[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[crush]

So.. erm.. is the free distribution still going?

Finally synched the wallet today, imported my old (now empty) Bitcoin wallet from before I switched to MultiBit, CLAM wallet stopped working for a while and when it came back nothing happened..

[dooglus]

So.. erm.. is the free distribution still going?

Finally synched the wallet today, imported my old (now empty) Bitcoin wallet from before I switched to MultiBit, CLAM wallet stopped working for a while and when it came back nothing happened..

The free distribution happened back in June or something. It's still available for claiming, and always will be.

You won't see all your free CLAM until you have synced the first 10k blocks.

[crush]

So.. erm.. is the free distribution still going?

Finally synched the wallet today, imported my old (now empty) Bitcoin wallet from before I switched to MultiBit, CLAM wallet stopped working for a while and when it came back nothing happened..

The free distribution happened back in June or something. It's still available for claiming, and always will be.

You won't see all your free CLAM until you have synced the first 10k blocks.

DOOGLUS! Nice to see you here

What you mean the first 10k blocks? The CLAM wallet is fully synched.. After that I imported my old Bitcoin wallet.dat and nothing happened? Do I need to wait some time?

Thanks for your time!

[picolo]

So.. erm.. is the free distribution still going?

Finally synched the wallet today, imported my old (now empty) Bitcoin wallet from before I switched to MultiBit, CLAM wallet stopped working for a while and when it came back nothing happened..

The free distribution happened back in June or something. It's still available for claiming, and always will be.

You won't see all your free CLAM until you have synced the first 10k blocks.

The free distribution happened May 12th.

[MikkisJ]

I don't have skills to check the source myself. Since there is a risk BTC from the wallet I'm still using could be stolen, it's not worth the risk for me.

[JWU42]

I am running HEAD from Git and can't seem to get things "right".

1.  Encrypted the wallet
2. Ran

Code:

clamd walletpassphrase passwordhere 999999 true

to allow stakingonly

3.  I get the following result -- see below (i.e., Weight seems wrong)

4.  balance is > 150 clams

Code:

user@HOST:~$ clamd getstakinginfo
{
    "enabled" : true,
    "staking" : false,
    "errors" : "",
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "pooledtx" : 0,
    "difficulty" : 28234.19972784,
    "search-interval" : 16,
    "weight" : 0.00000000,
    "netstakeweight" : 305129.11962176,
    "expectedtime" : -1
}

[dooglus]

What you mean the first 10k blocks?

I mean the initial distribution was finished by block 10,000. If you have more than 10,000 blocks synced, then you have enough to see your coins.

The CLAM wallet is fully synched.. After that I imported my old Bitcoin wallet.dat and nothing happened? Do I need to wait some time?

No, you don't need to wait. I expect the wallet you imported doesn't contain any addresses that were funded on the date in May 2014 that the snapshot was taken.

3.  I get the following result -- see below (i.e., Weight seems wrong)

    "weight" : 0.00000000,

"weight" is a measure of how many CLAMs are currently trying to stake. Outputs don't try to stake if they have staked in the last 510 blocks, or if they have been involved in a transaction in the last 4 hours. I expect one of those two is the case for your coins.

Run "listunspent" to see how many confirmations each output has. Probably by now the problem has resolved itself, since more than 510 blocks have been staked since you posted...

Finally, we saw a LOT of CLAMs dug up today - mostly from what appears to be some kind of Litecoin service. Here's a chart showing the total amount dug up over time. Note the big jump when JD launched around 8th December, and the almost-as-big jump today:

[grunt]

Signing messages is a possibility but the ambiguity of which addresses your coins are stored makes me and the rest of the dev team hesitate to do so.  

I think it's too late for that now, anyway. The way things are set up, distribution CLAM coins are at addresses which have *the same* private key as the corresponding BTC/LTC/DOGE addresses.

I guess a change to the protocol could theoretically allow it, and I don't think the ambiguity you mentioned is important - if I can sign a message with the BTC form of a private key, I can trivially convert the private key to DOGE, LTC, or CLAM and sign a message with that form instead. So the protocol would need to modify the meaning of "OP_CHECKSIG" to be "the provided signature is valid for the provided pubkey (as before) OR (the input being spent was created before block 10k AND the provided signature is a valid message signature of "CLAMDIG" as signed by the BTC, LTC, or DOGE address corresponding to the provided pubkey)".

Then people could dig up their outputs without needing to provide anything more than a useless message signature.

There's a risk that people could be tricked into providing a scammer with a message signature that the scammer can then use to dig up the victim's CLAMs.

Oh, but there's a bigger risk that the scammer just scans the network for people digging up their CLAMs using message signatures, and modifies the outputs of those transactions to send the dug CLAMs to their own address... to prevent this, the message to be signed would need to include the destination address rather than being a constant (like "CLAMDIG" above). Then what if there are multiple destination addresses. We can limit this kind of transaction to only work with a single destination address (then the scammer sends 0.001 to the destination address and gives the rest to the miners, so we have to fix the amount too, to be 4.60xxx minus the 0.0001 fee - etc.)

I think in theory it's possible to find a workable solution that would allow people to safely dig up their distribution CLAM using just a signed message, but it would need careful consideration.

This is absolutely on point, and articulate as always. I hadn't considered a few of your points, especially a scammer tricking someone into sending then a message signature they could use to redeem the clams.

How you suggest doing it was exactly what I had in mind, and your right, it would need careful consideration.

I am a big supporter of the bitaddress style page that could allow everything to happen safely offline, its a great idea imo. As for moving the information, a usb key, while it does have some associated risk is a reasonable option.  there are also QR codes which would be easier if you were using a mobile device with a camera.

Offline signing seems like it should be looked at first. It provides a level of security that you can be sure your private keys are not going anywhere and requires no modification to the protocol.

 

That is a really interesting possibility. I just discovered that you can sign messages from within the Coinbase wallet. Being able to retrieve Clams at an address using a signed message could further democratize the distribution.

[grunt]

I don't have skills to check the source myself. Since there is a risk BTC from the wallet I'm still using could be stolen, it's not worth the risk for me.

It's good to be skeptical. If you find the specific private keys which have Clams to be dug you can export those and delete them from your BTC wallet. You can claim the clams at just-dice or by importing the keys into a clam client running on your computer. So there are ways to insulate yourself and your btc.

[JWU42]

I am running HEAD from Git and can't seem to get things "right".

1.  Encrypted the wallet
2. Ran

Code:

clamd walletpassphrase passwordhere 999999 true

to allow stakingonly

3.  I get the following result -- see below (i.e., Weight seems wrong)

4.  balance is > 150 clams

Code:

user@HOST:~$ clamd getstakinginfo
{
    "enabled" : true,
    "staking" : false,
    "errors" : "",
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "pooledtx" : 0,
    "difficulty" : 28234.19972784,
    "search-interval" : 16,
    "weight" : 0.00000000,
    "netstakeweight" : 305129.11962176,
    "expectedtime" : -1
}

As Dooglus mentioned above, just needed more time for the staking to kick in.  All appears normal now.

[MikkisJ]

I don't have skills to check the source myself. Since there is a risk BTC from the wallet I'm still using could be stolen, it's not worth the risk for me.

It's good to be skeptical. If you find the specific private keys which have Clams to be dug you can export those and delete them from your BTC wallet. You can claim the clams at just-dice or by importing the keys into a clam client running on your computer. So there are ways to insulate yourself and your btc.

I still use the same addresses and private keys that have CLAMS distributed to. Using a different address for each transaction is very troublesome and annoying, because you need to back-up every single one of them.

I use only a couple of addresses, they are all back-uped and I don't have to buck-up the wallet or private keys every time I receive coins.

You can tell that CLAM creators don't care about this or created the system to steal coins, because it's easy to verify owning the address with a signed message without requiring the private keys. But they want your private keys.

[garthkiser]

I still use the same addresses and private keys that have CLAMS distributed to. Using a different address for each transaction is very troublesome and annoying, because you need to back-up every single one of them.

I use only a couple of addresses, they are all back-uped and I don't have to buck-up the wallet or private keys every time I receive coins.

You can tell that CLAM creators don't care about this or created the system to steal coins, because it's easy to verify owning the address with a signed message without requiring the private keys. But they want your private keys.

The CLAMclient is open source software. Every single line of code is a matter of public record at: https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams

While you nor I can fully examine the code ourselves, plenty of other people can and have. As to your statement that signing a message to verify ownership is "easy"; it also poses a security concern: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147.msg10044191#msg10044191

If you want to dig up CLAMs but have a problem using your keys, then empty the BTC, LTC or DOGE address of coins before claiming CLAMs.

[SuperClam]

I don't have skills to check the source myself. Since there is a risk BTC from the wallet I'm still using could be stolen, it's not worth the risk for me.

It's good to be skeptical. If you find the specific private keys which have Clams to be dug you can export those and delete them from your BTC wallet. You can claim the clams at just-dice or by importing the keys into a clam client running on your computer. So there are ways to insulate yourself and your btc.

I still use the same addresses and private keys that have CLAMS distributed to. Using a different address for each transaction is very troublesome and annoying, because you need to back-up every single one of them.
I use only a couple of addresses, they are all back-uped and I don't have to buck-up the wallet or private keys every time I receive coins.
You can tell that CLAM creators don't care about this or created the system to steal coins, because it's easy to verify owning the address with a signed message without requiring the private keys. But they want your private keys.

We are not a brand new project.

We have been doing this for over 6 months: not a single loss of coins.

Our offer to delete the entire project if someone could show us a single line of malicious code still stands.

Best practices with Bitcoin, or any derivative crypto, requires that you use a new address for each receive.

Empty the wallet into a new wallet/address.
At that point, your previous address(es) are nothing more than random strings of letters and numbers.

Every single funded address is currently worth something like $4 USD at exchange.
I would trade a random string of worthless letters and numbers for that reward -> any day of the week.

[unamis76]

CLAM surprising again, price-wise... Good to see this coin alive

[dooglus]

You can tell that CLAM creators don't care about this or created the system to steal coins, because it's easy to verify owning the address with a signed message without requiring the private keys. But they want your private keys.

You've already told us you don't have the skills required to understand how this stuff works, so what makes you think you're in any way qualified to make such silly statements?

You should pay somebody smarter than you to examine the client code for you, and then you should apologise to the CLAM developers for your rude words.

[crush]

Okidoki,

managed to import my LTC wallet.dat and got my first CLAMS.

Now I can't get my multibit.key file to work.. I go to the console, type "importwalletdump multibit.key" and get a big fat red "-".. The *.key file is in the same directory as the clam-qt.exe.. What could I be doing wrong?

[SuperClam]

Okidoki,
managed to import my LTC wallet.dat and got my first CLAMS.
Now I can't get my multibit.key file to work.. I go to the console, type "importwalletdump multibit.key" and get a big fat red "-".. The *.key file is in the same directory as the clam-qt.exe.. What could I be doing wrong?

Please feel free to stop in to #clams on freenode IRC for additional assistance.

Please ensure that the multibit wallet has been exported with the "encrypted" setting set to false.
The export must not be encrypted in the case of multibit to work.

[crush]

Okidoki,
managed to import my LTC wallet.dat and got my first CLAMS.
Now I can't get my multibit.key file to work.. I go to the console, type "importwalletdump multibit.key" and get a big fat red "-".. The *.key file is in the same directory as the clam-qt.exe.. What could I be doing wrong?

Please feel free to stop in to #clams on freenode IRC for additional assistance.

Please ensure that the multibit wallet has been exported with the "encrypted" setting set to false.
The export must not be encrypted in the case of multibit to work.

Will do cause I can't seem to import my DOGE wallet either :/

[sgk]

Okidoki,

managed to import my LTC wallet.dat and got my first CLAMS.

Now I can't get my multibit.key file to work.. I go to the console, type "importwalletdump multibit.key" and get a big fat red "-".. The *.key file is in the same directory as the clam-qt.exe.. What could I be doing wrong?

I have ran into similar problem in past.

Then what I did was, I imported all private keys into BitcoinQT Core wallet and then imported the wallet.dat file into CLAM wallet. Worked fine.

[picolo]

CLAM surprising again, price-wise... Good to see this coin alive

The price is relatively high at 0.0056 when it has been trading at 0.003 just 4 days ago. It seems like a good time to sell to buy again at 0.003 in 4 days