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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1977880 times)
oakpacific
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November 15, 2013, 10:48:35 AM
 #6461

I've slowly learned that almost every single thing I learned in school and university was wrong, or else in some way majorly corrupted. No fields are spared as far as I've seen, besides maybe the practical ones like engineering (there's a market test for wrongness in engineering). Economics of course, but math (pure math, like analysis) and physics and linguistics and logic have severe fundamental issues that have a strong and far-reaching corrupting effect. It's just government funding and the power structure of intellectuals that allows them to equivocate and win by flashiness and the illusion of rigor rather than actual rigor.

There is absolutely no substitute for learning to think for yourself.

Huh, it's not like mathematics, logic and physics are invented after the modern governments grabbing power, or after there is a public school system, at least not those you are expected to understand.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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November 15, 2013, 10:50:06 AM
 #6462

I've slowly learned that almost every single thing I learned in school and university was wrong, or else in some way majorly corrupted. No fields are spared as far as I've seen, besides maybe the practical ones like engineering (there's a market test for wrongness in engineering). Economics of course, but math (pure math, like analysis) and physics and linguistics and logic have severe fundamental issues that have a strong and far-reaching corrupting effect. It's just government funding and the power structure of intellectuals that allows them to equivocate and win by flashiness and the illusion of rigor rather than actual rigor.
I know what you mean. The difference sometimes lies in the teacher you have. I've had some great teachers who "get it" and can pass on how to their students, and some who poison students with seemingly valid falsehoods. Some people really get lost in the dogma. I just found out one of the banking law professors at my school (Sarah Jane Hughes) is serving on the Senate panel on Tuesday... I couldn't leave it to chance whether or not she "got it" and emailed her urgently about the scope her decision might make on the US and that I very much need to share my thoughts with her, as a fellow Hoosier. Let's see...

But I love neuroscience so much...I wouldn't know where else I could get my foot in the door in regards to that subject. And at least my professors make a point to tell us that the assumptions that neuroscience bases itself upon are still so preliminary it changes month to month upon new revelations. I love that. Now, as for my econ minor, I don't even know if I want to finish it simply because it's so inane and I see what it creates (see: Andrew Huszar: Confessions of a Quantitative Easer). That game theory course in a year makes me think it will be worth it though. Honestly, I just take academics with a grain of salt, and take what I can from it if it fits in to my paradigm.

But all I want to do upon graduation is to go out into isolation and read for awhile, reset a little bit, Walden style. I probably should after I finish this project I'm working on.

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November 15, 2013, 11:25:36 AM
 #6463

I've slowly learned that almost every single thing I learned in school and university was wrong, or else in some way majorly corrupted. No fields are spared as far as I've seen, besides maybe the practical ones like engineering (there's a market test for wrongness in engineering). Economics of course, but math (pure math, like analysis) and physics and linguistics and logic have severe fundamental issues that have a strong and far-reaching corrupting effect. It's just government funding and the power structure of intellectuals that allows them to equivocate and win by flashiness and the illusion of rigor rather than actual rigor.

There is absolutely no substitute for learning to think for yourself.

Huh, it's not like mathematics, logic and physics are invented after the modern governments grabbing power, or after there is a public school system, at least not those you are expected to understand.

Most of the real madness started about 100 years ago, but yeah actually it's not all due to government influence, some is due to human nature and status games. Government just makes it way worse.
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November 15, 2013, 11:29:05 AM
 #6464

I've slowly learned that almost every single thing I learned in school and university was wrong, or else in some way majorly corrupted. No fields are spared as far as I've seen, besides maybe the practical ones like engineering (there's a market test for wrongness in engineering). Economics of course, but math (pure math, like analysis) and physics and linguistics and logic have severe fundamental issues that have a strong and far-reaching corrupting effect. It's just government funding and the power structure of intellectuals that allows them to equivocate and win by flashiness and the illusion of rigor rather than actual rigor.

There is absolutely no substitute for learning to think for yourself.

Huh, it's not like mathematics, logic and physics are invented after the modern governments grabbing power, or after there is a public school system, at least not those you are expected to understand.

Most of the real madness started about 100 years ago, but yeah actually it's not all due to government influence, some is due to human nature and status games. Government just makes it way worse.

How was school before? How was school when it was ideal?

oakpacific
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November 15, 2013, 11:52:51 AM
 #6465

I've slowly learned that almost every single thing I learned in school and university was wrong, or else in some way majorly corrupted. No fields are spared as far as I've seen, besides maybe the practical ones like engineering (there's a market test for wrongness in engineering). Economics of course, but math (pure math, like analysis) and physics and linguistics and logic have severe fundamental issues that have a strong and far-reaching corrupting effect. It's just government funding and the power structure of intellectuals that allows them to equivocate and win by flashiness and the illusion of rigor rather than actual rigor.

There is absolutely no substitute for learning to think for yourself.

Huh, it's not like mathematics, logic and physics are invented after the modern governments grabbing power, or after there is a public school system, at least not those you are expected to understand.

Most of the real madness started about 100 years ago, but yeah actually it's not all due to government influence, some is due to human nature and status games. Government just makes it way worse.

How was school before? How was school when it was ideal?

Obviously at no time was it ideal, but aren't we talking about since when government starts to have a hand in school affairs?

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
oakpacific
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November 15, 2013, 11:59:14 AM
 #6466

I've slowly learned that almost every single thing I learned in school and university was wrong, or else in some way majorly corrupted. No fields are spared as far as I've seen, besides maybe the practical ones like engineering (there's a market test for wrongness in engineering). Economics of course, but math (pure math, like analysis) and physics and linguistics and logic have severe fundamental issues that have a strong and far-reaching corrupting effect. It's just government funding and the power structure of intellectuals that allows them to equivocate and win by flashiness and the illusion of rigor rather than actual rigor.

There is absolutely no substitute for learning to think for yourself.

Huh, it's not like mathematics, logic and physics are invented after the modern governments grabbing power, or after there is a public school system, at least not those you are expected to understand.

Most of the real madness started about 100 years ago, but yeah actually it's not all due to government influence, some is due to human nature and status games. Government just makes it way worse.

I don't know what to say, but I guess since you have such strong opinions about logic, math and science shouldn't make much sense to you as well.

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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November 15, 2013, 12:11:56 PM
 #6467

I've slowly learned that almost every single thing I learned in school and university was wrong, or else in some way majorly corrupted. No fields are spared as far as I've seen, besides maybe the practical ones like engineering (there's a market test for wrongness in engineering). Economics of course, but math (pure math, like analysis) and physics and linguistics and logic have severe fundamental issues that have a strong and far-reaching corrupting effect. It's just government funding and the power structure of intellectuals that allows them to equivocate and win by flashiness and the illusion of rigor rather than actual rigor.

There is absolutely no substitute for learning to think for yourself.

I've long held the opinion that the most important thing about todays system of schooling is not the content of the curriculum, but the structure of the whole activity in schools. Sort of like Marshall McLuhans "the Media is the Message" - it doesn't matter what is ON TV, what matters is that TV, as a medium influences thought and action in a certain way, regardless of what content is shown.

So what do our schools teach us? The first thing they teach you is that you are not the sovereign master of your time. They teach you that all your life, there will be predetermined periods of time, during which you have to be at a certain location, doing specific things. After that you will generously get some "free time".

Next thing you learn is that there is exactly one correct answer for everything and don't bother trying to come up with it yourself, we already have, so just memorize it.

And do NOT question authority. Mistakes are wrong, be afraid of mistakes, you will be punished for them.

All in all these places stifle creative thinking and personal development, reinforce conformity and submissiveness to authority. In other words they achieve their goal splendidly. What goal? George Carlin pointed it out years ago: the point of schools is to create obedient workers. Just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork and just dumb enough to passively accept all the rigged bullshit of this system.

When I abandoned university after a couple of years of study getting drunk and partying literally every single soul in my environment thought it was a horrible idea. Parents, teachers, peers. No degree, no good job, no security, blah blah. 6 years later I still think it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. Now I'm self-employed, in complete control of my time and travel the world. I often wonder how my former classmates are feeling now about their "secure" jobs and their "necessary" degrees.  Roll Eyes

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
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November 15, 2013, 01:24:58 PM
 #6468

Actually it's quite fun to watch. Even highly intelligent and knowledgeable gold bugs and Austrian economists are taking their time in understanding Bitcoin and are only slowly, one by one coming around. And that's the worthwhile minority of economists. The guys who swallowed all of that Keynesian stuff? I gather they'll be among the "laggards" which adopt BTC, together with my grandmother and my autistic nephew.
QFT

Quote
I've long held the opinion that the most important thing about todays system of schooling is not the content of the curriculum, but the structure of the whole activity in schools. Sort of like Marshall McLuhans "the Media is the Message" - it doesn't matter what is ON TV, what matters is that TV, as a medium influences thought and action in a certain way, regardless of what content is shown.

So what do our schools teach us? The first thing they teach you is that you are not the sovereign master of your time. They teach you that all your life, there will be predetermined periods of time, during which you have to be at a certain location, doing specific things. After that you will generously get some "free time".

Next thing you learn is that there is exactly one correct answer for everything and don't bother trying to come up with it yourself, we already have, so just memorize it.

And do NOT question authority. Mistakes are wrong, be afraid of mistakes, you will be punished for them.
QFT #2

Boy, the way you are capable of putting so much in so little space is great.

Not joking, hat off.

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November 15, 2013, 01:31:02 PM
 #6469

"Do not question authority" is the most harmful message.

It trains you to submit and never think outside the box. They'll encourage you to "think outside the box," but it's bastardized into an exercise in not being bound by logical consistency or definitional clarity. They never teach you to question assumptions or pin down definitions. Such things are outside the culture and antithetical to it. The only "outside the box" thinking allowed is absurdism, nothing actually productive.

Mathematics was what I thought was the last stand of true rigor and unquestionable correctness, but it's full of holes on the theoretical side, which weaken the applications side as well. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REeaT2mWj6Y
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November 15, 2013, 02:05:37 PM
 #6470

Boy, the way you are capable of putting so much in so little space is great.

Not joking, hat off.

Thank you very much! Feedback like this is much appreciated and gives me more hope to one day fulfill my dream of becoming a writer living off BTC donations  Grin

And since you put me on a tiny pedestal here, I might as well shout:

I did not learn to write like this in school, but IN SPITE of it.

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
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November 15, 2013, 02:24:11 PM
 #6471

Boy, the way you are capable of putting so much in so little space is great.

Not joking, hat off.

Thank you very much! Feedback like this is much appreciated and gives me more hope to one day fulfill my dream of becoming a writer living off BTC donations  Grin

And since you put me on a tiny pedestal here, I might as well shout:

I did not learn to write like this in school, but IN SPITE of it.

But you don't have a tipping address in your sig. Wink

I know you what you mean about "in spite of" school. I learned more about essay writing by participating in Usenet debates about Playstation vs. Nintendo 64 for a few weeks than I ever learned in school. And of course that was only the beginning. I knew a guy who always seemed kind of slow until he dropped out of school and spent all his time playing online games and posting on forums. One year later he was suddenly shining with intelligence, quick-minded, discerning, and could write. It was like a miracle. I'm convinced school was keeping him down.
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November 15, 2013, 03:34:55 PM
 #6472

But you don't have a tipping address in your sig. Wink

That's true. I used to have one there but then I said "why bother, nobody's sending anything anyway". The day I removed it, I got a small donation, haha.

I think we have derailed the thread enough, already Smiley

On-topic: I have put significantly more in terms of $$ into gold and silver, than into BTC, yet the size of the holdings is about the same now, measured in $. I don't plan on rebalancing any time soon. Maybe I'll buy some nice 1oz gold coin once it reaches parity.

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
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November 15, 2013, 03:52:45 PM
 #6473

The BIT is kicking ass, and bringing in millions each week:



Net assets under management already reached $21.8 million, which I guess means how much dollars they have taken in(?).
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November 15, 2013, 03:55:35 PM
 #6474

http://www.ecns.cn/cns-wire/2013/11-15/88703.shtml

Are Chinese damas giving up PM for Bitcoins? I am not sure how to make of it.

On another note, I would really like to see the U.S trying to greenlist them, dama doesn't give a damn! Grin

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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November 15, 2013, 03:56:15 PM
 #6475

This is the dilemma for 99% of financial guys out there.
Their "education" on economics is actually working as a stumbling block to their ability to grasp and accept Bitcoin.
They think they know everything, therefore something that doesn't fit the mold is automatically nonsense.

Good observation. I used to work in finance and noticed this, too. Whenever explaining anything from the area of economics, the last people to grasp the concept were people who studied economics - because they have had their heads filled with a lot of bullshit concepts during their edumakation, preventing them to see things for what they were, because there were just too many (mostly bogus) concepts getting in their way.

To be fair they were followed by people like lawyers and psychologists, who thought they understand and know everything and were mostly a pain in the ass to deal with.

I had the easiest time with people unsullied by "higher education" or people from computer science or engineering backgrounds.

Actually it's quite fun to watch. Even highly intelligent and knowledgeable gold bugs and Austrian economists are taking their time in understanding Bitcoin and are only slowly, one by one coming around. And that's the worthwhile minority of economists. The guys who swallowed all of that Keynesian stuff? I gather they'll be among the "laggards" which adopt BTC, together with my grandmother and my autistic nephew.

hahaha this is brilliant! +1

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November 15, 2013, 04:21:20 PM
 #6476

http://www.ecns.cn/cns-wire/2013/11-15/88703.shtml

Are Chinese damas giving up PM for Bitcoins? I am not sure how to make of it.

On another note, I would really like to see the U.S trying to greenlist them, dama doesn't give a damn! Grin

Given the infamy of Japanese Ms. Watanabe's, it seems no surprise as to the rise of Chinese Dama's.
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November 15, 2013, 04:22:49 PM
 #6477

This is the dilemma for 99% of financial guys out there.
Their "education" on economics is actually working as a stumbling block to their ability to grasp and accept Bitcoin.
They think they know everything, therefore something that doesn't fit the mold is automatically nonsense.

Good observation. I used to work in finance and noticed this, too. Whenever explaining anything from the area of economics, the last people to grasp the concept were people who studied economics - because they have had their heads filled with a lot of bullshit concepts during their edumakation, preventing them to see things for what they were, because there were just too many (mostly bogus) concepts getting in their way.

To be fair they were followed by people like lawyers and psychologists, who thought they understand and know everything and were mostly a pain in the ass to deal with.

I had the easiest time with people unsullied by "higher education" or people from computer science or engineering backgrounds.

Actually it's quite fun to watch. Even highly intelligent and knowledgeable gold bugs and Austrian economists are taking their time in understanding Bitcoin and are only slowly, one by one coming around. And that's the worthwhile minority of economists. The guys who swallowed all of that Keynesian stuff? I gather they'll be among the "laggards" which adopt BTC, together with my grandmother and my autistic nephew.

hahaha this is brilliant! +1

For two people to understand each other, one of them has to essentially start thinking like the other.  My experience is that certain people -- the sort who you know have a PHD because they tend to work that fact into the conversation every few weeks -- are unwilling to think in other ways.  They force you to cross the divide, start thinking like them and explain the concept using their terminology and framework.  

This is exactly Schiff's problem.  He cannot imagine that Gold's intrinsic value irrelevant to the price of gold and is actually a liability for commerce whereas Bitcoin both HAS an intrinsic value and it is advantageous for commerce.  Analyze a few of his shows from the context of cognitive framework and you'll rapidly lose all respect for his intelligence and predictions.  A person who can only see one cognitive framework will only be right IF the world follows his framework -- but the existence of other frameworks essentially disproves that possibility.

But people who do computer science have natural language, math, CS, and probably a half dozen different CS languages with semantic differences (procedural, functional, rule-based, document layout).  To a greater degree (still pretty small for many) their minds are flexible enough to think in multiple frameworks.

Frankly, this is why cypherdoc's comment "the nerds do not know that which they have created" pisses me off.  We know.  Its the economics professors and media talking heads who were endlessly reporting and blogging negatively about Bitcoin. Before 2013 99%+ dismissed Bitcoin.  But of that 1%, most were engineers.

But the "nerds" also know that, like daylight savings time the real world at times makes changes beyond the control of any system no matter how elegant.  "We" know that bitcoin is awesome but at the same time we know what we don't know and can't control.  So while I've been saying that bitcoin could become first global exchange currency I've been saying it quietly :-)

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November 15, 2013, 04:48:35 PM
 #6478


But people who do computer science have natural language, math, CS, and probably a half dozen different CS languages with semantic differences (procedural, functional, rule-based, document layout).  To a greater degree (still pretty small for many) their minds are flexible enough to think in multiple frameworks.

Frankly, this is why cypherdoc's comment "the nerds do not know that which they have created" pisses me off.  We know.  Its the economics professors and media talking heads who were endlessly reporting and blogging negatively about Bitcoin. Before 2013 99%+ dismissed Bitcoin.  But of that 1%, most were engineers.

But the "nerds" also know that, like daylight savings time the real world at times makes changes beyond the control of any system no matter how elegant.  "We" know that bitcoin is awesome but at the same time we know what we don't know and can't control.  So while I've been saying that bitcoin could become first global exchange currency I've been saying it quietly :-)



Yet how many of the nerds who found bitcoin in 2010 or 2011 sold off all their bitcoin holdings when they were up 10%, and completely missed benefiting from the big rises in price?

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November 15, 2013, 04:59:49 PM
 #6479


But people who do computer science have natural language, math, CS, and probably a half dozen different CS languages with semantic differences (procedural, functional, rule-based, document layout).  To a greater degree (still pretty small for many) their minds are flexible enough to think in multiple frameworks.

Frankly, this is why cypherdoc's comment "the nerds do not know that which they have created" pisses me off.  We know.  Its the economics professors and media talking heads who were endlessly reporting and blogging negatively about Bitcoin. Before 2013 99%+ dismissed Bitcoin.  But of that 1%, most were engineers.

But the "nerds" also know that, like daylight savings time the real world at times makes changes beyond the control of any system no matter how elegant.  "We" know that bitcoin is awesome but at the same time we know what we don't know and can't control.  So while I've been saying that bitcoin could become first global exchange currency I've been saying it quietly :-)



Yet how many of the nerds who found bitcoin in 2010 or 2011 sold off all their bitcoin holdings when they were up 10%, and completely missed benefiting from the big rises in price?

Selection bias.  Since the vast majority of early adopters were nerds, it is incredibly likely that those who sold would also be nerds... there will always be a few.  I never said ALL nerds understand what was created..
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November 15, 2013, 05:14:31 PM
 #6480


Frankly, this is why cypherdoc's comment "the nerds do not know that which they have created" pisses me off.  We know.  Its the economics professors and media talking heads who were endlessly reporting and blogging negatively about Bitcoin. Before 2013 99%+ dismissed Bitcoin.  But of that 1%, most were engineers.

But the "nerds" also know that, like daylight savings time the real world at times makes changes beyond the control of any system no matter how elegant.  "We" know that bitcoin is awesome but at the same time we know what we don't know and can't control.  So while I've been saying that bitcoin could become first global exchange currency I've been saying it quietly :-)



no wonder you don't do updates as frequently as i'd like you to  Wink  i enjoy prodding and poking ppl around these parts to get them to think and be challenged.  especially geeks.  in a major way, this is what this thread is all about.  challenging conventional thinking.

of course my meme "The Geeks Fail to Understand That Which They Hath Created" is just another one of those provocations.  and i think it's fair.  of course it's a broad brush statement which doesn't apply to all geeks but to appreciate the meme you had to have been around these parts the latter half of 2011 to understand just how bad the "geek" trolls became.  i could name off dozens of you around here who are engineers, moderators, programmers, mathematicians who trolled me heavily for being bullish.  but i won't so as not to embarrass them.  while you are correct to say these ppl have astounding skills at math, complex systems, different programming languages, and layouts, etc., what all of them lacked is imagination, investment experience, and an understanding of the speculative mind.  one of the most common themes behind their whining was "those evil speculators!".  "they are causing way too much volatility!" "guys like cypherdoc who 'just want to make money'".  "he's ruining it for everybody!"  "Evil Mr. Manipulator".  "When is the Whale going to Dump?".  "they are polluting our beautiful logical, math based system of new money!"  

of course, i argued vociferously with these idiots that speculators were key to launching all sorts of Bitcoin projects and bringing them to fruition.  speculators pump money into the economy in many different ways and help drive the price up which acts as a positive feedback signal to those hesitant to get in the game.  they take risk when others won't.  of course it creates volatility.  this is the nature of speculative markets when things aren't so clear.  as an early adopter or investor, you want to see volatility.  it allows buying on the dips.  if the underlying principles and fundamentals of the economy are correct, then you develop and create a virtuous circle which allows growth; which is exactly what has happened to Bitcoin.  most geeks could not wrap their minds around these concepts as they are not taught in school or within their profession.  these concepts are, on the contrary, NOT logical but in fact irrational and based on human emotion.  how many geeks do you know who read human emotion well?  this is where the immense confusion comes in regarding Bitcoin.

i don't care how logical or smart you are in math or CS. many of these "geeks" failed to understand these principles.  this comes with years of experience and trading in other markets like stocks, bonds or real estate.  watching stocks go from a penny to $1000 in a relentless year over year ramp related to nothing but money printing puts a nice frame around things.  experiencing an end of day short squeeze ramp due to a simple rumor that Warren Buffett is buying housing stocks in late 2008 imprints a most indelible picture of a manipulated market.  you have to live through those things.  you have to lose money doing it.  most geeks don't have that experience either due to their age, lack of funds, or fear of the unknown.

i will say that geeks were probably in the majority of those who understood Bitcoin from day 1 but it is a questionable assumption.  i am your perfect example.
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