[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released

[ofp]

PoS is like gravity though it really is a weak force that encourages centralization by rewarding people for hoarding coins.

What makes people hoard coins in not POS or even the staking payment (which btw is not interest payment, its built-in inflation). People hoard expecting either future appreciation of value or withdrawal security (meaning more money in the future or same money for sure).

[1524767416]

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[Alphi]

Correct, nowhere, seriously NO WHERE, in any technical literature about POS does it say, "OK, now, a really big and greedy exchange should keep lots and lots of these coins in a hot wallet and have an SQL injection vulnerability coded into their site"

something happened with my last post so I will post it again here...

that's true but what if mintpal were staking? or some other exchange decides to get greedy and use their hot wallets to stake its PoS coins.

they claim they weren't but now that the idea is out there whats to stop someone from trying it...  
some people say that staking that many coins chews up cpu.. but what the cost of running another server for your hot wallet when compared to the temptation of all those free coins?

[jrich76]

that's true but what if mintpal were staking? or some other exchange decides to get greedy and use their hot wallets to stake its PoS coins.

they claim they weren't but now that the idea is out there...

Nice that we agree, because that's what I was saying exactly happened. Hence, Buy Vericoin, Dump Mintpal.

Mintpal is the problem, not POS, not the community's decision to fork, MINTPAL is the problem and yes they lied several times recently.

If you trade at mintpal now you are doing it wrong. If you dump vericoin because the community made a distributed decision then you are doing it wrong, but I'll be glad to sell you a bag around 300K when we get there, when you're panic buying back in.

[buy4crypto]

Correct, nowhere, seriously NO WHERE, in any technical literature about POS does it say, "OK, now, a really big and greedy exchange should keep lots and lots of these coins in a hot wallet and have an SQL injection vulnerability coded into their site"

something happened with my last post so I will post it again here...

that's true but what if mintpal were staking? or some other exchange decides to get greedy and use their hot wallets to stake its PoS coins.

they claim they weren't but now that the idea is out there whats to stop someone from trying it...  
some people say that staking that many coins chews up cpu.. but what the cost of running another server for your hot wallet when compared to the temptation of all those free coins?

For the exchanges that have to record everything you have to account for every transaction. Creating all those micro transactions have to be followed by a paper trail by lawyers and auditors. Most exchanges of size, and in certain jurisdictions will have to obey by those laws.

[criptix]

Correct, nowhere, seriously NO WHERE, in any technical literature about POS does it say, "OK, now, a really big and greedy exchange should keep lots and lots of these coins in a hot wallet and have an SQL injection vulnerability coded into their site"

something happened with my last post so I will post it again here...

that's true but what if mintpal were staking? or some other exchange decides to get greedy and use their hot wallets to stake its PoS coins.

they claim they weren't but now that the idea is out there whats to stop someone from trying it...  
some people say that staking that many coins chews up cpu.. but what the cost of running another server for your hot wallet when compared to the temptation of all those free coins?

but isnt the call for a decentralized exchange nearly as old as bitcoin itself? :8

[Alphi]

PoS is like gravity though it really is a weak force that encourages centralization by rewarding people for hoarding coins.

What makes people hoard coins in not POS or even the staking payment (which btw is not interest payment, its built-in inflation). People hoard expecting either future appreciation of value or withdrawal security (meaning more money in the future or same money for sure).

so many people have used hoarding as one of the benefits of PoS... if people are being rewarded for staking they can't be dumping on exchanges the line goes.
if the reward for staking is too small then nobody would do it.. if nobody stakes then how does the coin function?

this is why I said its a weak force.. not something that forces people to do anything but surely it has to be a subtle form of encouragement.

[MAD945]

I thought I would never see the day but....I agree with barabbas's statement! I think the world might end now!

*hides under rock*

All kidding aside, well said barabbas...well said

[Shinraven]

I love how these so called Crypto Purists are coming here telling VRC investors what is wrong / right about them getting their coins back.

Get one thing straight, It is not only VeriCoin that was just attacked. This was an attack on Mintpal which by the way everyone who day trade has various coins on there at any given moment. This whole " but...but..you should not have that much coins on there " debate is nonsensical.

- People can buy whatever coin they want, in this case VeriCoin, some buy for long term, some just want to flip for daily profit it is their choice.  

- Yes Mintpal to a lot of degree messed up. Massive security flaw. if you wish to leave your coins there it is up to you. as for me.. no thanks

 - The attack on VeriCoin had this intention : Steal something valuable, Wreck something valuable that poses a threat to competing coin(s), last but not least.. Kill VeriCoin. For the past few weeks, VeriCoin led Mintpal in terms of daily volume. Hence all the fud/hate to bring it down.

As for the reversal, the dev did what they could and helped out the investors, Mintpal and salvaged the coin.

Now here come people ( most who are NOT even VRC investors ) claiming, Oh you should have let it die !! yea ok.. view previous outline...is it not what you want ?

For Crypto or any business model to go forward and become mainstream theft will not be tolerated, it is not bad enough all this fuckery of P&D goes on daily..which tarnishes crypto as whole, then people have the damm nerves to come here and tell us what is right and what is wrong.

[Alphi]

Correct, nowhere, seriously NO WHERE, in any technical literature about POS does it say, "OK, now, a really big and greedy exchange should keep lots and lots of these coins in a hot wallet and have an SQL injection vulnerability coded into their site"

something happened with my last post so I will post it again here...

that's true but what if mintpal were staking? or some other exchange decides to get greedy and use their hot wallets to stake its PoS coins.

they claim they weren't but now that the idea is out there whats to stop someone from trying it...  
some people say that staking that many coins chews up cpu.. but what the cost of running another server for your hot wallet when compared to the temptation of all those free coins?

For the exchanges that have to record everything you have to account for every transaction. Creating all those micro transactions have to be followed by a paper trail by lawyers and auditors. Most exchanges of size, and in certain jurisdictions will have to obey by those laws.

well they weren't obeying their own security procedures. mintpal does not trade fiat so I am not sure what laws are applicable in the UK. we do know from past exchanges that crashed that many of them were not obeying the laws of their jurisdictions. as for mintpal... who knows... but to me .. if someone can steal 2 million dollars worth of coins off their exchange then they clearly are not doing all the things that they should do and claim to be doing.

[ofp]

PoS is like gravity though it really is a weak force that encourages centralization by rewarding people for hoarding coins.

What makes people hoard coins in not POS or even the staking payment (which btw is not interest payment, its built-in inflation). People hoard expecting either future appreciation of value or withdrawal security (meaning more money in the future or same money for sure).

so many people have used hoarding as one of the benefits of PoS... if people are being rewarded for staking they can't be dumping on exchanges the line goes.
if the reward for staking is too small then nobody would do it.. if nobody stakes then how does the coin function?

this is why I said its a weak force.. not something that forces people to do anything but surely it has to be a subtle form of encouragement.

Alphi, the quantity of coins in not changing (what changes is the conversion rate to btc or usd)...
So, the coins are always "owned" by someone and therefore staking in someone's wallet.
Staked doesn't necessarily mean hoarded. Huge difference!

[Alphi]

but isnt the call for a decentralized exchange nearly as old as bitcoin itself? :8

yep and people still haven't learnt.

[jrich76]

I love how these so called Crypto Purists are coming here telling VRC investors what is wrong / right about them getting their coins back.

Get one thing straight, It is not only VeriCoin that was just attacked. This was an attack on Minpal which by the way everyone who day trade has various coins on there at any given moment. This whole " but...but..you should not have that much coins on there " debate is nonsensical.

- People can buy whatever coin they want, in this case VeriCoin, some buy for long term, some just want to flip for daily profit it is their choice.  

- Yes Mintpal to a lot of degree messed up. Massive security flaw. if you wish to leave your coins there it is up to you. as for me.. no thanks

 - The attack on VeriCoin had this intention : Steal something valuable, Wreck something valuable that poses a threat to competing coin(s), last but not least.. Kill VeriCoin. For the past few weeks, VeriCoin led Mintpal in terms of daily volume. Hence all the fud/hate to bring it down.

As for the reversal, the dev did what they could and helped out the investors, Mintpal and salvaged the coin.

Now here come people ( most who are NOT even VRC investors ) claiming, Oh you should have let it die !! yea ok.. view previous outline...is it not what you want ?

For Crypto or any business model to go forward and become mainstream theft will not be tolerated, it is not bad enough all this fuckery of P&D goes on daily..which tarnishes crypto as whole, then people have the damm nerves to come here and tell us what is right and what is wrong.

Its just other coins communities or just pure jealousy or just like the Joker, some men just want to watch the world burn.

A community makes a decision, as a community, but because the 3 developers are required to do the technical part, to undo a mistake made by a criminally greedy exchange, somehow that is centralization?

It's not and we know it, but the FUD'ers want cheap coins, can you blame them? This thing is going to 500K short term. I'd want cheap coins too.

[bitsterr]

The coins age makes something bad like this possible. With more time it gets more adopted and gaining this control becomes less of a concern. Also who is not to say that most of these alts dont have 50% or 60% of their coins on one exchange. The problem is we dont yet have a decentralized exchange and they have given vericoin a cause that if they are willing to accept and succeed at creating one, would solve most of these issues.

[Alphi]

Alphi, the quantity of coins in not changing (what changes is the conversion rate to btc or usd)...
So, the coins are always "owned" by someone and therefore staking in someone's wallet.
Staked doesn't necessarily mean hoarded. Huge difference!

ok you lost me.. if I stake coins I don't get paid more coins for staking them? and those coins are not created from new blocks?


front page says 26,751,452.35 total coins created in PoW phase. the block explorer says 26,791,093.04 coins exist as of today. so it sure looks to me like coins are being created through staking.

anyways I was speaking generally about PoS... where staking rewards are usually the case.

[criptix]

hangout with the devs starting soon

[03:50] <@pnosker> http://youtu.be/1PkqNcVD0YI


dont miss it!

[ofp]

Alphi, the quantity of coins in not changing (what changes is the conversion rate to btc or usd)...
So, the coins are always "owned" by someone and therefore staking in someone's wallet.
Staked doesn't necessarily mean hoarded. Huge difference!

ok you lost me.. if I stake coins I don't get paid more coins for staking them? and those coins are not created from new blocks?


front page says 26,751,452.35 total coins created in PoW phase. the block explorer says 26,791,093.04 coins exist as of today. so it sure looks to me like coins are being created through staking.

anyways I was speaking generally about PoS... where staking rewards are usually the case.

Yes, new coins are created when staking (some 2.5% per year). These new coins created as a reward for staking are actually a built-in inflation.

[Alphi]

The coins age makes something bad like this possible. With more time it gets more adopted and gaining this control becomes less of a concern. Also who is not to say that most of these alts dont have 50% or 60% of their coins on one exchange. The problem is we dont yet have a decentralized exchange and they have given vericoin a cause that if they are willing to accept and succeed at creating one, would solve most of these issues.

vericoin community got slammed hard because of mintpal.. this community should push for a mintpal audit.

[Alphi]

Yes, new coins are created when staking (some 2.5% per year). These new coins created as a reward for staking are actually a built-in inflation.

you can call it inflation, interest whatever you want.. its still a small incentive for people to collect and hold i.e. hoard coins. thankfully not as big as other PoS coins. and obviously not big enough because mintpal still had more than 30% of the entire supply.

[stormia]

Yes, new coins are created when staking (some 2.5% per year). These new coins created as a reward for staking are actually a built-in inflation.

you can call it inflation, interest whatever you want.. its still a small incentive for people to hoard coins. thankfully not as big as other PoS coins. and obviously not big enough because mintpal still had more than 30% of the entire supply.

It is incentive to secure the network

[Alphi]

Yes, new coins are created when staking (some 2.5% per year). These new coins created as a reward for staking are actually a built-in inflation.

you can call it inflation, interest whatever you want.. its still a small incentive for people to hoard coins. thankfully not as big as other PoS coins. and obviously not big enough because mintpal still had more than 30% of the entire supply.

It is incentive to secure the network

wow its people really like arguing semantics today...

you get paid to hold the coins in one place instead of spending them.. this leads to centralization. it doesn't matter what you call it... the effect is the same... people are encouraged to put the coins in one place so they can get even more coins... if the coins are in one place they can be stolen more easily...

how much more explaining do you need?

 a coin that pays out 2.5% PA is obviously not going to encouraging hoarding as much as one that pays out 10% per year (like some other PoS coins) . and obviously some people thought they could get more money trading the coins on mint pal hence why so many coins where held on there. but any kind of reward for holding will encourage some amount of centralization.