill over to the rest of Europe, Asia, and the rest of the world.

Sneaky surprise attacks and denials against adversaries using hidden proxy forces pretty much guarantee an increased rate of 'spillover' as Russia, Iran, Germany(!) etc are unlikely to tolerated them indefinitely, but spillover and conflagration seem to be exactly what those who've attained power to call the shots in the West badly want/need.

This desperation on the part of the West for a response is probably why the strategists on the Russian side (and others) are biding their time.  Don't give the enemy exactly what they are in need of at the moment; do it at a latter date when retribution is not useful to them.  But do log the entry in a ledger.

Time is on the side of the Russian axis, and a large part of the reason why has to do with they being trustworthy partners with which to form an alliance.

[paxmao]

Biden has come out and said that the American taxpayer is now going to provide social support for Ukraine so that their people can have some “pocket money” for spending. This is absolutely insane. American taxpayers are already carrying a debt of a quarter million dollars per person for their share and now have to support Ukrainians? Absolutely insane. Not a penny more for Ukraine. Let this war end for the sake of everyone involved.

It is far more expensive to have an aggressive and triumphant RF army at the gates of central Europe. Putin has already threatened Moldavia. His Psychos will not stop in the Donbas. The US has fewer allies in the world than ever.

Bottom-line for you convenience and easy understanding: If you do not like footing this bill, prepare for what will come if you fail to stop the RF.

@BA - Ukraine allies are not backing off, they are sending MBTs. Please, please, please, read proper news from time to time.

...

This war would have ended in March of last year if NATO would establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine's territory (Donbas and Crimea)
and install modern air defense systems everywhere.

Instead, billions are spent to continue to bleed Russia and rebuild Ukraine.

A few decisive NATO strikes on Russia's logistics infrastructure would help Ukraine in pushing Russia back to the 2013 borders.
...

No, that gets you WW III and likely nuclear strikes. Simple yet wrong solutions to complex problems lead to world-life changing mistakes.

For clarity, a no-fly zone implies NATO aircraft shooting down RF planes. That is an act of war.

Not reacting militarily to the RF annexation of Crimea, and now, the full-scale invasion is just kicking the can down the road, at the cost of the lives of innocent civilians.

RF needs to be demilitarized from nuclear weapons. Any other solution will bring another war in the future.

Even if Ukraine kicks the Russian forces to the pre-2014 border, Putin (or his successor) will re-arm and attack Ukraine again.
Why do you think he 'incorporated' four Ukrainian oblasts into RF? So that he will have the pretext to attack again.

Even if Russia conquers parts or the whole of Ukraine, what do you think will happen next? Russia will go after the Baltic countries
to establish the land bridge to Kaliningrad, or will 'recover' the Caucasian Soviet republics to establish a land bridge to Turkey and Iran.

The threat of a nuclear war will remain for as long as imperial Russia exists.

NATO will be threatened with nuclear war if they respond to any of the above annexations.

Not reacting to Russia's aspirations in Ukraine will give them a carte blanche to annex whatever the Soviets lost in 1991.

Read Hitler's Mein Kampf and Putin's/Dugin's papers. Putin and his acolytes will not stop. They must be stopped.

There does not seem to be a path to denuclearize the RF nor to convert it to a non-despotic regime. A no-fly zone does not achieve that objective. An attack to the RF territory (the original borders of course) is likely to achieve a gigantic escalation. For now, demonstrating that attacking other countries is expensive and does not pay (and may even cost Putin the government) is the way to have a future pacific behaviour.

Too expensive, to useless, to difficult, illogical, dangerous and risky - those are the words that must come to the RF Psychos mind when they think ever again of waging aggression in Europe. An that state of mind has to be achieved by demonstrating that RF is no longer a world power (in military terms that has been achieved) and that there is an economic and political price that is too high to consider in the future.

"Dangerous and risky" is probably our best bet.

Putin does not care how expensive or difficult his goals are.

He only understands strength and power. So until he sees it from the West, he will not back down.

Regardless of the economic and political implications.

All the talk about delivering tanks in 6 months, or maybe Mig-29s (who knows when) is just music to his ears. It is a clear "go ahead" for him.

The actions of the West must be decisive and quick. And they should not be announced anywhere, but visible on the front lines.

NATO should be shooting down ALL Russian planes crossing into Ukraine/Donbas/Crimea and eliminating the Russian fleet in the Black Sea.
All without saying a word about it. If asked, well, we are investigating, blah, blah, we'll get back to you in 3 months (or when we are done).

Otherwise, this conflict will spill over to the rest of Europe, Asia, and the rest of the world.

Agree on the basis, but bear in mind that "too risky and too dangerous" for Putin does not mean that too many of the soldiers may die or too much war material can be lost.  It means "too much risk of loosing power" and too "dangerous for himself". Killing soldiers in the field is (unfortunately) just part of the equation.

Putin is not immune to the "too expensive" and "not worth it" arguments. Apart from his personal ego, war is expensive and most countries (since the Romans and before) do war if is either: a) Required for survival (like Ukraine & the supporting countries) b) Profitable (easy targets, high income) c) Strategically interesting (e.g. Europe having Ukraine as ally / Putin wanting to have statelets under his control).

The strategic objectives do have a limit in economic terms - he may simply not be able to afford any better strategic position that he has for lack of funding.

Finally the "not sustainable" is also relevant, aligns with the "not worth it".

RE delivery times and NATO shooting down planes in an undeclared war, that gets you WW III. Simple, yet wrong solution. Unfortunately, there is no way NATO can offer that level of support. An I do perfectly understand that Ukraine at this point may want it, but honestly, the first nuclear strike would be in your territory if it ever happens. Are you sure you want that?

BTW, I think that NATO helped the sinking of the Moskva. Tactics, intelligence, infiltration,... that wins wars as much as tanks and planes (typical case: U boats).

[paxmao]

Biden in Kiev and another $500 million poured into the Ukraine blackhole / money laundering scam.

His number one priority (Ukraine) along with his neo-con handlers Victoria Nuland and Anthony Blinken (they were his handlers when he was vice president also, when Ukraine initially kicked off).

As a person living in a country that in essence has become a slave to the USA as it has been taken over by globalists without an election, all I wonder is "how much is it going to cost us this time?"
Considering the astonishing foreign successes in Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and Iraq I guess Ukraine must be looking forward to a massive victory?  

Astonishing Germany is letting the whole Nordstream sabotage by terrorists Biden/Nuland/Blinken slide. I guess Germany is a slave to the USA as well now.

Sad.



I highly recommend listening to the Seymour Hersh interviews exposing the American gangster terrorists in power.
I discussed this matter with someone in the gas pipeline industry who I have known for years.
It is more than likely Hersh is right. It is a very difficult job to execute since the pipes are completely dug into the seabed.
If Russia supposedly was behind this, it would be a major international terrorist threat regardless considering pipelines and cables everywhere, why not go after the Norway to UK / Europe pipeline (The Langeled pipeline)? Sabotaging that would fuck us all over ten times more. It isn't being treated as a terrorist threat what happened either so in that sense things are extremely fishy anyway.

The media seem more than happy to ignore the matter anyway and are quickly going back to parading the Zelensky asking for F16s and UFO balloons in their headlines.

You do not live in Ukraine. US was 20 years in Afghanistan, demoted Gadhafi in Lybia, demoted  Sadam in Iraq,... I think that Ukraine could live with Putin demoted as a result of this, so great examples thanks.

The US is right in sending war material to Ukraine. Much better to fight near the RF than in the Brandenburg gate (in Berlin) and certainly much cheaper than a new full-blown cold war.

[BADecker]

Here we go. This is the first real start of the protests against the Ukrainian war... just like the protests against Viet Nam.

Click here for Ron Paul's speech against the war. There is at least one other video linked at the website.


The Power-Serving Myth That Anti-War Protests Make No Difference


https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/the-power-serving-myth-that-anti
I've been seeing some people try to downplay the numbers on social media, but footage from the Rage Against the War Machine rally makes it clear that attendance was in the thousands; people who were there place the number at around three thousand.

This is significantly better attendance than any other American anti-war demonstration in recent years that I'm aware of. It's nowhere remotely close to the historic numbers people demonstrated in to protest the war in Iraq, and it's nowhere remotely close to what it should be for an issue of such existential importance.

But it's a start. Maybe the start of something good. The ANSWER Coalition has a March on Washington scheduled for March 18th for the 20th anniversary of the Iraq invasion demanding "Negotiations not escalation" in Ukraine and an end to US militarism abroad. We shall see if this thing continues to pick up steam.
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