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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1149889 times)
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EGStrategies
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January 21, 2015, 06:15:04 PM
 #2201

Clam price is extremely low right now if you value it based on the $bet volume in the first ~2 months of JD reopening, as well as future prospects for betting growth on the site given its peak popularity pre-shutdown and its relative newness as the re-opened clam dice. Leverage has upped the max a ton which should attract huge betting soon, and investors have almost all kept their clam invested despite the leverage option.


I'm not sure it's too undervalued though. I am holding, but there are a few major factors that I see as discounting the price

1. un-dug clams represent 98+% of the available clams to dig... less than 2% have been dug. Price action will motivate new digs causing sell offs in uptrends. The low dug amount currently provides a large staking interest rate to holders, but the stake stays fixed at 1 clam per minute regardless of dug clams.

2. Just-Dice could close again at some point




Ultimately JD is enough for me to be in for the long haul. It will be very interesting. Extremely low supply right now.
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January 23, 2015, 03:59:26 PM
 #2202

The physical clams might be in short supply, but JD is backed by paper CLAMs now, I don't know how much effect that has on the market, but I don't like it.
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January 23, 2015, 05:33:24 PM
 #2203

Hi everyone,

A couple of weeks ago I realised I had some of these initially distributed clams so I'm trying to stake with them. I used the bootstrap file to get up-to-date in a reasonable time and did manage to stake once, so that was a good start. I'm just running clamd, not qt. I was using some 1.4.4-beta that I compiled from source on linux.

Unfortunately, I realised today that my clamd has been stuck at block 300998 (from Jan 18). Plus getinfo said my balance was 0, but fortunately that part was just wrong. I found this thread and saw a recent post that suggested looking at the debug.log file, so I did. I found error messages like

ERROR: ProcessBlock() : duplicate proof-of-stake ...

just like shawn2025 above did. Following allejuppa's suggestion above, I just restarted everything restarting from the bootstrap again. To be specific, I moved my .clam to an old directory, downloaded the latest version of clam for linux(32), created a new .clam directory and copied over (only) my clam.conf and wallet.dat files. I then put the latest bootstrap.dat in the new .clam directory. I restarted and let it run for 6 hours or so.

I think I'm now caught up and things seem to be running OK. I just wanted to confirm this kind of thing is happening and there is a somewhat time consuming way around it.

Even with the problems, I'm enjoying learning about your coin.

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January 23, 2015, 06:52:50 PM
Last edit: January 23, 2015, 07:29:44 PM by dooglus
 #2204

The physical clams might be in short supply, but JD is backed by paper CLAMs now, I don't know how much effect that has on the market, but I don't like it.

"backed by paper CLAMs" is a funny way of putting it. Any CLAMs you win on Just-Dice are real CLAMs. There's no danger of winning "paper" CLAMs and not being able to withdraw them.

Interestingly, the recent change of allowing people to have only a fraction of their investment actually on deposit was the opposite of what I expected.

I thought it would allow the biggest investors to free up some of their CLAMs, possibly resulting in lots of CLAM being sold off, but what seems to be happening is that new even bigger investors are coming in now that they can have a significant stake in the site without having to convert more than a small percentage of their net worth into CLAM to do so.

Edit: oh, and the reason I came back to this thread right now was to mention that I've replaced the bootstrap.dat with a new up-to-date version. See the old post for details.

Edit2: it's been a while since I posted charts of the network difficulty over time:




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January 23, 2015, 09:33:53 PM
 #2205

Hi everyone,

A couple of weeks ago I realised I had some of these initially distributed clams so I'm trying to stake with them. I used the bootstrap file to get up-to-date in a reasonable time and did manage to stake once, so that was a good start. I'm just running clamd, not qt. I was using some 1.4.4-beta that I compiled from source on linux.

Unfortunately, I realised today that my clamd has been stuck at block 300998 (from Jan 18). Plus getinfo said my balance was 0, but fortunately that part was just wrong. I found this thread and saw a recent post that suggested looking at the debug.log file, so I did. I found error messages like

ERROR: ProcessBlock() : duplicate proof-of-stake ...

just like shawn2025 above did. Following allejuppa's suggestion above, I just restarted everything restarting from the bootstrap again. To be specific, I moved my .clam to an old directory, downloaded the latest version of clam for linux(32), created a new .clam directory and copied over (only) my clam.conf and wallet.dat files. I then put the latest bootstrap.dat in the new .clam directory. I restarted and let it run for 6 hours or so.

I think I'm now caught up and things seem to be running OK. I just wanted to confirm this kind of thing is happening and there is a somewhat time consuming way around it.

Even with the problems, I'm enjoying learning about your coin.

I did not use the bootstrap, but same here. Everything running smooth.  It's taking a day or so to stake, but I've generated a couple coins since then.  Good luck! 
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January 24, 2015, 06:21:05 AM
 #2206

One thing about using the client is that you can stake your blocks right after.  I think it should stake easily because its been a long time.  While I did use the client I made the mistake of sending straight to JD.  quite unfortunate. 
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January 24, 2015, 07:23:13 AM
 #2207

One thing about using the client is that you can stake your blocks right after.  I think it should stake easily because its been a long time.  While I did use the client I made the mistake of sending straight to JD.  quite unfortunate. 

I think you've got it backwards.

You seem to be saying that the coins you dig up will stake quickly because they're old, but age isn't a factor in staking, only size.

When you invest in JD you immediately start receiving a share of the staking rewards, whereas coins arriving in your own wallet won't start staking for 4 hours (if they were sent to you) or for 510 blocks (if they are immature after staking).

(The coins you send to JD also won't start staking for 4 hours, but that cost is shared between all the investors).

Just-Dice                 ██             
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January 24, 2015, 09:31:32 AM
 #2208

Few months ago I created a clams wallet based on a bitcoin old wallet of mine and I got some clams. I still have the old bitcoin wallet file, but I don't have the clams wallet. I tried the same import procedure, but I got no clams this time. The clams I got the first time were not spent. Is it possible to reclaim those?

Edit: Never mind, it seems to work with file->import wallet.

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January 24, 2015, 10:04:53 AM
 #2209

Yeah I am using the lingo of commodities!  Everyone hates paper gold and silver keeping the prices down!
It is an interesting idea with Cryto though, and I guess on a dice betting site there won't be a short call as the profits and losses will be gradual.

The physical clams might be in short supply, but JD is backed by paper CLAMs now, I don't know how much effect that has on the market, but I don't like it.

"backed by paper CLAMs" is a funny way of putting it. Any CLAMs you win on Just-Dice are real CLAMs. There's no danger of winning "paper" CLAMs and not being able to withdraw them.

Interestingly, the recent change of allowing people to have only a fraction of their investment actually on deposit was the opposite of what I expected.

I thought it would allow the biggest investors to free up some of their CLAMs, possibly resulting in lots of CLAM being sold off, but what seems to be happening is that new even bigger investors are coming in now that they can have a significant stake in the site without having to convert more than a small percentage of their net worth into CLAM to do so.

Edit: oh, and the reason I came back to this thread right now was to mention that I've replaced the bootstrap.dat with a new up-to-date version. See the old post for details.

Edit2: it's been a while since I posted charts of the network difficulty over time:




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January 24, 2015, 10:09:26 AM
 #2210

after reading this thread i checked my old wallet and found some clams there

why clam wallet show virus when scanned with virustotal

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January 24, 2015, 10:12:37 AM
 #2211

why clam wallet show virus when scanned with virustotal

Clams is pretty addictive, smart scanner
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January 24, 2015, 10:12:43 AM
 #2212

I have my old doge wallet backup but there's no doge left in them. Do I still get clams?

You don't sorry bro.
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January 24, 2015, 12:48:20 PM
 #2213

I have my old doge wallet backup but there's no doge left in them. Do I still get clams?

You don't sorry bro.

There is not enough information to support this conclusion. It depends on whether the old doge wallet had doge last May.

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January 24, 2015, 01:55:16 PM
 #2214

Clams is a great coin and has seen good value. BTW Would you like us to start Chinese translation of website any time soon? Also blog post coming tomorrow..  Smiley


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January 24, 2015, 04:17:11 PM
 #2215

Clams is a great coin and has seen good value. BTW Would you like us to start Chinese translation of website any time soon? Also blog post coming tomorrow..  Smiley
Once we have the new website up then you can still have the job. I'll PM you when it's 100% ready for translation. Designing the new site is a much bigger job than the old one, so it will likely be springtime before it's ready. We won't forget your offer Smiley

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January 24, 2015, 04:52:46 PM
 #2216

Clams is a great coin and has seen good value. BTW Would you like us to start Chinese translation of website any time soon? Also blog post coming tomorrow..  Smiley
Once we have the new website up then you can still have the job. I'll PM you when it's 100% ready for translation. Designing the new site is a much bigger job than the old one, so it will likely be springtime before it's ready. We won't forget your offer Smiley

Awesome you rick my Bro.. I love CLAMS..  Cheesy


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January 25, 2015, 12:20:17 AM
 #2217

One thing about using the client is that you can stake your blocks right after.  I think it should stake easily because its been a long time.  While I did use the client I made the mistake of sending straight to JD.  quite unfortunate. 

I think you've got it backwards.

You seem to be saying that the coins you dig up will stake quickly because they're old, but age isn't a factor in staking, only size.

When you invest in JD you immediately start receiving a share of the staking rewards, whereas coins arriving in your own wallet won't start staking for 4 hours (if they were sent to you) or for 510 blocks (if they are immature after staking).

(The coins you send to JD also won't start staking for 4 hours, but that cost is shared between all the investors).

okay I'm skimming through the forum right now.  But i thought how fast you stake was based off of age and size.  Or maybe that's been changed now.  I know its still a flat 1 clam reward but I thought the only incentive was that that by continuously staking you get more compound interest.

And yes I agree moving to JD is a good thing.  As a smaller holder I get less variance and more compounding and also the dice site.  Also a bit more mobility.  I just thought that it was easy to get the first stake but I seems like there was a change.  I'll keep catching up on this thread!
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January 25, 2015, 12:35:09 AM
 #2218

okay I'm skimming through the forum right now.  But i thought how fast you stake was based off of age and size.  Or maybe that's been changed now.

It has changed a few times. For a while old outputs staked easier than new ones, but not any more.

I know its still a flat 1 clam reward but I thought the only incentive was that that by continuously staking you get more compound interest.

Each CLAM has a certain chance of staking each 16 seconds. If you only try to stake half the time, you will stake about half as often. In that sense it's like proof-of-work. If age mattered then you could shut down your wallet most of the time, let the age build up, then once a week run it and let all your outputs stake, collecting the potential built up during the downtime. That's no longer how it works.

And yes I agree moving to JD is a good thing.  As a smaller holder I get less variance and more compounding and also the dice site.  Also a bit more mobility.  I just thought that it was easy to get the first stake but I seems like there was a change.  I'll keep catching up on this thread!

Smiley

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January 25, 2015, 08:20:31 AM
 #2219

I'm concerned that clam is in danger of a blockchain fork. I'm hesitant to bring it up, but if I'm right, then something can and should be done to prevent it.

I mentioned above that I got "stuck" on a block from Jan 18 and fixed it by basically starting over. I was using clam-1.4.4 on Ubuntu. Still using 1.4.4 yesterday I got stuck again, this time at block 309743. From debug.log :

ERROR: ProcessBlock() : duplicate proof-of-stake (COutPoint(d8b3271d13, 1), 1422097824) for block 9aa9cd7b8405220459c0f59fb49c8e0c6f70a4ad13269f8186d544e5931d38cd

This time I downgraded to clam-1.4.3.1 from Dec 2014 and this got me unstuck.

I'm concerned that there's some bug in 1.4.4 that makes it incompatible with the previous versions. That could appear at the moment as "getting stuck", when in reality all the 1.4.4 could be "stuck" while trying to stake the next block.

If the vast majority of stakeholders are not running 1.4.4, then it's possible they simply do not yet have the staking power to cause a fork. As stakeholders start to upgrade, a fork would happen.

I'm not a dev or an expert, and if I'm wrong someone will clear this up. I don't mean to FUD things up.

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January 25, 2015, 08:58:14 AM
 #2220

One thing about using the client is that you can stake your blocks right after.  I think it should stake easily because its been a long time.  While I did use the client I made the mistake of sending straight to JD.  quite unfortunate. 

I think you've got it backwards.

You seem to be saying that the coins you dig up will stake quickly because they're old, but age isn't a factor in staking, only size.

When you invest in JD you immediately start receiving a share of the staking rewards, whereas coins arriving in your own wallet won't start staking for 4 hours (if they were sent to you) or for 510 blocks (if they are immature after staking).

(The coins you send to JD also won't start staking for 4 hours, but that cost is shared between all the investors).

I like just-dice and the way it is but the system you are talking about is a (small) loss for people invested who don't withdraw their CLAM.
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