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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2010296 times)
Erdogan
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November 09, 2014, 02:30:24 PM
 #16321

Érdogan, for purposes of discussion, "sidecoin"  should mean altcoin produced de novo by SC. scBTC should mean what's created from BTC via the 2wp.

I don't agree. Those words are not in the paper, and a coin that is not backed by a bitcoin can not be a part of the peg, and is totally uninteresting.

Edit: The sidechain inventors did not use the word sidecoin, because in their imagination, it is a bitcoin that moves around in the sidechain, which is wrong. The invention of scBTC was from the foggy mind of brg444, I believe.

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justusranvier
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November 09, 2014, 02:32:39 PM
 #16322

https://twitter.com/JustusRanvier/status/531454134357356544
cypherdoc
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November 09, 2014, 02:37:24 PM
 #16323

Well, here we go already. The concept of paper bitcoin is ramping up already;

http://jackcliu.com/post/102166140017/bitcoin-backed-corporate-currencies-are-coming
cypherdoc
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November 09, 2014, 02:39:45 PM
 #16324

Érdogan, for purposes of discussion, "sidecoin"  should mean altcoin produced de novo by SC. scBTC should mean what's created from BTC via the 2wp.

I don't agree. Those words are not in the paper, and a coin that is not backed by a bitcoin can not be a part of the peg, and is totally uninteresting.

Edit: The sidechain inventors did not use the word sidecoin, because in their imagination, it is a bitcoin that moves around in the sidechain, which is wrong. The invention of scBTC was from the foggy mind of brg444, I believe.


Correct but that is how brg444 and i, and I hope everyone else, has been using the terms for the last 200 pages. We have to standardize our language.
cypherdoc
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November 09, 2014, 02:42:34 PM
 #16325


Beat me to it!

You gotta just say it like it is, this will be the equivalent of paper bitcoin.
Erdogan
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November 09, 2014, 02:46:30 PM
 #16326

Érdogan, for purposes of discussion, "sidecoin"  should mean altcoin produced de novo by SC. scBTC should mean what's created from BTC via the 2wp.

I don't agree. Those words are not in the paper, and a coin that is not backed by a bitcoin can not be a part of the peg, and is totally uninteresting.

Edit: The sidechain inventors did not use the word sidecoin, because in their imagination, it is a bitcoin that moves around in the sidechain, which is wrong. The invention of scBTC was from the foggy mind of brg444, I believe.


Correct but that is how brg444 and i, and I hope everyone else, has been using the terms for the last 200 pages. We have to standardize our language.

Fair point. I will have to reconsider, and maybe specify, more often, what my words are intended to mean.


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November 09, 2014, 02:50:32 PM
 #16327

Altcoin devs, corporations, gift card issuers, reward point schemes, banks, gvts are rummaging around their kitchens right now in glee  trying to find the biggest straw they can which they plan to jam through the 2wp and suck through  as hard as they can.

Truthcoin if you want the truth, dammit!


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November 09, 2014, 03:11:03 PM
 #16328

I still don't understand why the core devs would be interested in sidechains. What were they thinking really?

SC's are as much a political move as they are a misconceived attempt to improve the system.

As much as brg444 tried to deny that this isn't an attempt to kill altcoins, it is a fact as I and Melbustus documented.

Political moves designed to eliminate competition by changing the rules (which are what  source code changes to benefit your own for profit company are), as we well know from history, often have the exact  opposite affect from what is intended.
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November 09, 2014, 03:31:04 PM
 #16329

half-jokingly: oh! I think I got why cypher and other seem to be opposed to sidechains: they can be viewed a bit like rehypthecation of assets, like paper gold!

Yes. See Jack Liu and Truthcoin if you want the truth, dammit.
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November 09, 2014, 03:51:04 PM
 #16330

The grownups are happy, because their share of the cake is worth more.

this part isn't even necessarily right.

if your own kids were the ones who ate some bad cake and ended up dying, are you necessarily happier or better off as a result of it?
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November 09, 2014, 04:00:22 PM
 #16331

The grownups are happy, because their share of the cake is worth more.

this part isn't even necessarily right.

if your own kids were the ones who ate some bad cake and ended up dying, are you necessarily happier or better off as a result of it?

actually, let me sharpen that a bit:

if your own kids were the ones who ate some bad cake and ended up dying, are you necessarily happier or better off simply b/c you no longer have to give them their inheritance?

edit:  no answers from the twisted f*cks.
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November 09, 2014, 04:07:43 PM
 #16332

>>> Yes. See Jack Liu and Truthcoin if you want the truth, dammit.
Who is that Jack and where to look Huh
Please, point me there !

https://www.youtube.com/user/artpodgotovka/videos
Shocked ни в коем случае не смотрите это  !!! Shocked
cypherdoc
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November 09, 2014, 04:09:15 PM
 #16333

>>> Yes. See Jack Liu and Truthcoin if you want the truth, dammit.
Who is that Jack and where to look Huh
Please, point me there !

Well, here we go already. The concept of paper bitcoin is ramping up already;

http://jackcliu.com/post/102166140017/bitcoin-backed-corporate-currencies-are-coming
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November 09, 2014, 04:30:54 PM
 #16334

Oh, nice ! thanks, Cypher Smiley

https://www.youtube.com/user/artpodgotovka/videos
Shocked ни в коем случае не смотрите это  !!! Shocked
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November 09, 2014, 04:42:21 PM
 #16335

The result is that the sidecoin usage can reach some level due to added functionality, but the lower liquidity, which should normally give it a lower value, will, with the pegging presumption, give it a lower usage. Some sidecoins will exist because they are practical, but they will not take off.



that's not necessarily true.  all the SC has to do is establish its own liquidity thru on SC trading.  looky here, we have our first willing participant who will trade their scBTC for TC (Truthcoin!):

not only are all sorts of altcoin Sidescams going to bolt themselves onto the Bitcoin MC as shown by Truthcoin but as odalv has shown even Silk Road 4.0. How do you explain that to the Feds?  

Why do you think Truthcoin is a scam? I would love to see a decentralized prediction market.

and once the SC has users, more & more miners will follow to mine not only tx fees from scBTC & TC, but to harvest TC block rewards.
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November 09, 2014, 04:56:43 PM
 #16336


You seem to fundamentally miss the meaning of 'paper' in your critical comment.

As I've always argued, Bitcoin and gold are close cousins.  If a 'rewards program' offered me 'points' in the form of flecks of gold that I could keep physically in my pocket, that would be the equivalent of a properly implemented Bitcoin-backed corporate currency.

Bitcoin makes such a thing technically possible.  Of course many entities will try to pull a fast one and pretend to offer the real deal with various mechanisms to 'paper over' the lie.  This will probably be somewhat effective in certain cases for a while, but I believe that the open legacy of distributed crypto-currencies will prevail and it will be a challenge to promulgate such games.

Anyway, I'm totally in favor of corporate (and government) Bitcoin-backed solutions, and will use them for a vast majority of my transactions if possible.  The privacy feature that I'll be giving away when I do so is simply not important to me in most of my activities; the absence of counter-party risk is much more important.  Further, any Bitcoin-backed solution is going to live or die on the global confidence in Bitcoin itself.  If Bitcoin is subverted that vanishes which provides incentive to maintain the credibility of Bitcoin.


Erdogan
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November 09, 2014, 04:58:41 PM
 #16337

Altcoin devs, corporations, gift card issuers, reward point schemes, banks, gvts are rummaging around their kitchens right now in glee  trying to find the biggest straw they can which they plan to jam through the 2wp and suck through  as hard as they can.

Truthcoin if you want the truth, dammit!




They are big in the imagination department currently, but we will see.

cypherdoc
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November 09, 2014, 05:15:01 PM
 #16338


You seem to fundamentally miss the meaning of 'paper' in your critical comment.

As I've always argued, Bitcoin and gold are close cousins.  If a 'rewards program' offered me 'points' in the form of flecks of gold that I could keep physically in my pocket, that would be the equivalent of a properly implemented Bitcoin-backed corporate currency.

Bitcoin makes such a thing technically possible.  Of course many entities will try to pull a fast one and pretend to offer the real deal with various mechanisms to 'paper over' the lie.  This will probably be somewhat effective in certain cases for a while, but I believe that the open legacy of distributed crypto-currencies will prevail and it will be a challenge to promulgate such games.

Anyway, I'm totally in favor of corporate (and government) Bitcoin-backed solutions, and will use them for a vast majority of my transactions if possible.  The privacy feature that I'll be giving away when I do so is simply not important to me in most of my activities; the absence of counter-party risk is much more important.  Further, any Bitcoin-backed solution is going to live or die on the global confidence in Bitcoin itself.  If Bitcoin is subverted that vanishes which provides incentive to maintain the credibility of Bitcoin.



and you don't understand money.

for BTC to increase in value, ppl have to use BTC.  not a derivative of BTC, like TC. scBTC as conceptualized by the geeks has a chance to do that if it can keep away speculators from doing BTC-->scBTC-->TC.  but who realistically thinks they can stop this train?  i don't.  i believe Odalv, there's going to be billions of these schemes, some legit, but most illegit just like we have with altcoins today.  SC's doesn't prevent this process as it was advertised; instead it enhances it as it can be advertised logarithmically now as "BitcoinTruthcoin: Sidechain-enabled!".  altcoin devs are going to bring the biggest straw they can to jam thru the 2wp to suck as much value as they can out of the Bitcoin mainchain MC.

this diagram says volumes.  TC is going to bolt itself onto Bitcoin and sell itself as Bitcoin:

tvbcof
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November 09, 2014, 05:36:45 PM
 #16339


and you don't understand money.

for BTC to increase in value, ppl have to use BTC.  not a derivative of BTC, like TC. scBTC as conceptualized by the geeks has a chance to do that if it can keep away speculators from doing BTC-->scBTC-->TC.  but who realistically thinks they can stop this train?  i don't.  i believe Odalv, there's going to be billions of these schemes, some legit, but most illegit just like we have with altcoins today.  SC's doesn't prevent this process as it was advertised; instead it enhances it as it can be advertised logarithmically now as "Bitcoin: Sidechain-enabled!".  altcoin devs are going to bring the biggest straw they can to jam thru the 2wp to suck as much value as they can out of the Bitcoin mainchain MC.

this diagram says volumes.  TC is going to bolt itself onto Bitcoin and sell itself as Bitcoin:

 - snip - image inserted apparently for spam reasons -

Your simplistic and poorly defined assertions do zero to further anyone's understanding of 'money'.  One of my favorite permutations of a quote is "What is not worth doing right is not worth doing at all."  Besides, you kinda suck at distributing wisdom about such things and one suspects that this is because you don't have a great pool of truth from which to draw.

If 'altcoin devs' wish to try to 'suck as much value as they can out of the Bitcoin mainchain MC', all I can say is 'Bring It!'


Erdogan
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November 09, 2014, 05:43:45 PM
 #16340

Truthcoin, sounds great, who doesn't want truth?


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