Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[DaRude]

Just replace the subject to something from the other side and see if such claim can still be applied to the other side.

We've seen all kinds of whataboutism in this thread and none of it has made any sense so far. Neither does this.

Nor does it make sense for you to be trying so hard to prove that Russia has blackmail potential. I mean of all things... this is important?

As far-right parties score election victories across the EU, the nationalist Alternative for Germany party is looking to translate economic anxiety into similar gains. The polls suggest that the strategy is working.
...
The AfD was founded in 2013 as a euroskeptic party. And still, their position is that Germany should leave the EU
...
"They are saying that corrupt lawmakers are ignoring the needs of the people. They're arguing that elites in Moscow aren't the victims of these sanctions policies, but the German people are."
...
The message that the AfD is trying to send to the governing coalition of the center-left Social Democrats (SPD), the Green Party and the neoliberal Free Democrats (FDP) is clear: "You are not in charge of Russia — you're in charge of this country."
...
ˈThe worse things are for Germany, the better things are for the AfDˈ Indeed, AfD co-chair Tino Chrupalla has repeatedly accused Chancellor Olaf Scholz's government of fighting an "economic war" against Germans as inflation has risen to over 8%. The sanctions "are not in Germany's interest," Chrupalla has insisted, predicting that "throughout the fall, support for the government's policies will continue to sink."
...
According to figures published by research firm INSA, national support for Scholz's party has fallen from 25.7% in last year's federal election to 18% on Monday, the FDP has been reduced by half to 7% and even the Green Party is now experiencing a backlash against their plans to mitigate the gas shortage.
The AfD, in the same time frame, has risen in the national polls from 10% to 15%, one of its highest levels ever.
...
As households across Germany are shocked to receive their heating bills, the right-wing populists see golden opportunities ahead.
...
Under the slogan "a hot autumn against cold feet," the AfD has announced plans to hold weekly anti-government marches in the coming months
...
The AfD leader announced a concerted protest movement against the government's energy and Russia policies. From October, the AfD wants to take to the streets with the rallying cry "Our country first!" Chrupalla declined to confirm that this was modeled on Donald Trump's "America first" campaign.

https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-far-right-afd-hopes-for-a-boost-in-times-of-crisis/a-63252759

Just them is 15% of Germans. Right, of course Putin totally blew up his own gas pipeline to Germany, why would he want to appeal to people that side with him and build up Germans political will, he totally didn't want any news coverage of them protesting for Germany to start deliveries over NS so he blew it up 3 months before Germany's toughest months begin next you'll tell us that unicorns are real?

I don't even like ultra rights but any attempts at denying them sweeping EU is delusional, just as Putin destroying his own pipes to remove even a chance for the debates over turning on NS

Ohh what a clever idea, think so far this one takes the prize, following that logic instead of just turning the pipelines off, Russia should just start blowing all of them up, you know that'll really get the gas prices going up. You should've been more careful disclosing such ingenious ideas, now Qatar/Saudi Arabia/Iran/Venezuela might find out just how lucrative it can be to blow up their own most valuable pipelines!

Uhm... make sure you're sitting down for this one: Russia had already turned the pipeline off. They've done it multiple times for ridiculous made up reasons. They've exhausted the blackmail potential on that one. Closing it off for a few weeks apparently just makes Germany work even harder on arranging alternative supplies, instead of wanting to cave (stop Ukraine weapon supplies, open NS2 etc), who could have possibly guessed.

Blowing it up though creates a few new potential scenarios, like threats to other pipelines etc. Again, this is Russian propaganda staple, what with apocalyptic "Europe freezing" scenarios etc. I'm not sure why you're now doing 180 from the gas blackmail and claim Russia couldn't have possibly done it. I guess trying to drive a wedge between the US and Europe is the new propaganda pivot. Good luck with that. Nothing unites more than a common enemy, especially a deranged lunatic like Putin.

If we ignore the propaganda crap and take a sober look at things, it suddenly turns out that the United States is the main beneficiary of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, and the European Union is its main victim.

The US and Europe are not only NATO allies, but also competitors. By fomenting and sustaining the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, the United States strengthens its economy and weakens the economy of the European Union. The US military-industrial complex receives large orders, and the European military-industrial complex is suffering from an energy crisis and cannot turn around at full strength. After the sabotage on the Nord Stream, the German industry can be confidently put an end to. No, Europe will not freeze this winter, but it will be largely deindustrialized. And next year, in addition to the current problems, Germany will have a problem with millions of unemployed from the stopped energy-intensive industry - metallurgy, chemistry, cars, etc. Germany from the locomotive of the European Union will turn into its brake. The European Union is fucked.

If you ignore the propaganda crap, you will have no reason to exist.

I can see that you finally realised what I have been saying over and over since months ago:  Russia and Europe have never been winner in any war in Europe. The ones benefiting from this one are Saudis, China, US...  Note: Certainly not the RF, it is not only coming diplomatically and politically weaker, but also fucking its economy for the long term.

 In the war of 1914, Europe lost world dominance, in WW II, USA emerged as the superpower is today and now thanks to the Psychos of the RF Russia is bleeding people and has no expectative of growth whatsoever for the next decade and Europe will have ... a bump in the road until they unlink from RF gas.

Again, I mentioned a while ago that, thanks to Adolf Putin and the Psycos in the RF army:

- EU has more debt and has to undergo an energy transformation.
- RF has extended its border with NATO by thousands of kilometres and has driven two neutral countries into the NATO.
- Has been proven as an unreliable supplier.
- Has been sanctioned and is unlikely to ever recover its stance in the world.
- Has lost the technological and professional elites that are needed for the progress of a country.

In essence, has lost everything that makes a country prosper and be regarded as a partner. Did the US intend this? Of course. Did Adolf Putin acted in the best way to stop it? You tell me genius.

...


Putin  lost a lot of valuable time trying to appease West...alliance with China and India is much better choice

I think you have lived for too long in a country that let's you speak freely. I urge you to apply for RF citizenship - with your previous military experience you will have the chance to fully enjoy the advantages of an authoritarian regime in the front line, like many of the young unready and unwilling recruited soldiers.

...

So curiously, the long term effect is only the loss of a valuable infrastructure which damages the German investors in the project but not much more, that is why the retaliation hypothesis makes perfect sense. Also an infrastructure that is precisely in non-NATO territory.

Now, why would the US sabotage the pipeline?
- To fuck like you say his main ally in Europe? (stupid)
- To force Germany to be dependent of Ukraine (not impossible, but still fucking your allies).

The second one makes a 25% sense let's say, but the risk of an international backslash against US in case of being found clearly exceeds any veeeery long shot "advantage".

Bottomline, as it is now, it looks like international terrorism from Adolf Putin's Psychos and the Chief Orcs.

I know all who are commenting here have already picked their truths by virtue of pledging allegiance to one side or the other, but just in case someone is reading here that's truly just trying to make some sense out of this all:  
Let's cover leverage first. Surely we must all agree that the point of any sanction/limitation is to apply pressure in order to achieve desired results. By definition, both sides loose from sanctions/limitations, as if trade/agreement wasn't beneficial for both sides it wouldn't have happened in the first place. The big question with sanctions is who looses more! When you tell your kids that no one is going to the movies until they finish their vegetables, the point is that you incentivize them to eat their vegetables, of course you can easily achieve not going to the movies by blowing up your own car but that was never your goal in the first place!

Germany wants Russian gas, Russia want to get paid. Timing of gas payments are not critical to Russia at all (they don't care if they get paid in summer or winter), where timing of gas deliveries is extremely critical to Germany (that's why all gas pipeline maintenance is done during the summer months)! No one cares about gas usage this very day, German gas consumption in September is just above the minimal in August, and Germany has plenty in reserves to cover short term, so Russian doesn't have any leverage for this moment. The leverage comes in play at peaks during Dec-Mar. That's when Russian gas is of critical importance, social unrest and monetary pressures will be at their all time high. Any clown that tries to convince anyone that Russia blew up their own pipeline in September when demand is just starting to climb is just trying to make an imbeciles out of their listeners.



To address your point, whether intentionally or not, you're confusing the RU pumping in gas to fill German reserves that could be used later at critical time vs actually sending gas during that critical time! Just because Russia didn't want Germany to build up their reserves with RU gas during non-critical warmer months and turned off the gas, clearly doesn't mean that RU for some idiotic reason decided to remove any and all advantage it has for the coming most critical winter season where its leverage over Germany would've been at its peak!

Long term, there's absolutely no benefit to Russia to make German gas deliveries dependent on other EU states, think Germany can even consider Brexit? Gerxit? Gexit? when all their gas deliveries go though EU?

I mean Biden straight up spelled out that he'll stop the pipeline, member of the European parliament thanked USA in the post about blown pipeline, and now you try to question why US would do it?? US presidents public intentions are not good enough for you?

...

Mostly irrelevant, it does not matter when or how the reserves are used or filled. The fact is that RF shuts the valve and it matters little if the NS is operational or not in the short term and there are still several paths for the gas to fill the reserves if there was a political will, which is not the case.

There are several things in you post that are beyond reality (e.g. a Grexit), stating that the NS I & II are "Russia property",... I cannot even comment on those.

And now,

The RF is not acting in a rational manner as you or I would interpret it. Their prime objective is to act like they always act: twisting arms, threatening, intimidating and terrorising... having an international stance as "though" as Adolf Putin riding a horse half naked. They do not understand anything but retaliation and these attacks look to me like retaliation from miles away. Again, away from NATO territory, so it cannot be interpreted as an attack on a member country.

Again, the hypothesis of the US blowing up European infrastructures is pretty much senseless, as they already have Europe dependent on them for military and economic reasons and, if discovered, it would be such a radical change in relations for the worse that is simply not worth it.

Too many leaks in the pipeline of your "critical thinking".

December is only 2 months away, if the political will to buy RU gas will build up come winter but now Germany will be forced to buy RU gas through Ukraine, will you admit then that you were wrong in your assessment and that it definitely would've been much easier if Germany could arrange for deliveries through NS directly without involving UA?

But then again your covered yourself nicely with assertion of RU acting in irrational manner. That's a nice cover to literally explain any and all possible actions that disadvantage RU as doing of RU itself. i.e. Look they just started to blow up their own subs, and destroy their own gas refineries, told you they were acting irrationally, that's just how their think tanks political/social/economic/research institutes work don't try to think and just believe me  

Some reading from 2021 for some context The German government offered the Trump administration financial support of up to €1 billion ($1.21 billion) in a bid to prevent Washington from imposing sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline

[1714223900]

1714223900

[1714223900]

1714223900

[Synchronice]

@be.open
@DaRude

I'm just wondering, how do you guys feel since the announcement of partial mobilization in Russia? Will we see you in the front lines? Can you two update us here?

Oh, wait, paparazzis everywhere Someone caught you [Source]

[be.open]

@be.open
@DaRude

I'm just wondering, how do you guys feel since the announcement of partial mobilization in Russia? Will we see you in the front lines? Can you two update us here?

I have a dilemma - I do not want to shave, and with a beard I will become too conspicuous a target for snipers. There is an option to get to the front through the Special Forces University in Grozny, where almost everyone is bearded. While I'm considering the possibility of participating in the Ukrainian safari, but my assault backpack is already packed. If I stop writing on the forum for a long time, then I'm already much closer to you than you think.

Now, please return the courtesy - why are you yourself not yet at the front, after the eighth wave of mobilization in Ukraine?

[suchmoon]

The capture of Lyman is a Pyrrhic victory for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Two weeks of unsuccessful attempts to close the boiler, huge losses of manpower and armored vehicles, the weakening of the Soledar direction due to the transfer of reserves and the general loss of pace of the Kharkov counteroffensive. And on the nose is winter, for which Ukraine is not at all ready, soon the leaves will fall from the trees, Russia will begin to receive fresh reserves from the mobilized. But for now, rejoice - Lyman is yours.

From "May 9 parade in Kyiv" to "loss of pace of the Kharkov counteroffensive" is a bit of a downgrade, isn't it? What's next, "Donetsk is not a big deal, it's a shitty city with no water, we still have Belgorod", and "Ukrainians are really screwed once we retreat behind the Urals, they'll freeze in the mountains chasing us".

Might be a bit difficult for the glorious Drunken Partially Mobilized Forces of Russia to survive the winter naked.

Russia’s MP for Zabaykalsky region lieutenant general Andrey Gurulev has said that 1.5 million sets of military uniform had gone missing, reports local outlet Tayga.info.

Gotta love the eternal optimism even when reporting this kind of news... "gone missing" LOL as if they can be found.

[BADecker]

Putin isn't alone. He has loads of counselors who bring up ideas and who work to combine these ideas into different scenarios. The west is similar with their leaders.

Much of what is discussed has to do with what it might take to get somebody to use nukes, and how far they can be pushed before they DO use nukes.

We don't know the discussions going on about this whole thing. But the US and its allies seem to think that Russia won't use nukes. Why? Nobody knows, but there must be a reason why the US thinks it can continue to provoke Russia without getting nuked.

Or is that what the US wants... the Nukes to fly?

[paxmao]

30th September: Lyman joins Russian Federation
1st October: Lyman leaves Russian federation.
Seems that they didn't liked to be part of Russia. And nobody cares about results of fake referendums and Putin rhetoric
BTW, Ukrainians lready went for appointment in local office of DPR head Denis Pushilin Penis Dushilin, but unfortunately he wasn't here. Well, maybe next time.
https://t.me/truexanewsua/61669

Can't be good for morale to retreat from a city you just "annexed" the day before.

That's not usually how annexing works.

Also now, in Putins alternate reality, Russia is now being occupied by Nazis.  How long can he "allow" that to happen before even the most brainwashed (whatever it is they call boomer generation in Russia) start to realize reality is much different than they previously believed?

The capture of Lyman is a Pyrrhic victory for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Two weeks of unsuccessful attempts to close the boiler, huge losses of manpower and armored vehicles, the weakening of the Soledar direction due to the transfer of reserves and the general loss of pace of the Kharkov counteroffensive. And on the nose is winter, for which Ukraine is not at all ready, soon the leaves will fall from the trees, Russia will begin to receive fresh reserves from the mobilized. But for now, rejoice - Lyman is yours.

Basically the RF Psychos last and final bet is nothing but a SLAVE ARMY, fighting only for fear of what their government may do to them of their families if they decide not to fight. Old reservists that know so well the deplorable morale and the inhumane treatment they will get under the Psychos that will be doing anything in their power to avoid fighting and will use any excuse to retreat.

My suggestions:

- Sorry officer, I do not know where that fuel went missing.
- Sorry officer, this truck does not start and somehow we cant find the sugar packets we had right here.
- Tank? What tank sir?
- Oh, sorry, I only had one week of training, what do you say I have to do with this WW I rifle?

Do you think slaves fight well? They don't, an less if they do not have logistics and need to forage around for food.

I see, this is the same user that was speaking of massive impulse and front collapse when the Orcs were taking a few scattered villages around and now is saying that Ukraine is "not ready for winter" and "fresh reserves" - AKA Slave Soldiers, AKA Tactical Cannon Fodder will miraculously do something different to what has been done before.

Putin isn't alone. He has loads of counselors who bring up ideas and who work to combine these ideas into different scenarios. The west is similar with their leaders.

Much of what is discussed has to do with what it might take to get somebody to use nukes, and how far they can be pushed before they DO use nukes.

We don't know the discussions going on about this whole thing. But the US and its allies seem to think that Russia won't use nukes. Why? Nobody knows, but there must be a reason why the US thinks it can continue to provoke Russia without getting nuked.

Or is that what the US wants... the Nukes to fly?

Adolf Putin is surrounded with potential next Adolf Putins. As of now, he is barely in control of the secret service and pretty much in the hands of the military. It is a problem that he has little to loose by dying in a last blast of "glory", but hopefully someone will kill him before that.

The scenarios being considered are not around the ICBMs, which guarantee that nobody wins anything, but rather about the nearly 2000 nuclear tactical projectiles of different kinds that the RF holds. The US has a few over 200, as it has been long since they decided that is much cleaner, effective and efficient to use other conventional weapons.

Please notice that "effective" and "efficient" in this context means that they can blast expensive and critical target with precision and certainty.

[suchmoon]

Do you think slaves fight well?

Surprisingly they don't ask "what happened to the supposedly professional contractor forces that were fighting before us" and just go to the meat grinder. Well, except those that bailed to Mongolia et al.

Maybe this can explain it:

In the Russian city of Bataysk, some couples rushed to tie the knot on the same day the men were leaving to fulfill the Kremlin's "partial mobilization" for the war in Ukraine, according to Reuters.

It's good business by Russian standards. 7 million rubles (~120k USD) to the widow if the newlywed gets killed in Ukraine.

[paxmao]

Do you think slaves fight well?

Surprisingly they don't ask "what happened to the supposedly professional contractor forces that were fighting before us" and just go to the meat grinder. Well, except those that bailed to Mongolia et al.

Maybe this can explain it:

In the Russian city of Bataysk, some couples rushed to tie the knot on the same day the men were leaving to fulfill the Kremlin's "partial mobilization" for the war in Ukraine, according to Reuters.

It's good business by Russian standards. 7 million rubles (~120k USD) to the widow if the newlywed gets killed in Ukraine.

Sure, it leaves one wondering why people do not flock to the recruitment offices -  but rather they try to burn them. I think that the Psychos got the price wrong, no decent RF wife would sell his dear husband for less than 8 million rubles.

But it certainly inspires me a business: Match-a-slave. Basically, women from around the world can see soldiers on-line, with info of where are they mobilised and AI information about the possibility of them being killed. They chose one (or many?) and get married on-line. Then is just a question of waiting for them to be HIMARSed, or burn alive in their tanks.

Easy money duh??

@be.open
@DaRude

I'm just wondering, how do you guys feel since the announcement of partial mobilization in Russia? Will we see you in the front lines? Can you two update us here?

I have a dilemma - I do not want to shave, and with a beard I will become too conspicuous a target for snipers. There is an option to get to the front through the Special Forces University in Grozny, where almost everyone is bearded. While I'm considering the possibility of participating in the Ukrainian safari, but my assault backpack is already packed. If I stop writing on the forum for a long time, then I'm already much closer to you than you think.

Now, please return the courtesy - why are you yourself not yet at the front, after the eighth wave of mobilization in Ukraine?

Do not forget to get married first.

Fat chance of you going even near a front line. You are a psycho, you like others being killed and you like to boast about how great is to kill others to steal their land and their future -  but that always comes with the internal fear of someone doing it to you. Certainly you will not ever volunteer.

[1miau]

Just replace the subject to something from the other side and see if such claim can still be applied to the other side.

We've seen all kinds of whataboutism in this thread and none of it has made any sense so far. Neither does this.

Nor does it make sense for you to be trying so hard to prove that Russia has blackmail potential. I mean of all things... this is important?

As far-right parties score election victories across the EU, the nationalist Alternative for Germany party is looking to translate economic anxiety into similar gains. The polls suggest that the strategy is working.
...
The AfD was founded in 2013 as a euroskeptic party. And still, their position is that Germany should leave the EU
...
"They are saying that corrupt lawmakers are ignoring the needs of the people. They're arguing that elites in Moscow aren't the victims of these sanctions policies, but the German people are."
...
The message that the AfD is trying to send to the governing coalition of the center-left Social Democrats (SPD), the Green Party and the neoliberal Free Democrats (FDP) is clear: "You are not in charge of Russia — you're in charge of this country."
...
ˈThe worse things are for Germany, the better things are for the AfDˈ Indeed, AfD co-chair Tino Chrupalla has repeatedly accused Chancellor Olaf Scholz's government of fighting an "economic war" against Germans as inflation has risen to over 8%. The sanctions "are not in Germany's interest," Chrupalla has insisted, predicting that "throughout the fall, support for the government's policies will continue to sink."
...
According to figures published by research firm INSA, national support for Scholz's party has fallen from 25.7% in last year's federal election to 18% on Monday, the FDP has been reduced by half to 7% and even the Green Party is now experiencing a backlash against their plans to mitigate the gas shortage.
The AfD, in the same time frame, has risen in the national polls from 10% to 15%, one of its highest levels ever.
...
As households across Germany are shocked to receive their heating bills, the right-wing populists see golden opportunities ahead.
...
Under the slogan "a hot autumn against cold feet," the AfD has announced plans to hold weekly anti-government marches in the coming months
...
The AfD leader announced a concerted protest movement against the government's energy and Russia policies. From October, the AfD wants to take to the streets with the rallying cry "Our country first!" Chrupalla declined to confirm that this was modeled on Donald Trump's "America first" campaign.

https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-far-right-afd-hopes-for-a-boost-in-times-of-crisis/a-63252759

Just them is 15% of Germans. Right, of course Putin totally blew up his own gas pipeline to Germany, why would he want to appeal to people that side with him and build up Germans political will, he totally didn't want any news coverage of them protesting for Germany to start deliveries over NS so he blew it up 3 months before Germany's toughest months begin next you'll tell us that unicorns are real?

As a German I can tell you that you are indeed the sort of guy where 1 random article from the internet is enough to make up your opinion.  
Things are very easy in the world of Putin apologists like you - no surprise.  

The AfD from 2022 has (almost) nothing to do with AfD from 2013 (only the name). AfD started as a party criticizing many "poorer" EU countries (Italy, Greece) which got a lot of money from Germany via EU and because Germany paid that, AfD wanted to stop money transfers to them because in AfD 2013's opinion these countries were "lazy".
The AfD from 2013 didn't want to leave EU - never! They wanted to bring reforms to EU and some advocated for a revival of Deutsche Mark - Germans currency before Euro was launched.
Their main topic were economics. Most of their leaders were educated and sane back in 2013.

In 2015, AfD selected a new leader while during 2015, the right wing of AfD gained massive traction and the right wing achieved a coup against the founder of AfD - he was ousted and in a hot battle, he left the party. He was replaced by Frauke Petry, a moderate right wing politician and when the immigration crisis 2015 came up, AfD shifted their agenda from their former topic (economics) to immigration - advocating to deny most immigrants and throw them out of Germany.
Some years later, in 2017, Frauke Petry also faced a coup from the right wing of the right wing (nationalists) and the nationalists won - the party shiftet further right.
There was a third shift even further right in 2019 / 2020, when the fascist right took over the important lead over the Eastern-German parts of the party, where Bernd Höcke, a fascist, is so strong.

In its history, the party has only become more radical every few years.

Almost all people who founded AfD in 2013 have now left the party or were thrown out by the fascist right, whose leader Bernd Höcke is.
There are almost no sane people left in this party...


And no, I have to disappoint you, neither Germany nor USA/Poland nor Ukraine blow up NordStream 2, but Putin has clear motives to blow it up.

Let's look at it:

Germany doesn't need to blow up this pipeline since it has been sure since Putin's illegal war, that NordStream 2 will never be activated and purchase of russian gas by NordStream 1 to Germany will stop as soon as possible. Germany has pushed very hard to get rid of russian gas and the pipeline has become basically irrelevant.
Why should they blow up the pipeline? Makes no sense at all.  

After USA tried to lobby against NordStream 2 for years with massive efforts but has been unsuccesful so far because surprisingly, Putin has been the one who made their mission succesful on February 24, when Putin invaded Ukraine and isolated Russia succesfully from the West.
Surely, the USA would blow up a useless pipeline which will never get activated because Putin finished this Job already on February 24.
Surely, the USA would risk the alliance by blowing up a useless pipeline from an allied state (Germany) while there's no need at all to take such a risky adventure (will never get activated).
Surely, the USA would only blow up 3 streams and 1 of them, especially from NordStream 2, will stay intact, so that Putin can still potentially send gas to Germany.  

According to some Kremlin trolls it can also be Ukraine. Maybe Ukraine rent a dolphin, a brave guy (Klitschko) with some dynamite swam on the back of the dolphin through Black Sea, Mediterranean Sea, half of the Atlantic, through the English Channel, past Denmark and Sweden just to the Baltic Sea to blow up the useless pipeline.
Surely, Ukraine would risk the support from the west for blowing up a useless pipeline...  

While Russia has a useless pipeline since German politicians have learned their lesson to abandon Putin and his gas. Since Putin invaded Ukraine, it was very clear that NordStream 2 would not be activated. While Putin continued his war crimes and now annexed 4 parts of Ukraine, it was very clear that Germany will stop purchasing Russian gas as soon as possible. Therefore, Putin run out of options what to do with his failed pipeling because Germany doesn't played his game and he looked bad.  
Surprinsingly, one Stream of NordStream 2 is still intact, leaving it open for Putin demanding Germany to open it.
Let me guess which stories are plausible and which not.  

But sure, the guy from Kremlin, who has lied basically every day, is not the one to blow up his useless pipeline and blame the west (as usual).
Idiots like you are his best asset - completely brainwashed...  

I don't even like ultra rights but any attempts at denying them sweeping EU is delusional, just as Putin destroying his own pipes to remove even a chance for the debates over turning on NS

You are delusional, same as Putin.  
Your dumb takes are embarassing.  

[DaRude]

Just replace the subject to something from the other side and see if such claim can still be applied to the other side.

We've seen all kinds of whataboutism in this thread and none of it has made any sense so far. Neither does this.

Nor does it make sense for you to be trying so hard to prove that Russia has blackmail potential. I mean of all things... this is important?

As far-right parties score election victories across the EU, the nationalist Alternative for Germany party is looking to translate economic anxiety into similar gains. The polls suggest that the strategy is working.
...
The AfD was founded in 2013 as a euroskeptic party. And still, their position is that Germany should leave the EU
...
"They are saying that corrupt lawmakers are ignoring the needs of the people. They're arguing that elites in Moscow aren't the victims of these sanctions policies, but the German people are."
...
The message that the AfD is trying to send to the governing coalition of the center-left Social Democrats (SPD), the Green Party and the neoliberal Free Democrats (FDP) is clear: "You are not in charge of Russia — you're in charge of this country."
...
ˈThe worse things are for Germany, the better things are for the AfDˈ Indeed, AfD co-chair Tino Chrupalla has repeatedly accused Chancellor Olaf Scholz's government of fighting an "economic war" against Germans as inflation has risen to over 8%. The sanctions "are not in Germany's interest," Chrupalla has insisted, predicting that "throughout the fall, support for the government's policies will continue to sink."
...
According to figures published by research firm INSA, national support for Scholz's party has fallen from 25.7% in last year's federal election to 18% on Monday, the FDP has been reduced by half to 7% and even the Green Party is now experiencing a backlash against their plans to mitigate the gas shortage.
The AfD, in the same time frame, has risen in the national polls from 10% to 15%, one of its highest levels ever.
...
As households across Germany are shocked to receive their heating bills, the right-wing populists see golden opportunities ahead.
...
Under the slogan "a hot autumn against cold feet," the AfD has announced plans to hold weekly anti-government marches in the coming months
...
The AfD leader announced a concerted protest movement against the government's energy and Russia policies. From October, the AfD wants to take to the streets with the rallying cry "Our country first!" Chrupalla declined to confirm that this was modeled on Donald Trump's "America first" campaign.

https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-far-right-afd-hopes-for-a-boost-in-times-of-crisis/a-63252759

Just them is 15% of Germans. Right, of course Putin totally blew up his own gas pipeline to Germany, why would he want to appeal to people that side with him and build up Germans political will, he totally didn't want any news coverage of them protesting for Germany to start deliveries over NS so he blew it up 3 months before Germany's toughest months begin next you'll tell us that unicorns are real?

As a German I can tell you that you are indeed the sort of guy where 1 random article from the internet is enough to make up your opinion.  
Things are very easy in the world of Putin apologists like you - no surprise.  

The AfD from 2022 has (almost) nothing to do with AfD from 2013 (only the name). AfD started as a party criticizing many "poorer" EU countries (Italy, Greece) which got a lot of money from Germany via EU and because Germany paid that, AfD wanted to stop money transfers to them because in AfD 2013's opinion these countries were "lazy".
The AfD from 2013 didn't want to leave EU - never! They wanted to bring reforms to EU and some advocated for a revival of Deutsche Mark - Germans currency before Euro was launched.
Their main topic were economics. Most of their leaders were educated and sane back in 2013.

In 2015, AfD selected a new leader while during 2015, the right wing of AfD gained massive traction and the right wing achieved a coup against the founder of AfD - he was ousted and in a hot battle, he left the party. He was replaced by Frauke Petry, a moderate right wing politician and when the immigration crisis 2015 came up, AfD shifted their agenda from their former topic (economics) to immigration - advocating to deny most immigrants and throw them out of Germany.
Some years later, in 2017, Frauke Petry also faced a coup from the right wing of the right wing (nationalists) and the nationalists won - the party shiftet further right.
There was a third shift even further right in 2019 / 2020, when the fascist right took over the important lead over the Eastern-German parts of the party, where Bernd Höcke, a fascist, is so strong.

In its history, the party has only become more radical every few years.

Almost all people who founded AfD in 2013 have now left the party or were thrown out by the fascist right, whose leader Bernd Höcke is.
There are almost no sane people left in this party...


And no, I have to disappoint you, neither Germany nor USA/Poland nor Ukraine blow up NordStream 2, but Putin has clear motives to blow it up.

Let's look at it:

Germany doesn't need to blow up this pipeline since it has been sure since Putin's illegal war, that NordStream 2 will never be activated and purchase of russian gas by NordStream 1 to Germany will stop as soon as possible. Germany has pushed very hard to get rid of russian gas and the pipeline has become basically irrelevant.
Why should they blow up the pipeline? Makes no sense at all.  

After USA tried to lobby against NordStream 2 for years with massive efforts but has been unsuccesful so far because surprisingly, Putin has been the one who made their mission succesful on February 24, when Putin invaded Ukraine and isolated Russia succesfully from the West.
Surely, the USA would blow up a useless pipeline which will never get activated because Putin finished this Job already on February 24.
Surely, the USA would risk the alliance by blowing up a useless pipeline from an allied state (Germany) while there's no need at all to take such a risky adventure (will never get activated).
Surely, the USA would only blow up 3 streams and 1 of them, especially from NordStream 2, will stay intact, so that Putin can still potentially send gas to Germany.  

According to some Kremlin trolls it can also be Ukraine. Maybe Ukraine rent a dolphin, a brave guy (Klitschko) with some dynamite swam on the back of the dolphin through Black Sea, Mediterranean Sea, half of the Atlantic, through the English Channel, past Denmark and Sweden just to the Baltic Sea to blow up the useless pipeline.
Surely, Ukraine would risk the support from the west for blowing up a useless pipeline...  

While Russia has a useless pipeline since German politicians have learned their lesson to abandon Putin and his gas. Since Putin invaded Ukraine, it was very clear that NordStream 2 would not be activated. While Putin continued his war crimes and now annexed 4 parts of Ukraine, it was very clear that Germany will stop purchasing Russian gas as soon as possible. Therefore, Putin run out of options what to do with his failed pipeling because Germany doesn't played his game and he looked bad.  
Surprinsingly, one Stream of NordStream 2 is still intact, leaving it open for Putin demanding Germany to open it.
Let me guess which stories are plausible and which not.  

But sure, the guy from Kremlin, who has lied basically every day, is not the one to blow up his useless pipeline and blame the west (as usual).
Idiots like you are his best asset - completely brainwashed...  

I don't even like ultra rights but any attempts at denying them sweeping EU is delusional, just as Putin destroying his own pipes to remove even a chance for the debates over turning on NS

You are delusional, same as Putin.  
Your dumb takes are embarassing.  

Don't believe i ever claimed that AfD still has it's original leadership or didn't become more radical/right since 2013. Great history, but how is that relevant to the current point or is it just a weak straw man attempt? Explain again how your (or mine or anyone for that matter) personal feeling are relevant here? Do you feel there are many sane people in Giorgia Meloni party? Does it somehow change the fact that she won and "current" AfD is getting more and more support currently sitting at 15%? Looks like they've been calling themselves Eurosceptic since 2013, and called for Dexit at least since 2019.

14 Apr 2013 The Guardian

Joachim Starbatty speaks out as breakaway Eurosceptic party Alternative für Deutschland holds founding conference
...
One of Germany's most eminent economists has called for the swift dissolution of the eurozone in its present form, arguing that the vision of a united Europe is in danger of imploding if debt-ridden countries are not shown the door.
...
Therefore it would be better if these countries that are not competitive, like Greece, Ireland, Spain, Italy, etc, were to leave." An alternative, he argued, would be for Germany to leave.
...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/14/german-economist-eurozone-eu

06.09.2013 Spiegel

Anti-Euro Party Surges Before Election
...
By sticking to its simple, euroskeptic line, the AfD has inhabited a gap in the political market.
...
When asked whether the anti-euro party could enter the Bundestag, Schöppner says: "That's impossible for me to say."

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/alternative-for-germany-anti-euro-party-could-upset-german-election-a-920805.html


13 Jan 2019 The Guardian

AfD party votes to campaign for German exit from EU
...
The decision on Sunday marks the first time any party has called for “Dexit” – a German departure from the EU in the mould of Brexit.
If the EU is not reshaped in line with the party’s ideas “in an appropriate timeframe”, Germany must leave the bloc, according to the draft manifesto for the forthcoming European parliament elections agreed by delegates at a party congress in the eastern state of Saxony.
...
Congress attendees also voted through a call to abolish the European parliament – the very body that AfD candidates will be campaigning to join this spring.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/afd-party-to-campaign-for-german-exit-from-european-union


"it was very clear that Germany will stop purchasing Russian gas as soon as possible."

super clear only you do realize it's "possible" for them to do so right this second if they wanted to, and what Ukraine is asking for. But we both know that there's a cost to that (lost jobs, bankrupt industries, loss to competitive advantage, inflation, other financial repercussion, social and political unrest etc etc etc...), and clearly so far Germany has decided that the cost of that outweighs the current benefits. When will the balance tip to closure who knows, but the other huge unknown is the weather. How long do you keep you industries running before cutting them off in order to build some buffer for home usage? Do you plan for an average winter? 3yr coldest? 5yr coldest? 10yr? What do you do if winter is unusually cold, or at least colder than you prepared for? What happens if you shut off gas for industrial use too soon and winter turns out to be mild?

All of your points rely on NordStream just being a useless pipeline, can you then explain the tweet by former Polish Deputy Minister of National Defense/Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and current elected member of the European parliament Radoslaw Sikorski thanking USA, is Poland supporting Russia now? NATO also seems to directly contradict your assumption that the pipeline was useless, instead calling it "critical infrastructure"

NATO Vows Retaliation for Attacks on Infrastructure
...
NATO vowed retaliation Thursday for attacks on the critical infrastructure of its 30 member nations, while strongly suggesting the rupture of two Baltic Sea pipelines meant to send natural gas from Russia to Germany was the direct result of sabotage.

Ambassadors to NATO, the West's key military alliance, said in a statement, "Any deliberate attack against allies' critical infrastructure would be met with a united and determined response." They said four ruptures in the pipelines were of "deep concern."

https://www.voanews.com/a/nato-vows-retaliation-for-attacks-on-infrastructure-blames-sabotage-for-pipe-blasts-/6769142.html

Finally, if Germany agrees to buy more RU gas this winter, can we all expect you to come back here, man up, and post admitting that you were wrong in your assumptions?

PS: It's really unfortunate that your parents haven't taught you good manners, and you fell the need to resort to ad hominem to strengthen your arguments which is just a sign of your weakness

We can't speek freely...noone can. We only differ about WHAT you can speak freely.

We all have the right to express ourselves freely. And you are doing so right now in this forum. However, every man's freedom ends where another man's freedom begins.
Freedom of speech does not include invoking violence and terrorism.

Great point, but now whoever gets to define "terrorists" gets to control freedom of speech. Don't like Assange/Snowden now to take their freedom of speech away all you have to do is just define them as terrorists


Iranians and Venezuelans are soon to become good guys too

[OutOfMemory]

Interesting, strategic economic blueprint of Russia:

1. collabs
2. collapse

Stage 2 is currently in the "colla" phase.
Either Russia is going to do something very clever (give in to the "West") or something very stupid. I'm biased by history, but i wonder if they can finally get something right for their nation.  

be.open not being drawn in because he's already serving the cybertroll army of mama RU.

EDIT: And don't forget to look at how well RU has fought this war already!

Putin's goals:

"De-Nazify" Ukraine: Failed
"Liberate" East Ukraine: Failing
Avoid general mobilisation: Failed
Divide the EU: Failed
Protect RU economical interests: Failed

The "Great Russian Army", a bunch of hungry retards who will die, desert, retreat or capitulate in the face of enemy fire.
Well, sane, normal people don't want to fight and die. They are currently forced to. This war is national murder and makes no sense. The great Nazi conspiracy spin of nationalist Russia will collapse, millions of people dreaming of a menaingful life will suffer for the great lunacy of their "leaders" (blenders).

Another expensive, brutal, inhuman fail.
Licking Xi's boots will likely be the biggest win.

I'm not a fanboy of any other regime, though. It's just that RU currently tries to become shithole regime no.1 of the modern world.

[Synchronice]

Putin isn't alone. He has loads of counselors who bring up ideas and who work to combine these ideas into different scenarios. The west is similar with their leaders.

Yes, and they communicate with super advanced technology, including push button telephone, I admit that it's more advanced than rotary dial telephone. Check the right corner on the image.


Also, his partner countries are so developed, all of his partner countries are free from corruption, free from nepotism with high quality of life, high safety index, etc.

Much of what is discussed has to do with what it might take to get somebody to use nukes, and how far they can be pushed before they DO use nukes.

We don't know the discussions going on about this whole thing. But the US and its allies seem to think that Russia won't use nukes. Why? Nobody knows, but there must be a reason why the US thinks it can continue to provoke Russia without getting nuked.

Or is that what the US wants... the Nukes to fly?

This is the moment when I partially agree with you. I don't know what makes USA to think that Russia won't use nukes. Putin was able to fuck with all local billionaires and businessmen and wage the war and he succeed, the ones who resisted, were "found" dead.
I hope not only Putin but everyone near him, including businessmen and people who want chill life, understand that their life will end even if they agree with Putin and it doesn't worth for Putin's goals.

[suchmoon]

I've been clearly spending too much time on the pro-Kremlin telegram channels, reading amazing stories from so-called voyenkors ("military reporters") and other putinists, and starting to notice a substantial shift recently in how they talk about the war. Early on obviously they were all optimistic and dismissive of Ukrainian resistance. Then came retreat from Kyiv and sinking of the flagship so there was some snarky grumbling but mostly it was still very positive. Now after the defeat near Kharkiv and mobilization failures there is something previously almost unheard of - direct criticism of military command (even Kadyrov joined in and called out some generals by name), admission of utter dysfunction and corruption in the armed forces and the need for (and improbability of) a comprehensive reform, and even discussions about the very slight possibility of defeat in the war (and yes, calling it a "war" and not "special operation" quite often too).

Obviously their conclusions - keep in mind that these are still diehard imperialists who don't think Ukraine has a right to exist - are still as irrational as ever, but the change in tone is quite remarkable. I think Putin has achieved the impossible and made even the most committed nutjobs doubt the whole shitshow.

Anyway, I won't bore you with the whole cringy "how could this possibly happen to the 2nd best army in the world" brawl. Just a few examples of ridiculous "solutions" they're coming up with. Textbook definition of insanity.

Gotta start everything over, this time it will be different:

Now we need to maintain the status quo. It is necessary to create a defense in depth in all the liberated territories. The task is to give three months for the preparation and education of the mobilized. In three months from defense it will be possible to go on the offensive for the utilization of Ukraine.

7 months into the war they're figuring out defense and motivation:

Better late than never, but we need to prepare front-line cities and towns for defense. Prepare for urban battles. Motivation is very important for urban battles. The commanders need to finally explain to their soldiers what the meaning of this war is. Explain that if you do not stop the enemy here and now, then he will have to be stopped on the threshold of their homes. And their cities can very quickly become front-line. And it's not about the Donbass or Ukraine. This war is more global and started many years ago by the West. Ukraine tricked but voluntarily agreed to become a battlefield between NATO and Russia. Either we will win on the territory of the former Ukraine, or we will have to win on the territory of Russia. Every fighter must understand this - he went to war so that the war itself would not come to his house.

Of course the naivete still exists, they still believe that Putin is not fighting with full force, so just needs to be asked nicely to step it up:

Hello.
Report to the top, if not difficult, about the targets for our strikes on Bandera:

1. District and regional departments of the SBU
2. District and regional military registration and enlistment offices.
3. District and regional departments of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
4. Bridges across the Dnieper and the railway tunnel in the Carpathians
5. CHP and substations (all regional and district centers)
6. All railway depots, diesel locomotives and electric locomotives. They need to be eliminated as a class.
7. Fuel trucks. Geranium [Iranian drones] should work on them on an ongoing basis.

There are 136 regional centers in Ukraine, multiply by 4 (these are points 1,2,3,5) and we get about 600 rockets and Geraniums (together with regional centers)
The strikes must be carried out during working hours in order to eliminate all the security forces.
Thanks

But let's give them a few more months and I think they'll be discussing the amount of reparations and how to negotiate a shorter prison sentence.

[Branko]

Putin isn't alone. He has loads of counselors who bring up ideas and who work to combine these ideas into different scenarios. The west is similar with their leaders.

Yes, and they communicate with super advanced technology, including push button telephone, I admit that it's more advanced than rotary dial telephone. Check the right corner on the image.


Also, his partner countries are so developed, all of his partner countries are free from corruption, free from nepotism with high quality of life, high safety index, etc.

Much of what is discussed has to do with what it might take to get somebody to use nukes, and how far they can be pushed before they DO use nukes.

We don't know the discussions going on about this whole thing. But the US and its allies seem to think that Russia won't use nukes. Why? Nobody knows, but there must be a reason why the US thinks it can continue to provoke Russia without getting nuked.

Or is that what the US wants... the Nukes to fly?

This is the moment when I partially agree with you. I don't know what makes USA to think that Russia won't use nukes. Putin was able to fuck with all local billionaires and businessmen and wage the war and he succeed, the ones who resisted, were "found" dead.
I hope not only Putin but everyone near him, including businessmen and people who want chill life, understand that their life will end even if they agree with Putin and it doesn't worth for Putin's goals.

https://www.electrospaces.net/2021/01/the-phones-in-president-bidens-oval.html

[suchmoon]

Don't believe i ever claimed that AfD still has it's original leadership or didn't become more radical/right since 2013. Great history, but how is that relevant to the current point or is it just a weak straw man attempt? Explain again how your (or mine or anyone for that matter) personal feeling are relevant here? Do you feel there are many sane people in Giorgia Meloni party? Does it somehow change the fact that she won and "current" AfD is getting more and more support currently sitting at 15%? Looks like they've been calling themselves Eurosceptic since 2013, and called for Dexit at least since 2019.

[...]

super clear only you do realize it's "possible" for them to do so right this second if they wanted to, and what Ukraine is asking for. But we both know that there's a cost to that (lost jobs, bankrupt industries, loss to competitive advantage, inflation, other financial repercussion, social and political unrest etc etc etc...), and clearly so far Germany has decided that the cost of that outweighs the current benefits. When will the balance tip to closure who knows, but the other huge unknown is the weather. How long do you keep you industries running before cutting them off in order to build some buffer for home usage? Do you plan for an average winter? 3yr coldest? 5yr coldest? 10yr? What do you do if winter is unusually cold, or at least colder than you prepared for? What happens if you shut off gas for industrial use too soon and winter turns out to be mild?

All well-rehearsed Kremlin bullet points, except most people in Germany don't fall for that BS and tend to think increasingly more like 1miau, who happens to be from Germany, I mean what a shocking turn of events this is not.



(the poll question is "should we support Ukraine despite rising energy costs")

All of your points rely on NordStream just being a useless pipeline, can you then explain the tweet by former Polish Deputy Minister of National Defense/Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and current elected member of the European parliament Radoslaw Sikorski thanking USA, is Poland supporting Russia now?

Still not getting how the whole freedom of speech / democracy thing works, are you? Hint: in normal non-Putin countries people, even MEPs, often have differing opinions, make stupid jokes, or could simply be wrong.

[1miau]

Looks like they've been calling themselves Eurosceptic since 2013, and called for Dexit at least since 2019.

14 Apr 2013 The Guardian

Joachim Starbatty speaks out as breakaway Eurosceptic party Alternative für Deutschland holds founding conference
...
One of Germany's most eminent economists has called for the swift dissolution of the eurozone in its present form, arguing that the vision of a united Europe is in danger of imploding if debt-ridden countries are not shown the door.
...
Therefore it would be better if these countries that are not competitive, like Greece, Ireland, Spain, Italy, etc, were to leave." An alternative, he argued, would be for Germany to leave.
...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/14/german-economist-eurozone-eu

06.09.2013 Spiegel

Anti-Euro Party Surges Before Election
...
By sticking to its simple, euroskeptic line, the AfD has inhabited a gap in the political market.
...
When asked whether the anti-euro party could enter the Bundestag, Schöppner says: "That's impossible for me to say."

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/alternative-for-germany-anti-euro-party-could-upset-german-election-a-920805.html

You are making that mistake again: one or even a few people in a party demanding one thing isn’t the party line at all.  
If you think AfD has been of one and the same opinion in 2013, you are misguided. Even the fascist Bernd Höcke has been into AfD in 2013. But politicians demanding to break away from the EU / supporting far right propaganda were a minority back then and their opinions weren’t the party line back then. The party line in 2013 was to reform the EU, not leave it. 
The party line later shifted to abolish the EU, but that wasn’t the party line in 2013.
In addition: Eurosceptic ≠ Break away from the EU
Eurosceptic: sceptical of how Euro is managed by ECB, sceptical how the European Parliament is making politics, sceptical how Germany was paying money to Italy / Greece....
Things are much more nuanced than in your limited world view.

13 Jan 2019 The Guardian

AfD party votes to campaign for German exit from EU
...
The decision on Sunday marks the first time any party has called for “Dexit” – a German departure from the EU in the mould of Brexit.
If the EU is not reshaped in line with the party’s ideas “in an appropriate timeframe”, Germany must leave the bloc, according to the draft manifesto for the forthcoming European parliament elections agreed by delegates at a party congress in the eastern state of Saxony.
...
Congress attendees also voted through a call to abolish the European parliament – the very body that AfD candidates will be campaigning to join this spring.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/afd-party-to-campaign-for-german-exit-from-european-union

Exactly, 2019, the party line was to abolish the EU.
2013 ≠ 2019

NATO Vows Retaliation for Attacks on Infrastructure
...
NATO vowed retaliation Thursday for attacks on the critical infrastructure of its 30 member nations, while strongly suggesting the rupture of two Baltic Sea pipelines meant to send natural gas from Russia to Germany was the direct result of sabotage.

Ambassadors to NATO, the West's key military alliance, said in a statement, "Any deliberate attack against allies' critical infrastructure would be met with a united and determined response." They said four ruptures in the pipelines were of "deep concern."

https://www.voanews.com/a/nato-vows-retaliation-for-attacks-on-infrastructure-blames-sabotage-for-pipe-blasts-/6769142.html

First thing: it's a general comment on critical NATO infrastructure of its 30 member nations.
Second thing: attacking NATO infrastructure should not be accepted at all and it doesn't matter if it's obsolete soon or newly build (or both  ).

[suchmoon]

Rumor has it (via Girkin-Strelkov, the KGBist who incited the whole Donbas shitshow in 2014) that the first act of the "new" Russian Federation authorities in the town of Svatove was to order "self-evacuation". Apparently the town is next to fall in the Kharkov-Lugansk Ukrainian counteroffensive area. The fake RF is shrinking, perhaps due to cold weather.


(map from https://liveuamap.com)

[bitgov]

Iranians and Venezuelans are soon to become good guys too

You made a valid point here - one country freedom fighter is other country traiter
Earlier when Afghans were fighting USSR they were freedom fighters when they started fighting USA they were terrorist
But one thing is for sure - Afghan kicked both the super power out from their country

[Desmong]

Iranians and Venezuelans are soon to become good guys too

You made a valid point here - one country freedom fighter is other country traiter
Earlier when Afghans were fighting USSR they were freedom fighters when they started fighting USA they were terrorist
But one thing is for sure - Afghan kicked both the super power out from their country

War is something we can not justify and we need to stop seeing things from the normal perspectives. War is bad and we had see so many wars from different region and we all know some of the outcome which may take long years to be replaced and balance something. With all these wars in the world is still no peace for everyone of us which is why we need to make strict law to eneble every countries to follow.

[paxmao]

...


December is only 2 months away, if the political will to buy RU gas will build up come winter but now Germany will be forced to buy RU gas through Ukraine, will you admit then that you were wrong in your assessment and that it definitely would've been much easier if Germany could arrange for deliveries through NS directly without involving UA?

But then again your covered yourself nicely with assertion of RU acting in irrational manner. That's a nice cover to literally explain any and all possible actions that disadvantage RU as doing of RU itself...

...

You need to read more carefully - in what you or I would think is irrational. The Mafia world has its own rules.

No, if Germany buys gas from RF through any means that Adolf Putin is desperate enough to sell gas to EU - nothing else - it makes no difference to the point.

If Ukraine falls under the influence of the Orcs Adolf holds the key, if not Ukraine is a partner in the EU. In any of those cases, Germany should have learnt the lesson and have a plan B in the future to avoid being blackmailed by RF or, if it really should come to it in a million years, by Ukraine.

Germany has made a mistake when appreciating the real control and reliability of Adolf Putin as a commercial partner. They should know better in the future, even if they decide to keep using cheap RF gas, they will need the plan B and a progressive energetic transition (which is anyway needed).