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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1342471 times)
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July 15, 2014, 05:59:09 AM
 #9461

Wow, Patrick, you really did it. You did a rollback of the blockchain and wrote history with it. Everyone with knowledge about cryptos knows that their were a couple of other options to save the coin (e.g. removing the stolen coins from the supply), but you chose to bail out mintpal. You even were offered support for fixing the issue in a reasonable way, but still you used your honorable achieved credibility to break a fundamental rule. Its a sad day in crypto, especially since this wasn't a scam coin but a serious crypto project.

This move will never be forgotten. To the community, if you all trust a single dev so much, here is the perfect solution for you: Fork again and increase the supply such that pnosker owns 50% of all coins which he should never spend on anything and only use for staking. You will be save, forever! Have a good life.

Crypto history has been made...VERIcoin pulls a 2008. AIG (I mean MP) was "too big to fail"...

Mintpal was too big to fail. lol AIG bail out ...Bernanke Style

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July 15, 2014, 05:59:48 AM
 #9462

Wow, Patrick, you really did it. You did a rollback of the blockchain and wrote history with it. Everyone with knowledge about cryptos knows that their were a couple of other options to save the coin (e.g. removing the stolen coins from the supply), but you chose to bail out mintpal. You even were offered support for fixing the issue in a reasonable way, but still you used your honorable achieved credibility to break a fundamental rule. Its a sad day in crypto, especially since this wasn't a scam coin but a serious crypto project.

This move will never be forgotten. To the community, if you all trust a single dev so much, here is the perfect solution for you: Fork again and increase the supply such that pnosker owns 50% of all coins which he should never spend on anything and only use for staking. You will be save, forever! Have a good life.

i think the bold part needs more explanation, what other options were passed up on?

The option to burn all the stolen coins and leave mintpal owing to the users for one.

$2 million dollars worth of coin that users would probably never see back from Mintpal, as who knows how they would have even handled that.  I'm guessing shutting down and giving their user base refunds of a percentage of the amount of coins they actually had in the exchange, thus fucking over users of many altcoins.    

OR..

the choice they did make, rollback, the hacker does not make off with $2 million dollars worth of coin and $4000 dollars worth of VRC transactions get messed up (so far the only negative I have seen as part of this situation.. other than FUD/ignorance/disagreement posts).

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July 15, 2014, 06:00:05 AM
 #9463

Where 1.3.3 ?

Please give download link.

i downloaded mine from vericoin.info site. perhaps, clear you cache?
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July 15, 2014, 06:01:56 AM
 #9464

Actually I didn't, I quoted his entire post.

Just another thing we will just have to agree to disagree on Smiley

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July 15, 2014, 06:02:04 AM
 #9465

but you chose to bail out mintpal.
The devs chose to not have early users of Vericoin have their coin stolen.

The devs chose to act as a central banker would.

ANTI-CRYPTO is what Vericoin is.

Vericoin is the Paypal of Crypto.

Vericoin devs = Ben Bernanke!



FIAT monetary systems cannot be directly compared to crypto. They have similarities, but are still two different worlds. More importantly the devs were forced into a corner. The only other option was to leave the chain as is and allow one individual to have 8M coins. If that person were to stake 8M coins, they would then control the chain and can double-spend (51% attack). VRC would be dead.

I don't think you're considering the entire situation.

Yes they can both be compared to each other.

When a Crypto coin like Vericoin decides (through its developers) to roll back the block chain because an incompetent exchange (Mintpal) fucked up on its security procedures you can find similarities in the two.

The Federal Reserve bailed out Big banks that made bad decisions in 2008.

Mintpal made a bad decision to keep MOST of its users' VRC holding in their hot wallet. The VRC devs bailed out Mintpail.

The principal is the same.

VRC users may as well use the legacy banking system or PayPal. There is no difference in principal.

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July 15, 2014, 06:02:16 AM
 #9466

Everyone with knowledge about cryptos knows that their were a couple of other options to save the coin (e.g. removing the stolen coins from the supply), but you chose to bail out mintpal.

30% of Vericoin holders had their investment preserved is what happened.

Quote
to break a fundamental rule.

What is this? the Torah? Even the Jews break their laws. Did you read this thing. Fuck your archaic rules. 30% of Vericoin holders just don't feel like having to deal with the tyranny of these rules.


Quote
Its a sad day in crypto,

Oh poor you, poor baby, you want mommy to make it all better for you?

Quote
especially since this wasn't a scam coin but a serious crypto project.

Saving 30% of Vericoin users was the serious thing to do. Suicide for some silly rule is not serious. It's giving up.

Quote
This move will never be forgotten.

Yes, Vericoin made history, and it's only in 14th place in market cap. It's going up.


It was possible to write a fork that preserves the money without making a full roll back of the blockchain. Its technically slightly more difficult, but achievable, and you would know how if you would spend more time understanding this technology instead of doing price talk all day which makes crypto look like ponzi schemes. Have fun with your market cap so you can cash out at some day into fiat because you are not interested at all in creating an international currency.

Sorry but I fail to get your point... "Have fun with your market cap so you can cash out at some day into fiat because you are not interested at all in creating an international currency." Have someone made a vested promise to create "an international currency"? They have created ALREADY, a crypto currency that, by definition, is international. It is DONE. You can trade it. You can buy stuff with it... And there's a lot of people that want to remain invested (and staking) for a long time in hopes the value gets much higher, yes (your "market cap"). Many others, want to trade it for a double, a triple... or just 20/30% at a time. Anything specifically wrong with any of this?

Like I said, I fail to see where you could possibly be going...
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July 15, 2014, 06:02:41 AM
 #9467

Where 1.3.3 ?

Please give download link.

i downloaded mine from vericoin.info site. perhaps, clear you cache?

Or open site in different browser and try again

I got 1.3.3 from official site fine.

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July 15, 2014, 06:05:04 AM
 #9468

Wow, Patrick, you really did it. You did a rollback of the blockchain and wrote history with it. Everyone with knowledge about cryptos knows that their were a couple of other options to save the coin (e.g. removing the stolen coins from the supply), but you chose to bail out mintpal. You even were offered support for fixing the issue in a reasonable way, but still you used your honorable achieved credibility to break a fundamental rule. Its a sad day in crypto, especially since this wasn't a scam coin but a serious crypto project.

This move will never be forgotten. To the community, if you all trust a single dev so much, here is the perfect solution for you: Fork again and increase the supply such that pnosker owns 50% of all coins which he should never spend on anything and only use for staking. You will be save, forever! Have a good life.

i think the bold part needs more explanation, what other options were passed up on?

The option to burn all the stolen coins and leave mintpal owing to the users for one.

$2 million dollars worth of coin that users would probably never see back from Mintpal, as who knows how they would have even handled that.  I'm guessing shutting down and giving their user base refunds of a percentage of the amount of coins they actually had in the exchange, thus fucking over users of many altcoins.    

OR..

the choice they did make, rollback, the hacker does not make off with $2 million dollars worth of coin and $4000 dollars worth of VRC transactions get messed up (so far the only negative I have seen as part of this situation.. other than FUD/ignorance/disagreement posts).

If you were dumb enough to trust an incompetent exchange (whether you knew or not ahead of time...as there is always risk with 3rd parties) you deserve to lose your coins should that 3rd party fuck up on their responsibilities.

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
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July 15, 2014, 06:05:08 AM
 #9469

Mintpal made a bad decision to keep MOST of its users' VRC holding in their hot wallet. The VRC devs bailed out Mintpail.

The principal is the same.

Such silly smoothie posts Roll Eyes

Mintpal got lucky that Vericoin is early on enough and the devs wanted the users to not be fucked over in this case.

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July 15, 2014, 06:05:40 AM
 #9470

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.


there is no consensus... you either use the new wallet or you get shut out of any future updates and shutout of the exchanges and any other vericoin services. That is the reality of the situation.

Even if you completely disagreed with the rollback the choice was already made for you.

In order to save the coin a precedent was set... now it only remains to be seen how many more times choices will be made for the community instead of by the community.

You are not entirely correct -because there have been some kid -of-similar "precedents" in several cryptos, including BTC.

But since VRC has been a first (and setting some much clearer precedents) in several other things of much higher importance, I don't see any problem at all in either the "precedent" of even the potential recurrence of the "precedent"... if circumstances warrant it.

I believe it is quite clear the community at large, in overwhelming numbers, are behind the dev team. In this "precedent" action and, above all, in the many others set already. Other than the thieves, who are evidently posting here BS non-stop, and more than a few so-called "purists", the vast majority, by like 80% of all stake holders, are not just supportive but extremely supportive -to ridiculous extents, admittedly, in some cases-, of a dev team and a dev team's decisions that are simply quite different from  the shameful actions of most individuals in crypto, an underworld permanently tainted by fraud and thievery... which, openly and to the point of bragging, peculiarly, those so-called "purists" support. Blatantly. Openly.

Well, get this: VRC is a very young coin, obviously experiencing some growing pains or just some growing. Exceptional growing, by any measure, by the way. And it is indeed setting a lot of precedents. This last one establishes, no more no less that the bad guys don't get away with their thievery. Again, that is rising the bar to a new level. And, guess what, the community  supports that. Guess what else: The people outside of the community, supports that too (they, mind you, don't live in a world where criminal acts not only are not accountable, but even bragged about). So the message of it all is clear: The times of the bad guys hidden under anonymous handles is soon to be over. The time of the wild west is coming to a close in crypto. Fast. The bad guys won't be rewarded (and, soon, will be direly punished). So the precedent is of some significance for either VRC will thrive because of this or will die because no new investors/users will come to participate and the community's faith will start to deteriorate in a hurry.

No one knows, for sure, the exact repercussions. But these guys (the devs) are indeed the good guys of crypto after the several precedents, including this one. I am betting that the support will continue and grow significantly in weeks, months and years to come, precisely for that.  

+1 amen to that.. a holistic (and realistic) view that's what some of us are lacking..

I get it and I admire your guys passion and dedication.  But I believe you are missing a valid point, an EXCHANGE, (yes just one exchange who will probably be gone in a year or 2) was lax on security, so in order to save said exchange's financial losses you hardfork the coin.  That makes me sick honestly.  I know alot of you have vested interest in the coin, but man this isn't what crypto is about.
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July 15, 2014, 06:06:35 AM
 #9471

If you were dumb enough to trust an incompetent exchange (whether you knew or not ahead of time...as there is always risk with 3rd parties) you deserve to lose your coins should that 3rd party fuck up on their responsibilities.


If crypto goes mainstream, your way of thinking will not survive.

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July 15, 2014, 06:07:06 AM
 #9472

Mintpal made a bad decision to keep MOST of its users' VRC holding in their hot wallet. The VRC devs bailed out Mintpail.

The principal is the same.

Such silly smoothie posts Roll Eyes

Mintpal got lucky that Vericoin is early on enough and the devs wanted the users to not be fucked over in this case.

So it is what the devs want. I got it.

Now we can both agree VRC operates as a dictatorship much like the Federal Reserve System. Thank you for clarifying that.

And no there isn't anything silly about my posts. They are the facts.

Facts seem silly to people who don't want to view the truth for what it is and prefer to be in denial.

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July 15, 2014, 06:07:09 AM
 #9473

All you fud'ers are treating the information at hand like a religious extremist. Picking and choosing only the info that matches your viewpoints, and completely disregarding everything else. Pathetic. Thank god there's an ignore button!
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July 15, 2014, 06:07:22 AM
 #9474

I downloaded 1.3.3 (v1.3.3.0-g32a928e) and it has been non stop trying to sync.  Any nodes i can add or any fix?

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July 15, 2014, 06:07:25 AM
 #9475

If you were dumb enough to trust an incompetent exchange (whether you knew or not ahead of time...as there is always risk with 3rd parties) you deserve to lose your coins should that 3rd party fuck up on their responsibilities.
I actually agree with you, but not at the cost of the failure of the coin itself (thus effecting all users of the coin, not just the ones using Mintpal).   Vericoin devs chose to save the coin from one user controlling too much as well as hopefully teach a huge lesson to all the users not to keep their coins on an exchange like that.

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July 15, 2014, 06:08:20 AM
 #9476

If you were dumb enough to trust an incompetent exchange (whether you knew or not ahead of time...as there is always risk with 3rd parties) you deserve to lose your coins should that 3rd party fuck up on their responsibilities.


If crypto goes mainstream, your way of thinking will not survive.



Crypto will go mainstream and his way of thinking will not only survive but will flourish!
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July 15, 2014, 06:08:40 AM
 #9477

It was possible to write a fork that preserves the money without making a full roll back of the blockchain. Its technically slightly more difficult, but achievable, and you would know how if you would spend more time understanding this technology instead of doing price talk all day which makes crypto look like ponzi schemes. Have fun with your market cap so you can cash out at some day into fiat because you are not interested at all in creating an international currency.

Sorry but I fail to get your point... "Have fun with your market cap so you can cash out at some day into fiat because you are not interested at all in creating an international currency." Have someone made a vested promise to create "an international currency"? They have created ALREADY, a crypto currency that, by definition, is international. It is DONE. You can trade it. You can buy stuff with it... And there's a lot of people that want to remain invested (and staking) for a long time in hopes the value gets much higher, yes (your "market cap"). Many others, want to trade it for a double, a triple... or just 20/30% at a time. Anything specifically wrong with any of this?

Like I said, I fail to see where you could possibly be going...


You can also use USD everywhere on the world, as long as the counterparty accepts it, but this doesn't make it an international currency. A currency for the whole world is only possible if no single nation or small group of people is able to manipulate it. It has to be trustless.
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July 15, 2014, 06:08:55 AM
 #9478

I get it and I admire your guys passion and dedication.  But I believe you are missing a valid point, an EXCHANGE, (yes just one exchange who will probably be gone in a year or 2) was lax on security, so in order to save said exchange's financial losses you hardfork the coin.  That makes me sick honestly.  I know alot of you have vested interest in the coin, but man this isn't what crypto is about.

Yes, we all agree Vericoin is a game changer Smiley

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July 15, 2014, 06:09:20 AM
 #9479

If you were dumb enough to trust an incompetent exchange (whether you knew or not ahead of time...as there is always risk with 3rd parties) you deserve to lose your coins should that 3rd party fuck up on their responsibilities.


If crypto goes mainstream, your way of thinking will not survive.



Well that is a big IF.

Currently there are avenues for crypto businesses not to be regulated if they so chose and would not need to go mainstream. But with any 3rd party there is risk. Get that through your head.

Just look at BTC-e they are anonymous and yet they run a pretty decent exchange.

My thinking has kept me from getting scammed, hacked, and swindled out of my coin holdings for 3 years now. You are preaching to the Choir.

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July 15, 2014, 06:10:09 AM
 #9480

Gonna go on a flier here and say Smoothie isn't randomly fudding an alt coin and has valid points.  Just saying that the you guys could not have made a worst decision in my opinion.
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