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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1804133 times)
BitcoinAshley
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November 23, 2013, 05:47:06 PM
 #6761

It just occurs to me that divisibility is one of Bitcoin's great features as a investment, you can't normally buy fractional share on the stock market, or a fraction of an ounce of gold/silver, so when a bubble is forming small time investors have to avoid buying as they risk losing dearly in a market crash, but even when BTC price reaches $10000/BTC you can still buy 0.001 BTC and take advantage of the potential rally continuation, as the most you can lose is only $10, this would potentially make Bitcoin the first product to be investable, and investable rationally by everyone, even really deprived people.


Yes, the accessibility of Bitcoin is very important to its success. A few years ago I toyed with the idea of dividend-yielding investments and a few other things, but with the amount of money I was looking to invest (beans) the fees just wouldn't make it worth it. With bitcoin, it was much easier for me to start out investing teeny tiny amounts of money every week. Then, my tiny investment turned into gigantic amounts of money. Of course, later adopters won't see such a massive ROI, but they can still participate in its appreciation until it reaches a more stable adoption level, and after that, they can participate in sound money which is good for everyone. The barrier to entry is a powerful force as we see in socialist .gov-controlled markets i.e. here in the U.S.
The barrier to entry of bitcoin still involves at least a mobile device and internet, but it is much smaller than many markets currently in existence.
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin-Qt, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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November 23, 2013, 06:13:42 PM
 #6762

It just occurs to me that divisibility is one of Bitcoin's great features as a investment, you can't normally buy fractional share on the stock market, or a fraction of an ounce of gold/silver, so when a bubble is forming small time investors have to avoid buying as they risk losing dearly in a market crash, but even when BTC price reaches $10000/BTC you can still buy 0.001 BTC and take advantage of the potential rally continuation, as the most you can lose is only $10, this would potentially make Bitcoin the first product to be investable, and investable rationally by everyone, even really deprived people.

And vice versa.

Unlike a stock or bond , which is for the most part illiquid, you can hold bitcoin as an "investment" right up to the moment you want to spend it on something useful. Take the Gyft card as an example. Hold Btc, let it appreciate, then buy at the most efficient time with a small fraction of your holdings.

I've been doing this with my vpn service. Put 0.8 btc on my phone at the beginning of the year and declined to pay for a year's worth of service and opted instead for monthly service knowing the value of the btc was going to be going up. Whereas I had about $80 of purchasing power at the time, now I have about $640.

Only with bitcoin.
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November 23, 2013, 08:19:27 PM
 #6763

Wow... bitcoin is at it again.  Will we sit it hit 1,000 USD on USD based markets?  Or will someone dump hard right before it gets there?  There's much money to be made dumping, and then buying everything back at lower prices.  We'll have to wait and see.

bassclef
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November 23, 2013, 11:42:42 PM
 #6764

Wow... bitcoin is at it again.  Will we sit it hit 1,000 USD on USD based markets?  Or will someone dump hard right before it gets there?  There's much money to be made dumping, and then buying everything back at lower prices.  We'll have to wait and see.

Dumping is much riskier now. It used to happen quite a bit, sometimes accompanying a DDOS, with varying degrees of success. Now, it takes thousands of coins to move the market, and if you can't buy back lower (plus fees, slippage), then the manipulator is poised to lose big.
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November 24, 2013, 12:05:06 AM
 #6765

why you refer to price of gold as in oz? it might as well be in grams, kilos, tons. the price per weight value is irrelevant here. gold will always have value no matter how much 1btc is in relation to 1 oz.

And Bitcoin may as well be mBTC
you are correct but even metric nations publish the price per 1oz. Having known gold for its colour all my life and never thinking people actually bought it, 1oz is the universal unit when the price is mentioned, so yes this will be huge news.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
oakpacific
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November 24, 2013, 02:40:17 AM
 #6766

It just occurs to me that divisibility is one of Bitcoin's great features as a investment, you can't normally buy fractional share on the stock market, or a fraction of an ounce of gold/silver, so when a bubble is forming small time investors have to avoid buying as they risk losing dearly in a market crash, but even when BTC price reaches $10000/BTC you can still buy 0.001 BTC and take advantage of the potential rally continuation, as the most you can lose is only $10, this would potentially make Bitcoin the first product to be investable, and investable rationally by everyone, even really deprived people.


Yes, the accessibility of Bitcoin is very important to its success. A few years ago I toyed with the idea of dividend-yielding investments and a few other things, but with the amount of money I was looking to invest (beans) the fees just wouldn't make it worth it. With bitcoin, it was much easier for me to start out investing teeny tiny amounts of money every week. Then, my tiny investment turned into gigantic amounts of money. Of course, later adopters won't see such a massive ROI, but they can still participate in its appreciation until it reaches a more stable adoption level, and after that, they can participate in sound money which is good for everyone. The barrier to entry is a powerful force as we see in socialist .gov-controlled markets i.e. here in the U.S.
The barrier to entry of bitcoin still involves at least a mobile device and internet, but it is much smaller than many markets currently in existence.

And the snowball will get bigger and bigger, until no one in the world is left uninvested, then people will make a shocking discovery......"I have this, everyone has this, why don't we use it as a currency?"

That's the plan. Wink

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
Melbustus
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November 24, 2013, 04:25:02 AM
 #6767


And the snowball will get bigger and bigger, until no one in the world is left uninvested, then people will make a shocking discovery......"I have this, everyone has this, why don't we use it as a currency?"

That's the plan. Wink


Precisely. Bitcoin as a speculative asset is the ultimate currency trojan-horse. :-)

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
smoothie
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November 24, 2013, 06:32:41 AM
 #6768

Next milestone: Gold/BTC parity.  Grin

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Zangelbert Bingledack
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November 24, 2013, 11:18:42 AM
 #6769


And the snowball will get bigger and bigger, until no one in the world is left uninvested, then people will make a shocking discovery......"I have this, everyone has this, why don't we use it as a currency?"

That's the plan. Wink

Precisely. Bitcoin as a speculative asset is the ultimate currency trojan-horse. :-)

Indeed. Too bad so many (the majority right now) don't get this.
oakpacific
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November 25, 2013, 09:57:00 AM
 #6770

So it's Monday and we are back with the joy of following after Mr.Gold for a scuba dive. Wink

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
cypherdoc
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November 25, 2013, 11:22:44 AM
 #6771

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.
cypherdoc
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November 25, 2013, 05:21:05 PM
 #6772

a new milestone.  3 yr daily chart.  plumbing new lows:

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November 25, 2013, 05:33:26 PM
 #6773

a new milestone.  3 yr daily chart.  plumbing new lows:




I'd prefer to meet Parity from the other side, but I suppose this works too.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
justusranvier
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November 26, 2013, 04:51:55 AM
 #6774

cypherdoc
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November 26, 2013, 04:56:21 AM
 #6775

Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP.
manfred
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November 26, 2013, 08:43:55 AM
 #6776

Converted some gold to litecoins last week. Should have brought more lites by the look of things. 
Erdogan
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November 26, 2013, 10:13:51 AM
 #6777


The mystery here is why is not gold going up, at least moderately?
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November 26, 2013, 12:45:25 PM
 #6778


The mystery here is why is not gold going up, at least moderately?

Gold is heavily manipulated.  Primarily this is done by sovereign wealth funds and central banks.
Saudi and USSR used to be the big movers.
Of late it has been the US federal reserve dropping the price over the last year or so, ever since a handful of nations asked to repatriate their gold.
So... since the price is set by the ETFs these days, the bullion banks can sell naked short the ETF as much as they like, backed by the Fed.  They can take many billions in slippage losses in the fiat currency to drive it down.  
Once they have the physical at the new lower price, they can buy and ship.  They asked the foreign nations (Deutshland primarily) to wait seven years for delivery (even though the gold would have fit on a few jumbo jets and logistically could have been arranged in a matter of weeks).

The gold price is primarily not set by the market in which we participate, and hasn't been for a long time.

Perversely as dollar risk rises, some folks will move to gold from bonds as interest rates climb so the gold bears will get some help there too.
When it gets cheap enough, they will load up their truck with the stuff.

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cypherdoc
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November 26, 2013, 03:31:36 PM
 #6779


The mystery here is why is not gold going up, at least moderately?

Gold is heavily manipulated.  Primarily this is done by sovereign wealth funds and central banks.
Saudi and USSR used to be the big movers.
Of late it has been the US federal reserve dropping the price over the last year or so, ever since a handful of nations asked to repatriate their gold.
So... since the price is set by the ETFs these days, the bullion banks can sell naked short the ETF as much as they like, backed by the Fed.  They can take many billions in slippage losses in the fiat currency to drive it down.  
Once they have the physical at the new lower price, they can buy and ship.  They asked the foreign nations (Deutshland primarily) to wait seven years for delivery (even though the gold would have fit on a few jumbo jets and logistically could have been arranged in a matter of weeks).

The gold price is primarily not set by the market in which we participate, and hasn't been for a long time.

Perversely as dollar risk rises, some folks will move to gold from bonds as interest rates climb so the gold bears will get some help there too.
When it gets cheap enough, they will load up their truck with the stuff.

so explain to all of us why they let gold rise from 250 to 1921 from 2000 to 2011.

don't say they manipulated it up as that wouldn't explain why Gordon Brown sold the UK's gold reserves at the bottom of 2000.
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November 26, 2013, 03:52:20 PM
 #6780

so explain to all of us why they let gold rise from $250 to $1921 from 2000 to 2011.

don't say they manipulated it up as that wouldn't explain why Gordon Brown sold the UK's gold reserves at the bottom of 2000.

They thought that because of their successful manipulation, gold was cheap in 2000, so they would like to buy some from UK and other signatories. It was not needed to actively manipulate it up, it would rise quite naturally after so long suppression.

Gold's market cap had become minuscule compared to their derivative machinations so buying up more and more gold was not a sacrifice for them.

In 2000 they thought that gold would be useful.

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