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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1349955 times)
barabbas
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July 15, 2014, 06:26:28 PM
 #9781

I don't think you got my meaning at all... I find worrysome that SO MANY coins are in fact staking already, not to mention the many more that are in cool down status. VRC, in order to be successful, has to be widely available for trading and for purchasing of goods. Staking is hoarding and would signal, if in excessive amounts (and those 13 million plus the cooling down ones ARE excessive) to total lack of liquidity... which would be extraordinarily worrysome.

I hope that number decreases very quickly and full liquidity returns to the trading markets and the availability for purchasing when VRC returns to normal.

Ahhh, I understand. With English not being your native language, your posts are sometimes hard to follow. I get where you're coming from now, however.
barabbas, very high staking amounts would only be worrisome for someone who is not in Vericoin and wants to come in with alot of money.  High stake amounts create a price effect similar to a low float stock like Tesla motors.  Since not many Vericoin owners are willing to sell shares, the only variable that can adjust is the price, which is upwards.  So if you want to buy lots of Vericoin and you are worried that the staking is moving up too fast even before all the MintGox coins come out, then you might want to consider loading up on your Vericoin position now.  Just my advice.

A tremendously high staking level combined with good developments from the conference could cause the price to increase very rapidly and strongly upwards.  Yet another reason EVERYONE SHOULD BE STAKING ALL THEIR COINS ALL THE TIME.  Plus it secures the network against 51% attacks.

I understand your focus on the price. But I believe you may be quite wrong in your current assessment. If you take a look at the books at Bittrex, where all the volume is right now, you will see very big amounts of VRC available for purchase... and practically no bids of significance. This doesn't mean there are no buyers, they are, they simply don't make significant bids and buy at the ask.

But This has nothing to do with me personally, I already own some VRC and don't want to purchase any more for now. This has to do with the fact that hoarding of coins is a NEGATIVE for the coin, not a positive, regardless of the effect on the price.

Now, considering that -in my opinion- the Black Hand controls 4.5 million coins at least, the network needs significantly more than 13 million coins staking to be relatively secure... but that is entirely another subject.
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July 15, 2014, 06:37:38 PM
 #9782

I don't think you got my meaning at all... I find worrysome that SO MANY coins are in fact staking already, not to mention the many more that are in cool down status. VRC, in order to be successful, has to be widely available for trading and for purchasing of goods. Staking is hoarding and would signal, if in excessive amounts (and those 13 million plus the cooling down ones ARE excessive) to total lack of liquidity... which would be extraordinarily worrysome.

I hope that number decreases very quickly and full liquidity returns to the trading markets and the availability for purchasing when VRC returns to normal.

Ahhh, I understand. With English not being your native language, your posts are sometimes hard to follow. I get where you're coming from now, however.
barabbas, very high staking amounts would only be worrisome for someone who is not in Vericoin and wants to come in with alot of money.  High stake amounts create a price effect similar to a low float stock like Tesla motors.  Since not many Vericoin owners are willing to sell shares, the only variable that can adjust is the price, which is upwards.  So if you want to buy lots of Vericoin and you are worried that the staking is moving up too fast even before all the MintGox coins come out, then you might want to consider loading up on your Vericoin position now.  Just my advice.

A tremendously high staking level combined with good developments from the conference could cause the price to increase very rapidly and strongly upwards.  Yet another reason EVERYONE SHOULD BE STAKING ALL THEIR COINS ALL THE TIME.  Plus it secures the network against 51% attacks.

I understand your focus on the price. But I believe you may be quite wrong in your current assessment. If you take a look at the books at Bittrex, where all the volume is right now, you will see very big amounts of VRC available for purchase... and practically no bids of significance. This doesn't mean there are no buyers, they are, they simply don't make significant bids and buy at the ask.

But This has nothing to do with me personally, I already own some VRC and don't want to purchase any more for now. This has to do with the fact that hoarding of coins is a NEGATIVE for the coin, not a positive, regardless of the effect on the price.

Now, considering that -in my opinion- the Black Hand controls 4.5 million coins at least, the network needs significantly more than 13 million coins staking to be relatively secure... but that is entirely another subject.
We are moving to an economics discussion and while some like to believe that "hoarding" hurts a coin, i just don't think that it is ever an issue.  More like just  a talking point.  

For example, India hoards gold and that has been positive for Gold's longevity as a store of value and it's price.  Debeers "hoards" Diamonds and they have for multiple generations maintained an extremely high price for something that many would see as a worthless rock that isn't even rare.......all due to the effect of reducing the supply to the market.  OPEC hoards OIL......CEO's have locked up supplies of shares by owning a high percentage of shares and not selling so the price adjusts higher to those who are willing to sell at that higher price.  Believe me, even with EVERYONE STAKING, as the price of Vericoin goes higher, people will still sell as they see fit.  Given how we know there are those bent on hurting Vericoin and how close we all came to getting 51% attacked....I think everyone should be staking all their coins simply to protect the coin.  Drying up the selling supply is always good and it worked extremely well for Darkcoin as well.  The amount of examples of smart men reducing supply to increase value throughout history is endless.

Lastly, we all have Veribit for Pete's sake.  We can all spend our Vericoins as BTC right from our staking wallet!  We have no need to send to an exchange to convert to BTC then send back to a BTC wallet before buying something.  JUST BUY WHEN YOU WANT TO DIRECTLY FROM YOUR STAKING WALLET.  There is no excuse for not staking all the coins.  Plus you earn more interest.  It's a no brainer.
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July 15, 2014, 06:38:48 PM
 #9783

mintpal will re-adding vrc ?

I hope not...i lost my faith in MP. But it will come back i guess.

Need BadAss Bulletproof VPS or Bulletproof VPN or why not just mail safe with Safe-Mail. We care about your privacy.
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July 15, 2014, 06:40:37 PM
 #9784

Wind your neck in "truth4crypto"

same goes for you "buy4crypto"

Since I assume you're the same person.

WHAT? excuse me? I don't have 1 other alias, I am a firm supporter of this community. I am not going to go make up anything. I only speak truth. Sorry if you think I am someone else. I am me, and thats IT.

So this is your true colors. I didn't directly attack you at any point. I made a vague statement and you assumed it was an attack on you because I mentioned that a gambling site isn't a service to the community. I personally messaged you and appologized for the mistake. It probably was rude. But I handled that in private. You go accusing me in a public forum of something as outlandish as that? ARE YOU SERIOUS??? No respect for you anymore. AT ALL Leckey. No wonder your pushing your gamblin site all over, scumbag

I'm waiting for you LECKEY to private message me... AND to say something in public since your accusation to clarify why you chose to slander me out of all the random people who could make a alias with 0 activity? What was the true purpose of slandering me?

So everyone is clear. I have no reason to make alias's. This is the only bitcointalk forum ID I have / use. Thats not a clever way to word it incase somehow I mispoke. I have 1 account here in this forum and this is it.

This is a clear attack on my reputation. If you know who leckey is I am sure you understand my concern. TY for clearing this up... SOON before FUD gets started.



Or maybe I should start some FUD, Did you make that account LECKEY? You where quick to point fingers at me? I REALLY want to know. You seemed mad about the way the developers handled things, Probably because you had a lot of micro bets on your GAMBLING site. So you make up a fake account to cause FUD?

If you have a network of gambling sites. I see how this could set a bad precedent for you. Maybe you had motivation to do that. Sounds logical.

Regardless of whether or not you two are or aren't the same person. It's irrelevant. I told you to wind your neck in. Which you obviously still need to heed.
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July 15, 2014, 06:46:11 PM
 #9785

Not sure if this was posted yet or not, hard to keep up with this thread sometimes





VeriCoin Developer Speaks with CCN on MintPal Hardfork


When you all first found out MintPal was attacked, what was your initial response?


Well, there are three things you can do then.

Option One: You can do nothing, which means the guy who stole the coins can get 30 percent of all the VeriCoins. He can do whatever he wants with it, which includes staking it and having a 51 percent attack.

Option two: You can take that information and hope that he doesn’t send it before you can patch the wallet code to block any transactions coming from his address; shrinking the market cap by 8 million coins. It would leave MintPal without those coins, and they would have to reimburse their users. That was an option we took really seriously actually. Another thing you can do as part of that option is add in the code to allow the developers to mine the coin back and send them to MintPal.

That’s trivial though because it would’ve taken a lot of time to do. I suspect that if we took the time to do that, the hackers would have already sent the coin out and sold it. But that was an option, and that’s an option that Libertycoin took when they blocked the developer’s hidden premine. It had been done before, and it had worked, but we didn’t know if it would work for VeriCoin. It would have taken a few days to research how to do it effectively with the Proof-of-Stake system we have.

The third option was to go back on the blockchain to a point before the transaction and send the coins out from the same inputs quickly to a new address before they could be sent out again by the hacker if he has private keys. So that’s the option we took.

On the hardfork.

It’s really unfortunate. Hardforking the blockchain is something that no one wants to do, and no one has done for a reason like this before. We’re the first coin to do this, which is kind of weird in some ways but also kind of awesome in others. We did it because we really care about people that have the coin, but the main reason is that we didn’t want people to attack the coin at their leisure in the future.

Some people accused us of dealing at MintPal, but it’s not like that. If we don’t do this, we’re going to get attacked possibly someday, then it’s no good, and no one will ever use it again. If we hardfork and people don’t like it, then the coin’s dead anyway. The worst option was to do nothing because it guarantees VeriCoin dies.

People are worried that this might set precedent for other coins to respond the same. An example would be if Bitcoin did this when Mt.Gox happened.

Bitcoin has forked two times, significantly. One was in 2010 when someone was able to mint billions of Bitcoins. They had to go back 100 transactions and reset the chain. Thankfully, the network was really small then, and all the developers had to do was get to the big pools and tell them to update their codes. Bitcoin was really small, and no one cared about it, so it didn’t get much attention.

The second event was where Bitcoin was updating from, I believe, 0.7 to 0.8. People didn’t like the 0.8 change, so some people didn’t move over. Basically, they were competing on two parallel chains for a long time. Eventually, the developers decided to revert back to 0.7.

When people say we’re abusing our power, that’s fine; they can say what they want to. I don’t think of it that way, because we were going out of our way to prevent the coin from dying off. Most of the people who are critical of this are people that don’t own it and are people that want another coin to succeed. They attack every coin and right now it’s a good opportunity to attack VeriCoin.

------

There is more, read the full article @ http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/vericoin-developer-speaks-ccn-mintpal-hardfork/2014/07/15

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July 15, 2014, 07:02:23 PM
 #9786

PRICE IS FALLING

I know fan boys would find all kinds of excuses, of course, when, in reality, it is a simple logical -and I'd say temporarily at least, inevitable reaction-, but the truth is clear: Price is falling significantly in Bittrex. Currently around 32k which is roughly 22% from where it was before trading was initially halted. And, as far as Bittrex goes, or quite high volume during the last 24 hours.

I would imagine that a lot of people is wanting out right now for two reasons: One, to stay away and protect their investments until the smoke clears out and Two, because even if they still believe in VRC, as most do, they expect to have the opportunity to buy back in cheaper. It is absolutely normal and, again, I'd say inevitable.

Longer term? I am quite sure VRC will greatly benefit from the events we have just lived through and the mainstream reaction will start to be hinted at after the coming Chicago show over the weekend.

It would be quite nice if a hangout could be organized BEFORE the weekend to clear the air for the community as soon as possible, though. I hope it will happen.

Actually, I'm surprised that the price has stayed in the 30s. I expected a more significant drop in price and then a recovery.

The hangout is scheduled for tonight at 10pm Eastern time.

Thank you for the info on the hangout.

I believe the more significant drop will happen when the scared shitless traders get their coins back from MintPal. That would be the logical initial reaction, I think.

I don't have any vrc atm, but I find it how funny and clear your agenda is.  They will never see you coming.

The new smoothie has arrived keeping vrc at the top of the forums list.  Welcome!

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July 15, 2014, 07:20:03 PM
 #9787

PRICE IS FALLING

I know fan boys would find all kinds of excuses, of course, when, in reality, it is a simple logical -and I'd say temporarily at least, inevitable reaction-, but the truth is clear: Price is falling significantly in Bittrex. Currently around 32k which is roughly 22% from where it was before trading was initially halted. And, as far as Bittrex goes, or quite high volume during the last 24 hours.

I would imagine that a lot of people is wanting out right now for two reasons: One, to stay away and protect their investments until the smoke clears out and Two, because even if they still believe in VRC, as most do, they expect to have the opportunity to buy back in cheaper. It is absolutely normal and, again, I'd say inevitable.

Longer term? I am quite sure VRC will greatly benefit from the events we have just lived through and the mainstream reaction will start to be hinted at after the coming Chicago show over the weekend.

It would be quite nice if a hangout could be organized BEFORE the weekend to clear the air for the community as soon as possible, though. I hope it will happen.

Actually, I'm surprised that the price has stayed in the 30s. I expected a more significant drop in price and then a recovery.

The hangout is scheduled for tonight at 10pm Eastern time.

Thank you for the info on the hangout.

I believe the more significant drop will happen when the scared shitless traders get their coins back from MintPal. That would be the logical initial reaction, I think.

I don't have any vrc atm, but I find it how funny and clear your agenda is.  They will never see you coming.

The new smoothie has arrived keeping vrc at the top of the forums list.  Welcome!

My agenda? You must be some new kind of clairvoyant because I have no agenda whatsoever on VRC. I own a small amount, currently profitable. And, quite frankly, I don't care -although I'd prefer it would go much higher, of course-, what the price does in the next few days.

But tell me, so at least I will know what MY agenda is, please... If you can add your age that could be quite clarifying too...
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July 15, 2014, 07:29:13 PM
 #9788

Volume relatively low.  Major indicator will be Mintpal once online.

0.00031 Bittrix 213.2 BTC Volume
0.00031 Cryptsy 69.5 BTC Volume
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July 15, 2014, 07:36:07 PM
 #9789

Just noticed 5 million+ vrc was transferred a few blocks back, hope someone hasn't been hacked into again. Sad

That's down from 8M. It's Mintpal's coins they are distributing back to the owners now. Go backwards through the chain and you can see them distributing it.
I would like to give a big thank you to the VRC Dev team and the Dogecoin guy for so brilliantly making things right.  You guys not only saved Mintpal and everyone who had any type of crypto on that exchange but you also saved Vericoin from a 51% attack that would have assuredly killed the coin.  And I don't think you should even say that you will never do this again.  I think every criminal thief out there will think twice about stealing Vericoins now, because now we have proven that justice can be served in crypto.  Next we just have to get a better way of catching the criminals and sending them to jail too.  Smiley

p.s. Everyone please keep moving your coins off Mint and into your wallet.  Learn the practice of only putting your coins on an exchange for a few minutes when you need to exchange them.  Then right back to your wallet.  This will reduce your odds of getting MintGox'd by atleast 1000X.  It will also at the same time reduce the chances of the exchange getting targeted in the first place and will secure the entire Vericoin network from anyone planning a 51% attack.  Think of it as your duty.

I have posted several times that I also believe the devs acted wisely. But the gratitude for it would be quite excessive since their options were so limited that, in fact, there was nothing else they could do. Thanking someone for doing the only thing they could possibly do, is overkill, I'd say. Did they save the coin? obviously they did. But that benefits no one more than themselves -other than the Black Hand, of course, which is a very important consideration by the way-. If they did nothing, VRC couldn't exist today. Neither would MintPal... nor the BLACK HAND. And the reputations and the names of these devs would be ruined forever, while the same bar of transparency that they raised significantly with VRC, would actually prevent them from any position of significance, ever again, in crypto.

So the gratitude is far from warranted... even if, as is the case, I fully support what they were forced to do.

And on that note, I still fail to see - that's why I expect, anxiously, the addressing of the matter in the hangout-, the reason (or price, for VRC should benefit monetarily and in significant measure for it) for saving MintPal, obviously the element at fault besides the crooks. From ANY perspective, Mintpal, the responsible part for inadequately handling the coins they were entrusted with, is the overwhelming winner in this fiasco they allowed to happen. They would be bankrupt by now, without any doubt. Instead, they are still in business -although I hope people will rush out of Dodge on that regard and force them to close shop as of tomorrow- and their negligence hasn't cost them a penny, thanks to the VRC devs.

Accountability, unfortunately -along with flagrant fraud and thievery- continues to be dominant in cryptoworld. Even while the good guys, seemingly, have started to arrive.

Normal world regulation is so sorely needed...
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July 15, 2014, 07:37:57 PM
 #9790

someone can quickly update me about mintpal...any news?

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July 15, 2014, 07:52:22 PM
 #9791

someone can quickly update me about mintpal...any news?

Withdrawals being processed...no plans to open VRC/BTC market
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July 15, 2014, 07:58:03 PM
 #9792

Just noticed 5 million+ vrc was transferred a few blocks back, hope someone hasn't been hacked into again. Sad

That's down from 8M. It's Mintpal's coins they are distributing back to the owners now. Go backwards through the chain and you can see them distributing it.
I would like to give a big thank you to the VRC Dev team and the Dogecoin guy for so brilliantly making things right.  You guys not only saved Mintpal and everyone who had any type of crypto on that exchange but you also saved Vericoin from a 51% attack that would have assuredly killed the coin.  And I don't think you should even say that you will never do this again.  I think every criminal thief out there will think twice about stealing Vericoins now, because now we have proven that justice can be served in crypto.  Next we just have to get a better way of catching the criminals and sending them to jail too.  Smiley

p.s. Everyone please keep moving your coins off Mint and into your wallet.  Learn the practice of only putting your coins on an exchange for a few minutes when you need to exchange them.  Then right back to your wallet.  This will reduce your odds of getting MintGox'd by atleast 1000X.  It will also at the same time reduce the chances of the exchange getting targeted in the first place and will secure the entire Vericoin network from anyone planning a 51% attack.  Think of it as your duty.

I have posted several times that I also believe the devs acted wisely. But the gratitude for it would be quite excessive since their options were so limited that, in fact, there was nothing else they could do. Thanking someone for doing the only thing they could possibly do, is overkill, I'd say. Did they save the coin? obviously they did. But that benefits no one more than themselves -other than the Black Hand, of course, which is a very important consideration by the way-. If they did nothing, VRC couldn't exist today. Neither would MintPal... nor the BLACK HAND. And the reputations and the names of these devs would be ruined forever, while the same bar of transparency that they raised significantly with VRC, would actually prevent them from any position of significance, ever again, in crypto.

So the gratitude is far from warranted... even if, as is the case, I fully support what they were forced to do.

And on that note, I still fail to see - that's why I expect, anxiously, the addressing of the matter in the hangout-, the reason (or price, for VRC should benefit monetarily and in significant measure for it) for saving MintPal, obviously the element at fault besides the crooks. From ANY perspective, Mintpal, the responsible part for inadequately handling the coins they were entrusted with, is the overwhelming winner in this fiasco they allowed to happen. They would be bankrupt by now, without any doubt. Instead, they are still in business -although I hope people will rush out of Dodge on that regard and force them to close shop as of tomorrow- and their negligence hasn't cost them a penny, thanks to the VRC devs.

Accountability, unfortunately -along with flagrant fraud and thievery- continues to be dominant in cryptoworld. Even while the good guys, seemingly, have started to arrive.

Normal world regulation is so sorely needed...

Let's make some math:
- Mintpal's daily volume was around BTC 2.5K, some BTC 5 daily revenues or US$ 2500 (based on 0.2% transaction fee)
- VRC 8M were valued at some US$1.65M
- This means some 660 days of MintPal's revenues
- Let's assume some VRC 12K coins as an average position
- This means some 660 people were holding their coins at MP

Conclusions:
1) MP would never be able to pay and would go bankrupt
2) As an immediate consequence, all 660 VRC holders would loose their money
3) With 30% of VRC coins out there available for further attacks, VRC would crash and all people holding it would loose their money

So, please, let not fool ourselves: It was not about saving MintPal. It was about saving the coin and the investors' money.
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July 15, 2014, 08:13:44 PM
 #9793

It was about saving the coin and the investors' money.

I agree with the saving the coin bit, not the saving investors' money bit - that shouldn't even come into it as it's not the devs responsibility to look after people's misplaced investments.

But yes, I see why they did it to save the coin
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July 15, 2014, 08:16:29 PM
 #9794

Wow. I dumped all my coins, expecting a huge dump. But I must say its hodl out quite well.

I think I'm waiting for a little lower prices before looking to hoover up a few more.

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July 15, 2014, 08:17:55 PM
 #9795

Just noticed 5 million+ vrc was transferred a few blocks back, hope someone hasn't been hacked into again. Sad

That's down from 8M. It's Mintpal's coins they are distributing back to the owners now. Go backwards through the chain and you can see them distributing it.
I would like to give a big thank you to the VRC Dev team and the Dogecoin guy for so brilliantly making things right.  You guys not only saved Mintpal and everyone who had any type of crypto on that exchange but you also saved Vericoin from a 51% attack that would have assuredly killed the coin.  And I don't think you should even say that you will never do this again.  I think every criminal thief out there will think twice about stealing Vericoins now, because now we have proven that justice can be served in crypto.  Next we just have to get a better way of catching the criminals and sending them to jail too.  Smiley

p.s. Everyone please keep moving your coins off Mint and into your wallet.  Learn the practice of only putting your coins on an exchange for a few minutes when you need to exchange them.  Then right back to your wallet.  This will reduce your odds of getting MintGox'd by atleast 1000X.  It will also at the same time reduce the chances of the exchange getting targeted in the first place and will secure the entire Vericoin network from anyone planning a 51% attack.  Think of it as your duty.

I have posted several times that I also believe the devs acted wisely. But the gratitude for it would be quite excessive since their options were so limited that, in fact, there was nothing else they could do. Thanking someone for doing the only thing they could possibly do, is overkill, I'd say. Did they save the coin? obviously they did. But that benefits no one more than themselves -other than the Black Hand, of course, which is a very important consideration by the way-. If they did nothing, VRC couldn't exist today. Neither would MintPal... nor the BLACK HAND. And the reputations and the names of these devs would be ruined forever, while the same bar of transparency that they raised significantly with VRC, would actually prevent them from any position of significance, ever again, in crypto.

So the gratitude is far from warranted... even if, as is the case, I fully support what they were forced to do.

And on that note, I still fail to see - that's why I expect, anxiously, the addressing of the matter in the hangout-, the reason (or price, for VRC should benefit monetarily and in significant measure for it) for saving MintPal, obviously the element at fault besides the crooks. From ANY perspective, Mintpal, the responsible part for inadequately handling the coins they were entrusted with, is the overwhelming winner in this fiasco they allowed to happen. They would be bankrupt by now, without any doubt. Instead, they are still in business -although I hope people will rush out of Dodge on that regard and force them to close shop as of tomorrow- and their negligence hasn't cost them a penny, thanks to the VRC devs.

Accountability, unfortunately -along with flagrant fraud and thievery- continues to be dominant in cryptoworld. Even while the good guys, seemingly, have started to arrive.

Normal world regulation is so sorely needed...

Let's make some math:
- Mintpal's daily volume was around BTC 2.5K, some BTC 5 daily revenues or US$ 2500 (based on 0.2% transaction fee)
- VRC 8M were valued at some US$1.65M
- This means some 660 days of MintPal's revenues
- Let's assume some VRC 12K coins as an average position
- This means some 660 people were holding their coins at MP

Conclusions:
1) MP would never be able to pay and would go bankrupt
2) As an immediate consequence, all 660 VRC holders would loose their money
3) With 30% of VRC coins out there available for further attacks, VRC would crash and all people holding it would loose their money

So, please, let not fool ourselves: It was not about saving MintPal. It was about saving the coin and the investors' money.

Wow! That's horrible of them! Saving their coin and investor's money! What kind of a world do we live in where people are allowed to make such heinous attacks against the very fabric of cryptocurrencies </sarcasm>
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July 15, 2014, 08:33:49 PM
 #9796

Just noticed 5 million+ vrc was transferred a few blocks back, hope someone hasn't been hacked into again. Sad

That's down from 8M. It's Mintpal's coins they are distributing back to the owners now. Go backwards through the chain and you can see them distributing it.
I would like to give a big thank you to the VRC Dev team and the Dogecoin guy for so brilliantly making things right.  You guys not only saved Mintpal and everyone who had any type of crypto on that exchange but you also saved Vericoin from a 51% attack that would have assuredly killed the coin.  And I don't think you should even say that you will never do this again.  I think every criminal thief out there will think twice about stealing Vericoins now, because now we have proven that justice can be served in crypto.  Next we just have to get a better way of catching the criminals and sending them to jail too.  Smiley

p.s. Everyone please keep moving your coins off Mint and into your wallet.  Learn the practice of only putting your coins on an exchange for a few minutes when you need to exchange them.  Then right back to your wallet.  This will reduce your odds of getting MintGox'd by atleast 1000X.  It will also at the same time reduce the chances of the exchange getting targeted in the first place and will secure the entire Vericoin network from anyone planning a 51% attack.  Think of it as your duty.

I have posted several times that I also believe the devs acted wisely. But the gratitude for it would be quite excessive since their options were so limited that, in fact, there was nothing else they could do. Thanking someone for doing the only thing they could possibly do, is overkill, I'd say. Did they save the coin? obviously they did. But that benefits no one more than themselves -other than the Black Hand, of course, which is a very important consideration by the way-. If they did nothing, VRC couldn't exist today. Neither would MintPal... nor the BLACK HAND. And the reputations and the names of these devs would be ruined forever, while the same bar of transparency that they raised significantly with VRC, would actually prevent them from any position of significance, ever again, in crypto.

So the gratitude is far from warranted... even if, as is the case, I fully support what they were forced to do.

And on that note, I still fail to see - that's why I expect, anxiously, the addressing of the matter in the hangout-, the reason (or price, for VRC should benefit monetarily and in significant measure for it) for saving MintPal, obviously the element at fault besides the crooks. From ANY perspective, Mintpal, the responsible part for inadequately handling the coins they were entrusted with, is the overwhelming winner in this fiasco they allowed to happen. They would be bankrupt by now, without any doubt. Instead, they are still in business -although I hope people will rush out of Dodge on that regard and force them to close shop as of tomorrow- and their negligence hasn't cost them a penny, thanks to the VRC devs.

Accountability, unfortunately -along with flagrant fraud and thievery- continues to be dominant in cryptoworld. Even while the good guys, seemingly, have started to arrive.

Normal world regulation is so sorely needed...

Let's make some math:
- Mintpal's daily volume was around BTC 2.5K, some BTC 5 daily revenues or US$ 2500 (based on 0.2% transaction fee)
- VRC 8M were valued at some US$1.65M
- This means some 660 days of MintPal's revenues
- Let's assume some VRC 12K coins as an average position
- This means some 660 people were holding their coins at MP

Conclusions:
1) MP would never be able to pay and would go bankrupt
2) As an immediate consequence, all 660 VRC holders would loose their money
3) With 30% of VRC coins out there available for further attacks, VRC would crash and all people holding it would loose their money

So, please, let not fool ourselves: It was not about saving MintPal. It was about saving the coin and the investors' money.

Wow! That's horrible of them! Saving their coin and investor's money! What kind of a world do we live in where people are allowed to make such heinous attacks against the very fabric of cryptocurrencies </sarcasm>

And why is nobody talking about the poor thief?  I mean his feeling are probably really hurt he didn't get to take millions from thousands of people.  VRC devs should be ashamed, taking hard earned money from a thief.

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July 15, 2014, 08:37:10 PM
 #9797

When be back Vericoin pool?Huh
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July 15, 2014, 08:40:30 PM
 #9798

Just noticed 5 million+ vrc was transferred a few blocks back, hope someone hasn't been hacked into again. Sad

That's down from 8M. It's Mintpal's coins they are distributing back to the owners now. Go backwards through the chain and you can see them distributing it.
I would like to give a big thank you to the VRC Dev team and the Dogecoin guy for so brilliantly making things right.  You guys not only saved Mintpal and everyone who had any type of crypto on that exchange but you also saved Vericoin from a 51% attack that would have assuredly killed the coin.  And I don't think you should even say that you will never do this again.  I think every criminal thief out there will think twice about stealing Vericoins now, because now we have proven that justice can be served in crypto.  Next we just have to get a better way of catching the criminals and sending them to jail too.  Smiley

p.s. Everyone please keep moving your coins off Mint and into your wallet.  Learn the practice of only putting your coins on an exchange for a few minutes when you need to exchange them.  Then right back to your wallet.  This will reduce your odds of getting MintGox'd by atleast 1000X.  It will also at the same time reduce the chances of the exchange getting targeted in the first place and will secure the entire Vericoin network from anyone planning a 51% attack.  Think of it as your duty.

I have posted several times that I also believe the devs acted wisely. But the gratitude for it would be quite excessive since their options were so limited that, in fact, there was nothing else they could do. Thanking someone for doing the only thing they could possibly do, is overkill, I'd say. Did they save the coin? obviously they did. But that benefits no one more than themselves -other than the Black Hand, of course, which is a very important consideration by the way-. If they did nothing, VRC couldn't exist today. Neither would MintPal... nor the BLACK HAND. And the reputations and the names of these devs would be ruined forever, while the same bar of transparency that they raised significantly with VRC, would actually prevent them from any position of significance, ever again, in crypto.

So the gratitude is far from warranted... even if, as is the case, I fully support what they were forced to do.

And on that note, I still fail to see - that's why I expect, anxiously, the addressing of the matter in the hangout-, the reason (or price, for VRC should benefit monetarily and in significant measure for it) for saving MintPal, obviously the element at fault besides the crooks. From ANY perspective, Mintpal, the responsible part for inadequately handling the coins they were entrusted with, is the overwhelming winner in this fiasco they allowed to happen. They would be bankrupt by now, without any doubt. Instead, they are still in business -although I hope people will rush out of Dodge on that regard and force them to close shop as of tomorrow- and their negligence hasn't cost them a penny, thanks to the VRC devs.

Accountability, unfortunately -along with flagrant fraud and thievery- continues to be dominant in cryptoworld. Even while the good guys, seemingly, have started to arrive.

Normal world regulation is so sorely needed...

Let's make some math:
- Mintpal's daily volume was around BTC 2.5K, some BTC 5 daily revenues or US$ 2500 (based on 0.2% transaction fee)
- VRC 8M were valued at some US$1.65M
- This means some 660 days of MintPal's revenues
- Let's assume some VRC 12K coins as an average position
- This means some 660 people were holding their coins at MP

Conclusions:
1) MP would never be able to pay and would go bankrupt
2) As an immediate consequence, all 660 VRC holders would loose their money
3) With 30% of VRC coins out there available for further attacks, VRC would crash and all people holding it would loose their money

So, please, let not fool ourselves: It was not about saving MintPal. It was about saving the coin and the investors' money.

Wow! That's horrible of them! Saving their coin and investor's money! What kind of a world do we live in where people are allowed to make such heinous attacks against the very fabric of cryptocurrencies </sarcasm>

And why is nobody talking about the poor thief?  I mean his feeling are probably really hurt he didn't get to take millions from thousands of people.  VRC devs should be ashamed, taking hard earned money from a thief.

Yeah, and think about his efforts too, the hard work he put into this - where is his hard earned reward now?
I really feel so much sympathy for him. /s

BTW, bought me some VRC today and will continue to add. Go vericoin!  \o/
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July 15, 2014, 08:43:00 PM
 #9799


People are worried that this might set precedent for other coins to respond the same. An example would be if Bitcoin did this when Mt.Gox happened.

Bitcoin has forked two times, significantly. One was in 2010 when someone was able to mint billions of Bitcoins. They had to go back 100 transactions and reset the chain. Thankfully, the network was really small then, and all the developers had to do was get to the big pools and tell them to update their codes. Bitcoin was really small, and no one cared about it, so it didn’t get much attention.

The second event was where Bitcoin was updating from, I believe, 0.7 to 0.8. People didn’t like the 0.8 change, so some people didn’t move over. Basically, they were competing on two parallel chains for a long time. Eventually, the developers decided to revert back to 0.7.

When people say we’re abusing our power, that’s fine; they can say what they want to. I don’t think of it that way, because we were going out of our way to prevent the coin from dying off. Most of the people who are critical of this are people that don’t own it and are people that want another coin to succeed. They attack every coin and right now it’s a good opportunity to attack VeriCoin.

------

There is more, read the full article @ http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/vericoin-developer-speaks-ccn-mintpal-hardfork/2014/07/15



That is the mos important part.
The dev decided to make a change but the people didn't.
And in the end it was the users that decided the which chain was the right one.

Here there was decision taken by a few to protect a business , nothing more.
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July 15, 2014, 08:46:13 PM
 #9800

From here forward I will use 'we' as in 'crypto'

We have the ability, to undo unjust massive criminal actions.
We have the ability to stand up and fight for the rights of people.
We have the ability to make ground breaking decisions for the positive side of things finally.
We have the ability to CHOOSE if we do not like something and move on.
We have the ability to let the people determine the fate of when an exchange when they ever so blatantly disregards their own statements regarding security, by choosing to not use them.
We have the ability to not let a thief become a centralized , determining factor of a project.
We do not have to take a beating from others lacking judgement when so many could/would have been affected.
We do NOT have to mimic and or follow in the footsteps of others every move , just because 'they' would or wouldn't because they were the 1st to create an idea or movement. (yes I am implying BTC here)

We are in a revolution, and revolutionary progress, is not simply not following an old path, it requires leadership , that make fast, appropriate and responsive decisions that would affect masses, both good & bad.

I for one am proud, that the team involved with VRC, had the moral capability to step outside the box that 'some' seem trapped in, to make a difficult decision.

Walking behind others will never lead you down a new path where evolution is detrimental to success.

Everyone, enjoy your day.
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