Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[miscreanity]

What you can't see will hurt you.

TF does an excellent job of highlighting what FOFOA, Sinclair, et al. have been saying for years.

The real assets are being snuck out the back while the rest of the world plays in a nominal shell game arena; it's like climbing a skyscraper staircase while the building is falling down.

Guess what the best option is?

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[tvbcof]

Sound money not being gold?

Gold has a lot of problems. Slow and heavy—vulnerable, expensive...

expensive? do you mean "not divisible enough"?

I mean, gold has a lot of overhead... Costs do go up with divisibility.

Very true.  I obtained some sub-1oz coins a while back for gifts, and more to (set up to) try my idea of using Bitcoin to 'ratchet in' a trade/transfer of bullion across geographic space.  The premium on these is detrimental.

I would take this opportunity to mention that there is an upside to the inconvenience of PM's.  I suggest that allinvain, among others, would still be sitting on his stash if it had been in 'inconvenient' form such as physical gold in his hand rather than a highly mobile form such as Bitcoin.  Same can be said for a lot of MF Global victims.  Spare me the education about how handy Bitcoin is since it would be preaching to the chior.  All I'm saying is that every tool has it's strengths and weaknesses.

---

Unrelatedly, I cannot help but make an observation based on one recent poster's icon thingy:

 

This seems to be what has happened to all of the people predicting the popping of the PM bubble over the last decade.  Will the trend continue?  We'll find out I suppose.

[cypherdoc]

I would take this opportunity to mention that there is an upside to the inconvenience of PM's.  I suggest that allinvain, among others, would still be sitting on his stash if it had been in 'inconvenient' form such as physical gold in his hand rather than a highly mobile form such as Bitcoin.  Same can be said for a lot of MF Global victims.  Spare me the education about how handy Bitcoin is since it would be preaching to the chior.  All I'm saying is that every tool has it's strengths and weaknesses.

ok, i'll avoid the "handy" argument but i will throw out the "dated" argument.

with wallet encryption and backups this point is moot.

[cypherdoc]

lets stay positive:

[tvbcof]

I would take this opportunity to mention that there is an upside to the inconvenience of PM's.  I suggest that allinvain, among others, would still be sitting on his stash if it had been in 'inconvenient' form such as physical gold in his hand rather than a highly mobile form such as Bitcoin.  Same can be said for a lot of MF Global victims.  Spare me the education about how handy Bitcoin is since it would be preaching to the chior.  All I'm saying is that every tool has it's strengths and weaknesses.

ok, i'll avoid the "handy" argument but i will throw out the "dated" argument.

with wallet encryption and backups this point is moot.

I personally consider the wallet encryption implementation to be of fairly limited usefulness in a fairly limited number of cases.  And 'backups' are, if anything, another attack vector for stealing BTC from a victim.  I don't thing that anyone really thinks of the wallet encryption which is part of the standard client to be a solution for anyone but the more primitive end-users.  Certainly not something which would be used by the likes of Bitcoinica.

I am pretty comfortable with the way I've secured my Bitcoin stash.  But it's as or more difficult to get at than my physical PM's.  Even a rubber hose would prove a cumbersome and time consuming way for an attacker to reach my nest egg...or at least the yolk of it.

[cypherdoc]

I personally consider the wallet encryption implementation to be of fairly limited usefulness in a fairly limited number of cases. 

why?

[MatthewLM]

So gold bugs' worst nightmare is bitcoin? 

[cypherdoc]

So gold bugs' worst nightmare is bitcoin?  

hey, you've actually said something useful!  

edit:  what's a gold bugs worst nightmare?  BITCOIN!

[tvbcof]

I personally consider the wallet encryption implementation to be of fairly limited usefulness in a fairly limited number of cases. 

why?

Among the reasons, it requires running the GUI unless I'm mistaken.  That's a non-starter for me.

[cypherdoc]

I personally consider the wallet encryption implementation to be of fairly limited usefulness in a fairly limited number of cases. 

why?

Among the reasons, it requires running the GUI unless I'm mistaken.  That's a non-starter for me.

huh?

the use case is that a user encrypts the wallet immediately after download BEFORE sending any coins to it.  once encrypted, its impossible to crack open even if stolen.

[cypherdoc]

oh baby, Goldman breaks $100!

[cypherdoc]

it's that time again:

Charge!!!!!!!!!

[the joint]

My forecast based upon my research in precious metals -- keep in mind I've only been learning about precious metals for about 3 months and I did not read through this thread:

1)  Gold short-term outlook = down
2)  Gold mid-term outlook = ?
3)  Gold long-term outlook = up

I do not believe the US dollar can sustain itself over time.  Gold will always remain useful for industrial purposes or for jewelry.  It will continue to be a status symbol whether or not it is used to back a currency.  Moreover, if and when the US dollar sees a significant decline in value, I would expect to see a positive correlation between gold and Bitcoin.  

I'm looking to buy a little bit of gold right around $1500, and then more if it hits $1400.

[cypherdoc]

My forecast based upon my research in precious metals -- keep in mind I've only been learning about precious metals for about 3 months and I did not read through this thread:

1)  Gold short-term outlook = down
2)  Gold mid-term outlook = ?
3)  Gold long-term outlook = up

I do not believe the US dollar can sustain itself over time.  Gold will always remain useful for industrial purposes or for jewelry.  It will continue to be a status symbol whether or not it is used to back a currency.  Moreover, if and when the US dollar sees a significant decline in value, I would expect to see a positive correlation between gold and Bitcoin.  

I'm looking to buy a little bit of gold right around $1500, and then more if it hits $1400.

3 mo 'eh?

you see there guys?  now you know you're in trouble.

[tvbcof]

I personally consider the wallet encryption implementation to be of fairly limited usefulness in a fairly limited number of cases. 

why?

Among the reasons, it requires running the GUI unless I'm mistaken.  That's a non-starter for me.

huh?

the use case is that a user encrypts the wallet immediately after download BEFORE sending any coins to it.  once encrypted, its impossible to crack open even if stolen.

'impossible', heh?  As far as I can tell, all one needs is a passphrase, and there are a number ways to obtain such a thing.  keyloggers, TEMPEST, spys, rubber hoses, etc.

By GUI, I meant bitcoin-QT or whatever.  I run bitcoind exclusively and usually on machines with not graphical environment.  But I could be wrong about the ability to use the built in wallet encryption via RPC.  Don't care; No interest in it anyway.  I have no interest in having a wallet active which controls more coin than I need for a given purpose, and I use more proven codebases on more secure machines to protect the keys (aka wallets) that I don't need at the moment.

[cypherdoc]

I personally consider the wallet encryption implementation to be of fairly limited usefulness in a fairly limited number of cases.

why?

Among the reasons, it requires running the GUI unless I'm mistaken.  That's a non-starter for me.

huh?

the use case is that a user encrypts the wallet immediately after download BEFORE sending any coins to it.  once encrypted, its impossible to crack open even if stolen.

'impossible', heh?  As far as I can tell, all one needs is a passphrase, and there are a number ways to obtain such a thing.  keyloggers, TEMPEST, spys, rubber hoses, etc.

By GUI, I meant bitcoin-QT or whatever.  I run bitcoind exclusively and usually on machines with not graphical environment.  But I could be wrong about the ability to use the built in wallet encryption via RPC.  Don't care; No interest in it anyway.  I have no interest in having a wallet active which controls more coin than I need for a given purpose, and I use more proven codebases on more secure machines to protect the keys (aka wallets) that I don't need at the moment.

you know what i'm talking about...if Allinvains wallet had been encrypted, as virtually all wallets are now, its highly unlikely you'd be using it as an example.

[the joint]

My forecast based upon my research in precious metals -- keep in mind I've only been learning about precious metals for about 3 months and I did not read through this thread:

1)  Gold short-term outlook = down
2)  Gold mid-term outlook = ?
3)  Gold long-term outlook = up

I do not believe the US dollar can sustain itself over time.  Gold will always remain useful for industrial purposes or for jewelry.  It will continue to be a status symbol whether or not it is used to back a currency.  Moreover, if and when the US dollar sees a significant decline in value, I would expect to see a positive correlation between gold and Bitcoin.  

I'm looking to buy a little bit of gold right around $1500, and then more if it hits $1400.

3 mo 'eh?

you see there guys?  now you know you're in trouble.

I'm truly not sure what to make of your response.  I'm genuinely trying to learn about the precious metals market, so if you could elaborate a bit upon what you mean, it'd be helpful

[cypherdoc]

as the USD shoots up to $80.70

[cypherdoc]

My forecast based upon my research in precious metals -- keep in mind I've only been learning about precious metals for about 3 months and I did not read through this thread:

1)  Gold short-term outlook = down
2)  Gold mid-term outlook = ?
3)  Gold long-term outlook = up

I do not believe the US dollar can sustain itself over time.  Gold will always remain useful for industrial purposes or for jewelry.  It will continue to be a status symbol whether or not it is used to back a currency.  Moreover, if and when the US dollar sees a significant decline in value, I would expect to see a positive correlation between gold and Bitcoin.  

I'm looking to buy a little bit of gold right around $1500, and then more if it hits $1400.

3 mo 'eh?

you see there guys?  now you know you're in trouble.

I'm truly not sure what to make of your response.  I'm genuinely trying to learn about the precious metals market, so if you could elaborate a bit upon what you mean, it'd be helpful

Son; read the thread.

[silverbox]

My forecast based upon my research in precious metals -- keep in mind I've only been learning about precious metals for about 3 months and I did not read through this thread:

1)  Gold short-term outlook = down
2)  Gold mid-term outlook = ?
3)  Gold long-term outlook = up

I do not believe the US dollar can sustain itself over time.  Gold will always remain useful for industrial purposes or for jewelry.  It will continue to be a status symbol whether or not it is used to back a currency.  Moreover, if and when the US dollar sees a significant decline in value, I would expect to see a positive correlation between gold and Bitcoin.  

I'm looking to buy a little bit of gold right around $1500, and then more if it hits $1400.

3 mo 'eh?

you see there guys?  now you know you're in trouble.

He probably doesn't own any..  Now if he buys in with say 10% of his IRA.. We have a problem houston