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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2030619 times)
cypherdoc
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November 17, 2014, 05:03:23 AM
 #17201

Bugs can't take entymologists to breakfast-Zingales

Economists are just as captured as regulators

http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2014/10/continuing_conv_23.html
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November 17, 2014, 07:10:40 AM
 #17202

TC is a pathetic example and an obvious scam that will attract so much suckers before it gets exposed.

TC in this statement is TruthCoin.

brg444 This guy has a much better take on what SC are than you.
He understand the mining incentives that make Bitcoin, the only scam he's pulling is capitalizing on the inflation effect offered by the idea of SC's, someone who gets mining like this and looks for a win win without addressing the effect the proposed protocol change will have on mining incentives is a businessman, he isn't the scanner you think he is. We'll see thousand of these   Wink

brg444 read the article you may learn something please address all criticism on the appropriate blog, feel free to invite my input over there if you like.

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-and-mining/


Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
brg444
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November 17, 2014, 07:19:46 AM
 #17203

TC is a pathetic example and an obvious scam that will attract so much suckers before it gets exposed.

TC in this statement is TruthCoin.

brg444 This guy has a much better take on what SC are than you.
He understand the mining incentives that make Bitcoin, the only scam he's pulling is capitalizing on the inflation effect offered by the idea of SC's, someone who gets mining like this and looks for a win win without addressing the effect the proposed protocol change will have on mining incentives is a businessman, he isn't the scanner you think he is. We'll see thousand of these   Wink

brg444 read the article you may learn something please address all criticism on the appropriate blog, feel free to invite my input over there if you like.

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-and-mining/

I have been waiting for your input on our discussion over here for awhile. Hopefully you will deliver, I'll be patient.

Thanks for the heads up though, looks interesting. I will frankly say I did not even bother looking into him or his website after having a glance at his "sales pitch"

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
lebing
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November 17, 2014, 07:36:41 AM
 #17204


Bro, do you even blockchain?
-E Voorhees
hdbuck
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November 17, 2014, 07:43:58 AM
 #17205

Bitcoin collapsing, SC up.
Odalv
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November 17, 2014, 07:57:25 AM
 #17206

Generally speaking, there are two different ways in which a miner can behave: they can operate in good faith or they can grief.

Griefer miners have to pay a real cost for their bad behaviour - they expend significant quantities of electricity and capex depreciation which they will never recover.

What if a Bitcoin miner decides to grief the Namecoin blockchain? Mine empty blocks, intentionally orphan valid parts of the chain, run difficulty up and then pull out, attempt double spends of Namecoins, etc.

Their electricity and capex is paid for by the Bitcoins they mine. Sure, they have to spend a little bit in bandwidth to run a Namecoin node, but that cost is insignificant compared to the cost of mining Bitcoin.

This is why merged mining doesn't provide the kind of security that people think it provides. The only security comes from the goodwill of the mining pool operators, without strong economic incentives that make good behaviour much more profitable than bad behaviour.

Just like proof of stake, and also just like central banks.

What about converting Namecoin to NameSC ? Same functionality as now -> you will only pay for service with BTC. Do you need NMC ?
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November 17, 2014, 08:26:10 AM
 #17207

TC is a pathetic example and an obvious scam that will attract so much suckers before it gets exposed.

TC in this statement is TruthCoin.

brg444 This guy has a much better take on what SC are than you.
He understand the mining incentives that make Bitcoin, the only scam he's pulling is capitalizing on the inflation effect offered by the idea of SC's, someone who gets mining like this and looks for a win win without addressing the effect the proposed protocol change will have on mining incentives is a businessman, he isn't the scanner you think he is. We'll see thousand of these   Wink

brg444 read the article you may learn something please address all criticism on the appropriate blog, feel free to invite my input over there if you like.

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-and-mining/



Well, turns out this guy is a pretty smart fellow. It would be nice to have HIS input on sidechains. Every articles on his blog so far are very interesting and full of insights.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 17, 2014, 09:50:01 AM
 #17208

Jim Rickards in an interview re: China debt, global depression (lower % growth than could be achieved - the Keynesian def) and timing of the next crisis

Anyways, speaking about a system reset, the last question was:

Do you think such scenarios make people more optimistic about crypto currencies like Bitcoins?

I see the rise of crypto-currencies as a sign of waning confidence in traditional currencies, such as the dollar. I expect the trend towards alternative currencies, such as Bitcoin, to grow as central banks continue to fail in their efforts to manipulate asset values.

http://internationalfinancemagazine.com/article/The-debt-problem-in-China-is-not-hype.html#sthash.XPW1qNhD.dpuf
cypherdoc
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November 17, 2014, 10:11:36 AM
 #17209

Jim Rickards in an interview re: China debt, global depression (lower % growth than could be achieved - the Keynesian def) and timing of the next crisis

Anyways, speaking about a system reset, the last question was:

Do you think such scenarios make people more optimistic about crypto currencies like Bitcoins?

I see the rise of crypto-currencies as a sign of waning confidence in traditional currencies, such as the dollar. I expect the trend towards alternative currencies, such as Bitcoin, to grow as central banks continue to fail in their efforts to manipulate asset values.

http://internationalfinancemagazine.com/article/The-debt-problem-in-China-is-not-hype.html#sthash.XPW1qNhD.dpuf

Nice find.

The back pedaling is  almost complete.
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November 17, 2014, 10:30:36 AM
 #17210

TC is a pathetic example and an obvious scam that will attract so much suckers before it gets exposed.

TC in this statement is TruthCoin.

brg444 This guy has a much better take on what SC are than you.
He understand the mining incentives that make Bitcoin, the only scam he's pulling is capitalizing on the inflation effect offered by the idea of SC's, someone who gets mining like this and looks for a win win without addressing the effect the proposed protocol change will have on mining incentives is a businessman, he isn't the scanner you think he is. We'll see thousand of these   Wink

brg444 read the article you may learn something please address all criticism on the appropriate blog, feel free to invite my input over there if you like.

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-and-mining/


burterins arguments against the paper:

https://www.reddit.com/user/vbuterin

cypherdoc
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November 17, 2014, 10:35:12 AM
 #17211

TC is a pathetic example and an obvious scam that will attract so much suckers before it gets exposed.

TC in this statement is TruthCoin.

brg444 This guy has a much better take on what SC are than you.
He understand the mining incentives that make Bitcoin, the only scam he's pulling is capitalizing on the inflation effect offered by the idea of SC's, someone who gets mining like this and looks for a win win without addressing the effect the proposed protocol change will have on mining incentives is a businessman, he isn't the scanner you think he is. We'll see thousand of these   Wink

brg444 read the article you may learn something please address all criticism on the appropriate blog, feel free to invite my input over there if you like.

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-and-mining/



Thanks for the reference. The relevant part which applies to our SC's discussion:

Individuals bought coins, or mining equipment, with a certain expectation. As more and more individuals do this, it becomes harder and harder for cryptocoin-competitors to compete with the network-effect of money unless they can change the rules.

Bolded part mine.
brg444
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November 17, 2014, 10:51:37 AM
 #17212

TC is a pathetic example and an obvious scam that will attract so much suckers before it gets exposed.

TC in this statement is TruthCoin.

brg444 This guy has a much better take on what SC are than you.
He understand the mining incentives that make Bitcoin, the only scam he's pulling is capitalizing on the inflation effect offered by the idea of SC's, someone who gets mining like this and looks for a win win without addressing the effect the proposed protocol change will have on mining incentives is a businessman, he isn't the scanner you think he is. We'll see thousand of these   Wink

brg444 read the article you may learn something please address all criticism on the appropriate blog, feel free to invite my input over there if you like.

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-and-mining/



Thanks for the reference. The relevant part which applies to our SC's discussion:

Individuals bought coins, or mining equipment, with a certain expectation. As more and more individuals do this, it becomes harder and harder for cryptocoin-competitors to compete with the network-effect of money unless they can change the rules.

Bolded part mine.

but sidechains are not competitors  Huh

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
justusranvier
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November 17, 2014, 10:56:09 AM
 #17213

but sidechains are not competitors  Huh
The same value can not be held simultaneously in the main chain and in a side chain.
brg444
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November 17, 2014, 11:09:09 AM
 #17214

but sidechains are not competitors  Huh
The same value can not be held simultaneously in the main chain and in a side chain.

But the value of the sidechain is derived from the mainchain and so the scarcity and ledger is respected.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
NewLiberty
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November 17, 2014, 01:54:42 PM
 #17215

but sidechains are not competitors  Huh
The same value can not be held simultaneously in the main chain and in a side chain.

But the value of the sidechain is derived from the mainchain and so the scarcity and ledger is respected.
The SC and MC compete for some things and cooperate on others.

The value of the sidechain is derived from the market price, which ought to include both its convertibility to main chain + the side chain's utility.
&
To the extent the main chain is locked in side chains, it can be expected to reduce the liquidity of the main chain, increasing its volatility, and also the incentive to 51% it.

Awareness of the positive and negative nuances will make for better investors.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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November 17, 2014, 01:59:44 PM
 #17216

TC is a pathetic example and an obvious scam that will attract so much suckers before it gets exposed.

TC in this statement is TruthCoin.

brg444 This guy has a much better take on what SC are than you.
He understand the mining incentives that make Bitcoin, the only scam he's pulling is capitalizing on the inflation effect offered by the idea of SC's, someone who gets mining like this and looks for a win win without addressing the effect the proposed protocol change will have on mining incentives is a businessman, he isn't the scanner you think he is. We'll see thousand of these   Wink

brg444 read the article you may learn something please address all criticism on the appropriate blog, feel free to invite my input over there if you like.

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-and-mining/



Thanks for the reference. The relevant part which applies to our SC's discussion:

Individuals bought coins, or mining equipment, with a certain expectation. As more and more individuals do this, it becomes harder and harder for cryptocoin-competitors to compete with the network-effect of money unless they can change the rules.

Bolded part mine.

but sidechains are not competitors  Huh

Because the SC's offer alternative assets, and there are only a fixed supply of BTC from which to attract, SC's will compete to attract those BTC.  Just likeTC  plans to do.
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November 17, 2014, 03:51:31 PM
 #17217

but sidechains are not competitors  Huh
The same value can not be held simultaneously in the main chain and in a side chain.

But the value of the sidechain is derived from the mainchain and so the scarcity and ledger is respected.
This is a dud answer that illustrates a lack of understanding. Value is subjective one only makes value judgments, one choose to where value is greatest. It's not just scarcity that makes Bitcoin valuable, we know this because equal Altcoins with the same features can have no value.

It's the network that is created by incentive structure that creates bitcoins value. SideChain change the incentive structure.

In your ignorance you agree but you don't prove that one can create economic energy from nothing you assume that to be true. The value that is Bitcoin isn't about to die (it's FUD to say SC "are the last hope"), it's dependent on it's existing incentive structure to grow, investment in infrastructure or wealth.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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November 17, 2014, 04:30:37 PM
 #17218

http://counterparty.io/news/counterparty-recreates-ethereums-smart-contract-platform-on-bitcoin/

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November 17, 2014, 05:26:28 PM
 #17219

Blockstream's motto: "Can't be evil" - cypher will have a field day with this Grin
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November 17, 2014, 05:35:59 PM
 #17220

whenever we get proposals to "fix Bitcoin" as we are currently getting with SC's, it's often helpful to step back to before the proposal to help reassess where we actually.  below is a talk by Daniel Krawiscz, whose views very much correspond to mine.  listen carefully and realize everything is just fine and there is nothing to panic about by making rash changes to the protocol.  other points that struck me in this talk are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKRH_zxpdjM

1.  OT appears to be a better federated system in that it doesn't require another currency and doesn't require an spvp change to the protocol which would "siphon off" BTC value from its blockchain.
2.  he, and Balaji Srinivasan here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOubCHLXT6A, both advocate "exiting the system" principles if you are dissatisfied with your current existing fiat system.  exiting the current system implies that there is another new and secure system to which you can flee which will protect you.  since this is high risk, this system would have to be a Self Contained Financial System that is secure, reliable, and firewalled off from outside intervention.  ideally, it would be a public good, not subject to improprieties or vested interests that might be motivated to "profit" off said system.  this system, as it currently and already stands, is Bitcoin.  its transactional units are inextricably linked to its blockchain for maximum impenetrable security.
3.  i think the reason you're hearing such common calls for the "blockchain" as distinct and removed from its "currency unit" is b/c the outside public intuitively realizes that if left as is, Bitcoin fundamentally disrupts the current fiat system.  they can conceptually "understand" a blockchain as new "tech" while rejecting the currency unit.  it also allows them to continue to "resist" buying a seat at the table by using cold hard cash or trading something of great value for BTC.  if you can subvert the system by changing the rules, ie the protocol, to break the inextricable link, then you can "attract" value out of the Bitcoin system and convert or transform that value into all manner of inflationary, speculative assets.  this is what the spvp or 2wp does.  we don't want that.

i view the spvp as a breach in that system, like a leaky valve or offramp thru which real value can be siphoned off and transformed into all manner of speculative assets.  this is a problem.  guys like brg444 have already shown their cards that Bitcoin "is broken" and if you just insert this "funnel" or 2wp (spvp) into the walls of what now is an impenetrable system, it will make it "better".  i think this is fundamentally wrong and is a major flaw in the Blockstream WP.  the mere insertion of this funnel will break Bitcoin's Sound Money principles as it allows an offramp into all manner of insecure, alternative ledger systems (fake blockchains).  if we can know ahead of time that it "might" be a problem, why insert it?  it's not enough to say, "let's just let them put it in and see what happens".  if they're wrong, and i am right, it will destroy the system as it erodes confidence that we indeed have a secure firewalled off Bitcoin not subject to for-profit opportunities and structural weakness.
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