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Question: Where would you prefer the VRC/VRM exchange pair be?
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Poloniex
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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1346479 times)
monsanto
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..like bright metal on a sullen ground.


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July 15, 2014, 04:29:04 AM
 #9401



You're not supposed to have to trust the devs. Open source means you don't have to trust them. It's not a rule. There are no rules. But when you have a coin that A) has a network that is dangerously centralized. PoS coin having that large of a percentage of its coins supply on an exchange wallet is messed up. It's so much worse than Ghash.Io and such. Then B) you have coins that are secure and are open source which don't require trusting the devs that offer the same functionality except maybe a couple gimmicky centralized features ... it reeks. Sorry it does. If you're a holder learn from it.


I would say the aim is to have better functionality.  I see no reason why people if given a choice might not opt for some level of centralization, nor is there any law of nature that this would lead to less utility or danger to the end user or economy using it.  Both systems seem so far to have major weaknesses. The reason for decentralization, for most users, is to provide this functionality by getting around currency laws. I think it is likely that the creators of bitcoin had experience and were involved in previous more centralized currency projects that ran into trouble with those laws.  In short, if you're decentralized, who gets sued? who goes to jail? it confuses legal systems. It could be that the most effective coins are the ones that can maintain the maximum level of centralization without creating an indefensible legal situation. Or perhaps the ones that maintain the most centralization in their infancy, before being launched as open source, at some critical stage. Nobody knows.  

In a darwinian sense I would expect those coins with devs willing to do things like roll back in extreme situations might propagate faster because they don't commit suicide.  Unless of course this mass ideaological backlash some are predicting against vrc occurs.  Anyway, it's all an experiment and a scam, time will tell who profits.    

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MrTowelie
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July 15, 2014, 04:29:38 AM
 #9402

Can I get some more addnode? Getting 0 network connections
healthandwealth
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July 15, 2014, 04:30:43 AM
 #9403

Has anyone withdrawn from Mintpal successfully?  I test withdrew 5 vericoin a hour ago to my newly downloaded and fully synced wallet (verision 1.3.3) and I have yet to receive anything.

Anyone else have this issue?  

It's not a matter of if.  It's a matter of when.
portice
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July 15, 2014, 04:31:35 AM
 #9404

Not invested in VRC at all, 0% stake.  This shit makes me sick though.  Your supporting an exchanges's incompetence and should be ashamed of yourselves.  I mean I get it, you guys are vested in it and want to support a coin you believe in, but this is certainly not the way you go about it.  Some positives will come out of this though as Mint will surely not keep those hot wallets so ripe.  And no, I am not "fudding", I'm not "trying to get coins cheap", I just believe in my opinion that this was the totally improper way to go about fixing an exchanges total fuck up and as a community, you took the easy way out.
Shinraven
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July 15, 2014, 04:33:27 AM
 #9405


If you look at the history chart for VRC's staking power network-wide, there was a massive drop off of millions in weight when the hack is claimed to have happened. They didn't stake, my ass. Also, the coins were wild out of Mintpal's control for over 10 hours, exchanges were not frozen - yet they sat at the same two withdrawal addresses and did not move at all, and the fork was done the next day. What hacker do you know that wouldn't sell a single coin after stealing it? Mintpal is full of shit. This all looks much more like they lost the coins somehow, perhaps by transferring to an inaccessible address, or overwriting files they shouldn'tve - something. If they lost $2 mil USD, they were facing UK prison - so they tell the VRC devs they got hacked, Nosker is pressured to save his network against the possibility of a single majority-staker, and the userbase for both VRC and Mintpal get to scratch their heads over what the real story is behind all the shadows and bullshit.

One thing is for sure, Mintpal failed due to negligence and/or incompetence, and they're being less than honest about the details of the issue and how they operate their business. Nosker's hand was a bit forced to save his coin, considering the circumstances - but one can't help but wonder what he knew. His argument about throwing up massive sell walls on the exchanges to "help investors" doesn't make much sense to me. Wouldn't he want BTC walls to prevent the price crashing? Seems odd. Anyway, fuck Mintpal, and shame VRC got dragged into it.

See this is the entire point. People are too cool with trusting devs and believing the first story they heard blah blah.

The entire point of crypto is that you don't have to trust anyone. And then you have these Veri bagholders defending and saying they prefer that all the Veri services are centralized cuz they want have a face they can trust.

It's supposed to be open-source, distributed not closed source and under their care. I don't get how more people arent calling this crap out.  

Hush ! grown men are talking !

Yes we trust the DEVS !

they have proven time and time again they are legit. Where the hell does it say everything has to be open source ? Since you are in crypto, do you like all the scams and P&D non sense that goes on, For once you get 3 talented devs whom by the way, have shown their faces in public, have done all they could to salvage investors from a robbery and continue to deliver day in and day out. Yet you have the nerves to come here and talk shit.

Now back in your hole !
sdmathis
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July 15, 2014, 04:33:55 AM
 #9406

It's amazing. All I had to do was put three people on "Ignore" and it cleaned this thread right up. I knew that the haters were in the minority, but I didn't realize just how small that minority was.

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July 15, 2014, 04:35:00 AM
 #9407

Has anyone withdrawn from Mintpal successfully?  I test withdrew 5 vericoin a hour ago to my newly downloaded and fully synced wallet (verision 1.3.3) and I have yet to receive anything.

Anyone else have this issue? 

no issue everything is working fine on my side.
tigerwood0432
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July 15, 2014, 04:37:45 AM
 #9408

Has anyone withdrawn from Mintpal successfully?  I test withdrew 5 vericoin a hour ago to my newly downloaded and fully synced wallet (verision 1.3.3) and I have yet to receive anything.

Anyone else have this issue?  

I just withdrew 40k vrc from mintpal to cryptsy (because i didn;t downloaded the wallet = worked fine for me (it took 35 minutes) . did you confirm your withdrawal with your email ?


▄███████████████████████████████████████████▄
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CryptoPay


  GET IT NOW
stormia
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July 15, 2014, 04:39:56 AM
 #9409

Can somebody please reply to this tweet from Bryce Weiner https://twitter.com/BryceWeiner/status/488813850331193344
with something along the lines of "Oh yeah, you're totally right- $4,000 is SOOOOO much more than $2,000,000 Roll Eyes"

I would but I don't have a twitter..
healthandwealth
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July 15, 2014, 04:40:21 AM
 #9410

Has anyone withdrawn from Mintpal successfully?  I test withdrew 5 vericoin a hour ago to my newly downloaded and fully synced wallet (verision 1.3.3) and I have yet to receive anything.

Anyone else have this issue?  

I just withdrew 40k vrc from mintpal to cryptsy (because i didn;t downloaded the wallet = worked fine for me (it took 35 minutes) . did you confirm your withdrawal with your email ?

Yes.  I noticed that in the 'Withdrawals' section of Mintpal the transaction says 'CONFIRMED' but not 'SUCCESSFUL'.  Perhaps it hasn't been processed yet.  I had a buddy test send me 1 Vericoin from his wallet and it arrived just fine.

It's not a matter of if.  It's a matter of when.
tigerwood0432
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July 15, 2014, 04:40:34 AM
 #9411

Not invested in VRC at all, 0% stake.  This shit makes me sick though.  Your supporting an exchanges's incompetence and should be ashamed of yourselves.  I mean I get it, you guys are vested in it and want to support a coin you believe in, but this is certainly not the way you go about it.  Some positives will come out of this though as Mint will surely not keep those hot wallets so ripe.  And no, I am not "fudding", I'm not "trying to get coins cheap", I just believe in my opinion that this was the totally improper way to go about fixing an exchanges total fuck up and as a community, you took the easy way out.

people didn't realize that rollback saved their asses = 1.45 million euros will put any exchanger down = so mintpal down = all crypto gone : zs , min , mint , btc , ltc ....etc = other exchnages will go down also = because they have transfers between them = it will be like subprim crisis with banks = pyramid = all exchanges will close . if you where at mintpal with 20 or 50 btc holdings and no rollback = you will be crying right now


▄███████████████████████████████████████████▄
█████████████████████████████████████████████
██username 12345█████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████
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▀███████████████████████████████████████████▀
CryptoPay


  GET IT NOW
neurorit
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July 15, 2014, 04:41:56 AM
 #9412



Hush ! grown men are talking !

Yes we trust the DEVS !

they have proven time and time again they are legit. Where the hell does it say everything has to be open source ? Since you are in crypto, do you like all the scams and P&D non sense that goes on, For once you get 3 talented devs whom by the way, have shown their faces in public, have done all they could to salvage investors from a robbery and continue to deliver day in and day out. Yet you have the nerves to come here and talk shit.

Now back in your hole !

hehe  Grin  

You're funny. There's always a guy just like in every rip off scamcoin thread I read.

I can't feel sorry for you when something goes wrong cause you want to trust them. They've been doing this how long? If you're into this coin for its functionality why not use paypal? I'm pretty sure any sane person would trust Paypal to some random 3 tard devs who constantly overuse and misuse the word decentralization so often when this coin is one of the least decentralized alts out. Overcompensating perhaps?

And I'm not talking just shit about the rollback. The entire coin is shit. VeriSend (privacy but you have to trust us hahaha since it's centeralized.. perfect example right there. So what if a government by way of coercion takes over that service? hmmm that's why you don't have a central point of failure!!!  you obviously don't get it. And either your devs don't get it or they're scammers. Either one is pretty likely in my book.
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July 15, 2014, 04:45:15 AM
 #9413

I don't have a problem with what they're adding or how they're doing it. But they should be doing it as a company not a decentralized currency.

I like it done as a decentralized currency, as all the current Vericoin users are able to vote with their wallets on what fork they are able to use (as stated in previous posts, other coins have forked as well).  It comes down to then what fork the miners and exchanges wish to use (which P2Pool and decentralized exchanges *should* be the way, people have voted with their wallets to continue to use Mining Pools and centralized exchanges).   People who are Vericoin users are choosing to upgrade rather than allow the coin to fail, the developers did not force this on any person, people can choose to stay on the stolen coin blockchain, things are still decentralized by that definition.

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July 15, 2014, 04:47:56 AM
 #9414

Mintpal has been veri lucky in this case that the decision taken by the vrc devs to make the hard fork saves them from may be bankrupcy. Pnosker and all the investors backing vericoin do not deserve to suffer a drop in their currency because of MP's fault. In return of the 2millions $ they didn't have to bail out, they should have to pay the price of maintaining the price of vericoin over 40k sat in compensation for their loophole in their business. That would be a small price for them to pay and  a way to thank the devs and their followers for having been detrimental to vericoin...

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July 15, 2014, 04:48:35 AM
 #9415

Not invested in VRC at all, 0% stake.  This shit makes me sick though.  Your supporting an exchanges's incompetence and should be ashamed of yourselves.  I mean I get it, you guys are vested in it and want to support a coin you believe in, but this is certainly not the way you go about it.  Some positives will come out of this though as Mint will surely not keep those hot wallets so ripe.  And no, I am not "fudding", I'm not "trying to get coins cheap", I just believe in my opinion that this was the totally improper way to go about fixing an exchanges total fuck up and as a community, you took the easy way out.

people didn't realize that rollback saved their asses = 1.45 million euros will put any exchanger down = so mintpal down = all crypto gone : zs , min , mint , btc , ltc ....etc = other exchnages will go down also = because they have transfers between them = it will be like subprim crisis with banks = pyramid = all exchanges will close . if you where at mintpal with 20 or 50 btc holdings and no rollback = you will be crying right now

Seriously man, put the pom poms down, christ, think about the possible implications of this.  Wouldn't be surprised if Mint loses alot of volume over this fiasco.  Mintpal down means nothing btw, someone is always there, ready to take over, there are always degens ready to trade alts, myself included and most are willing to take a flier with exchanges with some volume.
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July 15, 2014, 04:48:59 AM
 #9416

Not invested in VRC at all, 0% stake.  This shit makes me sick though.  Your supporting an exchanges's incompetence and should be ashamed of yourselves.  I mean I get it, you guys are vested in it and want to support a coin you believe in, but this is certainly not the way you go about it.  Some positives will come out of this though as Mint will surely not keep those hot wallets so ripe.  And no, I am not "fudding", I'm not "trying to get coins cheap", I just believe in my opinion that this was the totally improper way to go about fixing an exchanges total fuck up and as a community, you took the easy way out.

people didn't realize that rollback saved their asses = 1.45 million euros will put any exchanger down = so mintpal down = all crypto gone : zs , min , mint , btc , ltc ....etc = other exchnages will go down also = because they have transfers between them = it will be like subprim crisis with banks = pyramid = all exchanges will close . if you where at mintpal with 20 or 50 btc holdings and no rollback = you will be crying right now
Exactly this.  But greedy selfish people will never realize this.  VRC devs just saved every single Mintpal user all of their coins and prevented a potentially massive altcoin collapse in the process.
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July 15, 2014, 04:49:02 AM
 #9417

Not invested in VRC at all, 0% stake.  This shit makes me sick though.  Your supporting an exchanges's incompetence and should be ashamed of yourselves.  I mean I get it, you guys are vested in it and want to support a coin you believe in, but this is certainly not the way you go about it.  Some positives will come out of this though as Mint will surely not keep those hot wallets so ripe.  And no, I am not "fudding", I'm not "trying to get coins cheap", I just believe in my opinion that this was the totally improper way to go about fixing an exchanges total fuck up and as a community, you took the easy way out.

What are you blathering on about?    Mintpal was saved as a side effect of Vericoin needing to protect itself from the coin itself seeing death.   Mintpal got lucky, saving them was not the goal what so ever.   The end result is volume on that exchange can and should go down until better details on how this fuck up on their part was allowed to happen.   I won't say your post is FUD, just spouting ignorance without understanding the entirety of the situation.

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July 15, 2014, 04:53:02 AM
 #9418

In a darwinian sense I would expect those coins with devs willing to do things like roll back in extreme situations might propagate faster because they don't commit suicide.  Unless of course this mass ideaological backlash some are predicting against vrc occurs.

Backlash is better than suicide, the devs were put in a shit situation and did what they had to do as hard as it is to deal with users of other coins trying to push their ideals on what is right or wrong in this thread.

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July 15, 2014, 04:53:54 AM
 #9419

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.

What I'm talking about as far as them being a company and not a decentralized currency is centralized services. VeriBit, the wallet they're rolling out that you can load directly with fiat. Those should be done as an company otherwise your putting way too much trust into a few people. Central point failure, etc.

Also the example I made with verisend. You can't have a privacy service that's centralized. What if a government compromises it, it would defeat the entire purpose which is why we don't want a central point of failure, it's supposed to be distributed and trustless.

The forking believe it or not is the most decentralized thing about this coin because it was distributed consensus.

So I'm just saying these devs really like the word decentralized, it's ever where, and when you look into it's not really. Even the network wasn't very decentralized. So it just seems suspect to see the dev use that word so often/.

I don't have a problem with what they're adding or how they're doing it. But they should be doing it as a company not a decentralized currency.

I like it done as a decentralized currency, as all the current Vericoin users are able to vote with their wallets on what fork they are able to use (as stated in previous posts, other coins have forked as well).  It comes down to then what fork the miners and exchanges wish to use (which P2Pool and decentralized exchanges *should* be the way, people have voted with their wallets to continue to use Mining Pools and centralized exchanges).   People who are Vericoin users are choosing to upgrade rather than allow the coin to fail, the developers did not force this on any person, people can choose to stay on the stolen coin blockchain, things are still decentralized by that definition.
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July 15, 2014, 04:55:50 AM
 #9420

get ready to see vrc skyrocketing fudders, lol don't forget to panic buy
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