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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1347503 times)
criptix
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July 16, 2014, 01:24:33 AM
 #9901

Please don't attack Charlie Lee (coblee). He owns VeriCoin and is family. His criticism is justified.

Well Patrick Charlie Lee can be your god but he is VERY wrong this time around. And by being wrong in "his opinion" he is perpetuating not just the biggest flaw in cryptos but defending that the ostracism from the real world will continue. He lives, by his choosing and his opinions, in the bubble of the underworld or nerds who code, watch massive porn amounts, masturbate frequently and are high or doped most of the time. Yes I know a lot in the crypto community adhere to this short of lifestyle and it won't be me criticizing it -or any other lifestyle chosen by adults-, but the fact of the matter is that in that bubble no people from the outside has either a place nor a minimal interest in joining. It's the people that in the name of some form of self-laws and self-government (all of it BULLSHIT, by the way), not only justify thievery and fraud but promote it and even brag about it. It used to be stealing intellectual property and now it has escalated to stealing plain old fashioned money. And that has to stop, by a minimal progression through some semblance of ethics or, most likely, by real law. And regulation.

Meanwhile he dares to call you selfish because you refused to immolate yourself and your partners, forever, while allowing a thief to profit maybe in the millions of dollars at the expense of investors. That's some peculiar sense of "humor" right there. Why not asking directly for you and your partners to commit suicide because you have made a decision that, HOPEFULLY, will forever change crypto and convert it into something with a real practical use for an economy many times bigger than the nerdy coders now crippling it. Where is Litecoin, by the way, going? All the way to Palookaville, I'd say. Where's VRC? We don't know. But if Mr Boricuaman and his Black Hand don't put it out of business -and it is up to you to not allow that to happen, to a certain extent at least-, it is breaking off, or could be breaking off the pack towards a sensible, close to the real people mainstream assimilation.

So sorry but Mr. Charlie Lee is, to me, one asshole more perpetuating crime in crypto and hindering his progress. Yes, you acted selfishly in the way that it was preserving the coin you created that some asshole had marked for death because of the amazing negligence of MintPal. But you decision also saved the hard earned money of over 600 investors/traders. A whole community that believes in you and your partners and avoided another terrible blow to the perception of digital currencies by the mainstream. You didn't have much choice beyond self-immolation but what that selfish decision has and will accomplish, is nothin g short of remarkable.

Let's just say that from now on, just like it did when you gay put your real names out there, there's a before and after in crypto. Hopefully this will separate the assholes and criminal from the progressive ones that will take crypto currencies forward to reach the goals that the technology allows and NOT the political agendas of pathetic rejects and assorted criminals.


I agree with everything you said for the first time ever...

Well said.

buy4crypto = ie?  Cheesy Wink Grin

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July 16, 2014, 01:24:44 AM
 #9902

What you and many others fail to understand, (or more believably use as excuse to FUD) is the fact that not rolling back would exactly lead to the situation in where protocol would be exploited.

Therefore same situation.

Eth.
What you obviously don't understand:
Did VRC fix the protocol?  No...  VRC is still vulnerable to exactly the same majority holder attack. 

This is why Proof of Share coins are inherently inferior.

VRC cannot fix the flaw, because it's built into the protocol. The coin is permanently flawed.

This is a wrong conclusion, in my opinion. The problem is not POS protocol. The problem is the scale. A SMALL POS is a problem. A big one is the solution.

Correct, nowhere, seriously NO WHERE, in any technical literature about POS does it say, "OK, now, a really big and greedy exchange should keep lots and lots of these coins in a hot wallet and have an SQL injection vulnerability coded into their site"

Nowhere does it say that, and remember too, Mintpal never really said how the SQL injection happened, if they even know, if that isn't' complete bullshit anyway.

POS is not the problem, centralized exchanges that lie are the problem. Right on mintpal's site it states "the majority of funds are kept in cold storage" but clearly that is a lie. They keep shitcoins like GRUMP in cold storage I'm sure, but amazingly this really valuable coin, veri, was in the hot wallet, all 8 million. Look at the network stake numbers from just before that day to just after, it was clearly MP staking all 8 million coins, so they lied in their announcement about the hack.

Buy vericoin, dump mintpal.
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July 16, 2014, 01:25:21 AM
 #9903

Please don't attack Charlie Lee (coblee). He owns VeriCoin and is family. His criticism is justified.

Well Patrick Charlie Lee can be your god but he is VERY wrong this time around. And by being wrong in "his opinion" he is perpetuating not just the biggest flaw in cryptos but defending that the ostracism from the real world will continue. He lives, by his choosing and his opinions, in the bubble of the underworld or nerds who code, watch massive porn amounts, masturbate frequently and are high or doped most of the time. Yes I know a lot in the crypto community adhere to this short of lifestyle and it won't be me criticizing it -or any other lifestyle chosen by adults-, but the fact of the matter is that in that bubble no people from the outside has either a place nor a minimal interest in joining. It's the people that in the name of some form of self-laws and self-government (all of it BULLSHIT, by the way), not only justify thievery and fraud but promote it and even brag about it. It used to be stealing intellectual property and now it has escalated to stealing plain old fashioned money. And that has to stop, by a minimal progression through some semblance of ethics or, most likely, by real law. And regulation.

Meanwhile he dares to call you selfish because you refused to immolate yourself and your partners, forever, while allowing a thief to profit maybe in the millions of dollars at the expense of investors. That's some peculiar sense of "humor" right there. Why not asking directly for you and your partners to commit suicide because you have made a decision that, HOPEFULLY, will forever change crypto and convert it into something with a real practical use for an economy many times bigger than the nerdy coders now crippling it. Where is Litecoin, by the way, going? All the way to Palookaville, I'd say. Where's VRC? We don't know. But if Mr Boricuaman and his Black Hand don't put it out of business -and it is up to you to not allow that to happen, to a certain extent at least-, it is breaking off, or could be breaking off the pack towards a sensible, close to the real people mainstream assimilation.

So sorry but Mr. Charlie Lee is, to me, one asshole more perpetuating crime in crypto and hindering his progress. Yes, you acted selfishly in the way that it was preserving the coin you created that some asshole had marked for death because of the amazing negligence of MintPal. But you decision also saved the hard earned money of over 600 investors/traders. A whole community that believes in you and your partners and avoided another terrible blow to the perception of digital currencies by the mainstream. You didn't have much choice beyond self-immolation but what that selfish decision has and will accomplish, is nothin g short of remarkable.

Let's just say that from now on, just like it did when you gay put your real names out there, there's a before and after in crypto. Hopefully this will separate the assholes and criminal from the progressive ones that will take crypto currencies forward to reach the goals that the technology allows and NOT the political agendas of pathetic rejects and assorted criminals.


I agree with everything you said for the first time ever...

Well said.

buy4crypto = ie?  Cheesy Wink Grin

Ha, He is spot on with this perticular opinion. Everything else I question Smiley

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████ - freecrypto.top - btcinfo.top - DIGITAL CURRENCY DIRECTORIES - freeMonero.comfunbtc.xyz  ████
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July 16, 2014, 01:27:31 AM
 #9904


PoS is like gravity though it really is a weak force that encourages centralization by rewarding people for hoarding coins.

What makes people hoard coins in not POS or even the staking payment (which btw is not interest payment, its built-in inflation). People hoard expecting either future appreciation of value or withdrawal security (meaning more money in the future or same money for sure).
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July 16, 2014, 01:28:56 AM
 #9905


Correct, nowhere, seriously NO WHERE, in any technical literature about POS does it say, "OK, now, a really big and greedy exchange should keep lots and lots of these coins in a hot wallet and have an SQL injection vulnerability coded into their site"


something happened with my last post so I will post it again here...

that's true but what if mintpal were staking? or some other exchange decides to get greedy and use their hot wallets to stake its PoS coins.

they claim they weren't but now that the idea is out there whats to stop someone from trying it...  Huh
some people say that staking that many coins chews up cpu.. but what the cost of running another server for your hot wallet when compared to the temptation of all those free coins?

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July 16, 2014, 01:30:59 AM
 #9906



that's true but what if mintpal were staking? or some other exchange decides to get greedy and use their hot wallets to stake its PoS coins.

they claim they weren't but now that the idea is out there...


Nice that we agree, because that's what I was saying exactly happened. Hence, Buy Vericoin, Dump Mintpal.

Mintpal is the problem, not POS, not the community's decision to fork, MINTPAL is the problem and yes they lied several times recently.

If you trade at mintpal now you are doing it wrong. If you dump vericoin because the community made a distributed decision then you are doing it wrong, but I'll be glad to sell you a bag around 300K when we get there, when you're panic buying back in.
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July 16, 2014, 01:31:31 AM
 #9907


Correct, nowhere, seriously NO WHERE, in any technical literature about POS does it say, "OK, now, a really big and greedy exchange should keep lots and lots of these coins in a hot wallet and have an SQL injection vulnerability coded into their site"


something happened with my last post so I will post it again here...

that's true but what if mintpal were staking? or some other exchange decides to get greedy and use their hot wallets to stake its PoS coins.

they claim they weren't but now that the idea is out there whats to stop someone from trying it...  Huh
some people say that staking that many coins chews up cpu.. but what the cost of running another server for your hot wallet when compared to the temptation of all those free coins?

For the exchanges that have to record everything you have to account for every transaction. Creating all those micro transactions have to be followed by a paper trail by lawyers and auditors. Most exchanges of size, and in certain jurisdictions will have to obey by those laws.

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████ - freecrypto.top - btcinfo.top - DIGITAL CURRENCY DIRECTORIES - freeMonero.comfunbtc.xyz  ████
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July 16, 2014, 01:32:06 AM
 #9908


Correct, nowhere, seriously NO WHERE, in any technical literature about POS does it say, "OK, now, a really big and greedy exchange should keep lots and lots of these coins in a hot wallet and have an SQL injection vulnerability coded into their site"


something happened with my last post so I will post it again here...

that's true but what if mintpal were staking? or some other exchange decides to get greedy and use their hot wallets to stake its PoS coins.

they claim they weren't but now that the idea is out there whats to stop someone from trying it...  Huh
some people say that staking that many coins chews up cpu.. but what the cost of running another server for your hot wallet when compared to the temptation of all those free coins?

but isnt the call for a decentralized exchange nearly as old as bitcoin itself? :8

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July 16, 2014, 01:32:41 AM
 #9909


PoS is like gravity though it really is a weak force that encourages centralization by rewarding people for hoarding coins.

What makes people hoard coins in not POS or even the staking payment (which btw is not interest payment, its built-in inflation). People hoard expecting either future appreciation of value or withdrawal security (meaning more money in the future or same money for sure).

so many people have used hoarding as one of the benefits of PoS... if people are being rewarded for staking they can't be dumping on exchanges the line goes.
if the reward for staking is too small then nobody would do it.. if nobody stakes then how does the coin function?

this is why I said its a weak force.. not something that forces people to do anything but surely it has to be a subtle form of encouragement.

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
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July 16, 2014, 01:33:23 AM
 #9910

I thought I would never see the day but....I agree with barabbas's statement! I think the world might end now!

*hides under rock*

All kidding aside, well said barabbas...well said Cool
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July 16, 2014, 01:33:44 AM
 #9911

I love how these so called Crypto Purists are coming here telling VRC investors what is wrong / right about them getting their coins back.

Get one thing straight, It is not only VeriCoin that was just attacked. This was an attack on Mintpal which by the way everyone who day trade has various coins on there at any given moment. This whole " but...but..you should not have that much coins on there " debate is nonsensical.

- People can buy whatever coin they want, in this case VeriCoin, some buy for long term, some just want to flip for daily profit it is their choice.  

- Yes Mintpal to a lot of degree messed up. Massive security flaw. if you wish to leave your coins there it is up to you. as for me.. no thanks

 - The attack on VeriCoin had this intention : Steal something valuable, Wreck something valuable that poses a threat to competing coin(s), last but not least.. Kill VeriCoin. For the past few weeks, VeriCoin led Mintpal in terms of daily volume. Hence all the fud/hate to bring it down.

As for the reversal, the dev did what they could and helped out the investors, Mintpal and salvaged the coin.

Now here come people ( most who are NOT even VRC investors ) claiming, Oh you should have let it die !! yea ok.. view previous outline...is it not what you want ?

For Crypto or any business model to go forward and become mainstream theft will not be tolerated, it is not bad enough all this fuckery of P&D goes on daily..which tarnishes crypto as whole, then people have the damm nerves to come here and tell us what is right and what is wrong.






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July 16, 2014, 01:37:15 AM
 #9912


Correct, nowhere, seriously NO WHERE, in any technical literature about POS does it say, "OK, now, a really big and greedy exchange should keep lots and lots of these coins in a hot wallet and have an SQL injection vulnerability coded into their site"


something happened with my last post so I will post it again here...

that's true but what if mintpal were staking? or some other exchange decides to get greedy and use their hot wallets to stake its PoS coins.

they claim they weren't but now that the idea is out there whats to stop someone from trying it...  Huh
some people say that staking that many coins chews up cpu.. but what the cost of running another server for your hot wallet when compared to the temptation of all those free coins?

For the exchanges that have to record everything you have to account for every transaction. Creating all those micro transactions have to be followed by a paper trail by lawyers and auditors. Most exchanges of size, and in certain jurisdictions will have to obey by those laws.


well they weren't obeying their own security procedures. mintpal does not trade fiat so I am not sure what laws are applicable in the UK. we do know from past exchanges that crashed that many of them were not obeying the laws of their jurisdictions. as for mintpal... who knows... but to me .. if someone can steal 2 million dollars worth of coins off their exchange then they clearly are not doing all the things that they should do and claim to be doing.

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July 16, 2014, 01:38:02 AM
 #9913


PoS is like gravity though it really is a weak force that encourages centralization by rewarding people for hoarding coins.

What makes people hoard coins in not POS or even the staking payment (which btw is not interest payment, its built-in inflation). People hoard expecting either future appreciation of value or withdrawal security (meaning more money in the future or same money for sure).

so many people have used hoarding as one of the benefits of PoS... if people are being rewarded for staking they can't be dumping on exchanges the line goes.
if the reward for staking is too small then nobody would do it.. if nobody stakes then how does the coin function?

this is why I said its a weak force.. not something that forces people to do anything but surely it has to be a subtle form of encouragement.


Alphi, the quantity of coins in not changing (what changes is the conversion rate to btc or usd)...
So, the coins are always "owned" by someone and therefore staking in someone's wallet.
Staked doesn't necessarily mean hoarded. Huge difference!
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July 16, 2014, 01:39:39 AM
 #9914


but isnt the call for a decentralized exchange nearly as old as bitcoin itself? :8

yep and people still haven't learnt.

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July 16, 2014, 01:43:05 AM
 #9915

I love how these so called Crypto Purists are coming here telling VRC investors what is wrong / right about them getting their coins back.

Get one thing straight, It is not only VeriCoin that was just attacked. This was an attack on Minpal which by the way everyone who day trade has various coins on there at any given moment. This whole " but...but..you should not have that much coins on there " debate is nonsensical.

- People can buy whatever coin they want, in this case VeriCoin, some buy for long term, some just want to flip for daily profit it is their choice.  

- Yes Mintpal to a lot of degree messed up. Massive security flaw. if you wish to leave your coins there it is up to you. as for me.. no thanks

 - The attack on VeriCoin had this intention : Steal something valuable, Wreck something valuable that poses a threat to competing coin(s), last but not least.. Kill VeriCoin. For the past few weeks, VeriCoin led Mintpal in terms of daily volume. Hence all the fud/hate to bring it down.

As for the reversal, the dev did what they could and helped out the investors, Mintpal and salvaged the coin.

Now here come people ( most who are NOT even VRC investors ) claiming, Oh you should have let it die !! yea ok.. view previous outline...is it not what you want ?

For Crypto or any business model to go forward and become mainstream theft will not be tolerated, it is not bad enough all this fuckery of P&D goes on daily..which tarnishes crypto as whole, then people have the damm nerves to come here and tell us what is right and what is wrong.




Its just other coins communities or just pure jealousy or just like the Joker, some men just want to watch the world burn.

A community makes a decision, as a community, but because the 3 developers are required to do the technical part, to undo a mistake made by a criminally greedy exchange, somehow that is centralization?Huh

It's not and we know it, but the FUD'ers want cheap coins, can you blame them? This thing is going to 500K short term. I'd want cheap coins too.
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July 16, 2014, 01:44:10 AM
 #9916

The coins age makes something bad like this possible. With more time it gets more adopted and gaining this control becomes less of a concern. Also who is not to say that most of these alts dont have 50% or 60% of their coins on one exchange. The problem is we dont yet have a decentralized exchange and they have given vericoin a cause that if they are willing to accept and succeed at creating one, would solve most of these issues.
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July 16, 2014, 01:45:25 AM
 #9917


Alphi, the quantity of coins in not changing (what changes is the conversion rate to btc or usd)...
So, the coins are always "owned" by someone and therefore staking in someone's wallet.
Staked doesn't necessarily mean hoarded. Huge difference!

ok you lost me.. if I stake coins I don't get paid more coins for staking them? and those coins are not created from new blocks?


front page says 26,751,452.35 total coins created in PoW phase. the block explorer says 26,791,093.04 coins exist as of today. so it sure looks to me like coins are being created through staking.

anyways I was speaking generally about PoS... where staking rewards are usually the case.


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July 16, 2014, 01:56:52 AM
 #9918

hangout with the devs starting soon

[03:50] <@pnosker> http://youtu.be/1PkqNcVD0YI


dont miss it!

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July 16, 2014, 02:04:41 AM
 #9919


Alphi, the quantity of coins in not changing (what changes is the conversion rate to btc or usd)...
So, the coins are always "owned" by someone and therefore staking in someone's wallet.
Staked doesn't necessarily mean hoarded. Huge difference!

ok you lost me.. if I stake coins I don't get paid more coins for staking them? and those coins are not created from new blocks?


front page says 26,751,452.35 total coins created in PoW phase. the block explorer says 26,791,093.04 coins exist as of today. so it sure looks to me like coins are being created through staking.

anyways I was speaking generally about PoS... where staking rewards are usually the case.



Yes, new coins are created when staking (some 2.5% per year). These new coins created as a reward for staking are actually a built-in inflation.
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July 16, 2014, 02:04:47 AM
 #9920

The coins age makes something bad like this possible. With more time it gets more adopted and gaining this control becomes less of a concern. Also who is not to say that most of these alts dont have 50% or 60% of their coins on one exchange. The problem is we dont yet have a decentralized exchange and they have given vericoin a cause that if they are willing to accept and succeed at creating one, would solve most of these issues.

vericoin community got slammed hard because of mintpal.. this community should push for a mintpal audit.

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
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