sgravina
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August 26, 2015, 01:10:49 PM |
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100% thanks - got it )
The only dumb question, is the question not asked. Most of what we think is dumb questions.
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Swordsoffreedom
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August 26, 2015, 01:11:09 PM |
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CLAMS dropped by a lot today. It even dropped lower than 0.004 when it was more than 0.01 a week ago. Someone dug up lots of CLAM to dump today.
The wall was just tested again on polo it held up but it pushed down to 0.0041 for a bit Looks like the dump is still ongoing. That said well at least Bitcoins not broken just a digging machine cough I wonder if at this point I should just call them a prospector or a miner digging up all those blocks.
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..Stake.com.. | | | ▄████████████████████████████████████▄ ██ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██ ▄████▄ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██████████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ██████ ██ ██████████ ██ ██ ██████████ ██ ▀██▀ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██ ██████ ██ █████ ███ ██████ ██ ████▄ ██ ██ █████ ███ ████ ████ █████ ███ ████████ ██ ████ ████ ██████████ ████ ████ ████▀ ██ ██████████ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████ ██ ██ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ██ ▀█████████▀ ▄████████████▄ ▀█████████▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███ ██ ██ ███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ██████████████████████████████████████████ | | | | | | ▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▄ █ ▄▀▄ █▀▀█▀▄▄ █ █▀█ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▄██▄ █ ▌ █ █ ▄██████▄ █ ▌ ▐▌ █ ██████████ █ ▐ █ █ ▐██████████▌ █ ▐ ▐▌ █ ▀▀██████▀▀ █ ▌ █ █ ▄▄▄██▄▄▄ █ ▌▐▌ █ █▐ █ █ █▐▐▌ █ █▐█ ▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀█ | | | | | | ▄▄█████████▄▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄█▀ ▐█▌ ▀█▄ ██ ▐█▌ ██ ████▄ ▄█████▄ ▄████ ████████▄███████████▄████████ ███▀ █████████████ ▀███ ██ ███████████ ██ ▀█▄ █████████ ▄█▀ ▀█▄ ▄██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄▄▄█▀ ▀███████ ███████▀ ▀█████▄ ▄█████▀ ▀▀▀███▄▄▄███▀▀▀ | | | ..PLAY NOW.. |
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erre
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August 26, 2015, 02:42:45 PM |
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I sold everything, seems that's the only thing to do like now. Will buy back when this crazyness will stop.
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MidwestMiner
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August 26, 2015, 03:06:05 PM |
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Good to know, in my opinion the digging of clam is to allow many people to benefit, not just 1 person or entity.
I understand your concern.
In a case like this you have to assume either the following; - Person/entity found a bug and exploiting - Actually have all those valid addresses, which i find still unlikely - Malicious, they stole those addresses
Although it is common practice to call claiming CLAMs "digging" or even "claiming", the reality is that the distribution is much more fundamental and less complicated. A bug/exploit would need involve the fundamental guarantees of all crypto currencies. In short, there is no evidence at all to suggest there is any exploit. There is little doubt that the user claiming does control the private keys for the coins they are claiming. How they gained access to those keys is anyone's guess.
Based on the above, - Have there been a 'control' check to see if there is a potential bug/exploit - if we are saying many people should benefit from the dig, surely there should be a limit on clam clients on how many addresses they can dig, daily or over the lifetime m2c
There is absolutely no reason to believe there is any exploit. If there is an exploit; I highly doubt the user begins by applying it to CLAM, when there are so many juicy BTC out there to steal (It would almost certainly apply to BTC as well). Again, a change to the "claim" process is highly unlikely; and not presently planned. Seems fairly reasonable to assume that the entity digging is actually an exchange or larger bitcoin service. Outside of this there really isn't much reason for anyone to have generated 10000s of private keys with a non-zero balance. I would guess we are talking maybe an older dice service or early exchange. My money might be on BTC-E or Satoshidice wising up to the fact that they can dig for 'free money' using the private keys of their former clients.
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shanem
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August 26, 2015, 03:21:09 PM |
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I sold everything, seems that's the only thing to do like now. Will buy back when this crazyness will stop.
Someone just keep offloading their clams even at a cheap price. If you can the trade history of clams in poloniex, you can see constant selling even the price is very low.
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dooglus
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August 26, 2015, 04:48:00 PM |
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- if we are saying many people should benefit from the dig, surely there should be a limit on clam clients on how many addresses they can dig, daily or over the lifetime
I don't think this point was fully addressed in SuperClam's answer. Note that the CLAM client is open source. Any limit we put in the client could easily be changed or removed. There is no network consensus rule about "digs per client per day", and there cannot be, because it is impossible to tell clients apart from each other. To spend an initial-distribution output all you need to do is sign a transaction that spends it. Each initial-distrubition output was created using the BTC (or LTC, or DOGE) address' public key, and so to spend it you need the corresponding private key. Any exploit that is able to spend other people's initial-distribution CLAMs on the CLAM blockchain would also be able to spend their BTC on the BTC blockchain, since exactly the same mechanism is used in both cases. Yesterday I spent some time looking at the BTC addresses which were "dug" recently. I fed them into https://www.walletexplorer.com/ which calls itself a "Bitcoin block explorer with address grouping and wallet labeling". The idea is that for each BTC address you give it, it tells you which site's hot wallet the address is in. It was unable to identify the wallet of very many of the dug addresses I tried. It was only able to identify the wallet of about 1% of the addresses I looked up, and in every case it identified them as being in the BetVIP.com wallet. BetVIP appears to have launched in March 2014 and shut down in June 2015. Here's a video of its founder talking in April 2015, claiming (at 0:30) that it officially launched in June 2014. I guess it's possible that their hot wallet was stolen by or sold to the digger, or that someone from BetVIP is the digger. It seems unlikely that a relatively unknown site that launched just 2 months before (or one month after) the CLAM snapshot could have received 3% of the CLAM distribution, and so it remains a mystery where the bulk of the addresses have come from. I'm not sure how accurate or complete walletexplorer.com is, but I would expect it to have shown up at least one hit on the MtGox or BTC-e wallets if it was them who were digging...
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dooglus
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August 26, 2015, 04:54:03 PM |
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I sold everything, seems that's the only thing to do like now. Will buy back when this crazyness will stop.
Seems like a reasonable strategy to me. Someone just keep offloading their clams even at a cheap price. If you can the trade history of clams in poloniex, you can see constant selling even the price is very low.
If that is going to continue, then selling now and buying back later seems like the only rational action.
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dave23
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August 26, 2015, 04:57:04 PM |
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- if we are saying many people should benefit from the dig, surely there should be a limit on clam clients on how many addresses they can dig, daily or over the lifetime
I don't think this point was fully addressed in SuperClam's answer. Note that the CLAM client is open source. Any limit we put in the client could easily be changed or removed. There is no network consensus rule about "digs per client per day", and there cannot be, because it is impossible to tell clients apart from each other. To spend an initial-distribution output all you need to do is sign a transaction that spends it. Each initial-distrubition output was created using the BTC (or LTC, or DOGE) address' public key, and so to spend it you need the corresponding private key. Any exploit that is able to spend other people's initial-distribution CLAMs on the CLAM blockchain would also be able to spend their BTC on the BTC blockchain, since exactly the same mechanism is used in both cases. Yesterday I spent some time looking at the BTC addresses which were "dug" recently. I fed them into https://www.walletexplorer.com/ which calls itself a "Bitcoin block explorer with address grouping and wallet labeling". The idea is that for each BTC address you give it, it tells you which site's hot wallet the address is in. It was unable to identify the wallet of very many of the dug addresses I tried. It was only able to identify the wallet of about 1% of the addresses I looked up, and in every case it identified them as being in the BetVIP.com wallet. BetVIP appears to have launched in March 2014 and shut down in June 2015. Here's a video of its founder talking in April 2015, claiming (at 0:30) that it officially launched in June 2014. I guess it's possible that their hot wallet was stolen by or sold to the digger, or that someone from BetVIP is the digger. It seems unlikely that a relatively unknown site that launched just 2 months before (or one month after) the CLAM snapshot could have received 3% of the CLAM distribution, and so it remains a mystery where the bulk of the addresses have come from. I'm not sure how accurate or complete walletexplorer.com is, but I would expect it to have shown up at least one hit on the MtGox or BTC-e wallets if it was them who were digging... Can you post a list of BTC addresses somewhere? I have a theory on where they came from that i can check.
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dooglus
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August 26, 2015, 05:47:45 PM |
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Can you post a list of BTC addresses somewhere? I have a theory on where they came from that i can check.
Here's some of it. The full list is at http://privatepaste.com/2b3f383378 date time block CLAM BTC ------------------- ----- ---------------------------------- ---------------------------------- 2015-08-24 00:57:37 9127 xA2e3ToujRUFtHM6YfoUJ5GDEyQET4SY8A 12j19aySThzDquFECCAortyS1s718Nr3jb 2015-08-24 04:35:27 9128 xCjKPXJsh6y3W2Ppi4duuFBGXZfMaK352y 15RgVeUQRPV1TeHxMb1FU4tVJTN8CqzWw7 2015-08-24 04:35:27 9128 xJPycvrvxEsdFhJcm2wpUnjoCPgc8aX2TM 1B6Lj42TgXPbDKCkQZKA3cT1yHPNkQa972 2015-08-24 04:35:27 9128 xDqGZRVy3UAC72D85b2uGz99YW4TsHQkT5 16XdfYfVmkgA4e7Fj7QEqorNKPmEUqWeGH 2015-08-24 04:35:27 9128 xGLdvsLJFMjaaK7koPaY393xJLeVv9QbKw 19312zVpyeFYXw1tSuwsbxmB5EMGT8Eb18 2015-08-24 04:35:27 9128 xHA1fNdXsb5A3ZGwZ8QhowP9WT8CZsoVBU 19rNmVo4bsb81BB5Cen3Nm6NHLpy9Tugkf 2015-08-24 04:35:27 9128 xVFkcHLhWA8aTvcLtPE4CHCVoGkdobCNCG 1Mx7iQWEESeYRYWUXubPm6uiaATQSDeozi 2015-08-24 04:35:27 9128 xSH5z8EpvGRMis2oRr2kmekK9BKZuCrDdd 1JyT6FQMeYwKgUvw5NQ6LUTXv52LVJE3XF 2015-08-24 04:35:27 9128 xUSQUzdfyakGo6eWTQNzc2nUGL1NQ4H6LK 1M8mb7oChsGEkiYe6vkLArVh3Di95sLNk8 2015-08-24 04:41:04 9128 xTTuoGpCP3nRxh6KY8QTzvWhupZtmw3Js6 1LAGuPyj7LJPvJzTBemoZkDvgiGfMTwjGt 2015-08-24 04:41:04 9128 xGwRtq1wmWMi4o1d7F6vfKJcRBcvhMgrMh 19dnzxBUVnsg2QukkmUGE91qC5KhMEK5ue 2015-08-24 04:41:04 9128 xMgyGfjLqVN1e7NY3TnX5EkfnYErt8o99Y 1EPLNntsZmsybjGfgz9re4TtZRwdQ2dMUz 2015-08-24 04:41:04 9128 xQeFwuLrw2NBR66R1Jj3j8fztkvZPvQo4Z 1HLd42WPfJt9NhzYeq6PHxPDfedKyFQQyg 2015-08-24 04:41:04 9128 xJMkZj9TzbcPfCxKNFiQZKDcPu3rRSsa75 1B47frJzit8McprT1n5k88vqAnkd4J76Ub 2015-08-24 04:41:04 9128 xKYNoC2H2pRt5zhjPTiN9AiXTztJmiMVFc 1CEjuKBom6wr3cbs2z5hhzRkEtb5NfH9Jp 2015-08-24 04:41:04 9128 xSYi2LEKchVDbZQDZHfXsMQKhYjLofPs9u 1KF58TPrLz1BZBJMCp2sSB7YUSS7NtQain 2015-08-24 04:41:04 9128 xH9vWGTTeTKvFJuCNbPc5t8SZKsztp96MY 19rHcPczNjqtCvoL27kwehqfLDamXJH9D8 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 xNCtWGbfL59izfTNJ5pJ2tYSUyh21yBgt3 1EuFcPmC4MfgxHMVwcBdbiFfFsPnaqUHof 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 xDwvTK6aCXMfgunvhVGMwWmavCQNVoZ7ro 16eHZSG6vosdeXh4M1dhWLUoh6798MYkKJ 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 xPfaPcUTZbTghUjWxjJFHUCZCPCxCt9XGN 1GMwVjdzHsyef6decFfarHumyGuin4htyv 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 x9MaPUqE5gr2GJYNroQLG4zomRuSE252ad 123wVbzkoyMzDvSWWKmfpti2YKcCnPkmXq 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 xK2AqErij5BseSGd1SANsd9eYdGHGFnsUB 1BiXwN2FTMhqc4AkexXiSSrsKWy3xqUEWc 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 xPAvoLBzummFHSxBQkG1ThvAeDvv1HFvhc 1FsHuTMXe4HDF4rK4GdM2XdPR7dgbwxyPU 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 xJYLFgP6ZDrBtTyKjoxaTj48JyTMo6vRze 1BEhMoYdHWN9r5sTPLKv2YmM5sA8Sgepkq 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 xKGgBAtccbUo46nfTjs6NWHYq1JpE612rf 1By3HJ49Lszm1igo7GERwKzmbu1asvBEZE 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 xVgmo1MtvMyLXKnc7pqDtNbLD5RjqeRzKk 1NP8u8XReeVJUwgjmMCZTCJYyy8WQv8WAx 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 xH1WKUNsKXkHHwduKk71t2f9ncz78b8CLJ 19hsRbYQ3pGFFZY2yGUMSrNNZWgsk3u9dQ 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 xRnwCz4wDa6yuUBFn84uTpSgkgDo4W7Mvw 1JVJK7ETwrcws65PReSF2e9uXZvZcPjx2V 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 xNKWKiwDYALcD3v4jZZJFhcm4XT6GoxDW3 1F1sRr6kGSraAfpCP5vdpXKyqR9rrGZzDT 2015-08-24 05:01:02 9128 xQUC6SEetLVACSdiK494QTMcwLwpkhQTKw 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dooglus
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August 26, 2015, 07:05:09 PM |
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It's quite possible that the acquiring company didn't get a copy of the site's hot wallet. In fact it's likely they wouldn't, so that neither party has to trust the other with private keys.
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dave23
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August 26, 2015, 08:40:38 PM |
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Can you post a list of BTC addresses somewhere? I have a theory on where they came from that i can check.
Here's some of it. The full list is at http://privatepaste.com/2b3f383378*SNIP* Thanks I think I know how this digger came to have so many addresses now.
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thefix
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August 26, 2015, 09:17:50 PM |
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A really cool thing to do would be to create another distribution with similar properties based on Clams.
Send the distribution out to wallets when poloniex was the only exchange to have clams listed, something like .10 of the new coin for every clam you have.
This would reward/protect early adopters and poloniex would likely distribute them to its users.
Call it something like Clam Pearls it would be like having $1 chips and $5 chips at the casino(just-dice)
This would allow you to keep the original model intact and test out a smaller distribution among loyalists
Maybe even exclude exchange wallets if possible
Just a thought
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tspacepilot
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I may write code in exchange for bitcoins.
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August 26, 2015, 09:18:03 PM |
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Can you post a list of BTC addresses somewhere? I have a theory on where they came from that i can check.
Here's some of it. The full list is at http://privatepaste.com/2b3f383378*SNIP* Thanks I think I know how this digger came to have so many addresses now. "drumroll, please!" ... ... [drumroll continuing] ... ... Well, don't leave us hanging!
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BayAreaCoins
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Owner at AltQuick.com
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August 26, 2015, 09:26:44 PM |
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Land of Bitcoins?
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dave23
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 26, 2015, 11:54:29 PM |
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Can you post a list of BTC addresses somewhere? I have a theory on where they came from that i can check.
Here's some of it. The full list is at http://privatepaste.com/2b3f383378*SNIP* Thanks I think I know how this digger came to have so many addresses now. "drumroll, please!" ... ... [drumroll continuing] ... ... Well, don't leave us hanging! Sorry, I should have been clearer. I don't know anything concrete but I believe that these addresses came from operating a mining pool in the end of 2013/early 2014.
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dooglus
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August 26, 2015, 11:55:17 PM |
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I had non-zero balance in 12 may 2014 in BTC encrypted wallet.dat Importing of this wallet do nothing. Where is my CLAM ![Huh](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/huh.gif) We ended up PMing back and forth about this, and he finally got his free CLAMs. It turned out that: * he was fully synced * his BTC address was funded at the snapshot date * the 'receive' tab showed the corresponding CLAM address, so the import worked * but the balance was still zero I fixed the problem for him by having him run "clam-qt -rescan" - and then the coins showed up. I don't know how the client go into that state. I'm wondering if maybe he quit the client while it appeared 'hung up' while it was rescanning the blockchain after doing the import, and that left the addresses imported, but the rescan not done. But that's just a guess. Anyway: -rescan for the win.
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kaaz
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August 27, 2015, 01:48:03 AM Last edit: August 27, 2015, 02:15:00 AM by kaaz |
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I have decided to share my idea with uncomfortable feelings. If you do not like my post, please kindly ignore it, it is just my stupid idea.
The digger might be an active botnet (trojan) master since 2014.
1. Several dug addresses were funded by mining pool, faucet, and pay to ad-click. These are generic money making methods that would be deployed on botnet zombie PCs by botnet master.
2. Someone argues that, botnet master do not have to generate many btc addresses on many zombie PCs like this. But I think, more btc addresses on more zombie IP addresses is a key success factor for his money making methods.
3. There are remaining btc (only few satoshi) on several dug addresses. It it is not worth collecting btc out from these zombie addresses with 0.0001 tx fee.
4. It is not likely that e-wallet or exchange admin or site owner will do this. Legit admin or site owner will not likely to dig clams with their non zero balance customer addresses. If all dug addresses are zero-balance, it should be possible that they are digging from idle-suspended customer file.
5. This botnet master were not intent to be clams digger before he just found out a new way to make money with clam digging in last few days ago. (or may be the insider too T.T)
I hope this could be helpful for our community to find who is this destructive digger. If not, again please ignore me.
P.S. sorry for my bad English too.
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tspacepilot
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August 27, 2015, 05:02:31 AM |
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I hope this could be helpful for our community to find who is this destructive digger. If not, again please ignore me.
A curious hypothesis. The main part I want to comment on is whether or not this digger is destructive. 1) The more he digs clams from the initial dist, the less you have to worry when or where they'll be dug (you get the uncertainty out of the way) 2) The cheaper he sells his bounty, the cheaper the clams for everyone interested in buying. If you were happy to buy at 0.01BTC, shouldn't you be jumping to buy at half price (or lower). It seems to me that what's going on is a real buy opportunities for the true CLAM believers.
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dooglus
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August 27, 2015, 07:21:42 AM |
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I've been noticing recently that the CLAM wallet on Just-Dice was getting slower and slower. Withdrawals were taking up to 10 seconds to process for instance. So I made a new hot wallet and moved all the coins from the old one to the new one. http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/CLAM/address.php?address=xJDCLAMZSGaTadAzcS7tcVNTa46qCr6j2s shows the balance of the main address in the old wallet. The balance should be zero, but here it is shown as being negative: ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPS7ED6H.png&t=665&c=8pWDO3zp5qRr8w) I have to assume that's a bug in the block explorer site. http://blocktree.io/address/CLAM/xJDCLAMZSGaTadAzcS7tcVNTa46qCr6j2s for instance shows the balance correctly as 0 CLAM. I've tried finding the forum thread for the presstab.pw explorer, but failed. Edit: I emailed the address I found on the front page of the block explorer site.
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