[ANN] AEON: Cryptonote privacy, efficiency, decentralization, and stability

[boomboombazookajeff]

...words....

so this is basically an advertisment for boolberry?

Yes, and not to veer too far afield, but the crux of the argument in the advertisement seems to be "buy now because zoidberg is back", which seems like a pretty silly reason to buy since however smart the guy is he is clearly flaky af and could disappear for another three years at any moment. Bilberry was interesting, wasn't a fan of the 1% dev tax, but that seems mild and quaint by today's standards - I don't think you can raise a currency from the dead though (which to some extent aeon is attempting to do as well).

I think having a committed dev is an integral part of a project and AEON is superior in that way since there is Stoffu and Smooth and none of them ever left the project on a whim.

[1590752300]

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[1590752300]

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[yszbsducdm650]

That'd require non trivial Javascript code I think. And either continuous recalculation from scratch, or getting the pool to work out which blocks it found were reorganized away to remove those shares that were tentatively added. Just not worth it.

[annapotpot]

Anyone knows what coin uses cryptonight-lightv7?

[smooth]

Anyone knows what coin uses cryptonight-lightv7?

None yet. AEON will use it after the fork.

BTW,

Code:

21:42 < stoffu> I’m just running the new daemon. I guess we can consider it as stable enough if there’s no
                further issue after a week or so.

Hopefully we will be ready to tag for the fork next week.

[SparkIt]

Should I continue to mine this coin?

The answer to this question everyone find independently. However, judging by the significant increase in complexity over the past two weeks, many miners would answer You "Yes, of course!".

[estenity]

contribution to the active debate on ASICS

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/8h2sbd/can_somebody_explain_to_me_how_monero_was_able_to/

[bbc.reporter]

I was thinking about this over this weekend. Are we the shitcoin? I criticize Ethereum and other cryptocoins for being centralized but I have not looked at the coin I support more objectively.

We have low market capitalization, a very low volume orderbook and the code is very outdated, but soon will only be a Monero copycat.

Also, if I wanted to dump all my coins, I can't because it would crash the price. I am not saying I am a whale. It will not take that much to crash Aeon.

[estenity]

I was thinking about this over this weekend. Are we the shitcoin? I criticize Ethereum and other cryptocoins for being centralized but I have not looked at the coin I support more objectively.

We have low market capitalization, a very low volume orderbook and the code is very outdated, but soon will only be a Monero copycat.

Also, if I wanted to dump all my coins, I can't because it would crash the price. I am not saying I am a whale. It will not take that much to crash Aeon.

we are responsible for our invesments.

the general debate is not very quiet presently, many rushing presently in cryptos, but also a huge fud, and a lot of fighting.

i do not feel more insecure here. there is really a lot of shitcoins.

at least here there is a cohesive attitude, and apparent clarity.

[boomboombazookajeff]

I was thinking about this over this weekend. Are we the shitcoin? I criticize Ethereum and other cryptocoins for being centralized but I have not looked at the coin I support more objectively.

We have low market capitalization, a very low volume orderbook and the code is very outdated, but soon will only be a Monero copycat.

Also, if I wanted to dump all my coins, I can't because it would crash the price. I am not saying I am a whale. It will not take that much to crash Aeon.

By association with Monero, AEON cannot be a shitcoin. It is, however, in need of a large push (probably by way of the rebase) in the right direction. Also, please do not crash the price without telling me

[bbc.reporter]

I was thinking about this over this weekend. Are we the shitcoin? I criticize Ethereum and other cryptocoins for being centralized but I have not looked at the coin I support more objectively.

We have low market capitalization, a very low volume orderbook and the code is very outdated, but soon will only be a Monero copycat.

Also, if I wanted to dump all my coins, I can't because it would crash the price. I am not saying I am a whale. It will not take that much to crash Aeon.

we are responsible for our invesments.

the general debate is not very quiet presently, many rushing presently in cryptos, but also a huge fud, and a lot of fighting.

i do not feel more insecure here. there is really a lot of shitcoins.

at least here there is a cohesive attitude, and apparent clarity.

Yes we should but that is not the point. I am asking, objectively, is Aeon a shitcoin? Are we the only people loving it because we hold it?

@boomboombazookajeff. Yes, I have to be honest that the only reason I am still holding Aeon is because of smooth and stoffu because I trust them, and they are the only developers who can get Aeon out of shitcoin status if it was that,

[estenity]

I was thinking about this over this weekend. Are we the shitcoin? I criticize Ethereum and other cryptocoins for being centralized but I have not looked at the coin I support more objectively.

We have low market capitalization, a very low volume orderbook and the code is very outdated, but soon will only be a Monero copycat.

Also, if I wanted to dump all my coins, I can't because it would crash the price. I am not saying I am a whale. It will not take that much to crash Aeon.

we are responsible for our invesments.

the general debate is not very quiet presently, many rushing presently in cryptos, but also a huge fud, and a lot of fighting.

i do not feel more insecure here. there is really a lot of shitcoins.

at least here there is a cohesive attitude, and apparent clarity.

Yes we should but that is not the point. I am asking, objectively, is Aeon a shitcoin? Are we the only people loving it because we hold it?

@boomboombazookajeff. Yes, I have to be honest that the only reason I am still holding Aeon is because of smooth and stoffu because I trust them, and they are the only developers who can get Aeon out of shitcoin status if it was that,

I agree that it is a delicate phase. I hope we shall go out quickly.

but technical issues have to be fixed.

[mattcode]

I was thinking about this over this weekend. Are we the shitcoin? I criticize Ethereum and other cryptocoins for being centralized but I have not looked at the coin I support more objectively.

We have low market capitalization, a very low volume orderbook and the code is very outdated, but soon will only be a Monero copycat.

Also, if I wanted to dump all my coins, I can't because it would crash the price. I am not saying I am a whale. It will not take that much to crash Aeon.

I think it's unfair to call AEON a shitcoin. It does not have any shiny new exciting features, but at least it was fairly launched without a pre-mine.

[Big Naturals]

I was thinking about this over this weekend. Are we the shitcoin? I criticize Ethereum and other cryptocoins for being centralized but I have not looked at the coin I support more objectively.

We have low market capitalization, a very low volume orderbook and the code is very outdated, but soon will only be a Monero copycat.

Also, if I wanted to dump all my coins, I can't because it would crash the price. I am not saying I am a whale. It will not take that much to crash Aeon.

I think it's unfair to call AEON a shitcoin. It does not have any shiny new exciting features, but at least it was fairly launched without a pre-mine.

'Shitcoin' is a technical term, and aeon does not meet the definition at all, we have a good dev, good tech, and not much bullshit hype and pumping going on ever,  so i would say aeon is a top coin in the second tier of cryptos that are basically copies of earlier coins but with a few tweaks and ability to experiment without involving the parent coin. I would imagine most xmr whales have a few aeon as a hedge.

[hyc]

Agreed. Monero's idea of slightly altering the PoW parameters every X months is just whack-a-mole, and doesn't sound like a proper development plan for any serious tech person.

No, but in a sense they did take credit for it by promoting the algorithm as such without making improvements to harden it, so the burden is theirs to carry just the same. I fully agree with teknohog's assumption that their decision to alter PoW parameters every quarter is flawed logic and shows level of amateur design and development going into Monero. It's no wonder why Edward Snowden classifies it as an amateur cryptocurrency project.

Nobody sane would suggest that slightly tweaking the PoW algo every few months is a viable strategy. That's obvious and well understood.

https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/3545#issuecomment-378437013

multi-gigabyte memory requirements

Large memory requirements will not in and of themselves make it ASIC resistant. If just the amount of memory is the the main issue, then ASIC builders can just attach a lot of cheap external memory as they are doing with Ethereum ASICs. (Not intended as a review of MTP generally, just the comment about memory usage.)

Or the more logical approach would be to simply just take up an interest in Boolberry and support the superior project. Now that Crypto_zoidberg is back with a full team of developers to support him and the fundamental flaws present in Monero's design it's the only logical decision at this point. Instead of simply migrating to Monero's codebase like Aeon is doing, Zoidberg is making substantial improvements with his own unique LMDB implementation (due for release next week) which leaves 3 unique cryptonote codebases: Bytecoin, Monero and Boolberry.

https://github.com/cryptozoidberg/boolberry/branches

(work on LMDB can be viewed on LMDB and LMDB_Core branches).

https://medium.com/@BoolberryBBR/boolberry-monthly-progress-report-march-ccb7d1433472

(Not intended as a review of MTP generally, just the comment about memory usage.)

Not taken as one, however, our our full review on MTP-Argon2 can be viewed at the ePrint below.

"Itsuku: a Memory-Hardened Proof-of-Work Scheme"
https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/1168

What started as an initial review of Cryptonight, Wild Keccak and later MTP-Argon2 spiraled into full blown R&D of a new algorithm Itsuku. Over the course of the last year we've achieved 1/16th the proof size of the original MTP design and hardened it against all known attack vectors. We also provide proper hardware design for the algorithm. Among other things, the beauty of Itsuku is that memory bandwidth is the limiting factor, not the size, so even 64GiB over 4GiB will not see much improvement. This algorithm will be used in our upcoming Moneda [XMN] and Doubloon [XDB] reference projects. ZCoin and Turtlecoin are the only projects I know of waiting for us to release either reference project so they can use the algorithm in their system.

https://github.com/turtlecoin/meta/issues/74

Feel free to read through it. In section 6, we briefly outline comparative analysis between Cryptonight, Wild Keccak and Itsuku. That will give you a better understanding of the underlying systems here. We plan on releasing another paper that focuses purely on Cryptonight vs Wild Keccak with improvements that will be made to the latter increase egalitarian properties however this will be released after only after our next paper is published.

In our initial discovery we've found that WK is much better suited than CN to retain said properties. As stated earlier the quick and easy solution would be to adopt WK but again at that point you'd be better off just supporting Boolberry as the original developer is back on the project full time.

Fyi, HBM High Bandwidth Memory is a thing. Relying on high latency of data accesses (so-called memory-hardness) is also a fallacy wrt ASIC resistance. The PoW approach I'm working on will succeed because it also mandates instruction fetching - code accesses, not just data accesses. And the instruction stream is highly branchy, with poorly predictable branch frequencies, which will guarantee long pipeline stalls without expensive CPU-style branch prediction hardware.

[estenity]

good news for aeon rebase and next fork date (May 28th?) from katiecharm:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Aeon/comments/8is3q2/state_of_the_aeon_friday_may_11th_smooth_xmr/

[Elder III]

Excellent news for Aeon going forward. I'm pretty curious to see how much the network hashrate drops after the fork goes through. I'd like to be able to mine it again since right now the difficulty is so high that it hardly pays the power bill.

[bbc.reporter]

I was thinking about this over this weekend. Are we the shitcoin? I criticize Ethereum and other cryptocoins for being centralized but I have not looked at the coin I support more objectively.

We have low market capitalization, a very low volume orderbook and the code is very outdated, but soon will only be a Monero copycat.

Also, if I wanted to dump all my coins, I can't because it would crash the price. I am not saying I am a whale. It will not take that much to crash Aeon.

I think it's unfair to call AEON a shitcoin. It does not have any shiny new exciting features, but at least it was fairly launched without a pre-mine.

'Shitcoin' is a technical term, and aeon does not meet the definition at all, we have a good dev, good tech, and not much bullshit hype and pumping going on ever,  so i would say aeon is a top coin in the second tier of cryptos that are basically copies of earlier coins but with a few tweaks and ability to experiment without involving the parent coin. I would imagine most xmr whales have a few aeon as a hedge.

I can see your point and I agree, we have a good developer. But Aeon's development is very behind, the code rebase will only make it a Monero copy cat and it does not have enough volume and liquidity in the exchanges.

As a counterargument, Ethereum had an ICO and some bullshit hype and pumping. Is it a shitcoin?

[AngryWhiteWolf]

Excellent news for Aeon going forward. I'm pretty curious to see how much the network hashrate drops after the fork goes through. I'd like to be able to mine it again since right now the difficulty is so high that it hardly pays the power bill.

Today is ~85MH/s, yesterday when I checked was over 90, I expect to be back in the range of 16-20 after the fork. I'm surprised that the price was not going up, but it'll happen very soon I believe.

[boomboombazookajeff]

I was pleasantly surprised by the the recent post on the subreddit. It is good to have involved posts from the dev team that are open to the community. If this keeps up, it can help change the atmosphere and AEON's recent performance slump.

[bbc.reporter]

@boomboombazooka. Yes I hope so. Aeon has been around longer than most other altcoins but the newer coins have 10x more value in marketcap only because they are marketing their coins well.

But if we look at Aeon, we have nothing. After the code rebase, it will be a Monero copy cat once again. I hope that will change as it develops.