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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1354676 times)
barabbas
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July 14, 2014, 05:56:25 PM
 #9081

....
That is is you want to have a guaranteed successful 51% attack...than 51% of the total coins STAKING....
barabbas you know that there are systems like PPC NOVA are using to prevent small amounts to make 51% attack
they are preventing it because of stake modyficators time stamps many  other combined solutions that only core coders understand not you...
At the end you have centralized CHECKPOINTs and no 51% attack is possible because of that...
POS system is not like just that you have 51%of stake and you will attack...
look how Nova is preventing 51% attack with having only 25% coins those technologies are known...
in fact when you have centralized checkpoint you are safe from 2x spend cause checkpoint servers will chose right chain for you...
Stop telling how you know POS while you are far away from tech aspects of case.
I am noob too but i know "a little more".


Tech info below ( BC in POS 2.0 pushed even further those security ... )
____________________

http://coinwiki.info/en/Novacoin
Stake generation issues
The main proof-of-stake design problem is that unlike proof-of-work hashing rate, stake weight could be used multiple times without any overhead. It allows potential attacker to repeat his attempts to generate consecutive stakes until he will get lucky enough. And there is high probability to success without holding large stake, 20–25% of total weight (not coins) will be more than enough. Attacker can retry his attempts to generate consecutive stakes 1,000, 50,000, or 1 million times without any problem, using the same outputs.[12][13]
This could be worked around using centralized check-pointing. Novacoin creators resolved this issue using balanced weighting scheme.[14]

Centralized check pointing
As PPCoin ideas descendant, Novacoin is not truly a decentralized currency as it still requires centralized check pointing to avoid several issues.[15] The Novacoin developer has announced however that this check pointing is only a temporary measure which will be removed once the currency grows sufficiently stable. The centralized checkpoints feature could be disabled manually using -nosynccheckpoints option for official client.

Blade, your post is so poorly written I don't understand a single thing you try to say (and, for once, they seem to be some interesting things being intended to be said there), so please try again. Give yourself a bit more time, maybe re-read and then post. I am not being sarcastinc, just read your post and you will see what I mean.

Besides that, it's difficult to understand why would you want me to "Stop telling how you know POS". I only post what I know and tech specs are not it. But I do know that if you control 51% of staking coins, you can perpetrate a 100% successful attack. And that if you have much less than 51% you still can perpetrate attacks that will eventually stand a good chance of being successful. If PPC or Nova have solutions for this, I don't know but I don't doubt it. What I read you posted seem, on first approach, for from an ideal solution -and not much different from rolling back actually-, but I may not "get" it completely...

In any case, you seem to want to avoid addressing the fact that someone or some group controlling 4.5 million (roughly 20% of total VRC and surely over 40, maybe even 50% of VRC STAKING poses a clear and present danger of a 51% attack, thefts and security failures at exchanges notwithstanding. I also would be quite interested in your personal opinion -if I can understand your answer, that is-, about the "generosity" towards VRC, and stake in it, of "Mr Boricua Man" for he played for quite a long time in YOUR field...Oh, and by the way, that field is on its way to extinction, as you are beginning to see now, so as an example to VRC, which is on the way up, up up and just starting, it simply cannot "work"/ Sorry for, as you know, I simply love the logo... but there's nothing else of any value there.

Please remember that Mintpal has stated officially that they don't mint POS coins.

Where does this large % come from?

Its only FUD, not FACT that you say in this case. and keep trying to go on. You are wrong on your principal, so stop before you continue on like its fact.


I see so many % symbols And I dont think 1 of them has any real meaning behind them other than being pulled out of air to make nice stories up.

You are quite confused at this point. That's why you just avoid thinking. It's ok. Things will sink in. Eventually.

Do you understand or not, that the money in Mintpal was NOT being staked? So that your theories are based on nothing factual?

If you can't respond to this, I can't help you anymore. You will continue to lie.

I understand very clearly, thank you. You, on the other hand, cannot understand anything at this point seemingly. Lets go by steps ok?
step one.- forget about the theft and Mintpal.
step two .- there's (was, now it's redistributed in several- ONE wallet with 4.5 million VRCs. It isn't a Mintpal, or Bittrex or Cryptsy wallet.
step three.- 4.5 million VRC are probably more than 50% or currently STAKING coins.
step four.- It doesn't take too much money -for groups such as the Black Hand-, to put together an amount enough to actually control not just 4.5 million VRC but several (millions) more -at current prices-

Does the picture gets less cloudy now?

PS.- I never, ever, lie. Ever.


Do you have PROOF of anything, or speculation based on hopes?


Do you have intimate knowledge that it was a blackhand? Can you PROVE it? or any other nefarious account that was it staking? Could it have been an exchange wallet not staking that had em? photoshop?



Can you give me facts so I can see this account you claim was staking the 4.5 mil?

 Do you want forensic evidence or just guidelines for a SUV episode script? Would the wallet id suffice/ the public acknowledgement by Patrick of the existence of that wallet? Or you just would continue in denial no matter what? Everything was posted here -by someone who actually did the work- around July 7th so at least do a bit of homework if yoiu want to even be considered for any serious discussions, ok?

Of, if you provide the subpoena I will gladly provide the forensic evidence. Since you can not, circumstantial and common sense evidence will do.

For most people.

Obviously not for the crooks.
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July 14, 2014, 05:57:30 PM
 #9082

Hearsay. No facts presented.

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July 14, 2014, 06:19:58 PM
 #9083

Everything  now about what happened is spelation, all we know is how the situation was solved. Dev took a decision and the comunnity stands behind him. So i guess the holders of the coin must decide what do do it?
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July 14, 2014, 06:21:41 PM
 #9084

Linux wallet is in testing now.

VRC: VMTMcvFjZHAshmVNLY5KYVHCTqcfEnH6Bd  SLR: 8W7D6D7rortYp51BK9MSrfripSoZWyVPVr  BTC: 1LbgAsTDtyWEGjiSaguJhJbaHBPgcMnHfP  BCC: 1Ta39PK67VXTD2xnmPNo5J9KJyBVHdYmy
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July 14, 2014, 06:26:49 PM
 #9085

Quote
"criminal" is just a label governments place on competition as a way of stifling it.

Are you slow or something? Please dont quote me for your anti govt rhetoric. You a govt conspiracy klown? Move then, move to somewhere w/o a govt. Govt suck yes but it's a necessary evil. Think society can function without a govt then your living in some bullshit Utopian dream. W/o govt society would self-combust within days.

People that steal from others are criminals and should be put to death...there's no getting around this. "OMG did he say that?" Death too harsh? Ok, then cut off hands. Hackers,script kiddies online scammers should face huge fines and incarceration.

While we are at it lets change the juvenile laws so that kids smart enough to steal from others via electronic measures go to the big house for a little rehabilitation. The parents will scream "little billy didn't know what he was doing". No you incompetent P.O.S parent, you didn't know what little billy was doing. Billy gonna go smoke Bubbas pipe for a few years while he reflects upon how cool it was to dupe others.

Whew! Feel better already...

Now back to making dollars
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July 14, 2014, 06:31:13 PM
 #9086

I am not sure why people are arguing about the rollback.  This is a democratic process.  If you do not agree with the rollback fork, do not switch to the new wallet.  If you do agree, switch to the new wallet.  Majority wins.
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July 14, 2014, 06:33:39 PM
 #9087



MintPal Exchange Suffers VeriCoin Hack
July 14, 2014

On Sunday, June 13, 2014, the popular cryptocurrency exchange MintPal made an announcement revealing that they had been the victim of an attack which targeted the exchange's VeriCoin wallets [1]. While the amount stolen was not disclosed, MintPal did confirm in the post that they lost "a considerable amount of VeriCoin in the attack". Some rumors suggest that the exchange may have lost roughly 8 million VeriCoin -- or $1,900,000 USD at current market price. While this amount has not yet been verified by MintPal officials, recent transactions on the VeriCoin blockchain confirm that two large transfers in the amount of 5 million and 3 million VRC had taken place [2] [3]. As evidenced by the blockchain, the stolen coins do not appear to have been sold on any exchange.

Community Response
Upon disclosure of this information, MintPal and competing exchanges were quick to suspend trading of VeriCoin. According to the announcement, the exchange plans on pursuing a hard fork which would essentially rollback VeriCoin's blockchain to a position before the attack. This decision would render the stolen coins worthless and restore user’s balances. This news comes as a surprise to many because hard forks are generally considered to be extremely disruptive procedures reserved only for flaws with the core protocol -- not mistakes made by a third party exchange.

Some speculators have raised the point that the decision to roll back a coin at the request of a private corporation undermines the very nature of decentralized cryptocurrencies. While true, it should be noted that this decision can also be largely attributed to the fact that VeriCoin is a Proof-of-Stake coin. A stakeholder with access to 8 million coins (roughly 30% of the total coin count) could compromise the network by executing the nefarious 51% attack (or 30% in this case) [4]. Regardless of the rationale, the decision to hard fork the coin undoubtedly appears to be necessary and the VeriCoin developers seem to agree [5].

Whats Next
It remains to be seen what kind of effect this news will have on VeriCoin's price once markets are re-enabled. While this news certainly calls MintPal's security procedures into question, the VeriCoin community and developers have generally been receptive to the idea of a hard fork and have since successfully forked the coin. It is unclear whether or not MintPal will be reversing any trades prior to the announcement.

1. https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=17

2. http://chainz.cryptoid.info/vrc/address.dws?80779.htm

3. http://chainz.cryptoid.info/vrc/address.dws?80780.htm

4. https://twitter.com/pnosker/status/488355728491819009

5. http://www.vericoin.info/downloads/Statement.pdf

Written by Michael Toth  https://plus.google.com/u/0/106211569656491875003?rel=author


----


Great write up from RapidCX/Michael Toth  @ https://www.rapidcx.com/blog/mintpal-exchange-suffers-vericoin-hack

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July 14, 2014, 06:35:33 PM
 #9088

I am not sure why people are arguing about the rollback.  This is a democratic process.  If you do not agree with the rollback fork, do not switch to the new wallet.  If you do agree, switch to the new wallet.  Majority wins.


This.


The usual people in this thread approve the fork, period.


Haters gonna hate.
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July 14, 2014, 06:38:22 PM
 #9089

I purchased VRC daily. If done hardfork, my coins deleted before the hack ?

Don't worry bro, the only one who is losing it's coins is the hacker. Not you. Just stay relaxed and fud the fudsters. Much more fun to do Tongue
IF hacker sold that coin rollback will steal coin from people who were innocent merchant/exchanges/individual traders but touched stolen coins...
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July 14, 2014, 06:39:25 PM
 #9090

Kudos to VRC devs for having the stones to do something and do it quickly.

This will be historic in the crypto timeline and people will continue to disagree if it was the right decision. Crypto is still getting it's legs so things like this will happen. What matter most is we continue to move down the field towards our ultimate goal of mass adoption of crypto.

One of the issues today is the "cool" social status criminals are given. Script kiddies and hackers are just smarter criminals than the guy slinging dope on the corner. Both are part of the problem and should pay for their choices.

All you haters please dump into my buy walls.

When I look to the future I see VRC.
+1000  Cool
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July 14, 2014, 06:40:14 PM
 #9091

I purchased VRC daily. If done hardfork, my coins deleted before the hack ?

Don't worry bro, the only one who is losing it's coins is the hacker. Not you. Just stay relaxed and fud the fudsters. Much more fun to do Tongue
IF hacker sold that coin rollback will steal coin from people who were innocent merchant/exchanges/individual traders but touched stolen coins...

The hacker did not sell the coin.

Support the VeriFund Endowment.
VRC: VFEndownxxnHea9mv59kZx8c7TysGbndYx
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July 14, 2014, 06:40:18 PM
 #9092

I purchased VRC daily. If done hardfork, my coins deleted before the hack ?

Don't worry bro, the only one who is losing it's coins is the hacker. Not you. Just stay relaxed and fud the fudsters. Much more fun to do Tongue
IF hacker sold that coin rollback will steal coin from people who were innocent merchant/exchanges/individual traders but touched stolen coins...

the coin never moved from mintpal, hacker got nothing, thats the whole point of this.

VeriCoin 8million - thief 0

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July 14, 2014, 06:41:08 PM
 #9093

IF hacker sold that coin rollback will steal coin from people who were innocent merchant/exchanges/individual traders but touched stolen coins...

Mintpal have said they will reimburse anyone who can show they lost funds as part of the rollback.

It's far cheaper for them to come up with a fistful of bitcoin in compensation for proven loss than it would have been for 8mil VRC.


WARNING!!! Check your forum URLs carefully and avoid links to phishing sites like 'thebitcointalk' 'bitcointalk.to' and 'BitcointaLLk'
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July 14, 2014, 06:44:18 PM
 #9094

Quote
IF hacker sold that coin rollback will steal coin from people who were innocent merchant/exchanges/individual traders but touched stolen coins...

Hasnt it already been proven that no VRC was moved from thief's wallet? Should this be the case then mintpal should step up and compensate anyone who lost because of this incident.
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July 14, 2014, 06:45:51 PM
 #9095

Mintpal owes VeriCoin bigtime. It somehow seems through all this that people forget, VeriCoin was THE victim, not the criminal here. They moved to directly protect is own crypto from vulnerability, and the network voted to accept the changes. Nothing more, nothing less.

But indirectly, VeriCoin saved the whole exchange and every alt that was on Mintpal from a potential dump / run on the currencies. And Surely another black eye for crypto and exchanges. MintGox could have happened without such actions from VeriCoin.


VeriCoin saved crypto today, and all this trouble in the end may help grow us further than we could have ever got before.

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July 14, 2014, 06:47:34 PM
 #9096

the coin never moved from mintpal, hacker got nothing, thats the whole point of this.

VeriCoin 8million - thief 0
AKA: The coins were never stolen...  MintPal screwed up and lost their private keys, or something similar.

It's by and far a more reasonable explanation then any of the bullshit stories from MintPal and the VRC devs.

VRC - we bail out exchanges when they fuck up, and the cost of blockchain integrity.
MintPal - declared too big to fail by VRC.

It's like fiat in a crypto, lol....

Mintpal have said they will reimburse anyone who can show they lost funds as part of the rollback.

It's far cheaper for them to come up with a fistful of bitcoin in compensation for proven loss than it would have been for 8mil VRC.
Tip:  If you had a ton of VRC, you would have been very smart to send them from one address you own to another before the blockchain rollback occured. 
Then, contact mintpal, show them the transaction (which will have been reverted), and demand they reimburse you for your lost VRC from the private sale of <insert good here>.

Double your money! Woot.  Hopefully lots of people clued into this.
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July 14, 2014, 06:51:02 PM
 #9097

the coin never moved from mintpal, hacker got nothing, thats the whole point of this.

VeriCoin 8million - thief 0
AKA: The coins were never stolen...  MintPal screwed up and lost their private keys, or something similar.

It's by and far a more reasonable explanation then any of the bullshit stories from MintPal and the VRC devs.

VRC - we bail out exchanges when they fuck up, and the cost of blockchain integrity.
MintPal - declared too big to fail by VRC.

It's like fiat in a crypto, lol...

Just curious. Is becoming mainstream bad? Because I don't see bitcoin getting any bigger without continued media attention. What do you prefer the next crypto related headline be?

Another in a long line of failures from the crypto community? Or a success?

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July 14, 2014, 06:52:41 PM
 #9098

Alright everyone lets try and get ready, looks like on twitter they are getting the wallets ready and say its fixing the issues.

After everything is settled, those of you who wish for more clarity can join the google hangout hosted by VeriCoin developers.

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July 14, 2014, 06:52:55 PM
 #9099

R.I.P

Predicted price after the hardfork: 1 satoshi - assuming anyone is willing to trade this crap.

Can't believe the devs are so short sighted. You can't interfere with coins moving from one place to another. Stolen or not. This opens a bad precedent. People, whoever of you loses any coins make sure to contact the devs they will gladly hardfork the coin for you! They are so caring! Not...

Hardforking is admitting this is a P&D scheme. Hardforking is admitting that this is no currency, this is a toy in the hands of Mintpal and the devs.
It's against the nature and spirit of crypto currency. Why does an exchange dictate the shape of the blockchain? It's a disastrous and ill situation!

If the exchanges weren't greedy they could keep some sort of a insurance to pay people back in bitcoins for their losses. They make hundreds of bitcoins from transactions fees.

I am sure all the people who have been happily trading this "coin" post incident on other exchanges, that were not aware of the hardfork are going to be very happy the moment they notice that any legitimate trading they have done is going to vanish to thin air!

http://images.rapgenius.com/bmyad5iaf56zyh3kgtrreivxd.457x189x19.gif
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July 14, 2014, 06:55:00 PM
 #9100

They are protecting the currency, Bitcoin had a 184 billion block created.

It was a unique situation at the time, It was worked out and bitcoin grew.


VeriCoin is the first to break the trend of accepting exchange failures that HURT THE COMMUNITY.


Why? Because they are capable and can, I dont know if any other crypto has had this oppertunity due to the fact they are too decentralized (btc), or incapable (bc). They never had the ability to act quick.  Ever thought about that? Maybe there is a good balance for centralization and decetralization that could work and bring in more people?

Not everything / everyone wants to be decentralized all the time. Its sad crypto puts itself in this box. I got nothing to hide. do you?

This coin will be bigger than ever.

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████ - freecrypto.top - btcinfo.top - DIGITAL CURRENCY DIRECTORIES - freeMonero.comfunbtc.xyz  ████
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