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Question: Where would you prefer the VRC/VRM exchange pair be?
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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1346448 times)
dotnetmin
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July 16, 2014, 09:50:42 AM
 #10021

Here could have been even inside deal between Mintpal and VRC dev and you won't never know about it...


Yup, you're an idiot. Mintpal gained absolutely nothing from this ordeal.



You're calling others an idiot and you can't imagine what happens to mint loosing 8,000,000 veri. Huh


Mint becomes insolvent, people panic with mass withdrawals, mintpal stops withdrawals, gox 2.0 happens...  Grin

Thanks for simple explanation.
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mrkavasaki
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July 16, 2014, 09:52:33 AM
 #10022

it does not matter if you trade on cryptsy,minpal or what else....all could be hacked!!
what crypto need is an decentralized exchanger like halo Wink and thats why backcoin is the future Cool
MikeMike
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July 16, 2014, 09:55:28 AM
 #10023

Here could have been even inside deal between Mintpal and VRC dev and you won't never know about it...


Yup, you're an idiot. Mintpal gained absolutely nothing from this ordeal.



You're calling others an idiot and you can't imagine what happens to mint loosing 8,000,000 veri. Huh


Mint becomes insolvent, people panic with mass withdrawals, mintpal stops withdrawals, gox 2.0 happens...  Grin

Thanks for simple explanation.

Fact is right now nobody knows.

It could have been a bankster/FED scheme using someone on the inside they had charges to blackmail them with.
All done to try to cause panic in the CC's.

Meanwhile banksters literally get away with Murder, Terrorist & Murderous Drug Lord Money Laundering,
Fomenting War on a Global Scale and collapsing the entire World Economy while raping and pillaging
entire Countries and peoples wealth.



It might be good to keep things into perspective.

The Hard Fork was CC's Extremely Effective Community Effort to Provide an FDIC type Insurance
AND there will be Innovations to come...

CodeHunter
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July 16, 2014, 09:55:41 AM
 #10024


blackcoin is dead.

dotnetmin
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July 16, 2014, 09:58:02 AM
 #10025


blackcoin is dead.


And you are ignorant and now ignored
btminer8
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July 16, 2014, 09:58:07 AM
 #10026

it does not matter if you trade on cryptsy,minpal or what else....all could be hacked!!
what crypto need is an decentralized exchanger like halo Wink and thats why backcoin is the future Cool

I know Bithalo, amazing technology. But i never heard of backcoin.  Huh

And by looking at your post history, it seems that you made this account to specifically troll vericoin. "please wait until mintpal releases verishits again" Is that what you can offer? Come on
XbladeX
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July 16, 2014, 10:00:43 AM
 #10027

...
Good and valid reasons.

What about the thief? Would it motivate more hackers to do it if they can always get away with it? Would this defer people from investing in crypto?


Problem with thief is that you and me, we can not be sure if that was real thief or just stupid system bug.
Usually when such attack are there are dumps to 1sat ( WC 2x spend attack )...
Why only VRC was affected while BTC LTC was in cold wallet...
All loks more like inside bug of Mintpal  system than any theft for me.

We will never know if that was real thief or some inside mintpal altercation...
Once on poloniex was sold stolen (300 000) DRK for 5000sat coin recovered in 4 months getting 500x.
Same was with Gox and BTC when 10% of BTC was stolen.
Thefts can't kill good coin.
Reputation is much harder to get back.

PS: BTW Whales are same kind of thief's they pump coin and go away with BTC look at Doge manipulation to 300sat they never invest in any coin for real.
they want pump it and leave it after dump naive investors are burned. To many things re manipulated in crypto from price to announcements.


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VerilyVerily
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July 16, 2014, 10:02:37 AM
 #10028

 Smiley!Hello! Smiley

All FUD is envy when the Nosker save coin with use only fork and rocket bag   Cheesy Will live the coin! Will live the Nosker!   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

http://s29.postimg.org/ljnz6kr5f/jetpack.jpg
mrkavasaki
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July 16, 2014, 10:04:43 AM
 #10029

it does not matter if you trade on cryptsy,minpal or what else....all could be hacked!!
what crypto need is an decentralized exchanger like halo Wink and thats why backcoin is the future Cool

I know Bithalo, amazing technology. But i never heard of backcoin.  Huh

And by looking at your post history, it seems that you made this account to specifically troll vericoin. "please wait until mintpal releases verishits again" Is that what you can offer? Come on





i think you are very ingnorant

bithalo and blackhalo was created by an blackcoin developer Wink
dotnetmin
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July 16, 2014, 10:05:19 AM
 #10030

...
Good and valid reasons.

What about the thief? Would it motivate more hackers to do it if they can always get away with it? Would this defer people from investing in crypto?


Problem with thief is that you and me, we can not be sure if that was real thief or just stupid system bug.
Usually when such attack are there are dumps to 1sat ( WC 2x spend attack )...
Why only VRC was affected while BTC LTC was in cold wallet...
All loks more like inside bug of Mintpal  system than any theft for me.

We will never know if that was real thief or some inside mintpal altercation...
Once on poloniex was sold stolen (300 000) DRK for 5000sat coin recovered in 4 months getting 500x.
Same was with Gox and BTC when 10% of BTC was stolen.
Thefts can't kill good coin.
Reputation is much harder to get back.

PS: BTW Whales are same kind of thief's they pump coin and go away with BTC look at Doge manipulation to 300sat they never invest in any coin for real.
they want pump it and leave it after dump. To many things re manipulated in crypto from price to announcements.



So that is why crypto never will become a real investment. It's only a lottery, even if coin is a very good project.
Because of this i am short before the decission to go out of any crypto completly.
Fippy
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July 16, 2014, 10:07:58 AM
 #10031

Well, we're pretty well past this entire ordeal and the price is still holding north of 30k satoshi, despite three days of people predicting Vericoin's demise.

I really don't think it takes a doctorate in psychology to realize that the people still posting the "Vericoin is dead" crap in this thread have an ulterior motive.
kicker
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July 16, 2014, 10:09:57 AM
 #10032

How many rollbacks weve got?

Some coins are double spend (it was possible for me)

After the first rollback.
Withdraw MP -> sold on another exchange for btc. Transfered it to my wallet.

2nd rollback.
Got again my vrc coins at MP. Withdraw it and can sell it again on an exchange.


It was not my intention. Just sold it and again got my previous VRC coins on MP.

Profetu
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July 16, 2014, 10:10:17 AM
 #10033

What is it with blackcoin people and this thread? Each time I see someone troll vrc, they have a blackcoin sig.
Where do all you dummies come from? blackcoin is dead.
Anyways, it's the investors that lose money that usually find the passion to troll another thread related to their competitor.

I have 20+ diffrent crypto...from BTC, Doge, ANC ,BC, PPC, NEM....Bitshares like many people here,
rollback hurted all crypto not just one coin.

If not VRC it will be next coin like XC Clokac Cinni Voot.... INSERT name here another hype coin.

The reason i write here is simple all crypto was damaged...
and all POS coins mostly suffers by that rollback

Mainly it was Mintpal problem but full responsibility is not on Mintpal side
1/3 of all coins were deposited in one place - that is orgin of problem.

Give me 3 good reasons why all crypto was damaged.

- Merchants can be aware because transaction can be reversed in some emergency situation so better not trust new alts and stick with BTC
which can take 500m $ loss  (it breaks some trust rule )

- Bad exchange has not been punishment ( normally it can lead to MtGox 2.0 and collapse... )

- Shows how easy is "manipulate" people in crypto devlopers, Exchanges.
Real truth can be unknown forever. Did MtGox write truth before they collapsed? ( they lied till end... CR lied till end... )
Here could have been even inside deal between Mintpal and VRC dev and you won't never know about it...

Good and valid reasons.

What about the thief? Would it motivate more hackers to do it if they can always get away with it? Would this defer people from investing in crypto?


I beg to differ. Awful "reasons"

-"Merchants can be aware because transaction can be reversed in some emergency situation" when there is a party responsible that reimburses everyone affected. Way better than knowing the coin could die in case of a major attack.

-"Bad exchange has not been punishment" What are we? Religious people that fear the wrong doers will remain unpunished? There is no middle ground: they either loose 2 million and maybe go bust or they lose few money. They could though offer devs a bonus for their hard work and invest more money in security and audits.

- "Shows how easy is "manipulate" people in crypto devlopers, Exchanges." This was a clean "cut rollback" where the stolen coins were returned and everyone affected will be reimbursed. Way batter than creating an ice age where Mintpal goes bust or has to seize 20% of peoples money (I bet people would have loved this) to pay the debt like Polo did. Also you could have stayed on the old chain and buy coins from the hackers. Tongue

All alts are work in progress and since only a small group of people are developing the coins they are centralized from this point of view. At least for now.

What if? is all I hear..if there were 500k coins stolen most likely they wouldn't roll back. If 100k transactions happened in between they wouldn't roll back. If no entity was at fault or willing to reimburse people they wouldn't roll back.

I think it turned out to be a good decision considering the circumstances.
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July 16, 2014, 10:16:20 AM
 #10034

I can't withdraw my coins from mintpal. It says that status is confirmed but it is like that for few hours now. Did anyone managed to withdraw VRC from mintpal yet.

Reavon
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July 16, 2014, 10:16:34 AM
 #10035

What is it with blackcoin people and this thread? Each time I see someone troll vrc, they have a blackcoin sig.
Where do all you dummies come from? blackcoin is dead.
Anyways, it's the investors that lose money that usually find the passion to troll another thread related to their competitor.

I have 20+ diffrent crypto...from BTC, Doge, ANC ,BC, PPC, NEM....Bitshares like many people here,
rollback hurted all crypto not just one coin.

If not VRC it will be next coin like XC Clokac Cinni Voot.... INSERT name here another hype coin.

The reason i write here is simple all crypto was damaged...
and all POS coins mostly suffers by that rollback

Mainly it was Mintpal problem but full responsibility is not on Mintpal side
1/3 of all coins were deposited in one place - that is orgin of problem.

Give me 3 good reasons why all crypto was damaged.

- Merchants can be aware because transaction can be reversed in some emergency situation so better not trust new alts and stick with BTC
which can take 500m $ loss  (it breaks some trust rule )

- Bad exchange has not been punishment ( normally it can lead to MtGox 2.0 and collapse... )

- Shows how easy is "manipulate" people in crypto devlopers, Exchanges.
Real truth can be unknown forever. Did MtGox write truth before they collapsed? ( they lied till end... CR lied till end... )
Here could have been even inside deal between Mintpal and VRC dev and you won't never know about it...

Inside deal?...  Dude Satoshi gave us the block chains we can see a "deal"  in the block chain.  All you need is to read the block chain.  And I don't see a "deal"  in the block chain.  If you find one show it to us and we can discuss about it.
Unless you don't prove such "deal"  I will assume you are suffering from to less social attention and talking garbage.
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July 16, 2014, 10:18:32 AM
 #10036

...
Good and valid reasons.

What about the thief? Would it motivate more hackers to do it if they can always get away with it? Would this defer people from investing in crypto?


Problem with thief is that you and me, we can not be sure if that was real thief or just stupid system bug.
Usually when such attack are there are dumps to 1sat ( WC 2x spend attack )...
Why only VRC was affected while BTC LTC was in cold wallet...
All loks more like inside bug of Mintpal  system than any theft for me.

We will never know if that was real thief or some inside mintpal altercation...
Once on poloniex was sold stolen (300 000) DRK for 5000sat coin recovered in 4 months getting 500x.
Same was with Gox and BTC when 10% of BTC was stolen.
Thefts can't kill good coin.
Reputation is much harder to get back.

PS: BTW Whales are same kind of thief's they pump coin and go away with BTC look at Doge manipulation to 300sat they never invest in any coin for real.
they want pump it and leave it after dump naive investors are burned. To many things re manipulated in crypto from price to announcements.



Agree that we are not sure is it a thief or system bug. Mintpal needs to be transparent about the nature of the hack & it's vulnerability.

"Thefts can't kill good coin."

I have to disagree with this. 30% of the coin supply is more then enough to do a 51% attack. Hardfork is a very difficult decision but a necessary one to save the coin. Damage was minimized. It is a win/win situation except the hacker.


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July 16, 2014, 10:25:32 AM
 #10037

I can't withdraw my coins from mintpal. It says that status is confirmed but it is like that for few hours now. Did anyone managed to withdraw VRC from mintpal yet.

Yes and hour ago. And it takes 2 hours. (manual withdraw)
btminer8
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July 16, 2014, 10:29:06 AM
 #10038

It is not like the developer team decided to hardfork the blockchain for personal gain.

Let's imagine a scenario when the developer team or a government did it for personal gain or political reasons. What would be the consequence?

What would you do if you own that coin?

Would the majority refuse to update the wallet?

Would a group of people to come forth and take over the development of the coin?

This is the nature and beauty of decentralised & open source network.

If you try to dictate and insist what a coin should do or not do, isn't that contradicting?
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July 16, 2014, 10:30:14 AM
 #10039

I can't withdraw my coins from mintpal. It says that status is confirmed but it is like that for few hours now. Did anyone managed to withdraw VRC from mintpal yet.

Yes and hour ago. And it takes 2 hours. (manual withdraw)
ok tnx, I set only few VRC to withdraw because I need to see is it working at all.

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July 16, 2014, 10:54:28 AM
 #10040

Everyone is talking about how it can't be trusted, and how this clearly demonstates how insecure proof of share blockchains are.

Then, by that measure, 'everyone' is a misinformed idiot. The Bitcoin blockchain has been rolled back in its early history, too, but people didn't start screaming about teh injustice of it all and that it couldn't be trusted and, as has been pointed out numerous times, VRC is still a decentralised currency, if the majority of wallet holders didn't agree to the rollback then Pat and Mintpal would have found themselves sitting alone on their own little fork.

How does this issue relate to a PoS weakness?

BTW, VRC has value-added services which, at this time, are centralised, it doesn't mean to say that people don't value them or find them extremely useful. This rabid hysteria against VeriBit or VeriSend is absurd considering the naysayers are more than happy to use centralised point-of-sale webs services for transactions involving bitcoin.
This newb doesn't even know the difference between a hard-fork for technical reasons (flaw in core code allowing unintended block to be created), and a blockchain rollback for external reasons (bailing out an exchange).

The proof of share weakness is that VRC would have been an easy 51% target if the rollback fork had not been pushed.  That can't happen with a proof of share coin.  To 51% attack BTC or LTC, you need to invest in real hardware beyond reasonable means.  To 51% attack a proof of share (aka, proof of nothing) coin like VRC, you simply need steal a wallet.dat.  Therefore, VRC is reliant on internal security, for security - a deeply flawed concept.  Proof of share coins are secure external to the blockchain.

You don't think its just as easy to hack the people who already control 51% mining share?

Another scenario in which POW is NOT very safe. What if a new technology comes out with incredible hashing ability in the future and a nefarious party gets larger than ghash.io? What if a country decides to make a large bitcoin mining operation and take significant control of the minining network. BITCOIN and POW is not as secure as all those pointing the finger at POS would like to believe.


With POS you can see the money trail coming. You are supposed to buy coin so that way it would not make much practical sense for someone to be motivated to ruin there own investment.

This is a learning experience, just like all others. I feel it was a 1 off in VRC, and the devs said so to. We cannot determine if it was right / wrong yet without speculating. We need to hear from Mintpal on how they could let so much of a POS be vulnerable when it has the ability to severely impact there exchange, and your communities.

The conversation should be on mintpal, and other exchanges and how they should store/secure funds, or we need to find a way to trade securely without large centralized exchanges. Not about if what vericoin did was right it wrong. It did the only thing it could do in the face of extreme negligence by a trusted third party to the ENTIRE crypto community.

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