Bitcoin Forum
November 24, 2017, 01:05:18 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

Pages: « 1 ... 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 [825] 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 ... 1558 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2013408 times)
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
November 11, 2014, 04:27:55 AM
 #16481

Now explain to me, you genius, how is that any different than a regular sucker being fooled into buying dogecoin in the most convential way.

that's the pt idiot.  by allowing these altcoins to bolt themselves onto the MC, they will conduct over the top advertising which will attract BTC speculators to transfer into the altcoin via scBTC.  just like IRL keystroke would with TC.  sorry son, this is reality.  get an imagination dumbass.

this is exactly the problem you create with SC's.
1511485518
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511485518

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511485518
Reply with quote  #2

1511485518
Report to moderator
1511485518
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511485518

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511485518
Reply with quote  #2

1511485518
Report to moderator
1511485518
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511485518

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511485518
Reply with quote  #2

1511485518
Report to moderator
"In a nutshell, the network works like a distributed timestamp server, stamping the first transaction to spend a coin. It takes advantage of the nature of information being easy to spread but hard to stifle." -- Satoshi
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1511485518
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511485518

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511485518
Reply with quote  #2

1511485518
Report to moderator
1511485518
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511485518

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511485518
Reply with quote  #2

1511485518
Report to moderator
1511485518
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511485518

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511485518
Reply with quote  #2

1511485518
Report to moderator
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
November 11, 2014, 04:32:26 AM
 #16482

let's backup a step brg444.

you said SC's would destroy altcoins.  show me how when they can bolt onto the MC as a SC.
brg444
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


View Profile
November 11, 2014, 04:34:54 AM
 #16483

Now explain to me, you genius, how is that any different than a regular sucker being fooled into buying dogecoin in the most convential way.

that's the pt idiot.  by allowing these altcoins to bolt themselves onto the MC, they will conduct over the top advertising which will attract BTC speculators to transfer into the altcoin via scBTC.  just like IRL keystroke would with TC.  sorry son, this is reality.  get an imagination dumbass.

this is exactly the problem you create with SC's.

THEY DON'T USE scBTC you retard.

Speculators don't care about the 2wp 1:1 peg, they want to expose themselves to the altcoin exchange rate!

It makes no sense and creates no incentive for them go BTC -> scBTC -> Doge when they can simply go BTC -> Doge already.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
November 11, 2014, 04:38:23 AM
 #16484

Now explain to me, you genius, how is that any different than a regular sucker being fooled into buying dogecoin in the most convential way.

that's the pt idiot.  by allowing these altcoins to bolt themselves onto the MC, they will conduct over the top advertising which will attract BTC speculators to transfer into the altcoin via scBTC.  just like IRL keystroke would with TC.  sorry son, this is reality.  get an imagination dumbass.

this is exactly the problem you create with SC's.

THEY DON'T USE scBTC you retard.

Speculators don't care about the 2wp 1:1 peg, they want to expose themselves to the altcoin exchange rate!

It makes no sense and creates no incentive for them go BTC -> scBTC -> Doge when they can simply go BTC -> Doge already.

then they'd have to go thru a centralized exchange idiot.  maybe they don't want to do that and they'd prefer to use a decentralized exchange process like the SC which is costless and potentially more anonymous. 
brg444
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


View Profile
November 11, 2014, 04:39:16 AM
 #16485

let's backup a step brg444.

you said SC's would destroy altcoins.  show me how when they can bolt onto the MC as a SC.

Because a sidechain can claim their feature and utility without having to deal with their shitty native coin. Consequently, any scamcoin creator have no more argument to attract speculators to their shitty coin because of "growth potential" offered by their new innovative feature/algo

It doesn't get more simple than that.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
November 11, 2014, 04:44:22 AM
 #16486

let's backup a step brg444.

you said SC's would destroy altcoins.  show me how when they can bolt onto the MC as a SC.

Because a sidechain can claim their feature and utility without having to deal with their shitty native coin. Consequently, any scamcoin creator have no more argument to attract speculators to their shitty coin because of "growth potential" offered by their new innovative feature/algo

It doesn't get more simple than that.

you didn't even read my original post above about this.

what Bitcoin dev is going to waste their valuable time devving a Dogecoin utility chain?  how do you even do that anyway w/o the Dogecoin itself?  the feature of Dogecoin is the coin, idiot!  that's the pt, Dogecoiners like the inflationary nature of the coin itself.  that is why they're in it in the first place.  how do you build that into a utility chain?  even if you could, what Bitcoiner is going to use it, and for what utility are you talking about?  inflation?  if no Bitcoiners use it, then it can't be MM'd either.  
brg444
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


View Profile
November 11, 2014, 04:44:35 AM
 #16487

then they'd have to go thru a centralized exchange idiot.  maybe they don't want to do that and they'd prefer to use a decentralized exchange process like the SC which is costless and potentially more anonymous. 

No they don't. They can do BTC to DOGEcoin sidechain. No use going through a different unit that is pegged 1:1.

But let me get this right...

So the only thing stopping altcoins from taking off is decentralized exchanges? You have got to be kidding me.. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

1. It is not costless.
2. It is no more anonymous than btc-e.

Worse, if you get stuck on that stupid DOGEcoin sidechain when it tanks. It'll take you two days to break out the door.



"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
November 11, 2014, 04:47:11 AM
 #16488

then they'd have to go thru a centralized exchange idiot.  maybe they don't want to do that and they'd prefer to use a decentralized exchange process like the SC which is costless and potentially more anonymous. 

No they don't. They can do BTC to DOGEcoin sidechain. No use going through a different unit that is pegged 1:1.

But let me get this right...

So the only thing stopping altcoins from taking off is decentralized exchanges? You have got to be kidding me.. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

1. It is not costless.
2. It is no more anonymous than btc-e.

Worse, if you get stuck on that stupid DOGEcoin sidechain when it tanks. It'll take you two days to break out the door.




the Dogecoin SC can be designed to carry scBTC as well.  that was my original condition.
brg444
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


View Profile
November 11, 2014, 04:51:05 AM
 #16489

you didn't even read my original post above about this.

what Bitcoin dev is going to waste their valuable time devving a Dogecoin utility chain?  how do you even do that anyway w/o the Dogecoin itself?  the feature of Dogecoin is the coin, idiot!  that's the pt, Dogecoiners like the inflationary nature of the coin itself.  how do you build that into a utility chain?  even if you could, what Bitcoiner is going to use it, and for what utility are you talking about?  inflation?  if no Bitcoiners use it, then it can't be MM'd either. 

Well captain obvious OF COURSE they won't. Why? Well maybe because dogecoin is a stupid idea to begin with. One that will die in due time.

"What Bitcoiner is going to use it"  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Are you out of your mind? THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG.

Yes it is possible to create a dogecoin chain. NO! it creates no utility at all. Just a shitty coin bootstrapped on top of a sidechain.

So you went from saying no one would use it, to suggesting it would attach itself to the MC and siphon BTC  Huh Huh

You are right. Sidechains will not kill Dogecoin. It will exist as long as there are people stupid enough to participate in that coin. What sidechains will do is make irrelevant any coin that advertises itself with "utility" features (fast tx, different algo, anonymity)

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
November 11, 2014, 04:57:09 AM
 #16490

you didn't even read my original post above about this.

what Bitcoin dev is going to waste their valuable time devving a Dogecoin utility chain?  how do you even do that anyway w/o the Dogecoin itself?  the feature of Dogecoin is the coin, idiot!  that's the pt, Dogecoiners like the inflationary nature of the coin itself.  how do you build that into a utility chain?  even if you could, what Bitcoiner is going to use it, and for what utility are you talking about?  inflation?  if no Bitcoiners use it, then it can't be MM'd either. 

Well captain obvious OF COURSE they won't. Why? Well maybe because dogecoin is a stupid idea to begin with. One that will die in due time.

here's the problem.  it's stupid to you but not to every Dogecoin holder out there.  and SC's do nothing to make it die either.  that's my pt.
Quote

"What Bitcoiner is going to use it"  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Are you out of your mind? THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG.

Yes it is possible to create a dogecoin chain. NO! it creates no utility at all. Just a shitty coin bootstrapped on top of a sidechain.

but you tried to use that stupid idea of your "Dogecoin" utility chain killing Dogecoin itself.  see why it won't work now?  Bitcoin devs won't dev it, users won't support it, so your idea doesn't work.  get it?
Quote

So you went from saying no one would use it, to suggesting it would attach itself to the MC and siphon BTC  Huh Huh

You are right. Sidechains will not kill Dogecoin. It will exist as long as there are people stupid enough to participate in that coin. What sidechains will do is make irrelevant any coin that advertises itself with "utility" features (fast tx, different algo, anonymity)

yes, that's exactly what i'm saying.  Dogecoin will bolt itself to MC as a SC b/c it has nothing to lose and everything to gain by siphoning off whatever BTC it can get whether you think its logical or not.
brg444
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


View Profile
November 11, 2014, 05:00:17 AM
 #16491

the Dogecoin SC can be designed to carry scBTC as well.  that was my original condition.

So what!? Both are not fungible.

There are two type of market participants :

1. Those that want to preserve the value of their investement. All they will care about is sidechains that enable 1:1 peg. Of course that is not the only condition for them to want to lock their BTC to such a chain. It needs to provide a certain utility/feature. There is no point locking your coin to a 1:1 peg of DOGEchain, that I'm sure you can agree.

2. The speculators. They want to be exposed to market fluctuation other than BTC's. These people do not care about 1:1 peg. It completely goes against what they're looking for. For this reason, these people are gonna jump straight to any altcoin.

Considering this, it makes no sense to create a SC with both a 1:1 peg & an altcoin.

Either you are an utility chain or a speculative one.

Speculative ones are altcoins and NO they will not succeed selling themselves with the 2wp because in their case, all it is in reality is a decentralized exchange. A feature that can be considerably more risky than a regular centralized exchange if the user wants to cash out during a crash.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
brg444
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


View Profile
November 11, 2014, 05:06:13 AM
 #16492

yes, that's exactly what i'm saying.  Dogecoin will bolt itself to MC as a SC b/c it has nothing to lose and everything to gain by siphoning off whatever BTC it can get whether you think its logical or not.

So your scenario essentially depends on dogecoin being a successful coin in the future. If you truly believe that then yes we will stop arguing about it right now.

I believe Bitcoin's network effect will crush it in short time, no matter if it attaches itself to a SC or not.

If your point is that Dogecoin will not be killed by sidechains then I agree. It is not a likely candidate.

But the reality is, most altcoins are NOT Dogecoin. Dogecoin is very unique in the sense that it has marketed itself stricly as a meme and built a community around this.

On the other hand, most other altcoins market themselves with utility/features/different algos. These are the ones that will be made irrelevant by sidechains.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
November 11, 2014, 05:10:36 AM
 #16493

the Dogecoin SC can be designed to carry scBTC as well.  that was my original condition.

So fucking what!? Both are not fungible.

There are two type of market participants :

1. Those that want to preserve the value of their investement. All they will care about is sidechains that enable 1:1 peg. Of course that is not the only condition for them to want to lock their BTC to such a chain. It needs to provide a certain utility/feature. There is no point locking your coin to a 1:1 peg of DOGEchain, that I'm sure you can agree.

2. The speculators. They want to be exposed to market fluctuation other than BTC's. These people do not care about 1:1 peg. It completely goes against what they're looking for. For this reason, these people are gonna jump straight to any altcoin.

Considering this, it makes no fucking sense to create a SC with both a 1:1 peg & an altcoin.

Either you are an utility chain or a speculative one.

Speculative ones are altcoins and NO they will not succeed selling themselves with the 2wp because in their case, all it is in reality is a decentralized exchange. A feature that can be considerably more risky than a regular centralized exchange if the user wants to cash out during a crash.

calm down and listen.

a BTC speculator is convinced by over the top Dogecoin advertising (similar to TC) that he wants exposure to Dogecoin price volatility speculation.  he doesn't want to use a centralized exchange.  he decides to transfer into the Dogecoin SC via an available 1:1 peg that gives him scBTC in a holding position on the Dogecoin SC.  he waits until the appropriate time to convert scBTC-->Dogecoin at his strike price.  now he has a position.  simple as that.  there will be plenty of ppl who might want to do this just like keystroke wants to do with TC.  you can't say it won't happen or that it is even a dumb move.  it's all a matter of opinion.

my pt is that SC's have done nothing to kill off Dogecoin and may have in fact strengthened it by facilitating the above process via the 2wp.
Adrian-x
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372



View Profile
November 11, 2014, 05:14:49 AM
 #16494

, most other altcoins market themselves with utility/features/different algos. These are the ones that will be made irrelevant by sidechains.

So you think competition in the cryptocoin space being made irrelevant helps free market driven innovation how again?

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
November 11, 2014, 05:19:08 AM
 #16495


On the other hand, most other altcoins market themselves with utility/features/different algos. These are the ones that will be made irrelevant by sidechains.

but as we agreed very early on, anonymity and fast tx are about the only 2 features worthy of a utility chain that BTC holders will use and miners will MM and thus have a chance to kill off their progenitor altcoins.

but of the 538 altcoins out there, only a few have these features.  all the rest you can't build utility chains for them to kill them off as BTC holders won't use them either b/c they're inflationary or demurrage or some weird monetary property.  all of these altcoins WILL bolt themselves onto the MC b/c the flow of coin is essentially one way and can only benefit the altcoin:  BTC--->altcoin  thru misleading, over the top advertising, whatever.  whether you like it or not, speculators will speculate and the altcoins are gonna bolt on.
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1610



View Profile
November 11, 2014, 05:19:39 AM
 #16496

you didn't even read my original post above about this.

what Bitcoin dev is going to waste their valuable time devving a Dogecoin utility chain?  how do you even do that anyway w/o the Dogecoin itself?  the feature of Dogecoin is the coin, idiot!  that's the pt, Dogecoiners like the inflationary nature of the coin itself.  how do you build that into a utility chain?  even if you could, what Bitcoiner is going to use it, and for what utility are you talking about?  inflation?  if no Bitcoiners use it, then it can't be MM'd either.  

Well captain obvious OF COURSE they won't. Why? Well maybe because dogecoin is a stupid idea to begin with. One that will die in due time.

"What Bitcoiner is going to use it"  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Are you out of your mind? THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG.

Yes it is possible to create a dogecoin chain. NO! it creates no utility at all. Just a shitty coin bootstrapped on top of a sidechain.

So you went from saying no one would use it, to suggesting it would attach itself to the MC and siphon BTC  Huh Huh

You are right. Sidechains will not kill Dogecoin. It will exist as long as there are people stupid enough to participate in that coin. What sidechains will do is make irrelevant any coin that advertises itself with "utility" features (fast tx, different algo, anonymity)

Dude 100% of the top 7 coins after btc either have no features or are projects that reject btc-style pow mining entirely. Side chains are irrelevant to them. By market cap that is probably 99% of alts and 99.99% of crypto.

Stop wasting your time talking about alts. Btc devs too
brg444
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


View Profile
November 11, 2014, 05:20:40 AM
 #16497

, most other altcoins market themselves with utility/features/different algos. These are the ones that will be made irrelevant by sidechains.

So you think competition in the cryptocoin space being made irrelevant helps free market driven innovation how again?


 Huh

Maybe because innovators will not be distracted by having bother bootstrapping a currency on top of their innovation and will actually focus on the innovation while leveraging the BTC currency.

Did you not think of that? Do you not see how it rids us of crypto-scammer that care more about getting rich with their crypto than actually driving innovation and developing better technology?

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
November 11, 2014, 05:31:39 AM
 #16498

, most other altcoins market themselves with utility/features/different algos. These are the ones that will be made irrelevant by sidechains.

So you think competition in the cryptocoin space being made irrelevant helps free market driven innovation how again?


 Huh

Maybe because innovators will not be distracted by having bother bootstrapping a currency on top of their innovation and will actually focus on the innovation while leveraging the BTC currency.

Did you not think of that? Do you not see how it rids us of crypto-scammer that care more about getting rich with their crypto than actually driving innovation and developing better technology?

but devs wanna make money just like everyone else.  the altcoin is what monetizes their innovation. they don't get paid anything, per se, innovating on Bitcoin.
brg444
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


View Profile
November 11, 2014, 05:42:28 AM
 #16499

, most other altcoins market themselves with utility/features/different algos. These are the ones that will be made irrelevant by sidechains.

So you think competition in the cryptocoin space being made irrelevant helps free market driven innovation how again?


 Huh

Maybe because innovators will not be distracted by having bother bootstrapping a currency on top of their innovation and will actually focus on the innovation while leveraging the BTC currency.

Did you not think of that? Do you not see how it rids us of crypto-scammer that care more about getting rich with their crypto than actually driving innovation and developing better technology?

but devs wanna make money just like everyone else.  the altcoin is what monetizes their innovation. they don't get paid anything, per se, innovating on Bitcoin.

So why exactly are you surprised then that devs were willing to join Blockstream? Isn't that exactly the point? Fund innovation

I'm sorry but "monetizing" an innovation by creating a scammy coin on top of it is the least ethical way to go about it. I hope you will agree with that. This is Andrew's main argument in his paper against altcoin :

Quote
The Bitcoin community differs in both those respects. Your crankery is not cute. You are not a cryptographer, and yet are releasing a homebrew cryptosystem, misrepresenting your own qualifications, and encouraging others to store value in your creation. These actions are incompetent, dishonest and reprehensibly dangerous. If somehow you are doing this through honest cluelessness, I dream that you’ll read this article and realize the error of your ways.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
brg444
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


View Profile
November 11, 2014, 05:44:33 AM
 #16500

Dude 100% of the top 7 coins after btc either have no features or are projects that reject btc-style pow mining entirely. Side chains are irrelevant to them. By market cap that is probably 99% of alts and 99.99% of crypto.

Stop wasting your time talking about alts. Btc devs too

whatever, I was never the one to claim that sidechains were created to kill alts, cypherdoc made this insinuation, going so far as to say that because they effectively don't (kill alts) then they have no reason to exist.

this is where I disagree.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
Pages: « 1 ... 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 [825] 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 ... 1558 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!