Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[montaga]

Now Russia invades Europe this winter. Will the Governments fight it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYAboXw9eko

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[Kavelj22]

When I read the news that the Ukrainian army is unable to repel the attacks of the drones that Russia acquired from Iran, it becomes clear to me that the Ukrainian surface-to-air defenses are very weak or non-existent at all.
The same thing when I read the news that Britain is training the Ukrainian forces on its soil before redeploying them to the battlefield, it becomes clear to me that this army is inexperienced in wars and it is hard to believe that it wins successive rounds as the loyal media wants to portray us.

Russia is putting pressure on Ukraine from several sides, not only militarily. The targeting of vital facilities (airports, power generators, warehouses for goods...) greatly affects the military support of the Ukrainian army, to which the allied countries are unable to provide adequate assistance.

[BADecker]

When I read the news that the Ukrainian army is unable to repel the attacks of the drones that Russia acquired from Iran, it becomes clear to me that the Ukrainian surface-to-air defenses are very weak or non-existent at all.
The same thing when I read the news that Britain is training the Ukrainian forces on its soil before redeploying them to the battlefield, it becomes clear to me that this army is inexperienced in wars and it is hard to believe that it wins successive rounds as the loyal media wants to portray us.

Russia is putting pressure on Ukraine from several sides, not only militarily. The targeting of vital facilities (airports, power generators, warehouses for goods...) greatly affects the military support of the Ukrainian army, to which the allied countries are unable to provide adequate assistance.

And because Ukraine is being supported by the US and Nato, the Russian pressure is really against the US and Nato.

At the same time, it is destroying the economy of the people of the US and Nato nations.

[TwitchySeal]

these drones are made in Russia

Source?

And don't tell me it's just because they renamed them.

Well, at least Geran-2 is more accurate than Shahid-136, because it uses the GLONASS satellite system for guidance, and not a commercial GPS.

I mean how do you know that the drones are being manufactured in Russia?  Where did you get this information?

What makes you think that these drones are made in Iran and were simply renamed Geran-2? Do you have any proof of this other than allegations? Or the contact fuse of a kamikaze drone does not allow you to study the wreckage of even those drones that managed to shoot down? I pointed out to you above the difference between Geranium-2 and Shahid-136 (another navigation board). This is a significant difference that affects the accuracy of hitting the target.

In addition to Geran-2, Russia also has a kamikaze drone Geran-1 (very similar, but slightly more compact and with a rotary piston engine). The same class of drones also includes the loitering ammunition Lancet, which has recently also been often used in special operation. In general, this hysterical winding of snot on a fist about possible military assistance to Russia from Iran is quite funny. Considering that three dozen countries supply lethal weapons to Ukraine.

ps No Iranian Arms Delivery to Russia for Ukraine War  

I don't know where they were manufactured.  

How do you know they were manufactured in Russia?  Or are you just making this claim because you think it will impress others with Russias capabilities?  That's what it seems like to me at this point.

[paxmao]

When I read the news that the Ukrainian army is unable to repel the attacks of the drones that Russia acquired from Iran, it becomes clear to me that the Ukrainian surface-to-air defenses are very weak or non-existent at all....

Sure, that is why the SUs and MIG are all over Ukraine supporting the ground forces -  Except for the fact that they are absolutely absent since day 0. RF air superiority, which was taken for granted even by Ukraine allies has proven to be non-existant. It is just another of the myths about the RF army that have been vanished after this botched aggression that has benefited only the US.

Russia is using drones and missiles, many of which are intercepted and many of which are inaccurate to the point of being useless because they cannot risk planes and pilots to missions in a relatively well defended sky. Trying to win a war by cutting civilians from water, electricity, hospitals and schools is useless.

[suchmoon]

When I read the news that the Ukrainian army is unable to repel the attacks of the drones that Russia acquired from Iran, it becomes clear to me that the Ukrainian surface-to-air defenses are very weak or non-existent at all.

They're hitting ~80% of those drones, which is quite good for "non-existent" air defense.

Russian air force proper doesn't ever try to enter Ukrainian airspace anymore, choosing to launch low-accuracy missiles from Belarus or deep inside Russian territory, which I think tells us something different than you assumed about the effectiveness of Ukrainian air defense.

The same thing when I read the news that Britain is training the Ukrainian forces on its soil before redeploying them to the battlefield, it becomes clear to me that this army is inexperienced in wars and it is hard to believe that it wins successive rounds as the loyal media wants to portray us.

Ukrainian soldiers training abroad seems like a major advantage over freshly mobilized Russian forces barely training if at all. Even if you believe Russian military training is on par with British, that's a wash at best.

Russia is putting pressure on Ukraine from several sides, not only militarily. The targeting of vital facilities (airports, power generators, warehouses for goods...) greatly affects the military support of the Ukrainian army, to which the allied countries are unable to provide adequate assistance.

And Ukrainians are shelling actual military targets like ammunition depots, supply routes, as opposed to Russians trying to hit civilian infrastructure and cause a humanitarian crisis. Again, seems like a significant military advantage for Ukrainians.

Not sure why you're still trying to twist this into some major media conspiracy. There is clearly a shift of momentum compared to the early months of the war and Ukrainians have been gaining ground for the last 2-3 months. Even Russian side admits losing Kharkov region and retreating from Kherson. Are the Russians also in on the pro-Ukrainian conspiracy?

[be.open]

I don't know where they were manufactured.  

How do you know they were manufactured in Russia?  Or are you just making this claim because you think it will impress others with Russias capabilities?  That's what it seems like to me at this point.

We both seem to be repeating ourselves. I think we will soon see Geran-3 kamikaze drones in action, with the same air-cooled engine (Chinese or Iranian clone of the German Limbach L550E engine for ultralight aircraft), but with a silencer and therefore not so loud. This will make the task of detecting the drone even more difficult and increase its effectiveness. We'll see.

They're hitting ~80% of those drones, which is quite good for "non-existent" air defense.

Here you are wishful thinking. These drones are extremely difficult targets for an air defense system for a number of reasons (they fly at low altitude, their body is radio-transparent, their fuel tanks are reinforced, the air-cooled engine is cold). Plus, it has a contact-type detonator, that is, even if the drone was shot down, it will still explode when it falls. And perhaps the damage from a downed drone will be even greater than if it is not touched.

Trying to win a war by cutting civilians from water, electricity, hospitals and schools is useless.

Do you still think that organizing a terrorist attack on the Crimean bridge was a good idea? I hope the income from the sale of postage stamps will help Ukraine to spend the winter without electricity, heat and light.

[LTU_btc]

Meanwhile it seems that Russia is testing new type of kamikaze fighter jets. Just in one week, it's already second time when they crash into residential building:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tql2sdctGFU

What makes you think that these drones are made in Iran and were simply renamed Geran-2? Do you have any proof of this other than allegations?

C'mon, even advisor of Russian Defense Ministry said that these drones are made in Iran, but they can't talk about it because they offcially don't recognize that they're made in Iran:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZsrQE9fIjE

Here you are wishful thinking. These drones are extremely difficult targets for an air defense system for a number of reasons (they fly at low altitude, their body is radio-transparent, their fuel tanks are reinforced, the air-cooled engine is cold). Plus, it has a contact-type detonator, that is, even if the drone was shot down, it will still explode when it falls. And perhaps the damage from a downed drone will be even greater than if it is not touched.

And somehow they managed to shoot it down with good old Buk 1M:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9LvhqlO2Rs
If these 80% would be just wishful thinking, consquences would be much worse.

[bitgov]

Meanwhile it seems that Russia is testing new type of kamikaze fighter jets. Just in one week, it's already second time when they crash into residential building:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tql2sdctGFU

What makes you think that these drones are made in Iran and were simply renamed Geran-2? Do you have any proof of this other than allegations?

C'mon, even advisor of Russian Defense Ministry said that these drones are made in Iran, but they can't talk about it because they offcially don't recognize that they're made in Iran:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZsrQE9fIjE

Here you are wishful thinking. These drones are extremely difficult targets for an air defense system for a number of reasons (they fly at low altitude, their body is radio-transparent, their fuel tanks are reinforced, the air-cooled engine is cold). Plus, it has a contact-type detonator, that is, even if the drone was shot down, it will still explode when it falls. And perhaps the damage from a downed drone will be even greater than if it is not touched.

And somehow they managed to shoot it down with good old Buk 1M:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9LvhqlO2Rs
If these 80% would be just wishful thinking, consquences would be much worse.

Reading about Iran - I read it online that Russia is purchasing new kind of Drones from Iran.
That is called Kamakazi drone. And they are making a lot of damage to Ukraine

[be.open]

What makes you think that these drones are made in Iran and were simply renamed Geran-2? Do you have any proof of this other than allegations?

C'mon, even advisor of Russian Defense Ministry said that these drones are made in Iran, but they can't talk about it because they offcially don't recognize that they're made in Iran:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZsrQE9fIjE

Probably this bald man is already storming Soledar as part of a penal company.

Here you are wishful thinking. These drones are extremely difficult targets for an air defense system for a number of reasons (they fly at low altitude, their body is radio-transparent, their fuel tanks are reinforced, the air-cooled engine is cold). Plus, it has a contact-type detonator, that is, even if the drone was shot down, it will still explode when it falls. And perhaps the damage from a downed drone will be even greater than if it is not touched.

And somehow they managed to shoot it down with good old Buk 1M:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9LvhqlO2Rs
If these 80% would be just wishful thinking, consquences would be much worse.

Nice try. The good old Buk-1M has a radius of destruction of a low-flying target up to 20 km and a probability of hitting 0.6, Ukraine simply does not have so many Buks to reliably close all possible directions of attack by drones. In principle, even the good old Shilka has a non-zero chance of success in order to shoot down a kamikaze drone. But even super-modern air defense systems cannot provide 100% reliability of defeat in the event of a night attack by a group of kamikaze drones.

Attempts to shoot down Geran-2 from an aircraft have already led to the loss of at least one MiG-29 of the Ukrainian Air Force. The Stinger MANPADS guidance system does not see Geran-2 due to the cold air-cooled engine. Any small-sized low-flying target is a deliberately difficult target for air defense. Don't talk to me about the 80% downed drones when there are rolling blackouts all over Ukraine.

[Kavelj22]

Not sure why you're still trying to twist this into some major media conspiracy. There is clearly a shift of momentum compared to the early months of the war and Ukrainians have been gaining ground for the last 2-3 months. Even Russian side admits losing Kharkov region and retreating from Kherson. Are the Russians also in on the pro-Ukrainian conspiracy?

Not everyone is able to analyze events at the same cognitive level. You look very smart my friend
This is an attempt on my part to read the events as they reach me through local media. I personally do not support the Russian war in Ukraine and consider it a barbaric aggression.

It is clear to me from your opinion that Russia is playing the humanitarian crisis card in what appears to be the most extreme solutions it has, but this is also surprising given the size of the military arsenal it possesses compared to Ukraine. Even on a strategic level, the Russian army has experience in fighting wars, whether on its territory or abroad. Is it really possible that it fails to invade a country that does not have the same experience or tools?

[tvbcof]

...
Not sure why you're still trying to twist this into some major media conspiracy. There is clearly a shift of momentum compared to the early months of the war and Ukrainians have been gaining ground for the last 2-3 months. Even Russian side admits losing Kharkov region and retreating from Kherson. Are the Russians also in on the pro-Ukrainian conspiracy?

IIRC, the Ukroids have claimed to be winning stunningly since the very first day and provided (video game footage) evidence to 'prove' it.  Yet 20% of what they were claiming was 'their' country is gone-gone.  So, nothing new about their claims of success.

In order to win the upcoming referendum in Kharkiv the Ukroid secret police ZioNazis would have to blindfold and execute probably 80% of the population (assuming those who were imported from the Western part of the country were excluded from voting.)  Good luck with that.

As for 'Kherson', looks to me as though the Ruskies picked the field of battle and time of year of their choice (Northern Kherson West of the river) and, judging from the Ukroid losses, it was a good choice.  Russia (and the U.S.) seems to be playing these retarded Ukroids like a fiddle.  How on earth anyone could still be willingly offering up their lives in a sacrifice for Zelenski and the rest of the State Dept Jews Talmudo-Kabbalah-Satanists is beyond me, but there it is.  There just has to be some sort of weird mind control going on over there, and if they were running that many biological weapons labs it seems quite possible that other 'developments' were underway as well.

  https://www.bitchute.com/video/pZ9we6XVdmCi/

As for evacuating civilians from Kherson city, yes that is happening.  It's the responsible thing to do, and of course the Ukroids took the opportunity to try to kill as many of the civies as possible with long range Western supplied weapons.  Who would expect anything else after what's been witnessed to date?  And who would doubt that they'd do a dirty-bomb nuke false flag if there is any substance to that rumour?  Probably between zero and zero thinking observers.

[suchmoon]

It is clear to me from your opinion that Russia is playing the humanitarian crisis card in what appears to be the most extreme solutions it has, but this is also surprising given the size of the military arsenal it possesses compared to Ukraine. Even on a strategic level, the Russian army has experience in fighting wars, whether on its territory or abroad. Is it really possible that it fails to invade a country that does not have the same experience or tools?

Russian military power is a mirage. Their last major victory was against nazi Germany (thus the bizarre fixation on nazis even to this day) 80 years ago but even that comes with some caveats, such as lend-lease, second front, and the amount of cannon fodder Stalin used up.

Since then they failed in Afghanistan, barely defeated Chechnia (a nation of ~1.5 million) by bombing it into rubble, and incited some smaller conflicts (Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine pre 2022). They haven't been able to create any substantially new weapons and can barely maintain old soviet equipment. Corruption in all levels of Russian government, including military, is legendary.

Here is an interesting analysis on how their claims differ from reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHhgVrKJJoA
tl;dr: claimed to have 10+ thousand tanks, may have actually had 3000 potentially usable ones before the start of the war.

[Branko]

When I read the news that the Ukrainian army is unable to repel the attacks of the drones that Russia acquired from Iran, it becomes clear to me that the Ukrainian surface-to-air defenses are very weak or non-existent at all....

Sure, that is why the SUs and MIG are all over Ukraine supporting the ground forces -  Except for the fact that they are absolutely absent since day 0. RF air superiority, which was taken for granted even by Ukraine allies has proven to be non-existant. It is just another of the myths about the RF army that have been vanished after this botched aggression that has benefited only the US.

Russia is using drones and missiles, many of which are intercepted and many of which are inaccurate to the point of being useless because they cannot risk planes and pilots to missions in a relatively well defended sky. Trying to win a war by cutting civilians from water, electricity, hospitals and schools is useless.

Its not useless, as UK/US "Shock and awe" proved in Iraq...its just that Russia was for some reason reluctant to use it at start

Russian military power is a mirage. Their last major victory was against nazi Germany (thus the bizarre fixation on nazis even to this day) 80 years ago but even that comes with some caveats, such as lend-lease, second front, and the amount of cannon fodder Stalin used up.

Since then they failed in Afghanistan, barely defeated Chechnia (a nation of ~1.5 million) by bombing it into rubble, and incited some smaller conflicts (Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine pre 2022). They haven't been able to create any substantially new weapons and can barely maintain old soviet equipment. Corruption in all levels of Russian government, including military, is legendary.

Here is an interesting analysis on how their claims differ from reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHhgVrKJJoA
tl;dr: claimed to have 10+ thousand tanks, may have actually had 3000 potentially usable ones before the start of the war.

So now that Ukraine destroyed more than 4000 out of those 3000, there are no tanks on Russian side of battlefield?

[suchmoon]

So now that Ukraine destroyed more than 4000 out of those 3000, there are no tanks on Russian side of battlefield?

In your haste to make shit up you may have overdone it a little bit. Ukraine claims to have destroyed or captured ~2500 (Oryx confirmed ~1400).

Russia has been taking tanks from Lukashenko and also bringing rusty "unpickled" T62s to the war zone - I doubt they'd do that if they didn't have severe shortages.

[paxmao]

When I read the news that the Ukrainian army is unable to repel the attacks of the drones that Russia acquired from Iran, it becomes clear to me that the Ukrainian surface-to-air defenses are very weak or non-existent at all....

Sure, that is why the SUs and MIG are all over Ukraine supporting the ground forces -  Except for the fact that they are absolutely absent since day 0. RF air superiority, which was taken for granted even by Ukraine allies has proven to be non-existant. It is just another of the myths about the RF army that have been vanished after this botched aggression that has benefited only the US.

Russia is using drones and missiles, many of which are intercepted and many of which are inaccurate to the point of being useless because they cannot risk planes and pilots to missions in a relatively well defended sky. Trying to win a war by cutting civilians from water, electricity, hospitals and schools is useless.

Its not useless, as UK/US "Shock and awe" proved in Iraq...its just that Russia was for some reason reluctant to use it at start
...

They were not willing to use it because they wanted to take a country just by walking in. Does that solve to you the why? Now they are ok with destroying anything they cannot take, and even for that it seems they somehow are not achieving exceptional results.

Shock and awe was to a scale 20 times bigger than anything the RF could field even before the start of the war, when they still had some of the better weapons platforms operative and in, to a point, in enough quantity. US employed proper cruise missiles (504) and around 1200  proper warplane sorties. It was delivered in a very short period of time and against a country that did not have proper air defences to compete with US.

But even after such a concentrated attack, the war ended up in cleaning Fallujah and Saadr City house by house, street by street and never being able to pacify Irak. Is that how good looks like to you?

So now that Ukraine destroyed more than 4000 out of those 3000, there are no tanks on Russian side of battlefield?

In your haste to make shit up you may have overdone it a little bit. Ukraine claims to have destroyed or captured ~2500 (Oryx confirmed ~1400).

Russia has been taking tanks from Lukashenko and also bringing rusty "unpickled" T62s to the war zone - I doubt they'd do that if they didn't have severe shortages.

I guess you cannot recruit a tank by force, like the slave orcs being sent to the front under threat.

[BADecker]

Wow! Almost can't believe that Dems are turning around to look for a peaceful outcome to the war.


30 House Dems Urge Dramatic Shift In Biden's Ukraine Policy: 'Get Serious About Diplomacy Or Risk Nuclear Miscalculation'

In a wholly unexpected development, given that until just yesterday any prominent person wishing to talk Ukraine peace plan possibilities or who expressed hope for a negotiated end to the war was denounced and shouted down as a 'Kremlin agent', a group of 30 House Democrats is now urging the Biden administration to pursue a diplomatic track with Moscow.

The Washington Post, which detailed the contents of a letter sent to President Biden by the Congressional Dems, underscored they are calling for the US to "dramatically shift" its strategy on the Ukraine war for the first time, with the grinding conflict now reaching the eight-month mark.

"The longer the war in Ukraine goes on, the greater the risk of escalation — to widespread, devastating effect," Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), who is leading the efforts for a comprehensive strategy shift, told the Washington Post. "We should have no illusions about the challenge ahead of us, but ... my colleagues and I are urging the Administration to engage in a proactive diplomatic push in an effort to seek a realistic framework for a ceasefire."

Crucially, it seems the past month of heightened nuclear rhetoric is actually waking up some of the politicians who appeared to be sleepwalking straight into "Armageddon" - as Biden's own ultra-alarming remarks on October 6 put it. Biden had said at the time before a Democratic audience at a New York fundraiser, "We're trying to figure out what is Putin's off-ramp? Where does he get off? Where does he find a way out?" And he then asserted of the Russian president, "He is not joking when he talks about potential use of tactical nuclear weapons or biological and chemical weapons."

...

[cornhodlr]

I heard some commentator say the Russians could be drawing not only Ukraine but allied forces into a trap and that there could be some type of nuclear incident by either side to provoke allied troops to cross the border into Ukraine but then they would most likely be met with a full nuclear response within the borders of Ukraine which would not legally trigger article 5 or something to this effect.Does anyone think this is a possibility or would the Russians foolishly use a nuclear weapon in Ukraine.After all Ukraine is also bordering their country and the fallout would affect them too not to mention the possibility of a full scale invasion of Russia as a response.This then would start a global nuclear war.This is getting very dangerous and only a fool would imagine it won't affect them because they are on the other side of the planet.If a nuclear war starts we will all be dead or dying within 24 hours and that includes most of us on this thread

[Branko]

I heard some commentator say the Russians could be drawing not only Ukraine but allied forces into a trap and that there could be some type of nuclear incident by either side to provoke allied troops to cross the border into Ukraine but then they would most likely be met with a full nuclear response within the borders of Ukraine which would not legally trigger article 5 or something to this effect.Does anyone think this is a possibility or would the Russians foolishly use a nuclear weapon in Ukraine.After all Ukraine is also bordering their country and the fallout would affect them too not to mention the possibility of a full scale invasion of Russia as a response.This then would start a global nuclear war.This is getting very dangerous and only a fool would imagine it won't affect them because they are on the other side of the planet.If a nuclear war starts we will all be dead or dying within 24 hours and that includes most of us on this thread

Noone, and I mean NOONE would use anything but strongly worded letters, more sanctions and more weapons sent to Ukraine as response
for tactical nukes. There are other considerations preventing Russia from using it

[paxmao]

I heard some commentator say the Russians could be drawing not only Ukraine but allied forces into a trap and that there could be some type of nuclear incident by either side to provoke allied troops to cross the border into Ukraine but then they would most likely be met with a full nuclear response within the borders of Ukraine which would not legally trigger article 5 or something to this effect.Does anyone think this is a possibility or would the Russians foolishly use a nuclear weapon in Ukraine.After all Ukraine is also bordering their country and the fallout would affect them too not to mention the possibility of a full scale invasion of Russia as a response.This then would start a global nuclear war.This is getting very dangerous and only a fool would imagine it won't affect them because they are on the other side of the planet.If a nuclear war starts we will all be dead or dying within 24 hours and that includes most of us on this thread

Noone, and I mean NOONE would use anything but strongly worded letters, more sanctions and more weapons sent to Ukraine as response
for tactical nukes. There are other considerations preventing Russia from using it

That does not seem what the US ambassador declared on the matter. They did declare that the answer would not be nuclear, but would be devastating. He was not talking about sanctions.

In any case, tactical nukes would not be a good idea. Firstly, most countries in the world would have at least some shift against RF, I thinking China, India. The "N" word is a hated one. Second, the land would be basically be left radioactive and, depending on the winds, it could spread to other countries. One thing is to send Chernobyl radiation to Europe, a different think on-purpose made toxic clouds.

But even if all that is overseen, the effectiveness of tactical nukes is not that great.