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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1346471 times)
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July 14, 2014, 10:54:35 AM
 #8781

The thing is serious and I believe that BigDaddyWooWoo, who is active on another thread is right. I quote:

Quote
The bigger problem in all this is the "rollback", or the ability to do so.  Crypto has a real world trust issue and this makes it 100 times worse.  If I am a merchant there is no way in hell now that I would accept digital currency as now I have no idea if I get to keep my money. If the ledger can be rolled back on a whim then decentralized currencies are dead.

M/C and Visa have this issue to an extent but they cannot roll back an entire public ledger for as far back as they want to go.  Also, they are already entrenched where crypto is just getting a foothold.

Fungibility is extremely important.  Trust is extremely important.  Confidence is extremely important.  This is not a Vericoin problem.  This is a digital currency problem.  This affects the entire cryptosphere. This is now our problem.

I am converting all my holdings to BTC and hoping that it will weather the storm.  If it begins to take a hit back to fiat I go.  It sucks but the bed has been made now.  Not being chicken little here, just being objective and safe with my investments.

This sums it up pretty much perfectly, yet instead of addressing the issue people are just labeling anyone that might affect their short term investment as 'butthurt' or 'crying like a baby'.
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July 14, 2014, 10:56:23 AM
 #8782

Developmental issue vs. Business Security Failure.

Worlds apart. Apples and oranges. lol

The solution is still the same even if the event is different. Were Mintpal's breach to have occurred to Bitcoin when it was in its infancy you know damn well it would have been dealt with the same way and everybody would have been cheering the dev team for stopping the thieves in their tracks. Just because the cryptocurrency world is now awash with multiple currencies who all wish to be as successful as VRC has been so far, this thread becomes a target for screaming ignorance and sky-is-falling hysteria.



Nope. MTGOX got hacked in June 2011 (infancy).

BTC-e was hacked in 2012 (infancy).

Neither time did Bitcoin devs roll back anything for those hacks.

Let me name drop on you some huge bitcoin scams that were never rolled back on: MyBitcoin.com, Bitcoinica, PirateAt40's Bitcoin Savings and Trust, ...and those were all in mid 2012 or prior.

So don't play this supposition that I the devs WOULD do something similar if Bitcoin was in its infancy. I just proved your point wrong.


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July 14, 2014, 10:56:37 AM
 #8783

Mintpal has not provided proof (as far as I am aware) they were indeed hacked and not just claimed to have been hacked.

This sets a precedent now.

I can see a user getting 20% of the coin supply in the future...selling them for BTC or buying something for VRC and after they get what they want they can just cry foul and ask for the devs to roll back the VRC blockchain because they claimed they had coins stolen that were of "substantial" amount.

This is a joke what happened today.

Oh shit, you've been here all day all night arguing about vericoin. Why so fucking concerned as you aren't even holding any VRC? We know your intentions, now get lost and let it be.

Obviously you know nothing.

My purpose here is to out the bullshit as much as some of you may want to suppress it.

But why? OH WHY? Why so concerned? You just lost a shit load of money on URO?

It is funny for you to reach and try to find something to insult me on.

Nope as I already said...it is purely and solely to out the bullshit that has gone on today for what it is.

You must be really butthurt. Idk why but it seems to be so Smiley Now ignore this fudster baby shit coin holder.

You're a fucking joke. I doubt smoothie would be butthurt by any alt except maybe ltc :p

Stop talking like you're big shit!
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July 14, 2014, 10:56:56 AM
 #8784

Like many others, I have a lot of Veri on Mint. The only reason its there, like everyone else, is to trade. No one uses Veri, so a rollback was feasible.

But it might have just fucked crypto in general.

What do you mean, you can rollback Bitcoin? That's what every government around the world will be told. That's what every bank is going to spell out as to why they won't allow crypto.

As soon as possible, I'm dumping my entire holding.

Stupid fucking decision.

Bye, where 1 crypto purist leaves, VeriCoin will take in many more mainstream people who wanted to be a part of the blockchain for years, but they could never get comfetorable with all the theft, not the whole centralized, decentralized BS that the purists think is nessisary for survival.

There is a reason bitcoin isn't growing as fast as it could. The purists hold it back trying to make it be something that it doesn't have to be to satisfy there agenda.

VeriCoin just created value for other people who once shied away from crypto due to people demanding that crypto are overcomplicated, and vulnerable.

VeriCoin proved there is a better way and the select few are mad? VeriCoin used the technology to avoid theft and secure its network, and this was bad?

Its irresposible to not use the resources at your disposal the technology allows, ONLY to cater to criminals, and purists. You see how they are close in the same? These people with computer skills want to keep it pure, so that they can control the power for the small %. As crypto grows more mainstream the computer geeks will lose more and more of the power they have. Scared much? VeriCoin proves that if your team is dilligent enough, and cares about its community that things can be done using the technology to strengthen a community and move forward a technology.

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July 14, 2014, 10:57:50 AM
 #8785


To the people saying: "they had to! so many coins too much for one person to own! they can attack the network!"
Just think about it.... those coins are being rolled back and going back to one entity.. Mintpal.
If it is unsafe in one entities hands, what does it matter if that entity is the hacker or Mintpal when it comes to the security of the network.

If the system inherently protects itself, as Bitcoin and all crypto's are allegedly designed to do, then it will protect itself in hands of hackers as well as exchanges. If more is to be gained by holding the stake than abusing the stake then all is safe.

If I was the hacker this is what I would do:
(Hacker take note)
I would send most of the coins to a ridiculous and inaccessible wallet called something like Mintpalsucksandhasnosecurity.
In that way you would destroy the coins, keeping a fee for showing this flaw to the community.
This would also negate the main reason for a rollback.


That is a very good question. I'd like to hear the answer to that.

Perhaps we have just witnessed the death of proof of stake coins - a wallet in an exchange can hold and stake such a large percentage they can execute their own attack on the network. Or someone who can hack and take control of that wallet could kill the coin. Centralized much?

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July 14, 2014, 10:58:20 AM
 #8786

The thing is serious and I believe that BigDaddyWooWoo, who is active on another thread is right. I quote:

Quote
The bigger problem in all this is the "rollback", or the ability to do so.  Crypto has a real world trust issue and this makes it 100 times worse.  If I am a merchant there is no way in hell now that I would accept digital currency as now I have no idea if I get to keep my money. If the ledger can be rolled back on a whim then decentralized currencies are dead.

M/C and Visa have this issue to an extent but they cannot roll back an entire public ledger for as far back as they want to go.  Also, they are already entrenched where crypto is just getting a foothold.

Fungibility is extremely important.  Trust is extremely important.  Confidence is extremely important.  This is not a Vericoin problem.  This is a digital currency problem.  This affects the entire cryptosphere. This is now our problem.

I am converting all my holdings to BTC and hoping that it will weather the storm.  If it begins to take a hit back to fiat I go.  It sucks but the bed has been made now.  Not being chicken little here, just being objective and safe with my investments.

This sums it up pretty much perfectly, yet instead of addressing the issue people are just labeling anyone that might affect their short term investment as 'butthurt' or 'crying like a baby'.

That is the tactic. Instead of having an adult conversation they divert attention to name calling, slander, insults, etc to get attention off of the real issue which is the roll back and how it is a huge fuck up.

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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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July 14, 2014, 10:58:34 AM
 #8787

Like many others, I have a lot of Veri on Mint. The only reason its there, like everyone else, is to trade. No one uses Veri, so a rollback was feasible.

But it might have just fucked crypto in general.

What do you mean, you can rollback Bitcoin? That's what every government around the world will be told. That's what every bank is going to spell out as to why they won't allow crypto.

As soon as possible, I'm dumping my entire holding.

Stupid fucking decision.

Bye, where 1 crypto purist leaves, VeriCoin will take in many more mainstream people who wanted to be a part of the blockchain for years, but they could never get comfetorable with all the theft, not the whole centralized, decentralized BS that the purists think is nessisary for survival.

There is a reason bitcoin isn't growing as fast as it could. The purists hold it back trying to make it be something that it doesn't have to be to satisfy there agenda.

VeriCoin just created value for other people who once shied away from crypto due to people demanding that crypto are overcomplicated, and vulnerable.

VeriCoin proved there is a better way and the select few are mad? VeriCoin used the technology to avoid theft and secure its network, and this was bad?

Its irresposible to not use the resources at your disposal the technology allows, ONLY to cater to criminals, and purists. You see how they are close in the same? These people with computer skills want to keep it pure, so that they can control the power for the small %. As crypto grows more mainstream the computer geeks will lose more and more of the power they have. Scared much? VeriCoin proves that if your team is dilligent enough, and cares about its community that things can be done using the technology to strengthen a community and move forward a technology.

Are you on drugs? This in NO WAY will help VRC! Never ever!
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July 14, 2014, 10:59:02 AM
 #8788

The thing is serious and I believe that BigDaddyWooWoo, who is active on another thread is right. I quote:

Quote
The bigger problem in all this is the "rollback", or the ability to do so.  Crypto has a real world trust issue and this makes it 100 times worse.  If I am a merchant there is no way in hell now that I would accept digital currency as now I have no idea if I get to keep my money. If the ledger can be rolled back on a whim then decentralized currencies are dead.

M/C and Visa have this issue to an extent but they cannot roll back an entire public ledger for as far back as they want to go.  Also, they are already entrenched where crypto is just getting a foothold.

Fungibility is extremely important.  Trust is extremely important.  Confidence is extremely important.  This is not a Vericoin problem.  This is a digital currency problem.  This affects the entire cryptosphere. This is now our problem.

I am converting all my holdings to BTC and hoping that it will weather the storm.  If it begins to take a hit back to fiat I go.  It sucks but the bed has been made now.  Not being chicken little here, just being objective and safe with my investments.

So far it is just a VRC problem. No other crypto has done this yet.

You are so active in this thread that I certainly got your point by now, but what are you try to achieve with your endless comments? Are you in a mission to save the world from the devil VeriCoin developers (2 PhD scientists + one MS developer so not exactly the archeo type of scammers but think whatever you want) or  are you just a troll with lots of free time to spend with meaningless conversations?
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July 14, 2014, 11:00:09 AM
 #8789

Like many others, I have a lot of Veri on Mint. The only reason its there, like everyone else, is to trade. No one uses Veri, so a rollback was feasible.

But it might have just fucked crypto in general.

What do you mean, you can rollback Bitcoin? That's what every government around the world will be told. That's what every bank is going to spell out as to why they won't allow crypto.

As soon as possible, I'm dumping my entire holding.

Stupid fucking decision.

Bye, where 1 crypto purist leaves, VeriCoin will take in many more mainstream people who wanted to be a part of the blockchain for years, but they could never get comfetorable with all the theft, not the whole centralized, decentralized BS that the purists think is nessisary for survival.

There is a reason bitcoin isn't growing as fast as it could. The purists hold it back trying to make it be something that it doesn't have to be to satisfy there agenda.

VeriCoin just created value for other people who once shied away from crypto due to people demanding that crypto are overcomplicated, and vulnerable.

VeriCoin proved there is a better way and the select few are mad? VeriCoin used the technology to avoid theft and secure its network, and this was bad?

Its irresposible to not use the resources at your disposal the technology allows, ONLY to cater to criminals, and purists. You see how they are close in the same? These people with computer skills want to keep it pure, so that they can control the power for the small %. As crypto grows more mainstream the computer geeks will lose more and more of the power they have. Scared much? VeriCoin proves that if your team is dilligent enough, and cares about its community that things can be done using the technology to strengthen a community and move forward a technology.

The federal reserve and businesses like paypal have those resources that their "technology" allows.

Go use their system right? lol....what's the difference?

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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July 14, 2014, 11:00:33 AM
 #8790

The thing is serious and I believe that BigDaddyWooWoo, who is active on another thread is right. I quote:

Quote
The bigger problem in all this is the "rollback", or the ability to do so.  Crypto has a real world trust issue and this makes it 100 times worse.  If I am a merchant there is no way in hell now that I would accept digital currency as now I have no idea if I get to keep my money. If the ledger can be rolled back on a whim then decentralized currencies are dead.

M/C and Visa have this issue to an extent but they cannot roll back an entire public ledger for as far back as they want to go.  Also, they are already entrenched where crypto is just getting a foothold.

Fungibility is extremely important.  Trust is extremely important.  Confidence is extremely important.  This is not a Vericoin problem.  This is a digital currency problem.  This affects the entire cryptosphere. This is now our problem.

I am converting all my holdings to BTC and hoping that it will weather the storm.  If it begins to take a hit back to fiat I go.  It sucks but the bed has been made now.  Not being chicken little here, just being objective and safe with my investments.

This sums it up pretty much perfectly, yet instead of addressing the issue people are just labeling anyone that might affect their short term investment as 'butthurt' or 'crying like a baby'.

We've all spent years telling everyone there are no charge backs in crypto.

That's true. We don't do charge backs on individual transactions, we do charge backs on the whole network.

The only safe havens now are Bitcoin, Litecoin, xmr and darkcoin.
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July 14, 2014, 11:01:58 AM
 #8791

The thing is serious and I believe that BigDaddyWooWoo, who is active on another thread is right. I quote:

Quote
The bigger problem in all this is the "rollback", or the ability to do so.  Crypto has a real world trust issue and this makes it 100 times worse.  If I am a merchant there is no way in hell now that I would accept digital currency as now I have no idea if I get to keep my money. If the ledger can be rolled back on a whim then decentralized currencies are dead.

M/C and Visa have this issue to an extent but they cannot roll back an entire public ledger for as far back as they want to go.  Also, they are already entrenched where crypto is just getting a foothold.

Fungibility is extremely important.  Trust is extremely important.  Confidence is extremely important.  This is not a Vericoin problem.  This is a digital currency problem.  This affects the entire cryptosphere. This is now our problem.

I am converting all my holdings to BTC and hoping that it will weather the storm.  If it begins to take a hit back to fiat I go.  It sucks but the bed has been made now.  Not being chicken little here, just being objective and safe with my investments.

This sums it up pretty much perfectly, yet instead of addressing the issue people are just labeling anyone that might affect their short term investment as 'butthurt' or 'crying like a baby'.

We've all spent years telling everyone there are no charge backs in crypto.

That's true. We don't do charge backs on individual transactions, we do charge backs on the whole network.

The only safe havens now are Bitcoin, Litecoin, xmr and darkcoin.

Dont forget cloakcoin!
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July 14, 2014, 11:02:14 AM
 #8792

As much as I dislike this decision it saves the big money - investors and exchange from huge losses. Who cares about integrity, cryptocurrency standards and whatnot...

The price will plummet but in time people will forget, pumpers gonna pump and traders gonna ride the waves...  Cheesy
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July 14, 2014, 11:02:55 AM
 #8793

The thing is serious and I believe that BigDaddyWooWoo, who is active on another thread is right. I quote:

Quote
The bigger problem in all this is the "rollback", or the ability to do so.  Crypto has a real world trust issue and this makes it 100 times worse.  If I am a merchant there is no way in hell now that I would accept digital currency as now I have no idea if I get to keep my money. If the ledger can be rolled back on a whim then decentralized currencies are dead.

M/C and Visa have this issue to an extent but they cannot roll back an entire public ledger for as far back as they want to go.  Also, they are already entrenched where crypto is just getting a foothold.

Fungibility is extremely important.  Trust is extremely important.  Confidence is extremely important.  This is not a Vericoin problem.  This is a digital currency problem.  This affects the entire cryptosphere. This is now our problem.

I am converting all my holdings to BTC and hoping that it will weather the storm.  If it begins to take a hit back to fiat I go.  It sucks but the bed has been made now.  Not being chicken little here, just being objective and safe with my investments.

This exactly. I have some VRC on MP but i'm against rollbacks and I would rather ask MP to compensate in BTC than creating this trust issue for all altcoins

I am sure that every guy defending the rollback, would oppose it, if he wasn't holding a large amount of VRC (maybe even on MP)

Still have a hard time getting head around that 30% of all VRC were on ONE exchange. So much for long time investors.

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July 14, 2014, 11:03:01 AM
 #8794

mintpal said hackers were able to "inject a withdrawal request directly into our database". I call bullshit. Only vrc were stolen.

Mintpal-hack is a lie. It didn't happen. It's just a story to invite regulation, steal your funds and get you used to the idea of rollbacks.


don't be naive!
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July 14, 2014, 11:04:17 AM
 #8795

Developmental issue vs. Business Security Failure.

Worlds apart. Apples and oranges. lol

The solution is still the same even if the event is different. Were Mintpal's breach to have occurred to Bitcoin when it was in its infancy you know damn well it would have been dealt with the same way and everybody would have been cheering the dev team for stopping the thieves in their tracks. Just because the cryptocurrency world is now awash with multiple currencies who all wish to be as successful as VRC has been so far, this thread becomes a target for screaming ignorance and sky-is-falling hysteria.



Nope. MTGOX got hacked in June 2011 (infancy).

BTC-e was hacked in 2012 (infancy).

Neither time did Bitcoin devs roll back anything for those hacks.

Let me name drop on you some huge bitcoin scams that were never rolled back on: MyBitcoin.com, Bitcoinica, PirateAt40's Bitcoin Savings and Trust, ...and those were all in mid 2012 or prior.

So don't play this supposition that I the devs WOULD do something similar if Bitcoin was in its infancy. I just proved your point wrong.



The reason they didn't rolled back BTC was that there were to many legit transactions in between. VRC has most of it's transactions coming from MP. All other exchanges are just hanging on the block. A roll back of this has much less impact then rolling back BTC from the Gox problem.

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July 14, 2014, 11:04:27 AM
 #8796

Like many others, I have a lot of Veri on Mint. The only reason its there, like everyone else, is to trade. No one uses Veri, so a rollback was feasible.

But it might have just fucked crypto in general.

What do you mean, you can rollback Bitcoin? That's what every government around the world will be told. That's what every bank is going to spell out as to why they won't allow crypto.

As soon as possible, I'm dumping my entire holding.

Stupid fucking decision.

Bye, where 1 crypto purist leaves, VeriCoin will take in many more mainstream people who wanted to be a part of the blockchain for years, but they could never get comfetorable with all the theft, not the whole centralized, decentralized BS that the purists think is nessisary for survival.

There is a reason bitcoin isn't growing as fast as it could. The purists hold it back trying to make it be something that it doesn't have to be to satisfy there agenda.

VeriCoin just created value for other people who once shied away from crypto due to people demanding that crypto are overcomplicated, and vulnerable.

VeriCoin proved there is a better way and the select few are mad? VeriCoin used the technology to avoid theft and secure its network, and this was bad?

Its irresposible to not use the resources at your disposal the technology allows, ONLY to cater to criminals, and purists. You see how they are close in the same? These people with computer skills want to keep it pure, so that they can control the power for the small %. As crypto grows more mainstream the computer geeks will lose more and more of the power they have. Scared much? VeriCoin proves that if your team is dilligent enough, and cares about its community that things can be done using the technology to strengthen a community and move forward a technology.
Anyone else notice the obscene irony in someone saying that he was dumping his Mint VRC holdings because the devs found the robber and handed back his coins that previously were in the hands of a thief who had robbed him?  So when you look at that lack of logic we can apply it to his other dumb ideas as well.
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July 14, 2014, 11:05:15 AM
 #8797

...
Perhaps we have just witnessed the death of proof of stake coins - a wallet in an exchange can hold and stake such a large percentage they can execute their own attack on the network. Or someone who can hack and take control of that wallet could kill the coin. Centralized much?

There are solution to that 30% attack possible:

Nova coin: Novacoin creators resolved this issue using balanced weighting scheme.
PPC: Centralized checkpoints.
BC : ( PPC + NOVA + own implementation of all in POS2.0 )
NXT: build up to resist 90%+ attacks...

VRC - had rollback to save stake holders asses who left 1/3 of coin in one place and do not let it dump on market that is all
don't join into that shit whole POS family

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July 14, 2014, 11:05:33 AM
 #8798

If I was the hacker this is what I would do:
(Hacker take note)
LoL rooting for the criminal.

Are you a wannabe criminal or an actual criminal?

Please actually read my post if you are going to quote parts of it.
Also, if you follow anything of what I have said today you will see that I am not rooting for the hacker.
Criminals are a cancer on society.

I do believe that we need a system that can't be hacked in this way though, otherwise it will keep happening.
By saving the exchange we allow its survival and the environment in which this happened.
It is good Mtgox is dead.
If you have cancer on your body, sometimes you need to cut your leg off.
If you just put a bandaid on it, the cancer grows.

..or sometimes the cancer is cured,how did you not know that..^^ Not all people like to loose their coins,some actually prefer to recover them and withdraw it from exchange..let them decide..when Mtgox died,lot of people lost money,so don't say that's a good thing..it's better to take preventive measures.so such a thing doesn't happen again..
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July 14, 2014, 11:05:59 AM
 #8799

Also: why is it that the hacker did nothing to profit from this event?

There are ways they/it/them/he/she could've turned this to advantage.
I don't think they are dumb. Doesn't add up.

It took me a while to realize that in the world of crypto I lose more by listening to Hypers than I do by listening to Fudders.
This fact I find so shameful that I had to create a new forum account.
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July 14, 2014, 11:06:37 AM
 #8800

Developmental issue vs. Business Security Failure.

Worlds apart. Apples and oranges. lol

The solution is still the same even if the event is different. Were Mintpal's breach to have occurred to Bitcoin when it was in its infancy you know damn well it would have been dealt with the same way and everybody would have been cheering the dev team for stopping the thieves in their tracks. Just because the cryptocurrency world is now awash with multiple currencies who all wish to be as successful as VRC has been so far, this thread becomes a target for screaming ignorance and sky-is-falling hysteria.



Nope. MTGOX got hacked in June 2011 (infancy).

BTC-e was hacked in 2012 (infancy).

Neither time did Bitcoin devs roll back anything for those hacks.

Let me name drop on you some huge bitcoin scams that were never rolled back on: MyBitcoin.com, Bitcoinica, PirateAt40's Bitcoin Savings and Trust, ...and those were all in mid 2012 or prior.

So don't play this supposition that I the devs WOULD do something similar if Bitcoin was in its infancy. I just proved your point wrong.



The reason they didn't rolled back BTC was that there were to many legit transactions in between. VRC has most of it's transactions coming from MP. All other exchanges are just hanging on the block. A roll back of this has much less impact then rolling back BTC from the Gox problem.

Who do you think you are to decide how much impact the rollback would have. I bet there are a few gambling sites that take vrc.. what about them, and the private deals ect. This is a joke, VRC is dying as of today and you are a chump.
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