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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1117391 times)
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Nthused
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February 19, 2015, 11:01:37 AM
 #2501

I'm still waiting on a stake with my 9.24101359 CLAM

It fluctuates between 26 & 35 days for stake and has a constant weight of 9 that never changes, my wallet has been open since receiving them initially, does all this sound correct ?

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February 19, 2015, 01:21:56 PM
 #2502

I'm still waiting on a stake with my 9.24101359 CLAM

It fluctuates between 26 & 35 days for stake and has a constant weight of 9 that never changes, my wallet has been open since receiving them initially, does all this sound correct ?

Yes this is correct, also worth making sure you are getting enough connections to the wallet. If you are firewalled then port forward 31174.
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February 19, 2015, 03:17:14 PM
 #2503

Huh everytime update new wallet  Undecided

everything is oke
but tell me why this happen

http://m.UploadEdit.com/ba3a/142424984926.jpg

I think it means that you're trying to spend more than you have available when you add in the network fees.

Try spending 0.0001 less. And if that fails, 0.0001 less, etc.

I'll have that message be more specific about how much you're short in a future release.

After looking at the code, it appears that if that was the reason, it would have told you.

I've added debugging to the code so future releases will put the reason for the failure in the log at least.

One of the reasons for the message you're seeing is that transactions can't be bigger than 100kB in size. It seems unlikely that that is the problem unless you have hundreds of tiny outputs in your wallet from farming a faucet or something.

If you're willing to help me figure out what's going on, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

You're right this all come from seedtrue faucet and have many hundred transaction
I was try to send just 2 clam and that message still appear

i don't know what to do

max balance 1.7 clam was succeed sending

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February 19, 2015, 04:44:44 PM
 #2504

I'm still waiting on a stake with my 9.24101359 CLAM

It fluctuates between 26 & 35 days for stake and has a constant weight of 9 that never changes, my wallet has been open since receiving them initially, does all this sound correct ?

It could take a month, two or even three before you stake one clam. Nothing to worry about.


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dooglus
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February 19, 2015, 07:59:02 PM
 #2505

One of the reasons for the message you're seeing is that transactions can't be bigger than 100kB in size. It seems unlikely that that is the problem unless you have hundreds of tiny outputs in your wallet from farming a faucet or something.

You're right this all come from seedtrue faucet and have many hundred transaction
I was try to send just 2 clam and that message still appear

i don't know what to do

max balance 1.7 clam was succeed sending

Well, each input to a transaction adds roughly 150 bytes to the transaction size, and transactions can be no bigger than 100k bytes.

100k / 150 = 666, so you're limited to about 666 inputs per transaction.

The biggest transactions to recently appear on the blockchain:

http://khashier.com/tx/610f97832734b598e59d94124e995f845fe6e1678cdf8435c65c5196eb097666
  654 inputs, 2 outputs, 96585 bytes

http://khashier.com/tx/16ac565c4c0e6840427dc6bc4b591152200216b1d1e0c623a599d3798435b2e6
  659 inputs, 2 outputs, 97324 bytes

http://khashier.com/tx/3f3dcdcbc958b46d2157b5d42c1596ead49fa1642fdb67f93943580e587d8901
  608 inputs, 1 output, 89765 bytes

I guess those were yours, and as you can see each is close to the 100kB limit. So that's why it was failing when you tried to send all your outputs in a single transaction.

Just-Dice                 ██             
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February 19, 2015, 10:13:03 PM
 #2506

Nice dooglus that you put it in terms of betting luck.
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February 20, 2015, 12:38:20 AM
 #2507

Nice dooglus that you put it in terms of betting luck.

Staking is pretty much like betting, except you get your stake back whether you win or lose... it's a free lottery that you get to enter every 16 seconds.

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February 20, 2015, 03:00:33 AM
 #2508

So since just-dice stakes the majority of clams daily,  what happens if that staking stops?

How does it affect the network?  


2nd question is:

Sometimes my staking icon turns red,  like it stops staking..  I have mature coins though,  why is it doing this?
Note, i'm on v1.4.7  and sometimes I do get stakes.



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February 20, 2015, 06:57:30 AM
 #2509

So since just-dice stakes the majority of clams daily,  what happens if that staking stops?

How does it affect the network?  

The difficulty adjusts downwards so the remaining staking nodes stake 1 block per minute between them.

A few months back (when the 'lottery' block reward was stopped) an error was made when the CLAM client was changed which resulted in it being about a million times easier to stake blocks than before. It took a few hours for the difficulty to adjust fully but it did so without human intervention.

2nd question is:

Sometimes my staking icon turns red,  like it stops staking..  I have mature coins though,  why is it doing this?
Note, i'm on v1.4.7  and sometimes I do get stakes.

I've no idea, sorry. What does the red icon's tooltip say if you hover the mouse over it?

Just-Dice                 ██             
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February 20, 2015, 07:04:21 AM
 #2510

A few months back (when the 'lottery' block reward was stopped) an error was made when the CLAM client was changed which resulted in it being about a million times easier to stake blocks than before. It took a few hours for the difficulty to adjust fully but it did so without human intervention.
Are you telling me... if I had been there... then... I co-could have gotten...

 Undecided

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February 20, 2015, 07:06:59 AM
 #2511

A few months back (when the 'lottery' block reward was stopped) an error was made when the CLAM client was changed which resulted in it being about a million times easier to stake blocks than before. It took a few hours for the difficulty to adjust fully but it did so without human intervention.
Are you telling me... if I had been there... then... I co-could have gotten...

 Undecided

Every 16 seconds lots of peers staked blocks. All but one were orphaned. This kept up for a while as difficulty adjusted. Massive amounts of forking/orphaning, but it all worked itself out just fine.

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February 20, 2015, 07:36:04 AM
 #2512

A few months back (when the 'lottery' block reward was stopped) an error was made when the CLAM client was changed which resulted in it being about a million times easier to stake blocks than before. It took a few hours for the difficulty to adjust fully but it did so without human intervention.
Are you telling me... if I had been there... then... I co-could have gotten...

 Undecided

Every 16 seconds lots of peers staked blocks. All but one were orphaned. This kept up for a while as difficulty adjusted. Massive amounts of forking/orphaning, but it all worked itself out just fine.
Oh, I see.

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February 20, 2015, 08:10:42 AM
Last edit: February 20, 2015, 09:19:00 AM by dooglus
 #2513

Oh, I see.

Here's a post I made about it at the time, with a chart:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147.msg9512382#msg9512382

Edit: here it is with time on the x-axis:



So it took about 3 hours for the difficulty to make that huge adjustment. Losing JD's 70% stake would take much less time to adjust for.

Here's the network difficulty since that fork:


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February 20, 2015, 09:28:21 AM
 #2514

So since just-dice stakes the majority of clams daily,  what happens if that staking stops?

How does it affect the network?  

The difficulty adjusts downwards so the remaining staking nodes stake 1 block per minute between them.

A few months back (when the 'lottery' block reward was stopped) an error was made when the CLAM client was changed which resulted in it being about a million times easier to stake blocks than before. It took a few hours for the difficulty to adjust fully but it did so without human intervention.

2nd question is:

Sometimes my staking icon turns red,  like it stops staking..  I have mature coins though,  why is it doing this?
Note, i'm on v1.4.7  and sometimes I do get stakes.

I've no idea, sorry. What does the red icon's tooltip say if you hover the mouse over it?

So many blocks were created for a few hours??


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almightyruler
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February 20, 2015, 03:11:42 PM
 #2515

Also, I notice that your 98 CLAM output was created on 7th February - just 11 days ago. Maybe you had a similar amount before and were just moving things around, but note that each time you move an output it stops trying to stake for 4 hours.

Brain failure yet again; I have to stop replying to threads at the far end of my awake time. Yes, at that time I believe I gathered various inputs into one, which of course would have reset its weight. My run of luck was bad, but not super bad.

Good news is that I staked about 7 hours ago. Smiley

---

I still don't get clamspeech.

"Each time a CLAM is minted or moves on the blockchain, the transaction record is now accompanied by text of your choosing. The CLAMspeech feature allows you to pick from a list of religious and political statements, or to enter a custom expression."

        "tx-comment" : "Expression of Religious Freedom: Canaanite Mythology"

I take it my client grabbed this line randomly from clamspeech.txt. Fine if you want to participate, and set your own unique statements, but I don't understand why the client will (by default) bloat the blockchain with the same set of text lines that everyone else has?

If I understand correctly, around 20% of this transaction is taken up by the clamspeech comment: http://khashier.com/tx/4683254175f04dd5a10de1c1a11f1c24c7827d279b3380b51c94cd0319cac406

(Warning: this reply is also being written at the far end of my awake time, so may contain content that defies common sense and/or makes me seem like a babbling idiot. If so, please feel free to knock some sense into me.)
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February 20, 2015, 04:58:50 PM
 #2516

Also, I notice that your 98 CLAM output was created on 7th February - just 11 days ago. Maybe you had a similar amount before and were just moving things around, but note that each time you move an output it stops trying to stake for 4 hours.
Brain failure yet again; I have to stop replying to threads at the far end of my awake time. Yes, at that time I believe I gathered various inputs into one, which of course would have reset its weight. My run of luck was bad, but not super bad.
Good news is that I staked about 7 hours ago. Smiley
---
I still don't get clamspeech.
"Each time a CLAM is minted or moves on the blockchain, the transaction record is now accompanied by text of your choosing. The CLAMspeech feature allows you to pick from a list of religious and political statements, or to enter a custom expression."
        "tx-comment" : "Expression of Religious Freedom: Canaanite Mythology"
I take it my client grabbed this line randomly from clamspeech.txt. Fine if you want to participate, and set your own unique statements, but I don't understand why the client will (by default) bloat the blockchain with the same set of text lines that everyone else has?
If I understand correctly, around 20% of this transaction is taken up by the clamspeech comment: http://khashier.com/tx/4683254175f04dd5a10de1c1a11f1c24c7827d279b3380b51c94cd0319cac406
(Warning: this reply is also being written at the far end of my awake time, so may contain content that defies common sense and/or makes me seem like a babbling idiot. If so, please feel free to knock some sense into me.)

Not a bad question at all Smiley

You are correct that CLAMspeech places additional weight on the chain. 

The concept is deceptively simple: political and religious expression/speech is legally protected in many jurisdictions around the world.

There are two facets of the feature that mutually protect each other:
1.  The ability to guarantee freedom of speech by hosting it on the block chain;
2.  Possibly more importantly, protection of the block chain by having expressions of protected speech embedded in it.

We think that as some of the various proposals for regulating crypto-currency are challenged in court; this issue will become much more important in the community and public at large.

In reference to the "Bit License", you can read more about the legal arguments behind such a feature in the public comment submitted by the legal representation of Reddit/EFF.

Of most interest is the section starting at page 11, specifically the sub-section at page 14 and beyond.



As an aside, CLAMspeech also provides an interesting opportunity for additional functionality on top of the protocol.
Services such as Counterparty become much simpler to implement with a ready-made field in which could be placed data to be parsed and consensus approved.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
dooglus
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February 20, 2015, 07:37:08 PM
 #2517

So many blocks were created for a few hours??

Lots of blocks were created, but lots of them were at the same "height" as each other. Only one block survived in the main chain at each height. The vast majority of the blocks that were created ended up as orphans, and so earned no staking reward.

It was quite an impressive demonstration on the network's ability to find consensus even with such chaos going on.

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February 20, 2015, 07:41:37 PM
 #2518

The concept is deceptively simple: political and religious expression/speech is legally protected in many jurisdictions around the world.

There are two facets of the feature that mutually protect each other:
1.  The ability to guarantee freedom of speech by hosting it on the block chain;
2.  Possibly more importantly, protection of the block chain by having expressions of protected speech embedded in it.

What do you think of the idea of having JD take random lines from its on-site chat as its "CLAMspeech" for the blocks it stakes?

That way you get a much wider range of "expression" in the blockchain - though some of it may not be the kind of stuff you want preserved forever.

I've asked before and don't think I've seen an answer: are the "expression of * freedom: *" lines a work in progress? Are they templates to be filled in with real statements about each religion/whatever? Because it seems to me that currently the "expressions" aren't actually expressing anything - they're just a list of religions and suchlike.

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dooglus
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February 20, 2015, 08:02:11 PM
 #2519

Good news is that I staked about 7 hours ago. Smiley

I'm glad to hear it.

I put 100 CLAMs into my local wallet a couple of days ago, just to see how long they would take to stake.

They took almost exactly 2 days:

    http://khashier.com/address/xQ1F485bxrsPudaWLUNmrTtpJ3UrXLhuzJ

So I was lucky. I'll leave them staking and see how long it takes for the next stake.

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February 21, 2015, 12:25:14 AM
 #2520

Good news is that I staked about 7 hours ago. Smiley

I'm glad to hear it.

I put 100 CLAMs into my local wallet a couple of days ago, just to see how long they would take to stake.

They took almost exactly 2 days:

    http://khashier.com/address/xQ1F485bxrsPudaWLUNmrTtpJ3UrXLhuzJ

So I was lucky. I'll leave them staking and see how long it takes for the next stake.
Took me several weeks to stake, but that's because my wallet was only online ~12 hours a day and I only had 17 CLAM Wink

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