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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1806986 times)
Void_80
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November 09, 2014, 04:07:43 PM
 #16361

>>> Yes. See Jack Liu and Truthcoin if you want the truth, dammit.
Who is that Jack and where to look Huh
Please, point me there !

https://www.youtube.com/user/artpodgotovka/videos
Shocked ни в коем случае не смотрите это  !!! Shocked
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November 09, 2014, 04:09:15 PM
 #16362

>>> Yes. See Jack Liu and Truthcoin if you want the truth, dammit.
Who is that Jack and where to look Huh
Please, point me there !

Well, here we go already. The concept of paper bitcoin is ramping up already;

http://jackcliu.com/post/102166140017/bitcoin-backed-corporate-currencies-are-coming
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November 09, 2014, 04:30:54 PM
 #16363

Oh, nice ! thanks, Cypher Smiley

https://www.youtube.com/user/artpodgotovka/videos
Shocked ни в коем случае не смотрите это  !!! Shocked
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November 09, 2014, 04:42:21 PM
 #16364

The result is that the sidecoin usage can reach some level due to added functionality, but the lower liquidity, which should normally give it a lower value, will, with the pegging presumption, give it a lower usage. Some sidecoins will exist because they are practical, but they will not take off.



that's not necessarily true.  all the SC has to do is establish its own liquidity thru on SC trading.  looky here, we have our first willing participant who will trade their scBTC for TC (Truthcoin!):

not only are all sorts of altcoin Sidescams going to bolt themselves onto the Bitcoin MC as shown by Truthcoin but as odalv has shown even Silk Road 4.0. How do you explain that to the Feds?  

Why do you think Truthcoin is a scam? I would love to see a decentralized prediction market.

and once the SC has users, more & more miners will follow to mine not only tx fees from scBTC & TC, but to harvest TC block rewards.
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November 09, 2014, 04:56:43 PM
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You seem to fundamentally miss the meaning of 'paper' in your critical comment.

As I've always argued, Bitcoin and gold are close cousins.  If a 'rewards program' offered me 'points' in the form of flecks of gold that I could keep physically in my pocket, that would be the equivalent of a properly implemented Bitcoin-backed corporate currency.

Bitcoin makes such a thing technically possible.  Of course many entities will try to pull a fast one and pretend to offer the real deal with various mechanisms to 'paper over' the lie.  This will probably be somewhat effective in certain cases for a while, but I believe that the open legacy of distributed crypto-currencies will prevail and it will be a challenge to promulgate such games.

Anyway, I'm totally in favor of corporate (and government) Bitcoin-backed solutions, and will use them for a vast majority of my transactions if possible.  The privacy feature that I'll be giving away when I do so is simply not important to me in most of my activities; the absence of counter-party risk is much more important.  Further, any Bitcoin-backed solution is going to live or die on the global confidence in Bitcoin itself.  If Bitcoin is subverted that vanishes which provides incentive to maintain the credibility of Bitcoin.


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November 09, 2014, 04:58:41 PM
 #16366

Altcoin devs, corporations, gift card issuers, reward point schemes, banks, gvts are rummaging around their kitchens right now in glee  trying to find the biggest straw they can which they plan to jam through the 2wp and suck through  as hard as they can.

Truthcoin if you want the truth, dammit!




They are big in the imagination department currently, but we will see.
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November 09, 2014, 05:15:01 PM
 #16367


You seem to fundamentally miss the meaning of 'paper' in your critical comment.

As I've always argued, Bitcoin and gold are close cousins.  If a 'rewards program' offered me 'points' in the form of flecks of gold that I could keep physically in my pocket, that would be the equivalent of a properly implemented Bitcoin-backed corporate currency.

Bitcoin makes such a thing technically possible.  Of course many entities will try to pull a fast one and pretend to offer the real deal with various mechanisms to 'paper over' the lie.  This will probably be somewhat effective in certain cases for a while, but I believe that the open legacy of distributed crypto-currencies will prevail and it will be a challenge to promulgate such games.

Anyway, I'm totally in favor of corporate (and government) Bitcoin-backed solutions, and will use them for a vast majority of my transactions if possible.  The privacy feature that I'll be giving away when I do so is simply not important to me in most of my activities; the absence of counter-party risk is much more important.  Further, any Bitcoin-backed solution is going to live or die on the global confidence in Bitcoin itself.  If Bitcoin is subverted that vanishes which provides incentive to maintain the credibility of Bitcoin.



and you don't understand money.

for BTC to increase in value, ppl have to use BTC.  not a derivative of BTC, like TC. scBTC as conceptualized by the geeks has a chance to do that if it can keep away speculators from doing BTC-->scBTC-->TC.  but who realistically thinks they can stop this train?  i don't.  i believe Odalv, there's going to be billions of these schemes, some legit, but most illegit just like we have with altcoins today.  SC's doesn't prevent this process as it was advertised; instead it enhances it as it can be advertised logarithmically now as "BitcoinTruthcoin: Sidechain-enabled!".  altcoin devs are going to bring the biggest straw they can to jam thru the 2wp to suck as much value as they can out of the Bitcoin mainchain MC.

this diagram says volumes.  TC is going to bolt itself onto Bitcoin and sell itself as Bitcoin:

tvbcof
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November 09, 2014, 05:36:45 PM
 #16368


and you don't understand money.

for BTC to increase in value, ppl have to use BTC.  not a derivative of BTC, like TC. scBTC as conceptualized by the geeks has a chance to do that if it can keep away speculators from doing BTC-->scBTC-->TC.  but who realistically thinks they can stop this train?  i don't.  i believe Odalv, there's going to be billions of these schemes, some legit, but most illegit just like we have with altcoins today.  SC's doesn't prevent this process as it was advertised; instead it enhances it as it can be advertised logarithmically now as "Bitcoin: Sidechain-enabled!".  altcoin devs are going to bring the biggest straw they can to jam thru the 2wp to suck as much value as they can out of the Bitcoin mainchain MC.

this diagram says volumes.  TC is going to bolt itself onto Bitcoin and sell itself as Bitcoin:

 - snip - image inserted apparently for spam reasons -

Your simplistic and poorly defined assertions do zero to further anyone's understanding of 'money'.  One of my favorite permutations of a quote is "What is not worth doing right is not worth doing at all."  Besides, you kinda suck at distributing wisdom about such things and one suspects that this is because you don't have a great pool of truth from which to draw.

If 'altcoin devs' wish to try to 'suck as much value as they can out of the Bitcoin mainchain MC', all I can say is 'Bring It!'


Erdogan
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November 09, 2014, 05:43:45 PM
 #16369

Truthcoin, sounds great, who doesn't want truth?

cypherdoc
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November 09, 2014, 05:46:01 PM
 #16370


and you don't understand money.

for BTC to increase in value, ppl have to use BTC.  not a derivative of BTC, like TC. scBTC as conceptualized by the geeks has a chance to do that if it can keep away speculators from doing BTC-->scBTC-->TC.  but who realistically thinks they can stop this train?  i don't.  i believe Odalv, there's going to be billions of these schemes, some legit, but most illegit just like we have with altcoins today.  SC's doesn't prevent this process as it was advertised; instead it enhances it as it can be advertised logarithmically now as "Bitcoin: Sidechain-enabled!".  altcoin devs are going to bring the biggest straw they can to jam thru the 2wp to suck as much value as they can out of the Bitcoin mainchain MC.

this diagram says volumes.  TC is going to bolt itself onto Bitcoin and sell itself as Bitcoin:

 - snip - image inserted apparently for spam reasons -

bullshit



of course you fail to bring any actual arguments.  but might i remind everyone here of how badly the core devs have misunderstood altcoins.  why should we expect it to be different this time?:

Seen this yet?

https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/alts.pdf

Quote from: 'Andrew Poelstra'
Of course, “developing your own cryptosystem” is the purview of only cranks and researchers, so it was reasonably assumed that none of these “altcoins”, as they were called, could ever be plausibly presented for public use.
Boy, were we ever wrong on that one.
...
If you are, or are planning to, develop and release an “altcoin” to the public, this document reminds you that you are playing with fire. This sort of behavior was cute on sci.crypt, a community populated mainly by cryptographic experts where there was no risk that your charlatanism would be mistaken for anything legitimate, and where there was no ability to store value in your scheme anyway.
...
The Bitcoin community differs in both those respects. Your crankery is not cute. You are not a cryptographer, and yet are releasing a homebrew cryptosystem, misrepresenting your own qualifications, and encouraging others to store value in your creation. These actions are incompetent, dishonest and reprehensibly dangerous.

lol.

That's Andrew Poelstra's "A Treatise on Altcoins". He's even harsher than many of us in this thread! He's also listed as an author on the sidechains whitepaper.
brg444
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November 09, 2014, 05:48:11 PM
 #16371

Sidechains are Bitcoin's fiat.

Like Bitcoin improved on gold, sidechains improve on fiat.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
tvbcof
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November 09, 2014, 05:51:28 PM
 #16372

Truthcoin, sounds great, who doesn't want truth?

Lotsa folks don't.  As they say, "The truth will set you free", so basically anyone who does not want some other group to be 'set free'.

(I didn't realize that this was a biblical quote until just now.  Whatever the case, it's a good one.)


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November 09, 2014, 05:53:51 PM
 #16373

pedantic bullshit

I am disappointed how clueless you still are about sidechains value proposition.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 09, 2014, 05:57:16 PM
 #16374


You seem to fundamentally miss the meaning of 'paper' in your critical comment.

As I've always argued, Bitcoin and gold are close cousins.  If a 'rewards program' offered me 'points' in the form of flecks of gold that I could keep physically in my pocket, that would be the equivalent of a properly implemented Bitcoin-backed corporate currency.

Bitcoin makes such a thing technically possible.  Of course many entities will try to pull a fast one and pretend to offer the real deal with various mechanisms to 'paper over' the lie.  This will probably be somewhat effective in certain cases for a while, but I believe that the open legacy of distributed crypto-currencies will prevail and it will be a challenge to promulgate such games.

Anyway, I'm totally in favor of corporate (and government) Bitcoin-backed solutions, and will use them for a vast majority of my transactions if possible.  The privacy feature that I'll be giving away when I do so is simply not important to me in most of my activities; the absence of counter-party risk is much more important.  Further, any Bitcoin-backed solution is going to live or die on the global confidence in Bitcoin itself.  If Bitcoin is subverted that vanishes which provides incentive to maintain the credibility of Bitcoin.


You do realize those reward points are inflationary (the corporations change the value from time to time) and they never become more valuable, SC reward points won't be guaranteed to have a 1:1 peg.

Still I'd use them (when I cash out points into a liquid asset like cash I pay a 20% premium and 10 years ago it was at 10%

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
cypherdoc
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November 09, 2014, 05:57:45 PM
 #16375

pedantic bullshit

I am disappointed how clueless you still are about sidechains value proposition.

do you even realize how most of recent posts have degenerated to personal attacks?  it shows your desperation.

but i'm glad you showed up shadow.  while you were away, i just scored 40pts, on my way to 55.  you can't guard me.

oh, and btw, help me generate at least another 100,000 plus views for my platform.  you're doing a great job.
Erdogan
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November 09, 2014, 05:58:55 PM
 #16376

Truthcoin, sounds great, who doesn't want truth?

Lotsa folks don't.  As they say, "The truth will set you free", so basically anyone who does not want some other group to be 'set free'.

(I didn't realize that this was a biblical quote until just now.  Whatever the case, it's a good one.)


Maybe we should include those that don't want to be free themselves, because they are afraid of the responsibility. Conclusion: Truthcoin will fail.  Sad
tvbcof
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November 09, 2014, 06:01:41 PM
 #16377

Sidechains are Bitcoin's fiat.

Like Bitcoin improved on gold, sidechains improve on fiat.


That I disagree with.  Sidechains are a lot more like $20 gold pieces under a gold-backed national monetary regime.  These coins may be 'legal tender' (enforceable as payment for all debts under a legal framework) but they also have very solid utility absent the legal structures which characterize their status as 'fiat'.  They can be melted.

In this parallel, destroying Bitcoin's fungibility (through, say, network infrastructure control and subsequent red-listing) is equivalent to figuring out the alchemy needed to turn lead into gold.


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November 09, 2014, 06:06:58 PM
 #16378

Truthcoin, sounds great, who doesn't want truth?

My only criticism of truth coin was that it thought NXT had a low network effect and it would stunt it's growth (I'd rather see the market do that) and some others small misrepresentations of peercoin, other than that I thought it was awesome - negating the macro economic effects on Bitcoin of course.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
brg444
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November 09, 2014, 06:08:13 PM
 #16379

Sidechains are Bitcoin's fiat.

Like Bitcoin improved on gold, sidechains improve on fiat.


That I disagree with.  Sidechains are a lot more like $20 gold pieces under a gold-backed national monetary regime.  These coins may be 'legal tender' (enforceable as payment for all debts under a legal framework) but they also have very solid utility absent the legal structures which characterize their status as 'fiat'.  They can be melted.

In this parallel, destroying Bitcoin's fungibility (through, say, network infrastructure control and subsequent red-listing) is equivalent to figuring out the alchemy needed to turn lead into gold.

Maybe choice of words wasn't right but I was thinking of fiat in terms of paper currency as legal tender for gold.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
tvbcof
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November 09, 2014, 06:09:00 PM
 #16380

Truthcoin, sounds great, who doesn't want truth?

Lotsa folks don't.  As they say, "The truth will set you free", so basically anyone who does not want some other group to be 'set free'.

(I didn't realize that this was a biblical quote until just now.  Whatever the case, it's a good one.)


Maybe we should include those that don't want to be free themselves, because they are afraid of the responsibility. Conclusion: Truthcoin will fail.  Sad


My comment wasn't about 'truthcoin' which I neither know nor care about.  It was about 'truth'.  If 'truthcoin' is verifiable in implementation ('truth'), my gut sense is that it's probably at least a neutral thing and possibly a good one.  Obviously I would have a vastly better feel for it than 'gut sense' before I took an position (in either a monetary or propaganda sense.)


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