[ANN] AEON: Scalable, private, mobile-friendly cryptocurrency

[Big Naturals]

I was thinking about this over this weekend. Are we the shitcoin? I criticize Ethereum and other cryptocoins for being centralized but I have not looked at the coin I support more objectively.

We have low market capitalization, a very low volume orderbook and the code is very outdated, but soon will only be a Monero copycat.

Also, if I wanted to dump all my coins, I can't because it would crash the price. I am not saying I am a whale. It will not take that much to crash Aeon.

I think it's unfair to call AEON a shitcoin. It does not have any shiny new exciting features, but at least it was fairly launched without a pre-mine.

'Shitcoin' is a technical term, and aeon does not meet the definition at all, we have a good dev, good tech, and not much bullshit hype and pumping going on ever,  so i would say aeon is a top coin in the second tier of cryptos that are basically copies of earlier coins but with a few tweaks and ability to experiment without involving the parent coin. I would imagine most xmr whales have a few aeon as a hedge.

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[hyc]

Agreed. Monero's idea of slightly altering the PoW parameters every X months is just whack-a-mole, and doesn't sound like a proper development plan for any serious tech person.

No, but in a sense they did take credit for it by promoting the algorithm as such without making improvements to harden it, so the burden is theirs to carry just the same. I fully agree with teknohog's assumption that their decision to alter PoW parameters every quarter is flawed logic and shows level of amateur design and development going into Monero. It's no wonder why Edward Snowden classifies it as an amateur cryptocurrency project.

Nobody sane would suggest that slightly tweaking the PoW algo every few months is a viable strategy. That's obvious and well understood.

https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/3545#issuecomment-378437013

multi-gigabyte memory requirements

Large memory requirements will not in and of themselves make it ASIC resistant. If just the amount of memory is the the main issue, then ASIC builders can just attach a lot of cheap external memory as they are doing with Ethereum ASICs. (Not intended as a review of MTP generally, just the comment about memory usage.)

Or the more logical approach would be to simply just take up an interest in Boolberry and support the superior project. Now that Crypto_zoidberg is back with a full team of developers to support him and the fundamental flaws present in Monero's design it's the only logical decision at this point. Instead of simply migrating to Monero's codebase like Aeon is doing, Zoidberg is making substantial improvements with his own unique LMDB implementation (due for release next week) which leaves 3 unique cryptonote codebases: Bytecoin, Monero and Boolberry.

https://github.com/cryptozoidberg/boolberry/branches

(work on LMDB can be viewed on LMDB and LMDB_Core branches).

https://medium.com/@BoolberryBBR/boolberry-monthly-progress-report-march-ccb7d1433472

(Not intended as a review of MTP generally, just the comment about memory usage.)

Not taken as one, however, our our full review on MTP-Argon2 can be viewed at the ePrint below.

"Itsuku: a Memory-Hardened Proof-of-Work Scheme"
https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/1168

What started as an initial review of Cryptonight, Wild Keccak and later MTP-Argon2 spiraled into full blown R&D of a new algorithm Itsuku. Over the course of the last year we've achieved 1/16th the proof size of the original MTP design and hardened it against all known attack vectors. We also provide proper hardware design for the algorithm. Among other things, the beauty of Itsuku is that memory bandwidth is the limiting factor, not the size, so even 64GiB over 4GiB will not see much improvement. This algorithm will be used in our upcoming Moneda [XMN] and Doubloon [XDB] reference projects. ZCoin and Turtlecoin are the only projects I know of waiting for us to release either reference project so they can use the algorithm in their system.

https://github.com/turtlecoin/meta/issues/74

Feel free to read through it. In section 6, we briefly outline comparative analysis between Cryptonight, Wild Keccak and Itsuku. That will give you a better understanding of the underlying systems here. We plan on releasing another paper that focuses purely on Cryptonight vs Wild Keccak with improvements that will be made to the latter increase egalitarian properties however this will be released after only after our next paper is published.

In our initial discovery we've found that WK is much better suited than CN to retain said properties. As stated earlier the quick and easy solution would be to adopt WK but again at that point you'd be better off just supporting Boolberry as the original developer is back on the project full time.

Fyi, HBM High Bandwidth Memory is a thing. Relying on high latency of data accesses (so-called memory-hardness) is also a fallacy wrt ASIC resistance. The PoW approach I'm working on will succeed because it also mandates instruction fetching - code accesses, not just data accesses. And the instruction stream is highly branchy, with poorly predictable branch frequencies, which will guarantee long pipeline stalls without expensive CPU-style branch prediction hardware.

[estenity]

good news for aeon rebase and next fork date (May 28th?) from katiecharm:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Aeon/comments/8is3q2/state_of_the_aeon_friday_may_11th_smooth_xmr/

[Elder III]

Excellent news for Aeon going forward. I'm pretty curious to see how much the network hashrate drops after the fork goes through. I'd like to be able to mine it again since right now the difficulty is so high that it hardly pays the power bill.

[bbc.reporter]

I was thinking about this over this weekend. Are we the shitcoin? I criticize Ethereum and other cryptocoins for being centralized but I have not looked at the coin I support more objectively.

We have low market capitalization, a very low volume orderbook and the code is very outdated, but soon will only be a Monero copycat.

Also, if I wanted to dump all my coins, I can't because it would crash the price. I am not saying I am a whale. It will not take that much to crash Aeon.

I think it's unfair to call AEON a shitcoin. It does not have any shiny new exciting features, but at least it was fairly launched without a pre-mine.

'Shitcoin' is a technical term, and aeon does not meet the definition at all, we have a good dev, good tech, and not much bullshit hype and pumping going on ever,  so i would say aeon is a top coin in the second tier of cryptos that are basically copies of earlier coins but with a few tweaks and ability to experiment without involving the parent coin. I would imagine most xmr whales have a few aeon as a hedge.

I can see your point and I agree, we have a good developer. But Aeon's development is very behind, the code rebase will only make it a Monero copy cat and it does not have enough volume and liquidity in the exchanges.

As a counterargument, Ethereum had an ICO and some bullshit hype and pumping. Is it a shitcoin?

[AngryWhiteWolf]

Excellent news for Aeon going forward. I'm pretty curious to see how much the network hashrate drops after the fork goes through. I'd like to be able to mine it again since right now the difficulty is so high that it hardly pays the power bill.

Today is ~85MH/s, yesterday when I checked was over 90, I expect to be back in the range of 16-20 after the fork. I'm surprised that the price was not going up, but it'll happen very soon I believe.

[boomboombazookajeff]

I was pleasantly surprised by the the recent post on the subreddit. It is good to have involved posts from the dev team that are open to the community. If this keeps up, it can help change the atmosphere and AEON's recent performance slump.

[bbc.reporter]

@boomboombazooka. Yes I hope so. Aeon has been around longer than most other altcoins but the newer coins have 10x more value in marketcap only because they are marketing their coins well.

But if we look at Aeon, we have nothing. After the code rebase, it will be a Monero copy cat once again. I hope that will change as it develops.

[Dastrike351]

Yeah, and monero is also kind of dying... aeon ranking is dropping.... what kind of tech aeon offer that other coins dont already have....?

[cryptouser]

@boomboombazooka. Yes I hope so. Aeon has been around longer than most other altcoins but the newer coins have 10x more value in marketcap only because they are marketing their coins well.

But if we look at Aeon, we have nothing. After the code rebase, it will be a Monero copy cat once again. I hope that will change as it develops.

And how is that wrong actually?? it has monero features but with "light" mining algorithm that makes it easier to mine on any device, and thus make the network stronger.
However being so far behind xmr with the algo implementation I have a feeling that a huge dump is going to happen around the fork; those asic miners that are raping the coin right now will get rid of it as soon as it makes the changes

[stoffu]

Name for the next release:
https://github.com/aeonix/aeon-rebase/issues/6

[bbc.reporter]

@boomboombazooka. Yes I hope so. Aeon has been around longer than most other altcoins but the newer coins have 10x more value in marketcap only because they are marketing their coins well.

But if we look at Aeon, we have nothing. After the code rebase, it will be a Monero copy cat once again. I hope that will change as it develops.

And how is that wrong actually?? it has monero features but with "light" mining algorithm that makes it easier to mine on any device, and thus make the network stronger.
However being so far behind xmr with the algo implementation I have a feeling that a huge dump is going to happen around the fork; those asic miners that are raping the coin right now will get rid of it as soon as it makes the changes

How? It is very wrong. A proprivacy cryptocoin like Aeon is depending on real usage for it to become more valuable. We in the Aeon community are not only supporting and holding it because it will grow our investment, but we are also here with the hope that Aeon will be another widely utilized coin like bitcoin. But how can we achieve that by being a Monero copy cat? Then the users would preferably use Monero. It has more volume, more nodes and a larger community.

[smooth]

@bbc I'm not sure what you are going on about being a "Monero copy cat" after the fork?

As far as I can tell there is no real change in the relative positioning vs. Monero pre- and post-fork. AEON started out as a Monero fork/clone and had some unique changes made to it, which will remain after the fork. The only thing that is really changing is replacing the 2-year old Monero code that was the base of the original fork with a currently-updated baseline.

Actually at this point it is more diverged from Monero than it has ever been since Monero has gone full RingCT (without BP) with huge 12 KB transactions and AEON has not (which means there is a clear tradeoff in terms of smaller/cheaper transactions with moderate privacy vs. a deeper level of privacy at much higher cost). We will probably adopt bulletproofs in some manner so that divergence will resolve to partial convergence but there will still be differences. As an ongoing trajectory I don't see the post-fork copy cat argument making sense.

[Digital Galaxy]

I am pondering how Aeon will be different from Monero.
Monero's definitely on a solid trajectory, both in value and in stability use. Aeon can only hope to follow in it's footsteps as a sister coin.

[Millionero]

With all this talk of Monero copycats, I would just like to say...
Will the real Monero Cat please stand up?

[bbc.reporter]

@bbc I'm not sure what you are going on about being a "Monero copy cat" after the fork?

As far as I can tell there is no real change in the relative positioning vs. Monero pre- and post-fork. AEON started out as a Monero fork/clone and had some unique changes made to it, which will remain after the fork. The only thing that is really changing is replacing the 2-year old Monero code that was the base of the original fork with a currently-updated baseline.

Actually at this point it is more diverged from Monero than it has ever been since Monero has gone full RingCT (without BP) with huge 12 KB transactions and AEON has not (which means there is a clear tradeoff in terms of smaller/cheaper transactions with moderate privacy vs. a deeper level of privacy at much higher cost). We will probably adopt bulletproofs in some manner so that divergence will resolve to partial convergence but there will still be differences. As an ongoing trajectory I don't see the post-fork copy cat argument making sense.

Yes there will be small differences, but what I mean is we cannot suppose Aeon's price to reach new highs if it only copies from what Monero is doing. Maybe the term Monero copycat is the wrong one to use. But you know what I mean. If Aeon has to ascend on its own then it has to develop its own ideas.

Blockchain pruning was developed in Aeon. I reckon developing that further to be more efficient might make giant strides for the project.

[estenity]

@bbc I'm not sure what you are going on about being a "Monero copy cat" after the fork?

As far as I can tell there is no real change in the relative positioning vs. Monero pre- and post-fork. AEON started out as a Monero fork/clone and had some unique changes made to it, which will remain after the fork. The only thing that is really changing is replacing the 2-year old Monero code that was the base of the original fork with a currently-updated baseline.

Actually at this point it is more diverged from Monero than it has ever been since Monero has gone full RingCT (without BP) with huge 12 KB transactions and AEON has not (which means there is a clear tradeoff in terms of smaller/cheaper transactions with moderate privacy vs. a deeper level of privacy at much higher cost). We will probably adopt bulletproofs in some manner so that divergence will resolve to partial convergence but there will still be differences. As an ongoing trajectory I don't see the post-fork copy cat argument making sense.

Yes there will be small differences, but what I mean is we cannot suppose Aeon's price to reach new highs if it only copies from what Monero is doing. Maybe the term Monero copycat is the wrong one to use. But you know what I mean. If Aeon has to ascend on its own then it has to develop its own ideas.

Blockchain pruning was developed in Aeon. I reckon developing that further to be more efficient might make giant strides for the project.

there may be another potent motivator for newcomers:
with 190 usd you have the choice to get one xmr or 100 aeons, if you want to invest in a privacy-oriented coin presently, with a comparable technology.

[smooth]

@bbc I'm not sure what you are going on about being a "Monero copy cat" after the fork?

As far as I can tell there is no real change in the relative positioning vs. Monero pre- and post-fork. AEON started out as a Monero fork/clone and had some unique changes made to it, which will remain after the fork. The only thing that is really changing is replacing the 2-year old Monero code that was the base of the original fork with a currently-updated baseline.

Actually at this point it is more diverged from Monero than it has ever been since Monero has gone full RingCT (without BP) with huge 12 KB transactions and AEON has not (which means there is a clear tradeoff in terms of smaller/cheaper transactions with moderate privacy vs. a deeper level of privacy at much higher cost). We will probably adopt bulletproofs in some manner so that divergence will resolve to partial convergence but there will still be differences. As an ongoing trajectory I don't see the post-fork copy cat argument making sense.

Yes there will be small differences, but what I mean is we cannot suppose Aeon's price to reach new highs if it only copies from what Monero is doing. Maybe the term Monero copycat is the wrong one to use. But you know what I mean. If Aeon has to ascend on its own then it has to develop its own ideas.

Blockchain pruning was developed in Aeon. I reckon developing that further to be more efficient might make giant strides for the project.

Actually I don't. The only thing we are arguably copying is RingCT, which aren't even being included in this version due to their enormous size/cost!

Other than that we are just taking the Monero code on which AEON was originally based (4 years old) and replacing it with up to date Monero code. I don't understand how that is a negative. Do you update your OS?

We can absolutely continue to innovate if that's what the AEON community wants (and there are developers who want to do the work, potentially paid). Being smaller than Monero has definite advantages in that regard. We don't have to coordinate with 20 or more exchanges on every important update and hard fork. A smaller community has naturally less political barriers to change (though with growth that will come here too). We have a relatively larger dev fund. None of this is anything new.

[bbc.reporter]

@smooth. Yes we should without doubt innovate, but on the simplest areas of the project like a more efficient blockchain pruning, or a less power hungry proof of work algorithm, something.

[cryptouser]

@smooth. Yes we should without doubt innovate, but on the simplest areas of the project like a more efficient blockchain pruning, or a less power hungry proof of work algorithm, something.

Among the other reasons this is also why I love this coin I think it has the least power-hungry algo I've ever mined so far...